dare i say

The HP war begins… (Chrysler and GM late to the game once again. It’s the 60s all over again.)

“Chrysler and GM late to the game once again”
I would say the HP wars started in ‘92 with the Viper and its V-10.

It then went to the sedan HP race with the LX vehicles.

The ‘Stang and F bodies battled throughout the 90’s.

DCX is upping the numbers with a 6.6, but I wouldn’t say ‘late to the game’

My Cobalt could kill any Hemi.

Pony Cars, Mike, “Pony Cars” ie Mustang, already here – see 1964/2005. Hence Camaro/Challenger late to the game once again. History is repeating itself. And I’ll bet my pay check in the end the Mustang will still be here, the Camaro/Challenger, well you know…

@ WeezyFBaby
mustang is all ford has
by the way the new one sucks styling wise

Depending on the size of your check, I’ll take that bet

you didn’t mention pony cars in your statement, I stand corrected on that point. BUT the HP wars for pony cars never ended. look at the 305 to the 350 vs the 5.0. this ante was upped in 93 with the re-release of the f-bodies and upped with the ws6 and ss option packages. DCX is re-entering the segment (sort of, it can be argued that the challenger will not directly compete) and upping the ante as well.

#5. Yeah right… in your dreams.

GMrules-My Neon could kick you Cobalts Ass.

GMrules strikes again-*-
my lawn mower wil kill your Cobalt

Dan, that’s opinion based and irrelevant. Also, I don’t think Ford had a problem selling them with their “horrible” styling. Did they? I could be wrong…

For those that are clueless. 6.6L is 400cuin.

The Camaro is going to wipe the floor with this POS. As Bob Lutz said, GM has some tricks up their sleeves that will annihilate this thing. And be a hella lot more reliable than some Chrysler junk. The Mustang is going to die as well because nobody is going to want that sorry excuse for a Pony car

My Roomba could kill your Cobalt.

just buy a german car and show everyone how cars are supposed to be made: handling AND power

GMrules strikes again-*-
my lawn mower wil eat your Cobalt

my fat ass persian cat could kick your piece of **** cobalt!

**** sry, it didnt come up so i ddint know i posted it already

modern big block, sweet! IN YOUR FACE MUSTANG!!!

“BUT the HP wars for pony cars never ended.” Mike, what are you talking about, the whole pony car war ended. If my memory serves me correctly, there is only one currently being produced…

of course an intelligent thread about an engine that is as-of-yet unheard of in the rumer mill in a vehicle that has an amazing ammount of publick interest that is recently greenlighted and has corporate execs saying that the general public will not be able to tell the difference between the concept and prodiction (with other rumors that the ‘concept’ was actually a prototype, not a concept)

and the tread deteriorates into ‘my dad can beat up your dad’ and ‘america is junk!’

can this thread be salvaged?

its not a thread, its a comment board

The ’stang’s main competition the last few years has been the Monaro/GTO. The stang has the ‘07 model year to itself, granted, but the segment is still buzzing with affordable power.

a 6.6L hemi would make about 500 hp…isnt this stepping on the vipers toes?

Wouldn’t y’all rather have a superior GM car? Sheesh

i think the Challenger and the Camaro will have the same relationship as the Viper and Vette. The Dodge will be the more exotic of the two and probably cost more. while you will see the chevy at every intersection. personly if we are talking about a ~$35,000 300hp car i would be looking towards the upcoming Evo X or VW R32.

My Micro-Machines(tm) collection would kill your Cobalt

Reply to 25

I believe the current 8.3 (505 c.i.) V-10 Viper/Truck motor is going to be phased out over the next few years. I seem to remember reading an article that it will no longer meet new emissions code, so the DCX boys are working on something even more powerful. My guess is they import a Mercedes V-12 for the next generation Viper.

gmrules a 2007 camry could kill ur cobalt

Ryan: ‘08 moel year Viper is getting an ~650hp 8.4l v-10 built by McLaren.

the amaricans are so far behind with technology. why do you need more than 6 liter for 425 hp?? these cars will be so heavy you won’t be able to drive them over bridges because they would collapse.

Ryan H. – I have heard a rumor it will be a McLaren Tuned V10. It makes sense with the MB – McLaren F1 relationship. Speaking of MB v12…i just was next to a SL65 AMG V12 Bi-Turbo. What a snoozer! i see SLs all the time and the only reason i new this one was special was because it said “V12 Biturbo” on the side. It’s a good looking car, but with that much power I want to see something amazing. When he pulled away it didnt even sound nice. MB really needs to get serious about there sports cars. to me MB says, “ill meet you at the golf course once my retirement party is over”

Thanks Mike and ss for clearing that up. I’d read the article some time ago and had since forgotten the specifics. Thanks for the information correction!

at #32
You need to push the merc to make the nice sound. merc’s are bould for comfort so no noise at low rpm’s.
did you hear the SLR in full acceleration? it’s an amazing sound

he got on it pretty good. a little tire squeal. and you can here hints of a supercar coming out of the exhaust…but nothing that will turn heads…kinda of like the whole cars itself. i guess its the sleeper supercar??? idk i think for 180,000 i want EVERYONE to know that my car is something special. I drive a Scion xB RS3, its BRIGHT green. and the guy in the car behind the Benz was looking at my car and not the Benz…im sure MB could do something more then some larger wheels and a badge.

Why the hell would you want an Scion xB?

Are they kidding? Is this 1969? Who needs these stupid looking retro, too heavy muscle cars? Come on US automakers get your heads out of the past and your asses and try dsesigning something NEW for a change…

I think the market for these are people over 60 or under 18…

10 – 12 you’re so out of touch. I hope you don’t work marketing…

“Why the hell would you want an Scion xB?”

-because i get more looks then a Mercedes Sl65 AMG, and prob 3times the gas milage.

i cant wait to see the hp on this beast!!!

bravo.. a 6.6 liter hemi… however it will hopefully be all aluminum block and heads etc. as they didn’t call the old hemis elephants for nothing as they weighed more than a house. and yes there is a LOT more HP in the new chevy Z06 427 motor so the 500hp i am sure is ONLY the start. i am also sure that the viper will answer with something in the 650 or 700hp range and on and on.. Its WONDERFULL I think its been to boring for to long out there in performance land. and the import motors can build a lot of horse power if you through TONS of money at them but they still sound like sewing machine motors so whats the point ?

I heard it was bigger than 6.6, actually.

it would be nice to see something else out there besides the “Mustang” , but it doesn’t matter how much MORE power the others have, and it never did …. the Mustang always outsells them all …..

“Mustang always outsells them all”

you ARE aware that the Challenger is rumored to have production numbers of around 30k per year… and is intended to be drastically more limited in production than the ’stang…right?

even if they made more challengers stangs would out sell them not because its a better car but because stangs are always the cheapest

Mustangs and Camaro are like assholes. Everyone has one. Junk is what they are

its funny that the GM and Chrysler are opting for bigger cubic inch engines with the price of gas !!! while Ford is still getting great horsepower from a small displacement engine that will obviously have better fuel economy ……

actaully ford is just to cheap to retool that pile of **** 4.6 into a real motor that can compete with the new GM and Chrysler motors. yes they are out selling the others because they are REALLY that cheap and will stick with the tired engine design until it grows hair an teeth and rots to death..

Man this is sweet! I just hope the manufactures don’t get carried away with the pricing. I really dig this muscle car rebirth.

What’s up with No. 32? What technologies do the domestic cars lack that the “others” have? Keep it real too. Apples to Apples.

Why can’t anyone understand that OHV develops more torque which we like over here in the states. If we want to wind our motors up to 10000RPM then yes we will by your cammer but WE DO NOT WANT IT. We also don’t want little tiny wing clad POS cars. We want a cool laid back cruiser that burbles down the street not sounding like a Yugo with a bad exhaust (Subaru). BTW Do you really think the people who buy these cars give a crap about MPG? They will spend more money on rear tires than gas.

ALSO. Hell the general gets 30MPG out 400HP V8 who has superior technology now? We don’t need turbos, we don’t need nitros, anemic cams, not even a supercharger. WHATS YOUR EXCUSE?

high insurance rates, high gas prices, anyone remember what happened to big muscle cars like the hemi-cuda, challenger, and boss mustang in the early seventies. History may repeat itself.

No. 53. That was before insurance companies really knew what was happening. Shoot now-a-days if your car/truck simply has a V8 your rates are immediately higher. It doesn’t matter if it’s not a high output engine either. Some V6s out there produce more horsepower too and don’t have the high rates. My point is the insurance companies won’t have an adverse affect on these types of cars. You just know that you are going to pay out of your @ss for insurance if you buy one.

Now if they want to keep the tree huggers quite they should offer the flexible fuel versions as well. It won’t hamper the horsepower either as GMs formula D Solstice produces 500 or so horses.

My kid on a tricycle could beat your Roomba!

i disagree with that 4.6 comment / that motor flies, its just small … my budy has a 2003 Mach1 , with an aftermarket exhaust that runs high12’s in the 1/4 .. and gets over 20mpg

JUST BRING IT!

#25:
6.6 a.k.a. 400CID would make 550hp at least, the 6.4L 392CID was on Dyno test and it made 508hp..
I can’t wait to see a modern 426..

the only problem with HEMI enginges is the high CR which makes it difficult to add a supercharger or turbo set

#26:
the prices are gonna range between 19k-26K depend on the options (check http://www.challengertalk.com)

these prices are maybe just for the 5.7 and 6.1 models and I expect the SRT-8 is gonna be around 35 grand

Hey… why u dissin my environmentally friendly Roomba?

This car is going to kick

#37: because some people will adore anything Asian. How pathetic,

It needs a Viper engine.

Nothing wrong with Asian rides… But they have nothing that can go up against this new Challenger. Maybe the GTR, but that’s more sports coupe than muscle.

650hp 8.4L McLaren V-10 for the viper!!!!!!? REALLY?! SWEET!!! how did you find this out?

“how did you find this out?”

various sources.

Git meone already….Where is f!@#$%^&* Salesmen’s phone call!!!

WEhat are you OHC lovers going to do when GM makes the OHC look obsolete? When GM finally realese the 2 cam in block engine with 2,3 or 4 vlaves? I mean are you going to hate ! It will be multi cam and multi valve? So what will you say then?

This motor will have better VVT than OHC. It will have DOD(AFM). Then when GM realeses the Eaton electronic Varialbe Ration roclkers arms? Do you know what that will mean? WIth 3 rations GM will be able to run a “Real Cam”. It will idle like a stocler but have the power of a decent aftermarket cam. Not to mention the fact that when they release the electronic varialbe ration lifeters as well. Check the flow rates on LS 7 heads and tell me that is not TECHNOLOGY.

It will be: 2 cams, 4 vales(maybe), VVT, DOD, VV rocker arms, VV lifters. all the while it will be Smaller, Weigh less, Cost less to BOTH manufacture and fix in the aftermarket and get great gas milage. TECHNOLOGY, yes.

Have you ever checked the gas miles of the LS series of motors? They are great. I mean the 400HP Corvette get 2MPG LESS than the 240 Accord? Did you say Technology?

I am just curious of how you Ricer’s will argue with that!

There is (unfortunately) no way this car will start for less than $20k. I would guess $25k and up.

I know I won’t make many friends saying this but, this could be a good way to introduce a DIESEL performance vehicle to the US. Just think of all that torque.

“I just had the most wonderful dream where a domestic car maker was the first to market with an innovative product instead of playing catch-up to the imports”

The 8.4L Viper news was first revealed on Allpar.com back in October. This was the very FIRST source anywhere to break this info, as well as other info on the 2008 Viper.

Who the hell cares. It will weigh over 4000Lbs. I think its great that the horsepower wars are on, but remember these cars are still going to have to TURN at some point. Do me a favor, keep the power and bring the pork down a little. PLEASE!!!!!

I would be all over this car if it weighed like, say under 3300 pounds. Look, the Corvette Z06 can do it, why can’t anyone else? (I think the Corvette actually weighs around 3000 pounds.)

Correction: The Z06 weighs 3130 lb.

#72

…because the Corvette is an exotic: made with very lightweight materials and combining great power with great handling on a racetrack.
A Challenger, like a Mustang, like a Camaro, is a MUSCLE CAR: looks great, lots of power, not really suited to be a curve carver.
And yes, they could make a Challenger that weighs much less, but then who is it going to contain the costs that more refined materials require ?
A muscle car like a Challenger at 25-35k can be a viable option for DCX, meaning they could sell some, a Challenger that costs 50 or 60 or 70k would NOT be a viable solution for DCX…

#70: Your thinking is too visionary. Would be interesting but it’ll probably never happen.

I can assure you that there will be V6s.

Seeing how many mustangs are sold with V6s.

Who’d like to be seen driving this car? Reply with age, race, and the state where you reside.

You can say what you want, but I have NOT as yet seen any Camaros,Mustangs,or any other Ford or GM crap sell for 6 and even 7 figures at any of the big auctions!
Put that in your pipe and SMOKE it!

MY SRT4 will kill your Cobalt #4

MOMS is the word for the next two super Hemis.

[...] La novità interessante è che sarebbe allo studio per la Challenger un V8 HEMI da 6,6 litri, che potrebbe avvicinarsi ai 500 cavalli … PUBBLICITÀ PUBBLICITÀ postato da Luca il domenica 30 luglio 2006 in: [...]

I currently drive an 11 second Eclipse. The Challenger isthe FIRST american car I’ve lusted after ever, and the first one I’ve really wanted since the Eclipse. I love the look, love the RWD power…If the production car does indeed look like the show car? Bye bye 500HP eclipse, HELLO hemi…oh, and I’m 40, so I mised the first muscle car era by just a bit.

well, some of you are whining about gas mileage on the new challenger, can you say MDS? dodges fuel saving system which lets it run on only 4 cylinders while cruising and instantly turns on all 8 when you put it to the floor. also, what i want to see the challenger are as follows:

Base: 3.5L auto at 250 HP around 20K
SE: 5.7L auto at 350 HP around 25K
T/A: 6.1L with auto and 6 speed manual at 425 HP around 30-35K
R/T: 6.6L with 6 speed manual at 550 HP around 40K

im not fond of the SRT name, i want this car to stay true to its roots in all ways possible while modernizing the technology. the challenger needs vintage badges like T/A and R/T not srt or srt8.

whoever said ford is getting great horsepower from the 4.6 is on crack… i saw a supercharged 06 gt with a 4.6 getting only 385 HP!!! the the 6.1 could probably get 480-500 supercharged. they wanted over 60K for the mods they put on that POS. and dodge will also get the mileage if they’re smart enough to put their MDS on the 6.1 and 6.6.

the engine supppose to be 6.9 as the 426 hemi in the Challenger

Guys, instead of being typical jackassas, let’s get something strait. It’s GREAT news that muscle cars are back no matter if you are a Mustang, Challenger or Camero guy. We NEVER thought we would see the pony-muscle war again and her it is, the “New Golden Age”. They each bring something special to the game… The Mustang was the first and only serviving pony car… The Camero was and will be cheap and availble for every one that wants one. The Challenger will again be rarest to have and should hold it’s collectibility ($$$) better than the other two. A 70 hemi Challenger Convertible is much more valuable than a Convertible KR 500 Shelby Mustang or a RS/SS Convertible Camero.
Just like it was back then the car that has the best gearing, tune up and traction will be the quickest in the quarter mile… Guys, GM, Ford and Chrysler all made some fantastic cars as well as junk and the “favorate” car make is akin to chosing a favorate sports team. We do it for a variety of reasons and if the car make treats us well, we stick with them. My dad was a Ford truck, GM car guy. My first car was a Challenger and I raced it for years and the ONLY things that ever failed were U-joints and $5 voltage regulators hence I became a “mopar guy”. The fact that my 70 383 R/T Challenger Convertible is worth 20 times more than the $3,500 I paid for it has also helped.
In short, ENJOY this exciting time in US automotive history, and if the gas/oil thing happens to us like it didn in the early 70’s these cars won’t be built for long and the will be worth holding onto.
As for the ignorant guys that love their imports, I have nothing negitive to say about their engineering as it’s all well and good though short on torgue and from stoplight to stoplight, TORQUE IS KING! Also, it would appear that “import lovers” either no nothing about Macro Economics (take a college course), or could care less about the good old USA. If they did, they would understand that with a record trade deficit that increases every year we are at risk of losing our foreign investors for our “stable US companies”. And if they ever pull out (and they will if we can’t pay our debtors at some point), then we will all be in soup lines. So if you are so narcisistic (that means self centered bastards that could care less about anything but their own selfish desires), to buy import cars, then I hope you are bright and or good enough to be buying everything else posible that is US made. So do us all a favor while driving your “status bmw” or sh*tbox scion or “wannabe gang/ghetto honda BOYS”, and make sure you buy US made clothes, stereos, furniture, etc… Otherwise you are either ignorant or don’t give a sh*t about America. And to that I say, GTFOUT!
Mr RPM

Also, I just put down $500.00 and am number 4 on the list at the dealership for an SRT8 Challenger. So long as it’s the top dog, I don’t care if it’s black, Hemi orange, TorRed, Silver, Detonator yellow, Sublime, or Plum Crazy. The service manager said he heard they are 14 months out and that the SRT8 will be in Spring of 08?
Time will tell????

To the guy with the Cobalt.
My wife has a new SS Cobalt and its a slow pos.
My garden tractor could beat it.
Just waite till you have all the problems with the wireing harness,radio,ac,brakes etc.
hers has been in the shop 13 times.

the hemis have so much potential for power. Just putting in a different cam and some headers will give the 5.7 liter about 480 hp. It’s not about high-revving, fine tuned motors, it’s about feeling the raw power. I’m a nineteen year old living in New York and I’ve ridden around in an old ‘70 hemi challenger and it was awesome!

ps. the 480 hp comes from a test done in HOTROD mag.

#88-

#72-actually, if you know anything about the original Trans Am series, mustangs chargers/challengers and camaros were pitted against eachother and also Porsches, and then the manufacturers started making the cars to win in the series, so yes they are meant to turn. AND early camaros ie. ‘69 do handle pretty good.

#74- I understand wut ur saying about there being a V6, but I also believe the guy who said they aren’t since you can not forget about the Chargers which have a V6 model.

And to Mr. RPM, bravo to your comment i agree with just about everything, except the last part. You may put me in the stereotype of ‘not caring for my country’ since my family tends to buy japanese cars, although my brother has an ‘87 trans am, and my dad has owned a ‘73 before as well. but i dont care about that, I just wanted to say **** YOU, in the most humorable way possible to not hurt your feelings, since my very first car is a 2008 Scion Xb and I kicked a V6 Mustang’s ass!

#3 My 650HP Ram 3500 with a Cummins will smoke your Cobalt, literaly. Don’t you guys know that the new muscle cars are diesel trucks now days. Geez, get with the times.

P.S. What’s a cobalt?