Month-end close is tomorrow.

Wow. And I thought that Ford had been doing pretty o-k in terms financially, which they’ve seriously improved.

I can see GM really promoting the Volt and it’s new mid-size cars in the near future even more intently then their currently diligently at, but I don’t see the same for their small vehicles. The Aveo and Cobalt are still far behind the current offerings by Toyota, Ford, Nissan and Honda. They just don’t have a place to really sell these vehicles as they’d like to, with Chevrolet having so many large vehicles. I really think it’s somewhat awkward for Chevrolet employees to sell small vehicles like the Aveo.

I can see Chrysler really promoting their SUV’s trucks. Once again, I don’t really see a good place for Chrysler to sell small cars, and I don’t see them at work with their small cars. Seeing the Nitro, Liberty, Sebring and Avenger such HUGE disappointments in terms of quality and sales doesn’t quite close the book for me with Chrysler and smaller cars, but I haven’t seen much of anything in the past 10 years that’s really there to agitate the competition. The last generation Liberty, Pacifica, in some respects their “forward positioned” sedans were good, but all of them suffered from the same thing; poor quality. I’m really curious when Chrysler is going to realize this, as Daimler was unable to come to an agreement on the problem, and the problem still remains with Cerberus.

Ford I think is in the best position. Although their small cars were never anything to brag about up until now, they have their act together in Europe and Latin American markets, neither of which Chrysler or GM have. I’m also more familiar with their small cars, and like I said their nothing to brag about, dealers are a bit more familiar with them. The Focus, Edge, Escape, Ranger (despite arguments that it’s old) and Fusion all have their game together. The new Cyclone/Eco-boost really sound like they’ll blow away a lot of the current competition. And the rest of Ford’s department, Volvo and Mazda specifically, seem to really have their game together. I can’t say the same for Lincoln or Mercury because they still remain in about the same shoes they had 10 years ago, although the new MKS sounds really good. We’ll just have to see.

I guess this is right…I just added a civic on the 29th….very good deal.

What a difference a year makes, or more correctly phrased, what a difference the price of fuel makes. Better hurry Detroit; time’s running out. I firmly believe many North Americans are willing to forgive and forget the quality issues of the past decade or two, but the product they’re looking for just cannot be found on a domestic showroom floor.

johnny, what exactly can’t be found in a domestic showroom?

There are hybrids, 4 cylinder family sedans, fuel efficient small cars, larger cars with more power, and on and on. We’ve been over this in other threads that domestic fuel economy is on par with import numbers, and any quality gap is perception only.

What am I missing?

injunraiv, if you read article carefully, you’ll see that you can’t find customers in domestic showroom.
There are 2 reason’s Honda has customers and everyone else does not. First and foremost Honda builds darn good cars, light duty trucks, SUV and minivans. Secondly, and this is most important, Honda has the most educated customer base. That customer base is not affected by credit crunch, less affected by recession and unlike domestic auto executives alway knew that there is relatively limited supply of oil.
As far as lineup concern: Accord, Civic, CR-V, Pilot graced top models of Car & Driver and other automotive magazines. People who read auto mags are trying and buying Hondas.

The domestic hybrids are mild and not nearly as good as the hybrids by the Japanese. The domestic fuel efficient cars suffer from build quality issues just like all the domestic cars and the larger cars are gas guzzlers. The domestics have not proven they are on par with quality and that will take at LEAST 5-8 years to prove. It takes numerous model cylcles to prove or disprove a model or a brands quality and the domestics have a LOoooong way to go in order to catch up to the Japanese

Whatever domestic is out there the Japanese have one better
G8 (****ty anyway ) the new TL or the Maxima is the answer
The CTS (Gms best effort to date) but…. The G or the TL trump that
The Malibu (please) the ACCORD or even the Mazda 6 at this point

Also if GM think that they can sell the Volt for 40k then they are insane No one will pay 40 k for a GM unless it has a Caddy badge on it and even then its questionable

Honda gets ripped apart for not having a 8 cyl but who is laughing now. I find it interesting that Honda will get through the crunch yet some people claim they are being traded in for Pontiac’s every day lol

The ‘R’ words, injuraiv: reputation, reliability and, most importantly, resale. I went on a bit of a rant about Hyundai the other day, but to me they represent everything that is wrong in today’s automotive kingdom. They have never made an attempt to do anything original. Everything they build is just their attempt to copy something someone else already thought of. Yes I know that’s part of the game, but the domestics are just as guilty. They’ve been trying to build a better Civic/Corolla/Accord/Camry since the ’80s. And they still haven’t. And don’t give me any sh*t about the Malibu. It’s OK but it’s no Accord. Just because you have something on the lot that is in the same class doesn’t mean you’re in the same league.

I’m the farthest thing from an import humper, but check the used car classifieds. What price does a 5 year old import command compared the equivalent 5 year old domestic? You already know the answer. Whether that reputation is deserved or not, it’s still fact. And it’s a big part of the reason why buyers in a tight economy are betting their after tax dollars on what they perceive as a proven commodity.

Go Honda! Show the world what the little red engine can do and get the last laugh lol.

johnnycanuk, I read an article about how the Malibu is more fuel efficient then the Accord and Camry, the only other vehcile that matched it was the new Hyundai Sonata.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/latest_news_reviews/2009_hyundai_sonata_and_2008_chevrolet_malibu_more_fuel_efficient_than_toyota_camry_and_honda_accord_car_news

hmmm a 1mpg gain from some test (others, like edmunds, have put camry on top of accord and malibu at 24mpg avg) that I could surpass by driving better or superior value, reliability, and resale?? hmmm hmmm i wonder what I would choose. gm is really trying hard but sorry, they still dont have a respectable hybrid version (oh but their “mild” hybrids get an extra mpg or two..shut up).

Injunraiv, shut the **** up – your rant is stupid and self-indulgent. You know damn well there is no small American car that competes with the Fit and Civic. What, you’re gonna bring up the Cobalt and Aveo? Or the Caliber? Maybe the ****tastic Focus? Or are we now going to lump the Malibu Hybrid in there somewhere? It’s pure bull****, sell that garbage elsewhere.

Hey hey now, the Focus is kinda nice.

^ Which Focus, the one in N. America with the acres of grey plastic painted to look like aluminum?

when i first saw the new ford focus i thought it was a prank…but then i saw another one and i was like duuuddeee they got a few people in on this prank and then i saw the commercial on tv

The only reason the resale value is more on the honda’s is because all the import humpers that firmly believe foreign cars are better and you can’t do or say anything to change their minds. There are waaaaaay to many people that don’t know $H!T about cars so they are easily brainwashed into thinking foreign is better because the japs have a sterotype of being smarter than all these brainwashed retards. I had a civc, it’s highs was good on gas, low maintenance, the lows, rattled like an old coffee can, weak, LOW QUALITY, and very boing to drive. And this was am ‘04 I bought new, the first and LAST foreign car I would buy.

LOL, same old arguments again… There isn’t a domestic counterpart for the fit right now, I guess I can see that. But the Civic is not alone in the world. And 1115s biases aside – yes we’ll include the cobalt in that class. Deanster thinks they’re ****ty and the Civic/Fit isn’t? Come on! That whole class is basically a death trap on 4 skinny assed little tires. These ‘better educated’ Honda customers ought to go take a physics class…

injunraiv, you are right it is the same old argument. The argument which is impossible to win for Chevy, Ford, Chrysler fans. Consumers are voting with their pocketbooks, i.e. putting their money where their preferences lies. The truth of the matter that neither Ford, Chrysler or GM has an equivalent of Accord, Civic or Fit. Accord is the best large sedan, Civic is the best compact sedan and there is nothing to compare with Fit. With Fit Honda created new segment and domestics even did not figure out how to call the segment yet. Accord and Civic refreshed every 4 years: Impala is at least 10 years old, Focus is over 12, and the crop of new Fords (Fusion or whatever) is not as good as Accord ditto Malibu. Malibu being second close, but this just show how domestics are aiming at existing Accord or Civic and building to meet existing car expectations, meanwhile Honda is improving on existing model. I am not commenting on looks of the car: those are personalized emotions, I am commenting on engineering aspect: something measurable.
And speaking of measuring: Malibu in mild hybrid form is more economical then Accord, but Malibu is mid size car and Accord is full size sedan, just like Impala, DTS, Crown Vic and Lincoln town car. When those models match Accord on mileage driving impression and reliability, domestics can start retaking the market share. So far it did not happen.

I totally agree with injunraiv, as I do almost 100% of the time since he’s one of the few in here with some common sense. Ever notice the people the complain about domestics are the nerdy retards that don’t even know how to check their air pressure?

I see those who complain about “foreign” or “jap” cars as insecure, poorly educated cowards who are afraid of everything which did not come with mothers milk, even if milk was in powder variety. As history is proving they are minority of our society: well every society has defective element, nobody perfect. The fear of new and future drives those whiners. And they will drive mexican build ford believing it is American, but afraid of Honda designed and build in US by more intelligent people then they are. That’s OK: somebody has to consume second or third tier product, otherwise Mexican and Chinese workers would starve.

Dude, I’m a mechanical engineer. I design for a living. I KNOW how cars are built and I have MUCH more knowledge than you on ANYTHING automotive, engineering or fing physics as far as that’s concerned. jap cars are NO BETTER. It’s a false sense of security because it comes from a group of people that are stereotyped to be smarter than us. Besides your some COWARD from the air force. If you were a REAL man you would have joined the Army or Marines. The only reason I’m sure you joined the air force is so you can call yourself a “Veteran” without haveing the balls to prove so. Some kind of American we had in our air force, doesn’t even support American’s but is offended when someone uses the term “jap”. Screw you.

HRR, I’m going to be civil and nice today in my responses.

First of all, I slam American cars all the time, and truth be told I have NEVER owned a foreign car. My cars in order: Buick Century 2-door, then Cavalier Z24, then TJ x 2, now Wrangler 4-door. Each and every time I had the choice to buy something foreign, never did. I love American cars (especially Jeeps, Cadillacs), but I openly admit the fit/finish and build quality are leagues behind Japanese cars. It’s only now that I finished my residency and am making a real paycheck that I can afford to look at more upscale metal like the Cayenne or E-class.

This business about being a coward and joining the Air Force sounds contrived. In Canada and the US, joining the military is widely regarded as a way out when you’ve got little or no options left. There’s nothing badass about some trigger-happy teen from Wichita who ****s his pants the first time a raghead squeezes off a few rounds in his direction. Testament to the American military’s idiocy can be found on Youtube – tanks chasing kids on bikes into alleys and getting ambushed. Idiots.

Finally, just because you’re a mechanical engineer (well done, BTW) it doesn’t mean you’re an automotive engineer. Anyways, fit/finish and quality assessment years into ownership don’t require a degree to appreciate. Thanks for listening. Next post will be insanely profane.

You know Deanster, when you make a point you get my attention a whole lot more than your usual profanity laced stuff. But you seem to have proved my point – you’ve never owned a foreign car but you assume they are better. Here’s a challenge for you – go out and test drive a few, and test drive a few domestics as well. Compare apples to apples and see whether your opinions hold up. I think you’ll be surprised…

BTW, military is not always a last resort. I have several friends who have made their living with a career in the armed services. They could have done anything they wanted. What they wanted was to serve. I salute them!

HemiRetard, since you served only your sister, you are not in a position to comment what branch of service real man are joining. Since you are NOT working for automotive company (none of them are based in swamps of Florida) and your engineering skill/education obtained in junior college stop display of your stupidity.
I served to protect the right of people to live the way they want not the way some toothless degenerate want them to live their life. This is called freedom, something you to small to understand.

You didn’t do $H!T in the air force. I do more to serve my country by paying my taxes. I moved to TN for a year in the auto field before I got fed up with it, due to the japs, and moved back to FL, you know, the part of FL that actually has hills, forests, lakes, no old people or ghetto’s etc. Cops do more to secure people’s rights than the pansies in the air force.

njunraiv, I owned American and Japanese brands. Japanese were better quality, but it was in 80’s through ’90s. Today there is very little point to argue about who is domestic and who isn’t since foreign labels produce more vehicles in US then domestic ones. I would like to support US economy and not Mexican or Chinese or Korean. No one on this blog could ever argue the fact that most of “jap” cars are made in US: Honda in Ohio, Toyota in Kentucky, Nissan in Tennessee.

Yeah but the japs aren’t going to let the U.S keep the majority of those earning. Some 75% or MORE goes back to the companies home country, JAPAN.

Plus, I don’t believe that statement is correct. It is bandied about all the time by ‘knowledgable’ people on this site, but GM, Ford and Chrysler have more factories here than Toyonda. And even when they are assembled here, the foreign content tends to be higher. It’s better than building them there and importing, but still not as good as owned, designed and built here.

And yes, I hate the idea that the domestics outsource parts as well, but it isn’t as bad as that.

It is a dangerous idea that foreign companies start to be considered domestic simply because they open a factory here. The fact is until the cash stays here, it’s bad for our economy – no matter who’s doing it!

tripleonefive- I’m not even going to consider arguing with you. But currently the best hybrid that will give you the most return on the money is the Ford Escape, and it’s selling very well in both hybrid and non-hybrid forms.

xyunya- Profits are going overseas. Yeah, helps our economy better than if they were made in Japan, but not much.

HemiRoadRunner- If you are in the “engineering business” with cars, I’m sure you’ll be glad to give me your department and vehicles you’ve worked on. I’m not sure about you, but I have and do business around that area of vehicle design and consumer to vehicle testing.

But remember, this is LLN. What do you have to prove?

I am a Marine Veteran. And i support every branch of the armed forces. And the fact that u think that u serve ‘your’ country just as good as any soldier (i dont care if their MOS is raking leaves on a US base) just because u pay your taxes is absurd. You should join the veteran taxpayers motorcycle club. If there such a thing.