Agreed, these companies along with GM and Ford can’t compete with the Honda’s and Toyotas of the US. In addition to that Hyundai and Kia offer a VERY strong and competitive product.
Mitsu has the EVO but that is about it and Suzuki basically has rebadged GM crap. Just do the right thing like Isuzu and leave.

Suzuki is gone. Mits might have made it IF the MiEV were being sold today, but it’s not.

“we will never give up the US market”
is this WWII all over again?

I think Suzuki is in a better shot to stick it out than Mitsubishi – mainly because they have at least one fresh product coming. Even still it would be tough for either to make a business case to stay in the US.
1115: the XL7 and Swift may be rebadged “GM”, but the Equator pickup is a Nissan, and to the best of my knowledge the SX4 and Grand Vitara are their own efforts.

I’m telling you, if Mitsubishi had a modern Starion…RWD turbo 4, they’d steal all kinds of sales from the Civic, Scion tC, and many other econoboxes. There is a big vacuum in the market for a Starion / Nissan 240SX type platform. Pity no automake recognizes it.

Suzuki is offering a new sedan. I beleive it will debut this year.

1115, LLLLN3, When are you going to stop hating America? It doesn’t take a nuclear physicist to figure out that you two, combined with others, have a deep rooted, seething hatred for anything American that has gone on for MONTHS now on this website. NOW you are attacking a Japanese carmaker who builds products in the USA. When is this going to STOP? Why can’t you just “come out of the closet” and say that YOU HATE AMERICA… PERIOD?

I have NEVER seen either one of you twinkle-toed, anti-American import fruitcakes say ONE GOOD THING about anything even built in America!

Buy American. It’s not just a matter of National Security, it’s a matter of jobs as well.

Madcapp is right on the Starion, but neither should have they let the Eclipse turn into week kneed overweight excuse for its former self. Suzuki screwed up in abandoning the Sidekick (aka Tracker, Sunrunner) and the Swift (aka Metro, Firefly). There will always be a market for those kinds of products no matter what state the economy is in. In fact explain to me why GM now sources their small cars from Korea when they had this great relationship with Suzuki in the past.

Hey, start using your dipstick BuyUSA, and read my post idiot child. It’s called business.

I stand by my original comment. You hate America. PERIOD.

Well you can think what you want BUYUSA you obviously love America and can’t think objectively. Its not about hating the USA its about knowing what product is superior and what product is crap GM and Ford use patriotism to sell their cars to idiots like you bc you were sold on the “AMERICAN DREAM” bull****
People like you give GM and Ford a pass even though they have not shown equal reliability to Toyota and Honda bc you are “patriotic”

I have been on this board for about 2 YEARS not months

Parts Guy-The Grand Vitara has Theta components so it’s similar to the Pontiac Torrent and the Equinox like the XL 7. The last generation was a rebadge of the Tracker or vice versa either way they are the same.
Also I think the new Kizashi will use the Malibu 3.6

Guys! come on Suzuki has never really had a product truly known for much here in America. But Mitsubishi is worth staying. They haven’t had anything fresh in a few years……but they have been known for the Eclipse, 3000GT, Evo, even the Montero Sport (questionable)…..their passenger cars not so much. But Mitsubishi because of its past successes can reemerge as Sport Enthusiast brand.

They could really revamp the Eclipse to truly take on the Hyundai Genesis and Detroit ponycars..make it a true rival.

Bring out a new 3000GT variant, to compete with the upcoming Supra and Nissan GT-R a halo car for the brand.

A small sporty hatchback to take on the upcoming Astra, Focus coupe.

A sporty compact and midsize SUV

And a dedicated hybrid model

However nothing in Mitsubishi’s current arsenal is worth anything. They would also need to expand their dealer network which has been declining over the years, I’m from Atlanta and we only have two….go figure?

I saw the new Suzuki unmasked around St. Louis about a week back, it looked pretty nice. I think they should leave, though, since one model isn’t enough to make it a player in today’s environment – Remember Fiat and Renault(as Saturns) will be coming over soon as well.

I’d be a good idea to pull out… I don’t really find any of the cars in either companies lineup appealing. For me, Mitsu has two I don’t mind but two that I’d never buy… I think their styling is a little too ugly for my tastes and, seriously, I don’t even know what Suzuki offers in their lineup. I never pay any mind to them……. just sayin.

if you specialize in small cars, this is not the best country to market your wares in…

You think they can build those but they don’t want to, AutoEnth?

The Suzuki I’m intersted in seeing, esp the two other variants. As for Mitsu, I’ve been saying for 3 yrs that they should have closed shop in America. They don’t even register on the radar any more.

1115- Wake up @ssh0le! GM and Ford’s quality is the same as Honda, and they are pretty close with Toyota. Your problem is that you are stuck in the 90’s, when GM’s products were crap. But Ford’s products weren’t crap. I drive a 1997 Ford Taurus and the car has never once been in the shop. I got it from my great grandma, and she never even drove it, it sat for two years, but still never had problems. Both automakers have and are and will make better and better products, because in the modern times, you have to build good product tobe competitive, or else you lose because no one right now can afford things, so when they do buy things they want to make sure that it will last. GM has gotten better, and thats why GM and Ford outsold Toyota in May. Toyota is making bad choices. They have way too many car projects they are working on and have not delayed any of them, and thats way they lost more than GM during first quarter. GM is turning around, and eventually, it will be Toyota’s turn to wake up and realize that if they don’t spend more wisely, then they will be in trouble. BACK ON TOPIC (you were the first to comment and you automatically went off topic. Bullsh!t, that GM and Ford cannot compete with Toyota and Honda. HELLO? WAKE UP SOB!). Anyway, Mitsubishi needs to scrap the Endeavor and cancel the Raider early. They can save money by importing cars they only sell in Japan. Screw developing cars specifically for the U.S. market, and save money. As for Suzuki, bring the Swift here and expand your partnership with Nissan. Ask GM for more engines and parts. Scrap the XLf7 and make an AWD wagon of the Kizashi to take its place. If the Equator doesn’t work out, then GM always has the Colorado. They can avoid exiting this market.

iluvamcars- no iluvALLcars.

partsguy- the SX4 comes from Fiat. Go on Wikipedia and type in Fiat Sedici.

Suzuki has some great small cars – that where they need to focus, not on moving into midsize product.

Mitsu is pretty my dead over here – lancer (but no wagon) and eclipse are the only two somewhat interesting cars they have.

they are both crap companies that no one even thinks about when looking for a new car!

tripleonefive, you couldnt be more wrong about American cars, and I dont car how long you have been on the board. Its undeniable that American cars are just as good as the Japanese in quality and reliability. Thats a fact. Your opinion may be that they are crap just like its my opinion that all Toyota products are hidioulsy ugly however what your saying is simply not true. Im not just being patriotic (although I am), Im not just giving GM, Chrysler, and Ford a pass because im pro American (which I am), Im going by personal experience with owning products from these companies and by the overwhelming amount of data that supports the fact that the Americans have closed the gap with the Japanese. Get your head out of the rice and be objective.

^^Thank you.

…actually 1115 GM and Ford have both shown that they have equal reliability. Where’ve you been

Teddy Ruxtbon c73
you couldnt be more wrong about American cars- Based on my argument Im not wrong

Its undeniable that American cars are just as good as the Japanese in quality and reliability. That’s a fact.
-I think you have fact an opinion mixed up. Based on what? Resale reliability quality, long term durability ?Toyota and Honda have GM and Ford beat and have for years I cant wait for you to mention the 90 day JD Powers “initial quality study ? It is very deniable bc its not true and there is no evidence to back that up, just hope and shady marketing.

Your opinion may be that they are crap just like its my opinion that all Toyota products are hideously ugly however what your saying is simply not true.
-Based on the guidelines listed in my original argument American cars are inferior to Toyota and Honda

I’m not just being patriotic (although I am), I’m not just giving GM, Chrysler, and Ford a pass because im pro American (which I am)
-Its clear that you are admitting bias and it clearly has clouded your judgement

Get your head out of the rice and be objective.- Hmm sounds racist to me

I agree that American cars have definitely improved in quality over the years, and have made it on par with Japanese competitors. One of GM companies that has always been on par with quality and reliability over the years was Buick for some reason. Would I buy a Buick probably not, not because of quality but the styling isn’t my preference. But just as there are some bad apples in American cars there are in Japanese cars.

Back on topic…Suzuki and Mitsubishi….two companies that have had bad reliability issues. Suzuki has always had a bad image, a forgotten brand…..Mitsubishi simply lost its way in design…but needs to pick up in quality.

Import the JDM Grandis minivan and Colt small car. Design a Galant worth buying and include a VR4 model. Fire the marketing asses. Ralliart is a brand that should be reserved as their tuning arm like it is suppose to be. The Lancer Ralliart should be renamed as the VR4. Leave the Outlander and Endeavor as is. Bring back the Eclipse to its roots with turbo AWD, a coupe compliment to the Lancer, but not a Lancer coupe. Or make the Eclipse the coupe compliment to the Galant and continue the FTO line as the Lancer coupe compliment.

Whereas the rest of us shît on Honda, 1115 simply shîts Honda. And no matter how much he shîts, he’s still full of it.

Coming from someone who owned more than 2000 Toyotas, I’d have to say that the newer Toyotas are certainly far lower in reliability than previous models. However, I wonder if the lack of sales is due to the fact that their buyers are the more rational types who purchase their vehicles based on imminent needs as opposed to emotion. So when the crisis hits they completely stopped buying. GM’s market is made up of “patriots” who when the opportunity allows (loans get easier) they return to buy their beloved GM cars which I’d have to admit at the present time are more attractive visually than Toyota or Honda. The reliability of most brands now are comparable and the market knows it so it’s a moot point to argue on that end. I’d wager emotion plays the final part on the current state of affairs.

Back to the topic, Suzuki needs to revamp their whole lineup and bring the Swift and other small cars to the US. They’re really putting the wrong market strategy. But it’s to be expected given how messed up their internal management is. I know… I drank sake with Osamu Suzuki himself in Hamamatsu back in 2003. Glad I’ve severed all business and personal connections to them.

Mitsubishi should stay just because the Ralliart is a better deal compared to the Impreza GT.

I agree that American cars have definitely improved in quality over the years, and have made it on par with Japanese competitors
- No proof The fact is that Honda and Toyota are still far ahead of GM and Ford

The reliability of most brands now are comparable and the market knows it so it’s a moot point to argue on that end

-Yea Toyota is on par with Honda in build quality resale and reliability but GM and Ford are no and have a long way to go
The Mayor had to think hard for an analogy and its very dissapointing Keep trying

iluvamcars – I’m with you. I worked for Ford from 1989-1992. Back then the best company has a JD Powers rating around 1.5 defects per vehicle and the worst was around 4.5 per. Look at the numbers today. Lexus is at 0.84 (best) and MINI is at 1.75 (worst). That means that the worst car today has the same initial quality as some of the best back 20 yrs ago. Also, most cars sold in America fall in the range between 0.84 and 1.30. There are a few models here and there that might be crap, but overall, brands are pretty much reliable these days. Anyone using that as an excuse to rule out a brand, hasn’t done their homework.

^^Thanx.

^^The Taurus is such a good car and it’s ashame that people looked past that in the late 90’s and went to the Camry and the Accord. I am very impressed with my Taurus. The only thing wrong with it is that its computer needs to be reprogrammed and the clock is going out, but it is a very excellent car. There is no rust or wear and tear on the exterior. The car could pass as brand new.

I agree I don’t see a lot of them on the road and they’re just nothing to compete against Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or Ford.

Wow what a show up there… ^^

Somewhat on that note, I’ve noticed Toyota’s quality of cars is kinda not up to par as they have been before. It seems to me that they built up such a good reputation, but all this fighting for being number 1, blah blah blah (i may be semi wrong that this is the cause or not) has brought Toyota down in terms of actual quality. I’m waiting for Toyota to see a really big downturn in events and rethink their entire lineup and direction. Honda’s been okay… I really don’t have an opinion on them at the moment.. (except kill your “SUV/TRUCK” front fascia design language… it offends me)

GM and Ford have been doing well workup up. Ford over GM imo. GM does have some good cars coming, I was actually impressed with the Malibu. Ford’s doing the right thing in starting to bring over their EU cars, imo. It’s not entirely foolproof.

Overall– Toyota’s in a downward slip, Honda.. meh, Ford’s definitely getting up there, and GM’s just getting there.

now ON TOPIC… yeah I’ll just wait and see what the market does to these two brands. Methinks bringing some actually Japanese-marked cars over to America wouldn’t be a bad idea. But at the same time, it’s not a good idea either. There’s no telling that such cars will do well in the American market. But who knows..

-eat your cereal

also, think about the upcoming CAFE regulations. that’ll make making more performance/sporty cars a challenge, like making mitsubishi a sports enthusiast brand, etc etc etc.

-eat your cereal

tripleonejive-talker spewed:
……………”No proof The fact is that Honda and Toyota are still far ahead of gM and Ford”

Hate to break the news to you, mousenuts, but if there is “No Proof” then that means there is “no fact.” No proof, as you claimed, means there is no evidence one way or another. That means your claims are also invalid. So go back to feeling out your neighbor’s pitbull and leave the proof to those who have a clue.

I’d say that the Lancer EVO is one car that’s worth keeping alive.

I don’t know what to think about Suzuki…

Good riddance to bad rubbish

Strategically both screwed up big time. Likely both will exit from the market by year’s end.

Suzuki needs to bring over the Swift, which people have been asking for (not in huge droves, but with more interest than any of their other products) and this mid sized sedan sounds promising.

Mitsubishi needs to do something similar, and bring over the Colt. Surprisingly though, they haven’t had much interest in their new Lancer, which is much better than the former econobox that they sold- and kids snatched up to modify, to be like the EVO. I’d choose the Lancer over many subcompacts on the market right now, maybe aside from the Civic.

My Dad’s 2007 Eclipse GT is a great car and I hear nice things about the Lancer, but beyond that nothing in Mitsu’s lineup impresses me, they definitely need to think up something new.

As for Suzuki, I adore their bikes but don’t even notice their cars and SUVs, I couldn’t even tell you if I saw any on the road today (And I pay attention to cars). If they don’t increase their visibility they might as well pull out of the market.

1115 can put down Ford and GM all day. Resale values and slightly better reliability do not make a great car. Notice I said slightly better reliability, I totally agree with ricky_b’s comment. Ford/GM are not so much worse than Toyota/Honda that it’s really an excuse to ignore them if they build a better car for your needs/tastes. Let’s say you want a sports car, would you really choose a Civic Si over a ‘Stang/Camaro because of reliability and resale? I’ll lose some money on that future resale in order to actually enjoy driving my car.

Since I only post FACTS here … there is no discernable difference in quality any longer. Also FACT, the import monkey is still living in 1995.

Everyone has made you look like an idiot 1115.

you mean there could be no more ****y kids in their ‘daddy-bought-me’ evos? nice!
on a more serious note, i honestly believe mitsubishi should have pulled out even before the 2000’s; theyre a dying brand in america

no way, they consider that a swear word?

Iluv
No I dont think so bc no one can disprove what I am saying and soomeone who drives a 97 Taurus shouldnt be calling anyone an idiot lol

GM has gotten better, and thats why GM and Ford outsold Toyota in May
-WOW with all the rebates and GM closing brands and giving cars away they should be selling more than Toyota idiot. Sales dont make a better car and dont get excited for one month of sales

Toyota is making bad choices. They have way too many car projects they are working on and have not delayed any of them, and thats way they lost more than GM during first quarter.
-Pure opinion from a 97 Taurus owner look above

GM is turning around, and eventually, it will be Toyota’s turn to wake up and realize that if they don’t spend more wisely, then they will be in trouble
_Well as of right now they SUCK and still make unreliable crap just like your 97 Taurus

^^Screw you. You don’t drive a Taurus so you do not know what kind of a car it is. You never debated me on how Toyota is not being wise with their choices, so i guess you agree with me. Remember that GM has been the idustry leader for 77 years, but fell off last year, but that does not mean they will not become the industry leader again. That one month could lead to two months or four months or more months of better sales than Toyota. I also drive a Chevy Cobalt and I have only experienced two problems since i bought it in 2006, and those are that one of the tail lights burnt out, and one of the front speakers blew out. And hello? The Malibu has excellent reliability. Go to Google and type in 2008 Malibu quality studies. I mean come on, Motor Trend even though the Malibu was better than the Accord and the Camry. Ford’s quality is equal to Honda’s and it has been for a while now. They have new products that have excellent quality. And how dare you say that Ford and GM cannot be competitive because you should have done your homework and discovered that the new Fusion and Fusion Hybrid are gaining fast. Sales of the new Fusion are very high and that helped Ford outsell Toyota. So what you are saying is that the cars may have good reliability now but wait five years and see. Well you have to say the same about Toyota. You cannot go around saying that in five years, GM’s cars will be crap and Toyota’s will still be excellent. And my Taurus is a very nice car and i have enjoyed it. I am going to list to you all the cars i have drove and how long i have had them. 1987 Ford Thunderbird (1987-1992), 1991 Chevy Cavalier (1990-1993), 1991 Chevy S-10 (1991-1995), 1993 Chevy Tracker (1993-1995), 1995 Ford Escort (1995-2000), 1998 Chevy Venture (1997-2002), 2000 Chevy Cavalier (2000-2004), 2002 Chevy Cavalier (2002-2004), 1989 Toyota Pickup (2004-2005), 2003 Chevy Blazer (2004-2006), 1997 Ford Taurus (2005-present), 2007 Chevy Cobalt (2006-2009), and soon i will be getting a Saturn VUE to replace my Cobalt. And i loved all those cars and had little no problems with almost all of them. The only cars i had problems with were the Chevy Blazer, the Toyota, and the Escort. I want to know what kind of cars you have driven. Wkae up you smug B@st@rd! GM is just as good as Toyota! That Toyota pickup i drive was a piece of crap because the bumpers fell off, it rusted big time, the left headlight went out, the seat tore, and the damn thing went out on me after a year! And everytime i got rid of a car, it was so i could consolidate and get something cheaper, and when i got rid of both my Cavaliers, it was to get my Blazer and my Toyota. My Toyota went out so i bought my G-Grandma’s Taurus. And my Blazer sucked too much gas so i got a much cheaper and more efficient Cobalt. I never got rid of a car because it was just awful and had bad quality. The Toyota does not count becuase it died. There is this ongoing battle that GM and Ford are crap compared to Honda and Toyota. But you rice lovers lost, because GM and Ford are just as good as Toyota. And i am not saying that Toyota and Honda are bad cars, they are really good cars, but getting really ugly, i mean have you seen the new Lexus RX and the new Acura TL? Don’t tell me that the RX is better than the new SRX. And don’t say that the new TL is better than the CTS, because the CTS is ten times better. I do not know what you are smoking but it must be something good! Get your head out of you @ss and do your Homework!

-iluvamcars

P.S.-Good Riddiance.

^^ Do you seriously think that if these new jap models look pretty they’ll be selling more than their domestic competitors? Given their past brand image, I’d have to say yes. Off topic, your long post regarding owning a bunch of a domestics and a single lemon Toyota doesn’t hold seeing that in my experience (that means owning at least 100 of Chevy, Ford, and japs at one time) Toyotas did last much longer than the domestics. Anyway I wouldn’t say which one is better but the TL AWD is cheaper than the CTS so the CTS should be better technically. As for aesthetics, it’s impossible to quantify so let’s leave it out.

Bottom line, why bother with all these domestics vs asians when you can get a 2008 Volvo S80 T6 AWD for 27K. That’s as much as a brand new Accord. Or a 2008 Audi TT 3.2 Quattro with only 14K miles for 30K? Why a new CTS-V when there’s a 2008 Jag XK that’s only 11K miles for less?

You never debated me on how Toyota is not being wise with their choices, so i guess you agree with me.
– Sorry buddy, I don’t have to debate you on anything. It’s obvious you are an idiot who drives a Taurus and a Cobalt. Toyota is still selling plenty of cars and have the #1 selling car in America. To say I agree if I don’t debate is something I would expect from someone who is stupid enough to buy a Taurus AND a Cobalt

The Malibu has excellent reliability. Go to Google and type in 2008 Malibu quality studies.
—When I went and looked up the Bu online I saw a recall for the old ones almost every year they were produced and I also saw a recall for the NEW one. Initial quality studies mean NOTHING, its long term durability is not there and wont be there for at least another 7 years and based on the fact that it was recalled its just as unreliable as the previous generations

They have new products that have excellent quality. And how dare you say that Ford and GM cannot be competitive because you should have done your homework and discovered that the new Fusion and Fusion Hybrid are gaining fast. Sales of the new Fusion are very high and that helped Ford outsell Toyota.
—Everyone keeps saying this but they never have any proof other than a 90 days study from a MR company

So what you are saying is that the cars may have good reliability now but wait five years and see. Well you have to say the same about Toyota. You cannot go around saying that in five years, GM’s cars will be crap and Toyota’s will still be excellent. And my Taurus is a very nice car and I have enjoyed it
–I m glad you enjoy your Taurus I really am. Toyota and Honda have PROVEN vehicles and I know that’s hard for a guy like you to understand but I’ll try and explain it to you again. Ford and GM make crap and now have to prove that their cars can last. They have to show with time that their cars are just as reliable and durable as Honda and Toyota products have been for the last 20 years. To jump the gun and say they are “unsurpassed” without proof is a lie and they don’t have evidence to back that up. SO once again Toyota and Honda PROVEN Ford and GM NOT PROVEN Get it ???

Don’t tell me that the RX is better than the new SRX. And don’t say that the new TL is better than the CTS, because the CTS is ten times better.
-10 x better lol. Where is your proof and what are you basing this on? If you are basing on durability and reliability and resale value you are wrong. Individual opinion on looks is just that, opinion. The TL looks better than the CTS and the RX looks better than the SRX in my opinion. The FACT is that the TL is PROVEN and so is the RX. The FACT is the CTS failed in durability tests online and the SRX is new and has no history so its unreliable until proven otherwise.
SO when you can stop buying crappy cars and go the library and look up proven and unproven in the dictionary. Until then you are just typing nonsense

Oh yeah! I’m just really stupid! I know that GM made crap up until about a few years ago. And everycar has a recall, no matter how perfect. The new Malibu had ONE recall, and you assume its just a terrible car. Its not. Recalls are just a part of process, and most of the time, its the supplier’s fault. I never said the SRX was more reliable, i just said it was more stylish. And online tests are not as accurate as true road tests! The CTS looks good and has good reliability and style. You have no response to the Ford has been equal with Honda for a while now! f**k you smug b@st@rd! Oh, and Veda, screw you! Get a life! And remember, Ford was the first to mass produce, so if it weren’t for Ford, your precious jap cars wouldn’t be what they are today. That Toyota i drove wasn’t even 20 years old! My Taurus is almost 12, and is looking like it will be a lot better than my Toyota. And llike i said, all those many americans i had were good cars. I did not get rid of them because they didn’t last or they were terrible, i got rid of them because i enjoy new cars, and after a while, i feel its time to get a new one. I have never had a car for more than seven years, or eight, because I LIKE NEW CARS! GM’s turning around, and their products are getting better. I want to hear Toyota’s reliability scores. Educate me, because you obviously did your homework. I’m serious i wanna know! I also want you to compare them to GM’s.

- iluvamcars

Just because they have the number one selling car im America, does not mean they are not making bad choices. Do you just completely ingore all bad news about Toyota, and soak up all teh bad news about GM? Obvioulsy Toyota has had bad news! I’m not bashing anything! I don’t have a problem with Toyota’s, i have a problem with you, because you post nonsense about GM and Ford, that was true years ago, but not really right now! Just think of something positive to say about GM and Toyota you mother ****er!

America is forgetting Mitsu and Suzuk

tripleonefive: “Agreed, these companies (sic0 along with GM and Ford can’t compete with the Honda’s (sic) and Toyotas of the US….”
Tawn.

reedfast: Mitsu did build the Zero.

Madcapp: Starion was crap. If they’d been able to point out that the diamante was a better car than the faux-luxury camcords of the day …

johnnycanuck: Eclipse= No. 1 car choice of stupid boys.

tripleonefive: Yawn, but if your point is that the Tracker was not very good, touche.

The AutoEnthusiast: The 300Gt was great, but mitsu doesn’t have anything that’ll drive people to the showrooms.

“Mitsubishi because of its past successes can reemerge as Sport Enthusiast brand.” Uh, no. Nissan/Datsun/Mazda have blocked that off.

“Bring out a new 3000GT variant, to compete with the upcoming Supra and Nissan GT-R a halo car for the brand.” good idea, but Mitsu ain’t got the money.

leftwingagenda: “if you specialize in small cars, this is not the best country to market your wares in…” Astute!

iluvamcars: Ford’s quality is better than honda, except the Fusion V. Accord/TL. Honda barely wins that one. Toyota is just lousy.

“I drive a 1997 Ford Taurus and the car has never once been in the shop.” You’re supposed to value these nerds’ babble over your own experience.

“GM has gotten better, and thats why GM and Ford outsold Toyota in May.” I disagree. GM has been better for a while. Maybe people are looking for value, or maybe it’s styling that’s getting people.

idrinorbarsaku: “they are both crap companies that no one even thinks about when looking for a new car!” I agree, but not completely.

teddyc73: “I’m going by personal experience with owning products from these companies ….” PERSONAL EXPERIENCE DOESN’T COUNT!

mayer_ray_nagin: “And no matter how much he shîts, he’s still full of it.” Funny.

tripleonefive: “The fact is that Honda and Toyota are still far ahead of GM and Ford.” That’s not a fact. It’s an opinion, or (if you’re analyzed some facts) a conclusion.

Toyota is not on par with Honda in build quality. The only thing even close is the Corrolla/Civic.

iluvamcars: “The Taurus is such a good car and it’s ashame that people looked past that in the late 90’s and went to the Camry and the Accord.” The problem is, those cars got updated regularly, and the taurus, while still a better car, wasn’t as fresh.

tyler_is_aero_tt: i’ve seen 2 Routans on the road.

2WheeledSpeed: “would you really choose a Civic Si over a ‘Stang/Camaro because of reliability and resale?” Only if you’d choose a PC over a Mac for virus protection.

tripleonefive: “soomeone who drives a 97 Taurus shouldnt be calling anyone an idiot lol.” Unless that person actually is an idiot. If it’s paid for, drive it!

“Sales dont make a better car.” you’re right.

“Toyota is making bad choices.” Buyers are making bad choices. The
One
You
Ought
To
Avoid.

“unreliable crap just like your 97 Taurus.” I’m gonna let you read that one yourself.

iluvamcars: “The Malibu is the best commuter coffin ever!

“Motor Trend even thought the Malibu was better than the Accord and the Camry.” Motor Trend DRIVES the cars!

VUE is the best cute-ute ever.

“The Toyota does not count becuase it died.” Mine counts BECAUSE it DIED!

GM and Ford (and Honda) are better than Toyota.

Veda: The “TL-SH AWD” ius actually pretty good, but the CTS is world-class.

“why bother with all these domestics vs asians when you can get a …. Or a 2008 Audi TT 3.2 Quattro with only 14K miles for 30K?” Certainly a legitimate question.

tripleonefive: “Toyota is still selling plenty of cars and have the #1 selling car in America.” And to quote you, “sales dont make a better car.” I don’t see why someone would buy a Camry/ES, when a Malcord or Fusion exists.

“Ford and GM make crap and now have to prove that their cars can last.” A co-worker drives a ‘68 Cougar.

^^Thankx for backing me up some of the way.

You have no response to the Ford has been equal with Honda for a while now! f**k you smug b@st@rd!
-read my responses There is no proof that Ford is even close to Honda now

“Toyota is still selling plenty of cars and have the #1 selling car in America.” And to quote you, “sales don’t make a better car.” I don’t see why someone would buy a Camry/ES, when a Malcord or Fusion exists
-No sales dont make the better car but if he is saying that Toyota is making bad decisions then why do they still have the #1 car ?
The things that make the better car are the things I have been saying for 2 years now
No matter what Ford and GM cars arent proven and the Toyota and Hondas are.
The facts this and its hard for an american to accept that their cars are inferior but its the truth
and dont use Malcord bc the Malibu is beneath the Accord and comes from bad stock You can use FusionBU
Iluve needs your help Maybe you can get him a job cleaning up ****

Oh **** you! Just because they have the number one selling car does not mean they cannot make mistakes and bad choices! Say i have a company, and my company’s product is teh number one selling product. My company overspends, doesn’t delay projects, and and continues to stick with expensive promotions, but that will not stop the product from being number one. Do you see my point ass ****er? I am not stupid, and i am happy with my Taurus. I don’t say i havn’e given japs a chance, because i have test drove Accords and Camrys and compared them to Malibus and Fusions. When i bought my Cobalt coupe, i compared it to a Civic coupe, and i felt the Cobalt was smaller, but more attractive. I didn’t start this war, but its on and we will continue this discussion on another article eventually! I’m not going to tell you to go live in Japan because that card is played to much by the idiots on this site. I hate people like you though! Quote: Well you can think what you want BUYUSA you obviously love America and can’t think objectively. Its not about hating the USA its about knowing what product is superior and what product is crap GM and Ford use patriotism to sell their cars to idiots like you bc you were sold on the “AMERICAN DREAM” bull****
People like you give GM and Ford a pass even though they have not shown equal reliability to Toyota and Honda bc you are “patriotic. Thats bull**** and you know it! Remember, American car companies were the first to sell cars here! And we do not give them a pass you mother ****er!

- iluvamcars

P.S.- Good riddiance!!!

@Jackjimturkey, and you can go on bragging about how much money you’ll get back on your Honda while staring at the rearend of the ‘Stang/Camaro that just blew your doors off. My point was that you shouldn’t allow your choices to be dictated by numbers on a paper.
So you get x% more back on your trade in? I don’t care, I’ll pay a little more money for a car I enjoy.
So you can show me a JD Powers or Consumer Reports article praising the reliability of your car? Again I don’t care. This isn’t PCs and Mac’s we’re talking about here, like ricky_b noted except in extreme cases there aren’t many cars built today that are so crappy you’d be a fool to buy them, no matter what 1115 says.
Y’all can live your life by the numbers, as long as you stay in the slow lane, out of my way.

^^I’m with you, i am just trying to get an asshole’s head out of his ass, but thats impossible beacuse its so far up there and he is an asshole!

Suzuki should stick with making awesome bikes. Forget the car business, it’s crowded enough as it is.

^
^
Now now Iluv name calling will get you nowhere. Just bc you have no evidence (much like everyone on this site) for the **** you spew you shouldnt get mad bc that is not what adults do.
You probably bought the Cobalt bc it was less expensive and had more rebates bc it is crap and not a Honda or Toyota. The more you get mad the more I sit back and laugh bc its not personal its about the facts and the facts say the Honda and Toyota products are better than GM and Ford

^^Ya, ya, ya! Sure! Go ahead and believe what you want. I only got mad because you keep saying ****.

I drive a 1997 Ford Taurus and the car has never once been in the shop. I got it from my great grandma, and she never even drove it, it sat for two years, but still never had problems.
The only thing wrong with it is that its computer needs to be reprogrammed?
–It sat but you never had any problems That is the only way a Ford will have no problems If it sits still then the only issue is it being an eyesore just like your great grandma

MRN No proof, as you claimed, means there is no evidence one way or another
-Yea that made sense.You are not even worth it but you know the story

That was very uncalled for as she died recently you SOB!

Btw, Suzuki has stopped making the VL7 as they only produced four models in May, compared to 12,000 in May 2008.

^^XL7, soory.

^^sorry, sorry.

That was very uncalled for as she died recently you SOB!
-Well that is what you get when you start with people. I went easy on you I didnt say how much of a whore he was.
Good looking on Wikipedia for the XL7 data. Now find some evidence that Ford is near Honda or Toyota in quality

I think an apology is in order, and plus, the other day on CNN, i saw a report that Ford’s quality was equal to Honda’s! Oh and i think you better stop talking about my great grandmother, you bastard.

And an adult would not go that far when they start with someone!

tripleonefive,
You are way out of line! This isn’t a forum to make fun of family members! I’m surprised you are not banned! But then again, what do you expect from the people who run this forum!?!?

I dont think an apology is in order bc when someone comes on and makes a lame attempt to insult me and and makes false claims like Ford is equal to Honda in quality when there is NO evidence I feel it is my duty to say what is necesary to shut them up. If you cant take it dont dish it out
Since when is CNN an automotive authority ? They were just repeating what Shay D Powers was saying in their 90 day bull**** study. Ford hasnt gone the 10 year 100k with no or very minor issues and oil changes like the J2 have. No passes for GM
I will take about your great grandmother if I see fit so keep talking an provoking bc I have no issues with insulting her you or anyone else

Just as i think of BANKRUPTCY when i think about GM, I think of IDIOT when I see then name tripleonefive.

Since when do people talk about other peoples relatives to get even over a car argument, I have only heard of real b!tches doing that!

So now you are starting with me but speaking of bitches werent you the one in the last post whining about being banned lol ?
Watch it before you are next

You are way out of line. Calling my late great grandmother a whore over a car argument is just extremely childish. Get your facts and priorities straight before you say something about my great grandma, or wait, before you even post! You have no boundaries and also have acceptance issues. Thank you idrinorbarsaku for backing me up, 1115 is just being very childish and stupid.

Well, it looks like you can read word’s, but it doesn’t look like who know how to put words together to understand what the sentence means!

Well Idrin It looks like you got in over your head, but hopefully you will think the next time you ‘back someone up” !
Iluv-It looks like you need idrin to hold your hand so you seem like the child to me. You are the one who started with me and now you are whining like a lil girl.

Anyway, Mitsu and Suzuki dont have a competitive product to counter Honda and Toyota. Mitsu could probably survive if they base all of their cars off of the Evo platform and go for a more sporting image but Suzuki can forget it.

You just keep going and going…kind of like the energizer bunny…but even it runs on batteries that will eventually die!
Last time I checked, someone having your back was never a bad thing, no one has yours…which is normal because we have all gotten to know you real well!

You can always argue about something if the word “if” is added in, the problem is that they don’t make their cars that way, and chances are, they never will! We actually had 2 suzuki’s. One was a 2001 xl7 sport, and the other was a 2005 xl7 limited. Ironically, they both had the same problem even though the 2005 was the newer model. They weren’t bad suv’s at all! Unfortunately, they got turned into gm crap!

I stated my opinion, but you decided to respond back! Suzuki only has about three models left now, and with the Kizashi being unknown, i think Suzuki will have it bad in the coming years. What they need to do is strategize with GM and spend a good amount of time to come up with an all new winner to make at CAMI. Keep the Kizashi going and keep the Grand Vitara going. Base the Grand Vitara off Equinox componets, but no badge engineering. They need to bring the Swift to the U.S., as they could use a subcompact, and it wouldn’t be that expensive, a lot less than developing a whole new car. Importing and partnerships are the key for Suzuki’s path for success. As for Mistubishi, They have a new styling language with the Lancer and Outlander, but the rest of the lineup still has the old language. The Galant needs Lancer headlights and some chassis upgrades to help make the car slightly competitive. Bring the Colt over, it has the new styling and would be pretty competitve. Ask Chryler for a version of the next Durango for the next Endeavor. If you style it right and advertise properly, you might see good sales. There is no need for a pickup or a full size car, and the Eclipse probably shouldn’t have a future in the lineup. But if its a car they just want and need, then downsize it, but put in a turbo, to make it competitve with the samller performance coupes and convertibles. Well that may not be the best move. They both need to allign better with the competition and need to stop coming up vehicles that they simply think would be good for their lineup. I would hate to see Suzuki go and i wouldn;t be too happy if the Mitsubishi left either.

The Kizashi has no place here. There is too much comp from Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda and Hyundai.
It would be a bad idea for Mitsu to use the Durango platform, if you remember Mitsu already tried that with the Raider and it failed miserably.
The Endeavor is a crossover not a truck so if they were to do use a platform it would have to be the Journey platform.

I would miss the Evo, but other than that I think it’s a smart idea for both of the companies. There’s no rule saying they could never return if circumstances changed. Look at the Fiat/Chrysler deal.

^
^
The next Durango is going to be a crossover, so that would work.
The problem with the Raider is it has no advertisement, so if the Endeavor had advertisement and an attractive face, it might work.
And do not forgot there is competition from GM and Ford too, but not Chrylser. I want it to happen because then pretty much every autmoaker, excluding ultra luxury brands, is in the mid size class. And you left out Kia and Volkswagen.

There is no comp from GM and Ford. If you want to start with that again so be it. I will now speak on
Hyundai/Kia
- Toyota and Honda have to worry about Hyundai/Kia. They have proven that they make a reliable product at a great price point. The Genesis sedan and coupe, the Kia Forte along with the upcoming Sorento should be great sellers. They need to work on their gas mileage and get a solid styling language but other that those mentions they are a serious force to be reckoned with
VW- I dont think they will ever be able to sell volume like Toyota and Honda also I think they need to work on their lineup. If they want to compete with the J2 they need an affordable midsize sedan, a large family crossover and a real minivan not a rebadged Chrysler

Whoa whoa whoa! Hold the phone! This is supposed to be about MITSUBUSHI and SUZUKI.
First of all, any article that has to do with American sales/cars AUTOMATICALLY and ALWAYS diverts to an argument between the Detroit Three and the Japanese Two (yes, I’m talking to YOU, 1115). You’ve made your point! You’ve expressed your opinion and everyone and their gramma knows about it! Everyone else, if you’re so annoyed, DON’T REPLY TO 1115′S (or Bankruptcy2009, or NMOFGM for that matter) COMMENTS. Personally, I don’t mind as long as they’re within reason.

BACK ON TOPIC. Suzuki’s last shot should be the Kizashi. If they can’t sell it in decent numbers, go back to selling just bikes. Mitsubushi, IMO, is a lot more viable. They have pretty good product (Lancer and Outlander for the most part). If they can get the iMiEV over here and redo their other three models, and increase their dealer network (which IMO is why they’re not selling), they can get back on their feet.

The Routan is a real minivan, because the Chrylser minivans are true and were the first traditional north American minivans. The Malibu competes just find with the Accord, and the Fusion is doing great actually, and it is gaining on the Accord and even the Camry. You can sit here and say what you want about reliability, but you cannot deny sales! Its not hard to walk away from this argument (which i am winning) because you keep saying stupid things that are not even true!

HELLO!!! The Fusion is the third best selling mid size sedan on the market! And the Malibu is not that far behind!

I warned you.
WELL! First off you are not winning any argument bc the Fusion nor the Malibu are the #1 selling in America like the Camry so your sales argument is bull****. They are also unproven therefore unreliable
The Chrysler is the worst minivan on the market and the Sienna and Odyessy are better choices.
You are premature in your assessment of winning this argument but Im sure you are accustomed to hearing the word “premature”.
You seem eager to win something since you keep losing everything else like your whore great grandmother

I’m sitting on here…

begging that LLN finally blocks tripleonefive. Not only for the fact he’s a troll, but this little argument has gone on for far too long and too far astray, with the profanity of their arguing getting out of hand.

**** You! Do you have any respect you mother ****er? Oh, and just because a car is unproven does mean its unreliable. Go to google and type in ford fusion sales and click on the one that says With sales up 26 percent, 2010 ford fusion is the…. and read the whole article! I will prove the Fusion is worth buying, is the number third selling sedan, and you will also discover bad news about the Accord and the Camry! Do it! Go read it! You want me to prove myself so take my instructions and follow them !

jayjc08-i’m with you. i am sorry for my profanity but he went way too far and i got very upset and angry with him because he insulted my late great grandmother, rest her soul. He should be blocked, then i can be at peace, and continue to share my opinions on this site without him in the way causing arguments and being childish.

Well just for the record I made a post without insulting you and in your comeback you chose to insult me and claim victory so don’t blame me for getting back at you. Also it was a bad choice of words to call me a motherf—ker. I’ll spare you and leave that one alone
LLN has tried to ban me and I have had the editors try and intimidate me in many ways. I will just get on under another tag, either way as long as there are people on here spreading untruths about Ford and GM being equal when there is no evidence to support it I will be here

Well did you go and read the article? Because if you did not then you are just being reidiculous because you are afraid of what you will read. Go read the article and give it a rest!

send the link and I will respond but watch your mouth and tone

I honestly do not know how to do that, so go look it up yourself.

You have caused a lot of damage over the weekend and you have said some hurtful things. I am done now(I will be back tomorrow to talk even further) and i am logging off. I feel that i have one this battle because i proved to you many things and left a pretty large mark here. You can continue on with your childish ways and i will deal with you tomorrow, (starting at 9AM). I t would be nice if LLN blocked you. If they do and you sign in under a different name, you better watch what you say because i will respond, no matter what. I don’t consider this a war but it is on as of now. I have proof for the Fusion and you need to go look it up and then respond. I will see it in the morning. You bring shame to this site by saying what you did about my family member. That is my personal business and you have no right to say things about my family, whom you do not even know. My great Grandma struggled with many things over the past ten to twenty years and was a very good woman. Shame on you.

Good Riddiance- Its on tomorow.

To everyone else on this site, i am sorry for whatever profanity i have said. Thank you.

I will be back tomorrow morning and we shall continue tripleonefive.

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6561998/news/with-sales-up-26-percent-2010-ford-fusion-is-third-best-selling-midsize-car/index.html

Whatever your opinions about GM and FORD, 1115, I do understand you just don’t like GMs or FORDs, period. You want to make the sly “under-your-breath” comment to the effect “DETROIT must burn” and except to just walk away with it or get a stupid little flame war going.

Congrats. You got the latter.

The unfortunate fact is that MITSUBISHI, who really should have kept making AWD Eclipses, and SUZUKI, who I hope still sends over their great motorbikes, just has not moved fast enough and strongly enough to compete in the US. The Gas Spike at the end of 2008 really upset so very delicately balanced apple carts, including GM and CHRYSLER, not FORD as you wrongfully contend. Or are you a EUROPEAN who is missing the fact that FORD is one of the best companies in or operating int the EU and GB?

Further, going on your first comment, GM was NOTORIOUS for NOT making small cars and SUVs until a few years ago. This more than anything is likely what is killing SUZUKI, GM is NOT buying SUZUKI’s small cars and SUVs. GM is making their own and making better vehicles and making them better. GM only lacks a sub-compact of their own, to which, they lean on DAEWOO for their AVEO. Something that is going to change in a year or two as well, Remember the CHEVY SPARK?

QUALITY and DESIGN for the D3 are improved to and in many cases, by GM and FORD, beyond, HONDA and TOYOTA. GM’s BUICK division holds the top spot for most reliable product line, tied with JAGUAR. Something that GM is likely going to only expand upon in the coming months and years.

The thing that erks you, I think, is that you are seeing DETROIT rightfully assert themselves in competition. Even playing catch-up they Just keep taking chunks out of the competition. I’ll gave you a freebie if you can catch it. GM is improving by leaps and bounds, FORD keeps truckin’ (pardon the pun), and CHRYSLER just will not die… and but TOYOTA and HONDA, if or when they fail, no one here will lament their passing, but when they lose that so highly revered place as “highest quality and best design” in the eyes of consumers, The fan boys are the ones who will cry out the loudest trying to make it sound like a “a minor setback” or “just a flock”. But the fact will be that the hometown team took back the field.

What erks you most is that in the next few years, DETROIT will be doing to TOYOTA and HONDA and NISSAN what they had been doing to them but this time they will not be able to turn it back around. Taking sales and making the moves they just would not. The only bug in this is HYUNDAI… But I don’t see them as DETROIT’s problem after 2012 as much as HYUNDAI will be JAPAN’s problem. “Why by a Japanese car when the HYUNDAI costs so much less and seems less pretentious, as well?”

DETROIT knows Patriotism isn’t going to be enough. But then they are NOT the one’s pushing it. GM stopped last but FORD and CHRYSLER never really pushed pocketbook patriotism. That was strictly the person choices of AMERICANS opting to back AMERICA in a most fundamental way: Buying the stuff we make for ourselves, not for JAPAN, or for GERMANY, or for South KOREA, or for some other. We are really starting to ask just who is making the money off us? The answer has been unacceptable and we are starting to change that.

There are those who would rather pay for EUROPEAN peace and prosperity, JAPAN’s “graceful” decrepitude, and South Korea’s ascension, but some of us would like to hedge that back so we can fend for ourselves as a nation, pay our debts, take care of ourselves, and get ahead, just as all others would for themselves and their nations.

AMERICA is NOT going to bankroll the world any longer. We can’t afford to anymore and we DO NOT want to anymore.These small car markers failing can be seen as a simple statement: Go find another sugar daddy, B!TCH!”

Blakkarr,
thanks for that novel! Planning on getting it published? I seriously doubt anyone has the will power to even read that much, so why even bother? Just get right to the point with your topic! I quickly went by everything and noticed mostly opinions and some quick facts…

By unanimous decision, I declare the winner of this fight to be….DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!……iluvamcars…..CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

—Im glad that you learned to copy and paste a link but what was the point of the article ???? It hasnt shown that it can go the test of time like the Accord or Camry and it hasn’t outsold the Accord or the Camry

Idrinorbarsaku- Uh no he would have won had the article stated that the Fusion is proven reliable and durable and has a higher resale value than the Honda or Toyota. I guess you must have the same grandmother

“by GM and FORD, beyond, HONDA and TOYOTA. GM’s BUICK division holds the top spot for most reliable product line, tied with JAGUAR”
—90 JD powers study is meaningless

Mitsu, Suzuki, Nissan, Honda, Toyota and the rest of the japcrap should be eliminated from this Country, they just don’t belong here. Nobody wants the embarrassment of owning a japanese POS.

It is a fact that everyone would rather drive a GM vehicle.

This is GM Country.

1115,
wtf? Only a moronic idiot talks like you! You don’t even know the reason as to why he won! Why do you keep on arguing anyways? It’s not like you have something, of unimaginable value, that you need to be so persistent at talking BS to everyone! You are more than welcome to keep on arguing on here, but I have come to realize that, some people who lack the mental capacity to understand things sometimes, should never be on the opposite side of an argument. You and NMOFGM are the two that stick out the most on this forum. As for the grandma thing, it takes a man to have the courage and ability to apologize, or even make amends after any kind of alteration!

alteration! Yea I will make amends after my alteration

goodbye mr. bitchy

When your best car is a lowly Lancer, that’s pretty sad. It wouldn’t bother me if I never saw any of those hideous looking Evos on the road again.

Jesus Christ. How many brain cells did I just lose by watching that douche bag 1115 ramble on and on and on for?

It’s amazing how certain people can talk for hours upon hours, and yet they end up having nothing constructive or intelligent to say (I’m talking to you 1115).

I am going to tell you why i won. I proved some points and left my mark. I also walked away after i felt i had made a strong point. I see, as others do too, that i have won, and others have, are, and will back up on this mess.

Good Riddiance.

To everyone else on this forum, i am sorry for my profanity and other things i may have said.

No need to apologize, 1115 is an unAmerican, ignorant fock who should be hung for treason.

Be American. Buy American. buy GM.

^Whoa! You jumped the gun big time.

Nah, 1115 should be hung for stupidity.

NMOFGM should be hung for being an annoying troll that has never contributed to humanity.

I like Z06ified’s thinking!

iluvamcars
Keep thinking you won when you never proved that Ford or Gm have a higher resale and are more relaible than Honda or Toyota
Id How about those alterations ? Ask Stix to help you, and then ask him if he can provide the proof that yourself and Iluvmydeadgrandma couldnt

You just kept going. I wasn’t proving reliabllity, i was proving sales and that the Fusion can compete. You just do not know when to stop. I HAVE WON!

Good Riddiance

1115, why do you bother? Really, you are just making yourself out to look like an unAmerican, unpatriotic jackasss. If you like those pieces of sh1t from Sushiland, why don’t you move there and become one. Buy a rice patty and drink your hate away with Saki. Maybe we’ll be lucky enough that you drink too much and pass out. You’ll be doing all of us and the rest of America a favor if you never posted again.

Buy American. Buy GM. It is our obligation as Americans

First off, could we not make this out to be some sort of war between the countries? I agree that too many people have given up on American car brands simply because there is this highly incorrect mentality that American cars are poorly made. The truth of the matter is the big three ended up in the condition they were in because years ago they were forced to compete with foreign car companies with one hand tied behind their back due to the UAW’s rediculous demands and a seriously pourous free trade market. Add in truly poor decision making and you have the status quo, but I honestly believe that things are turning around in Detroit. They dont have a choice in the matter, and frankly, if we value heavy industry in this country, neither do we.

Toyota and Honda both make hideiously boring products. Nissan, IMHO, is the only Japanese brand out there that still believes in the enthusist (See 370z and GT-R), and even if the sale of cars like that dont make your bottom line, they are Halo cars that define your brands attitude; what is Honda or Toyota’s halo? The Prius and Insight? Give me a break. People buy those cars because they need the delusion that they are saving the environment when in reality when it comes time for those batteries to be replaced they do more damage to the environment than the V8 in my Mustang does in a 10 years. Bring back the scrappy Toyota and Honda from the early 90s that gave us cars like the MR2, the Supra, and the NSX.

NOW ON TOPIC, speaking of the early 90s one of the best cars I’ve ever owned was my 91 Stealth (AKA 3000GT). But despite being a great car, it was plauged with issues, was expensive to repair, and while I bought it used, when it was new it was over priced just like it’s Mitsu counterpart. Thats been Mitsu’s problem from the get go, they can’t get a decent car out that doesnt cost a fortune. See modern day Evos…sorry, thats not 34k worth of car and its looks leave alot to be desired.

The reality is Mitsu has been in the red almost from day one. They survived the 90s on bail outs from, drum roll please, CHRYSLER!! This should tell you something about that company’s decision making. Truth is I really like mitsu but the fat lady is singing, and I agree it may be time to go.

As for Suzuki, the only car that blips the radar is the Swift. Sell that or get out.

I just want to get this straight:

TripleOneFive, are you saying that the D3 will not be able to prove their value for the next 20 years? Basically, in order for them to be able to show any value to you, they need to have their current cars on the road with fewer issues than the J2 for the next 20 years? Is that where you stand?

@SoTXFord.
I totally agree with you that Toyota/Honda make pretty much nothing but boring products (Except for maybe the S2000, but the Civic Si is a joke) and it wouldn’t hurt to bring back the tuner legends NSX and Supra. But as for FUN Japanese companies, I wouldn’t forget Subaru, the STi is impressive for a 4 banger. And sadly as much as I love my Dads ‘07 Eclipse GT… I think you’re right about Mitsu, what’s sad is that they have real potential as an enthusiast company!

With Suzuki… Their bikes are legendary in the bike world (Even non-bikers have heard of the Hayabusa), but their cars? Few people here in the States even care or know they exist, so they can take their cars and get out as long as they keep shipping us those motorcycles IMHO.

@Beatusmonogous
That’s pretty much what I get from what he says, because he will trash everything you give to him as either biased or too short term and say “blah blah proven reliability and resale blah blah”. It doesn’t matter how many cars the D3 sells, how good their reviews are, nothing. He will keep spitting out that line until heck freezes over.

@SoTXFord, first of, you should have bought the real deal Mitsubishi 3000GT and not the rebadged Stealth (which were made at different factories in different countries, yes I am implying a better built quality and it isn’t the Dodge). Second off, Mitsubishi getting bailed out by Chrysler????? If anything, it was Chrysler who came crawling to Mitsubishi to help develop small car platforms/engines/transmissions. People have a very short memory, Mitsubishi by late 1990s was selling 350000-400000 cars per year (which is what the beloved Hyundai is selling right now). What F-ed up Mitsubishi (and later on Chrysler) was the blood sucking relationship with Daimler, from the early 2000s 0-0-0 financing scheme, to the Platform USA crap (current Endeavor, Eclipse, Galant).

Anyway, as long as Mitsubishi will have the backing of one of the largest banks in the world in the form of Band of Tokyo Mitsubishi, they will ride out this storm. And they weren’t always in the red, they were doing fine just like Chrysler was doing fine before the above mentioned merger with Daimler. They were making a profit for long stretches. As far as their current lineup goes, Lancer/Outlander price/performance/competition wise are fine, they need to throw money at actually advertising the damn things. The entire Platform USA lineup needs a big time make over. There are rumors that the next generation Eclipse will be based on the current Lancer platform which is a good thing. Plus they are one of the pioneering companies with current EV technology (they are already leasing EV iCars in Japan). They also have a lot of cool cars in Japan/Europe such as Pajero, L200, Colt, Grandis, Delica, iCar. They may not be the best at any particular car segment but who really is (don’t bring up any manufacturer sponsored showdowns or top 10 lists)? It’s really all about advertising/marketing and thats the area where Mitsubishi Motors has been suffering for a while in USA, Mitsubishi in Asia, Middle East, Russia, Europe is doing just fine.

2WheeledSpeed: “@Jackjimturkey, and you can go on bragging about how much money you’ll get back on your Honda while staring at the rearend of the ‘Stang/Camaro that just blew your doors off.”

I don’t no what you’re saying here. Give me a Mustang/Camaro rright now.
I won’t “Brag” about the amount of money I got back on my Honda, because it was ZERO. Left it at the side of the road where it died at 91k, and didn’t even bother to pay it out of the impound yard. Bought a better car, instead. A FORD TEMPO of the same vintage.

“So you can show me a JD Powers or Consumer Reports article praising the reliability of your car …” If I were bothered. I drive a Buick, which almost all car magazines (and even a washing-machine magazine) like.

1c3d0g: “Suzuki should stick with making awesome bikes.” You’re probably right.

07/12, 4:48 PMPOSTED BY:” I went easy on you I didnt say how much of a whore he was.” That’s a statement that speaks for itself. Not about her, mind you ….

iluvamcars: “You are way out of line. Calling my late great grandmother a whore over a car argument is just extremely childish.” That goes without saying.

tripleonefive: “It would be a bad idea for Mitsu to use the Durango platform.” Probably. the Kia Forte is going to keep a lot of people up at night.

iluvamcars: The Routan is a real minivan, but not a real VW.

tripleonefive: The Chrysler is the best minivan on the market, barely above the Odyessy. The Sienna ius ergonomically perfect, has good numbers, but mechanically outclassed.

07/13, 9:33 AMPOSTED BY: Need more oil for GM “Nobody wants the embarrassment of owning a japanese POS.” you’re wrong. Hell, some don’t even consider it an embarrassment.
“It is a fact that everyone would rather drive a GM vehicle.” Again, you’re wrong.

Need more oil for GM, Stix: It’s “Hanged,” not “hung.”

Need more oil for GM: “Buy GM. It is our obligation as Americans.” No, it’s my obligation as a family man to buy something I can depend on so I get to work and put food on the table. That’s why I drive a Buick. Though when the weather’s nice … I take my kawasaki.

SoTXFord: You appear to be drinking the “pay attention to reality” Kool-aid. The GT-R is my mid-life crisis car, unless I decide on the R8. )

Stealth was indeed a great car,

beatusmongous: “Basically, in order for them to be able to show any value to you, they need to have their current cars on the road with fewer issues than the J2 for the next 20 years? Is that where you stand?” Straightforward question. Will you get an answer?

2WheeledSpeed: i likje subarus because they’re tough. Not really fun in the wider scheme of things, but certainly compared to other Japanese compact/midsize products. I almost bought a Tribeca.

Thanks, Jack. I have a feeling the answer to your question is a big, fat “No.”

GM and Ford reliability has greatly improved, simply google it and you will see. I am not going to spoon feed anyone for that info, but there are several publications addressing it.

If Toyota is so much better, how many recalls have they had in the last 2 years? Oh, and how are the Tacoma’s frame doing these days?

I doubt anyone is checking this thread anymore, but…

@blitzkrieg79: You’re right about the mitsu bail out and I should have checked my facts before posting. It wasn’t quite a bail out. They bought 15% of the company in the 70s and created the union called Diamond Star Motors (better known to the kids in the audience as DSM) in the mid 80s which spawned many crossover models such as the Starion/Conquest and later the Laser/Daytona/Eclipse and Stealth/3000GT.

The truth is they were supporting each other back then, especially in Chrysler’s small car market and I will concede that while things were pretty good until Daimler got involved, I firmly believe that Mitsu would have been in the position they are in today back in the 90s if it wasnt for the DSM merger.

As for the whole Daimler thing, that was definitely a tech grab. People should have known they were up to no good when they fired everyone on the board and put in their own people in charge after claiming it was going to be a “merger of equals”. I fear this is exactly what Fiat is going to do courtesy of our tax dollars.

And finally, are you sure about the whole different factory thing for the Stealth? I’ve since sold that car (about a month ago actually) and I remember the sticker on the door seal saying something along the lines of “Manufactured by Mitsubishi motors in Japan”

Mitsubishi and Suzuki should take a good look at the Canadian market, where their prospects for selling decent logical vehicles could be much better than in the US, with its big-is-better mentality. Smaller vehicles make up a much larger piece of the market in Canada,and few in Canada blame Japan and Korea for the well-earned collapse ofthe US car industry.