So what does everyone consider Tier 1? Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus? With Tier 2 being Acura, Volvo, Cadillac, and Infiniti? Not sure where Audi fits in (1 or 2), and am sure Lincoln is just not there yet.

Acura had only 2 suits since its inception in US. The first brought us Legend, Integra, NSX. The second killed Integra, Legend and NSX and introduced us to alphabet soup. My point is that Acura does not need to compete with BMW and M-B nor does it need those long term plans and announcements: they need a third suit who will know market and cars; and will be able to produce cars people want to drive and buy. It would be nice for Acura 2009 to beat Acura 2008 and move on.

Right…

They can barely make a decent Honda competitor, so I don’t see this happening anytime soon, especially with V6’s and FWD. They need RWD, a V8, and some styling. By the time that all happens, there will be no gas left…

It’s possible, but Acura won’t have a Tier 1 lineup until 2013 at the earliest. The current productions are just filler unfortunately until the NSX successor and RL are released, which is disturbing considering corporate would rather take the “it’s gotta get worse before it gets better” approach. They should be ashamed of themselves for settling and selling products they KNOW aren’t as good as they should be (not could, but SHOULD). Soichiro must be rolling in his grave.

Xyunga…. you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Technically, the name series for been around since 1991, the NSX. The RL and TL came in 1995. Get over the name change cause they’re not going back.

Acura needs to compete with BMW & Mercedes. Who do you think they need to compete with…. Buick? Well, guess what GM trys to compare Buick to? Lexus. Guess who Lexus competes with…. BMW and Mercedes.

Also as far as the names being dropped you left off the Vigor which is the TL.

otherwise, shut up

First they want to compete with Maybach and Bentley, now they want to be rival to BMW and Benz. What about Lexus? I think for right now they should to come up something to suprass Lexus first before other Luxury brand. Watch out for the new LFA, I can’t wait to see it to smoke the new NSX and GTR.

If the current gen TL was RWD, it would have been a serious 3 series competitor.

anti-believe, thank you for your well mannered comments. I suspect you sell Acuras, because your demeanor is identical to Ford and GM salesmen when I critique “their” brand. I wish you well in your avocation, but Acura sales are nothing to right home about. As an Acura and Honda owner from many years, I find Acura’s brand going nowhere rather fast. My point simply is that Acura need to compete with itself successfully: sell more cars each year then previous. The rest will follow.

Xyunga… not a salesman, but a owner of Acuras and Hondas for 16 years.

I never said Acura sales were great! Learn how to read.

You really did not get what I was saying what so ever. There are only two different markets in auto…. economical and expensive. Acura, Buick, Lexus, Volvo, MB, etc. are expensive (they all compete with each other in price and offerings).

Acura is only going to compete with those not Chevy, Honda, etc.

Why do you think they killed off the RSX? So it doesn’t compete with the Civic in price. DUH!

You probably haven’t notice but the TSX debuted it started off at a price of 26K which rivaled the Accord. Now it’s starts off at 29K which only fights aganist the very top end of the Accord.

The discussion is about Acura trying to become “more” competive to BMW & MB.

yeah only in their wildest dreams

anti-believer, any competition (in any industry ) means selling more then competition and ripping higher profits - the only reason to exists. Once article mentions competing with uber-brands, it triggered associations with both. My point is simple: Acura is in a deep funk. Instead of worthless speculation of what will come in distant future, brand needs to figure out why it does NOT sell much today, fix it and sell more. It will “compete” with its own high optioned/priced Hondas just like Lexus competes with Toyotas. Lexus sells as well as Infinity, I see no Acuras on the road. They are becoming increasingly extinct.

Anti-believer, there’s no need for rudeness. If you can’t conduct a civil and respectful conversation here, get out, you idiot.*

*Irony.

I think there is actually more opportunity for Acura as a Tier 2 competitor, taking sales away from Cadillac and Volvo and Infiniti, than as a Tier 2 wanna-be. I have a very hard time seeing Acura as an apples-to-apples alternative to Mercedes-Benz or even Lexus.

Acura obviously has major problems, their cars do not provide an “inspirational” driving experience. They are bland and boring. This is something that all Japanese cars are fighting when comparing them to European cars. Nissan/Infiniti are IMO getting the closest, but even so, they still have something left to be desired. Driving an Acura, despite a nicer cabin, is the same as driving an Accord…boring. Even the Acura TL Type S is boring. Sure it is pretty quick on a straight away, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. Lexus has been agressively going after MB and BMW for years. While I can say the interior is finally catching up, the driving experience is still boring overall, and please don’t bring up the IS-F as I’m sure 80% of driving enthusiasts would rather have an M3 anyday.

Good luck Acura on your new found wisdom, hate to say it, but it will take a lot more then a few additional models to make the brand competitive against the Germans. Perhaps a total makeover and reenginerring is an order?

Tom go **** yourself cause I haven’t been rude. YA DICK!

pursuse bentley and maybach? but first go after mbz and bmw? i am sure those manufacturers arent worried. puh-lease.

Xyunga.. if Acura is such a deep funk why is the MDX (a SUV) there #1 selling product? The TL which is in it’s 4th year is only a thousand in sales behind the MDX.

Acura out sells Infiniti and has always!

So does this mean we are finally going to get a TSX coupe? The sedan is nice but it’s nothing like the RSX.

Anti-Believer…”Why is the MDX there #1 selling product?” Who cares what Acura’s #1 selling product is amongst their line. What’s your point? Did you know Maybach’s #1 selling product is the Maybach? Did you know a cat is a cat and a dog is a dog? LOL

Because MDX is the only luxury midsize with 3rd row in this price range….If you see GX or QX…they are way over 50K… Acura outsells Infiniti >>> coz there are too many boring ppl who dont appreciate rwd…..lol..and btw drive a rwd u know what ur missing

Yeah - the MDX is selling well - but it’s still ugly on the outside with the “Voltron” grill…..the new TSX is a disapointment even though it has a nice interior etc etc ..
And the RL is so small - what are they thinking trying to sell a 50k sedan that has no room in the back ?? No excuses ….

I truly miss the days with the Legend coupe and sedan along
with the 2nd generation Integra with the legendary NSX.

As a huge NSX fan / driver, Acura has lost it’s way over the years …hopefully they get some of that magic back - and soon ….I am crossing my fingers the new NSX is worthy after waiting all this time ….mid engined or not.

Acura sucks & can’t rival Mercedes or BMW. LLKn is ythrowinfg its pown cred away by dsayong stuff like that & refering 2 it as “Honda’s Acura luxury brand.”

The NSX almoust sdoes not suck.

Acura in tye the premium coupe segment? not gonna happen. the CL was trash. $50,000 4 a honda?

at least Honda executives no Acura’s lis not a “tier 1 luxury brand.”
sales R down bcuz Acura sucks

Tier 1 is Bently Mayboch Rolls
tie2r s Mercedes, BMW, Audi & Cadillac.
Tier 2j (4 japanese knockpoffs) Lexus Infiniti & Acura, but Infiniti us good w/ that “luxury-per4mance” thing they R doing.

tier 2ea Lincoln Buick Saab & Volvo

They need RWD & a V8; Acura won’t ever have a Tier 1 lineup until 6they do that.

Lexus does nbot compete w/ BMW and Mercedes. The opnluy japanese company hat competes with bMW is Infiniti

the Vigor sucked.

I think for right now they should to come up something to suprass Lexus; that should B EZ.

If the current gen TL was RWD, it mite have been a 3-series competitor. That wood give it some luxury-per4mance cred.

Chevys R better thab Acuras

Acura is in a deep funk. I

Acura can take sales from Volvo, but niot Cadillac or Infiniti. people who buyy those don’t want dull cars

I have a very hard time seeing Acura as an apples-to-apples alternative to Mercedes-Benz, but yes Lexus.

Ttheir cars do not provide an “inspirational” driving experience. They are bland & boring. People ythink all Japanese cars R bland & boring, but that’s not tru. Nissan/Infiniti R the ckoset bcuz thay have hat luxury-per4mance.
Driving an Acura is the same as driving an Accord

bentley & maybach mbz & bmw R laffing somewhere

the MDXis theIr #1 selling product becaise something has 2 B.

As a former Acura owner, I think that they started messing up with the 2nd generation Integra. It became heavier and less sporting in nature. It lost a lot of personality. The 3rd generation model was much better, but showed no improvement in overall driving feel.

Acura should have also made a RWD car the size of the old Legend. It would have been a hit.

I think its too late for Acura now.

Acura as a competitor to Bentley, Maybach & Rolls Royce ? ROFLMAO

ktulu…Please do us a favor and never post again, or at least not until you taken proper lessons in English grammer. Your post is just plain painful to read, let alone try to understand.

I would not be quick to dismiss any of this. Honda is a well run, tight ship. If they say they’re going to try this then I believe them. The product is, of course, the “proof-of-the-pudding”, and we will all have to wait to see.
On the other hand, the fact that such a company is losing ground in the more profitable near-luxury market is a mystery to me………………. until I saw the newest line up. WHO ever thought that buck-tooth, Bugs Bunny grille would be good????

Yeah, I’m not sure where Acura is going with this press release either. It all depends on how you define “compete.” If you confine the term to pricepoint, then Acura doesn’t compete with Tier 1, because BMW, Merc, and Audi are significantly more expensive–the TL really is a “competitor” to the 5-series, when you look at passenger volume. But it’s true that if you *want* to spend $45k on a small or mid-size sedan, you’re not looking at Acura.

But, if you confine it to vehicle class, then Acura always has competed with BMW, Merc and Audi, because they’ve offered similar vehilces, with nice to excellent content, and a much lower price. Option out a 328 (let alone a 335) to equal an Acura TL with navi and look at the difference….

But if you look at the portfolio of Merc and BMW vehicles, you’ll see that those guys have a car for everything–small sedans, small coupes, mid-size and large sedans and coupes (although BMW doesn’t have a 7-series-based coupe), etc. Acura would do well to market a TSX coupe, a TL coupe, and a S2000-derived roadster, and in that sense, be more “competitive” with BMW/Merc.

lmfao they have a better chance of spinning chicken sH*t into gold than competing with real luxury in the foreseeable future..

As for the MDX selling well, how does a july that was 35% down YTD equate to selling anywhere near well. Their RDX which has no room, isn’t fast, and is one of the more overpriced vehicles on the market is down over 20% ytd.

These guys get a free passs for posting up numbers which domestics would get lambasted over. The only bright spot is the TSX which is a pseudo wannabe luxury gas sipper which won’t ever be on the same radar screen as a BMW or Mercedes.

**** you all

=========>>swamprat: “As a former Acura owner, I think that they started messing up with the 2nd generation Integra. It became heavier and less sporting in nature. It lost a lot of personality.” WHAT KIND OF CRACK ARE YOU SMOKINNN?? seriously.

Acura as a competitor to Bentley, Maybach & Rolls Royce ..same as Hyundai to Lexus…lol

DeabsterTJ….Thank you for the enlightening comment. You speak with such brilliance.

Until Acura can pull off the Hoffmeister kink, they’ll never be recognized as a true luxury marque.

Togo…. just about all SUV’s are down. DUH!

silly fool there’s a recession Geroge Bush Jr, Jr.!

MYG35…. I’ve driven rear drive. Have u heard of Acura NSX, Honda S2K?

Bland, ugly vehicles with hideous grills and very little distinctive appeal are not going to make a Tier 1 impact.

These guys get a free passs for posting up numbers which domestics would get lambasted over.
When you can show me a domestic car that has the resale or reliability of the MDX then show us The domestic cars are inferior and they deserve to be in the mess that they are in

LLN other websites already have the interior shots of the 2009 TL. Whats the deal ??? Hurry up and post them

The main problem with Acura is that it is overshadowed by Honda. The styling of Acura’s products look like they were inspired by Honda instead of the other way around (which is not a big surprise since the TSX and RL are sold as Honda products in foreign markets). For Acura to truly make a bigger impact, it needs to come up with a styling language that sets it above and apart from Honda.

I think Acura should set challenging Audi as their first goal. This seems more accessible at this point than trying to compete with BMW or Mercedes Benz. Acura’s next gen products need to have distintive/definitive styling, standard SH-AWD (at least on the products that share FWD platforms with Honda products), and standard turbo-charged engines. This would be a vital first step in defining and differentiating Acura from Honda and moving the brand upmarket to better compete with the established luxury marques.

If Acura wants to compete with Lexus, never mind BMW and Mercedes they have to go global. Selling Acuras in America as rebadged Japanese Hondas is not enough. They have to create their own cars. Keep the good relaibility but introduce innovation. Acura can’t compete with European brands when they don’t even offer their products in Europe. They don’t even sell Acura’s in Japan yet. They will this fall, time will tell how the Japanese will react.

LLn: if you want credibility, don’t EVER again refer to “Honda’s A—a luxury brand.”
Call “Honda’s A—a faux-luxury brand,” or “Honda’s A—a brand.”

Honda has as much chance of matching MBZ or BMW as Monica Sweetheart has of leading the NBA in rebounding.

Maybach and Bentley? Now you’re talking about Monica leading in rebounding and Danny deVito leading in scoring! Preposterous!

The NSX sounds good.

MikeFX: Tier 0: Rolls, Bentley, Maybach
Tier 1 Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac
Tier 2 Volvo, Datsun, Saab, Buick, Lincoln
Tier 3: VW, L—s, Chrysler
Tier 4: Ford, Chevrolet, Honda/A–a.
Clear enough?
drchiem: I think the NSX and GT-R (My next car!) will smoke the LFA,
Fletch: If the current gen TL was a luxury car, it might have been a serious 3-series competitor.

Zuke: “yeah, only in their wildest dreams.” Hear, hear!

TomF: “I think there is actually more opportunity for A—a as a Tier 2 competitor, taking sales away from Cadillac and Volvo and Infiniti.” You mean you expect people who own those to trade down?

anti-believer: The Backstreet Boys outsold Pavement. who’s better?

MyG35: “Because MDX is the only luxury….” That’s like saing, “because jessica Simpson is the only quarterback….”

ktulu: get out of my head! But the original JDM NSX was quite the ride.

mazdaman: Still talkin’ sense!