Go back and read as many times as necessary my point that this bankruptcy was a given long ago, which implicitly acknowledges GM management’s failure and which I reacknowledged yesterday at 11:07pm.

Now, put your little thinking cap on and understand that it was the financial crisis that triggered this bankruptcy and forced undue suffering on ALL automakers, including Toyota, the builder of the most aesthetically undesirable vehicles.

These are FACTS. You are out of your league. Teach origami next time … you’ll have something on me in that subject. Booooooooooyaaaaaaaaaa.

Ford has a crappy line-up, but at least they had brains enough to get a bunch of credit lines 2 years ago

Considering the garbage that GM was putting out for 30 years, and how little they were investing, they should have more money on hand than Toyota for when gas prices go up, or a recession hits.

The only reason Toyota is losing money now is because the recession caught them when they are on a major worldwide expansion, and they are over-extended due to trying to satisfy demand for their brand

GM is broke because they NEVER saved for a rainy day, never had a balanced, efficient line-up until Toyota showed them how, and are throwing money into their lineup to try to catch up

Problem is no one respects their brand. Their brand image is crap, This generation sees them as an average car maker, at best, and would prefer a Honda or Toyota

GM has killed itself through slough, poor investments/contract negotiations, and lack of leadership. It’s been a long time comin. The recession is just a convenient excuse, but it only accelerated the inevitable.

Lesson over
DrFill

As far as how many Neons are left on the road… I don’t know. I think the style/image of the car has alot to do with that question as well. How many 1985 Hondas do you see on the road today compared with 1985 Caprices? If you told me you see more 1985 Hondas then you’d be lying through your teeth.

However, I do agree with you about Toyotas being boring. I think Japanese cars in general are ugly, whiny, and just plain weird-looking. That is one reason why I choose American cars. Not just because of looks or performance, but also because of my long-term experience with them.

Buy American. It’s not just a matter of jobs, it’s a matter of national security as well.

Oh my, you quoted allpar, a pro Chrysler web site, who at least bothered to mention that Chrysler as a whole had 196 “issues” due to Jeep being one of the worst.

And btw, Chrysler’s minivans always won awards for their clever thinking into how they made their minivans. It means very little when they start to break down in the middle of nowhere.

Oh, at least they have a warranty. I’m sure they are regretting that they did with how much money it is costing them.

Hey, Dodge has more HP in their truck, but get this, they have for the past 14 years and had a better I6 diesel and still people prefer Ford over them.

Bottom line: In general, GM and Chrysler suck, Toyota’s are boring and people like you who prefer form over function, suck.

Did Ford not have a serious problem until recently and in no way out of the woods? Hmmmm, so much for your GM-specific argument. Does Chrysler not a have a serious problem? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Does every manufacturer not now have a problem?

Let me guess … none of these now similar problems stem from the same root cause?

Nobody, including myself, believes GM’s monkeys in charge aren’t to blame in some way but that is manageable … much unlike the magnitude of the banking and credit crisis. Get it?

The Dodge Caravan was best-rated minivan, beating the Ford Freestar and Toyota Sienna.

-http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/tag/caravan/

The all-new 2009 Dodge Ram 1500 was named “Best Pickup Truck,” and the 2009 Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan were named “Best Minivan” in MotorWeek’s annual Drivers’ Choice Awards.

-http://blogs.automotive.com/6470559/opinion/2009-dodge-ram-1500-chrysler-minivans-receive-best-awards/index.html

However, I am hung up on my dad’s 1996 Dodge Caravan needing a new transmission at 30k miles, needing the head gaskets replaced at 60, a new evaporator for the a/c at around the same time, needing the belt tensioner gear replaced 4 times, neglecting to put head rests in the back seats to save costs on what is considered a safety feature.

And, just how many Neons do you see on the road? It is rare, but if I do see one, I pity the fool who keeps it going. It was quite wonderful seeing the windshield adhesive on Neons melt in 2 years under Florida heat, while every other vehicle never had that problem.

What? The Challenger? Another car wanting to cash in on Ford’s retro Mustang? Sorry, looks ugly as sin. Can’t they actually make not look like the Avenger and their clones? Oh, how bad must it be to even bring back the Avenger nameplate? At least Chevy got their Camaro right. Oh wait, it’s just another car built on a Holden platform, good going there. And who makes the mailbu? Here is a hint: GM didn’t engineer the current gen this time.

2010 LaCrosse? Maybe at least Tiger Woods will drive one instead of just endorsing it!

Chevy only cared about their truck and the Corvette for the past 15 years, and just now the CTS-V which shares a lot in common. Too little, too late for them.

Fiat has got to be the stupidest company for trying to keep Chrysler around. All Chrysler engineers do all day is “How can we save a few pennies here?” instead of, “How can we make a car that lasts 70k miles without needing $4k in repairs”.

Oh, and BMW/Audi/MB isn’t any better. Sure they make sporty cars, but all of them have average to below average reliability.

Get your facts straight, Ford hasn’t taken a single continuation loan.

However, I do especially agree about the tax situation for small businesses, and Obama plans on just making it worse.

What will we do without the failed GM minivan’s, the Aztek, the Cobalt, the Aveo, the Neon, and Chryler’s minivans and crappy Grand Cherokee? What will happen when we no longer have to look at 3-5 different grilles of the same car? What will the 65+ people drive without Cadillac and Buick?

We need these cars for the majority of people who do not know better. And if Toyota went as well, who would supply our boring Camry’s or Corolla’s? What will happen without the wannabe Tundras? Who will make the college kid’s Scions ipod playing cars anymore?

This is what happens when crooked bankers are allowed to run wild, without REGULATION.

Things will continue to get worse … don’t let this temporary lull confuse you. Years, not months, worse.

IF this surgical bankruptcy is successful (I have my doubts that even the govt can make this happen), then GM will be at a huge advantage and have no excuses for not being competitive with their products and business models once the economy recovers. However, the cost will be that retirees, dealers and suppliers will all be screwed. This will then trickle down to further negative economic impacts (layoffs from reduced spending), then the govt will have to pick up some of the bill to these folks.