front end looks a little too much Saab Aero to me.

Meh… I’ll believe it when I see it lapping Nurburgring.

front looks a ton like the GTO.

Not bad, but since it’s still far away from production, anything can change.

Slick looking design thus far….though like the above poster said, anything can change between now & production……

Yeah, it does look a little bit as that last concept from SAAB, but that is not such a bad thing..

Man the same front over and over again. No originality… at least with the SL they curved it enough so that it has a different effect compared to the other lines. At this point I’m still opting for a Vantage or R8.

I don’t like how it looks, but I guess anything goes since it’s still in conceptual stage. What I don’t like is the front engine layout. I’d like to see BMW make a mid-engine competitor to the Audi R8.

When wil BMW learn that they can’t sell expensive cars like this no matter how hard they try. The badge may cut it easily with cadillac but not Aston Martin.

The old Z8 was a beautiful car but did it sell?????? NO

Give up cos the only way you can sell cars at this league is if you buy Aston Martin.

Well, if BMW is gonna make the car look like the photo above, I can see how they won’t sell anything. The car just does not look fancy. I do think the engineering is upto the challenge, however. If the BMW brand does not have the weight to pull Aston Martin buyers and the like, then maybe things don’t bode well with Audi and it’s R8 too?

It looks great, but it doesn’t look like $100,000… just a bigger Z4.

Stuart — they sold all of the Z8s. It was limited production. agorgeous car and a future collectable.

What is the deal with Aston Martin love? They can’t hold a candle to BMW. They made a few interesting high end cars throughout the years, but they went under and were bought out . They are not the Aston Martin of the 60s and 70s.

BMW is still the exact same company it was always was. It is the last independent automaker in the world.

Stop the hating, and get a real company to compare to BMW, Aston Martin is no longer. They are glorified Jags with Ford motors.

BMW will probably do very well with the Z9. Their recent history is in their favor.

The picture above is not the car that will see production, do you really think that BMW would show it this far in advance. It will surely be stunning.

BMW haters are ignorant of the superiority of The Motor Works!

Go out and drive a new 335i Coupe, then say they suck. That car is unreal for low $40Ks.

Renton, let’s get realistic. Why would you even get a BMW if you don’t care about glorification and style? An Evo or Subaru would outperform most BMW in the real world but they look like ****. We’re not talking about the fact that the 335ci or 335i coupe is a bargain. Rather it’s the reason why people buy certain models over what seem like a logical choice. In the end it’s all about emotion and it runs high for vehicles costing more than $100K. Think jewelry, not transportation. Like they’re gonna drag race eveyday… Plus, get your BMW bias off for once…

Veda–

I read your post a few times and I’m having trouble with one thing.

What is your point? Go out and get an Aston Martin then, or an SL550; for some reason, you hate the cars from Munich. I guess I can understand it, I have a dislike for some brands, like Volvo.

When BMW builds **** then my bias will stop. When I am fortunate enough to afford a $100K car, I’ll check them all thoroughly before I write the check. I am pretty much always open minded.

Renton, you’re missing my point completely. What I’m saying is that even a good buy BMW has too much styling flair compared to cheaper cars with similar performance. Your point regarding AM as a glorified Jag is correct but the same can be applied to BMW as well given that there are other models from other manufacturers that provide the same performance as the 335i. In the end, you and pretty much everyone else here or in the real world buy their cars mostly based on emotion. If not we’ll see more Evos and Subarus on the road, and you won’t be driving a Bimmer. Which is why you should understand why some people fell in love with AM, Ferrari, and other pretty toys out there. On a separate note, just because you own a certain brand or can only afford that brand doesn’t mean the other brands suck. It sounds like you’re trying really hard to justify your purchase. But if you’re open minded, you should already know that. And don’t be so quick to diss a Volvo. Last week I beat a Supra using a S40 on the toll road. But there’s no speed limit here and the crazier guy wins.

Renton I feel stupid for having to make this point so please do some research next time. The reason why Ford is selling Aston martin is not just for money but the fact that it does not share many parts with other companies in PAG. The only thing in my mind that is shared with other PAG members is the 4.3 V8 from Jaguar which is completely redeveloped in the Aston. Ulrich Bez wanted Aston to have unique parts and it does. The V12 is their own and the chassis used is the VH Plaform used on all the cars only by Aston.

Z8 was only sold out because they couldn’t sell enough of them. They made a loss on the car which in my book is not exactly a sucess. The 6 series isn’t selling nowhere near the estimated targets and nowhere near as classy as the CLS. Even BMW lovers would take the CLS anyday. Face it taking the Z8, 6 series and 8 series as an example, they just can’t sell cars at the same level as Mercedes with the SL, SLR, CL, CLS.

Finally Aston Martin will always have more prestige then BMW. Only someone stupidly in love with BMW will say different. When was the last time you saw BMW sell cars for the Vanquish???? People will ALWAYS, I MEAN ALWAYS take a Aston over a BMW. There is just no comparison.

P.s. Mercedes is way better the BMW anyway.

Stuart, I’ll add to your comment that in addition to the styling advantage of MB, they are also more reliable when used in unforgiving tropical regions and have much better resale value. BMW’s will always require major parts replaced after 3 years while MB will last 4-5 years before changing the same parts. That is true for both the 3 and 5 series. A director from Castrol told me last year that he will always love Bimmers but they are “disposable cars”. You use it for 3 years, sell it, never buy a second hand unit. Doctors, lawyers, and succesful businessmen choose MB over BMW because it is simply the smarter choice. Only yuppies who care about performance only are dreaming of owning a BMW. And yes, the Z8 was a total failure and they’re saying the reason they sold so little is because of its limited. Please… they’re out to make profit not collectibles.

Stuart – You are so full of it today. The Z8 was a halo car, they never planned to make much money on those things. Like the Ford GT and so on. A failure is a car that sucks both in the commercial side and the critic side. The mags liked the Z8.

You and Veda are such farkin haters its unreal. Aston Martin does not share many parts with the rest of PAG? Please, they wouldn’t make it any other way. The Vanquish V12 is two Ford V6 blocks put together. Go look it up. Sure the chassis may be unique and the body, but I can tell you that what you do not see is a lot of Ford. It only makes sense businesswise. That is like Ferrari saying there is not much Ferrari content in a Maserati, but we all know there is. You can imagine that Aston Martins are this big mythical and majestic car company, but they are just a name that Ford bought and tried to resurrect. They did a decent job, but like I said the real competition is not worried.

Aston does not even show up on BMW’s radar, and vise-versa, wake up. BMW is primarily a sedan manufacturer, Aston makes large GT coupes. Ferrari has more of Aston’s market than BMW, and I think you know that Ferrari execs are not losing any sleep over what Aston Martin is cooking up. I really do not think people cross shop Aston and BMW at all.

Veda, MB has, of late a few quality issues as well. ALL cars now are disposable, Hyundai to Bentley; MB included. The electronics alone make todays cars, financially, a disaster once the warranty wears out. How expensive is the top of an SL 550 once the warranty is gone. I’ll never know because I know enough to get away from them before that happens. A Mercedes is not the same car it was when the 560SEL and the 400E ruled the roads in the 80s. Those were some of the best cars ever made.

I have adopted the idea of the disposable car, and it does not bother me at all. I change cars every 24-36 months anyway. My friends always want to buy the car that I am getting rid of.

The styling advantage of M-Bs is purely subjective, and the CLS just does not do it for me, they’re decent to look at when others are driving them, but I do not want one.

BMW did not set out to make a collectable with the Z8, but it is going to be one anyway. Handmade aluminum cars built in limited numbers with one of the greatest engines ever made have a lot of collectable potential. I never said that it what BMW wanted. Just because the car was a huge commercila succes, does not make it a bad car or a failure. You could make the same argument on a Honda S2000. I don’t think Honda makes awhole lot on that puppy. Also, Stuart, you want to talk of exclusive use of parts that car sdoes not share a whole lot with any other Honda.

MB is the smarter choice over A BMW? Doctors and lawyers know the difference? Well I’m a doctor, and I like BMW better. Benzes are great, its is all a matter of what you like the feel of. Audis are great as well, but I always seem to end up with a BMW.

I like almost all cars and give them all a chance. Almost. You 2 just be hatin’ the Bimmers.

Well the last itime I checked, BMW is considered the number one luxury car car brand and is now the target for others to emulate. M-B wonders what has happened to the market it dominated for so long.

Aston employees do not even know if they will have a job in 2007.

Just a question for Renton, Stuart & Veda. Have all of you driven & or owned all of the brands of automobiles that you have either loved or disliked in your posts above? What kind of cars do all of you own now? Just curious.

Renton, BMW is considered the number 1 luxery brand? I thought that was Lexus. All BMW has to do now is fire Bangle for making their cars ugly.

By the way, I like BMW also. For the way it drives, the balance of the machine. Not the styling.

“Well the last itime I checked, BMW is considered the number one luxury car car brand and is now the target for others to emulate. M-B wonders what has happened to the market it dominated for so long.

Aston employees do not even know if they will have a job in 2007.”

Please Renton just stop there I have a stitch cos I’m laughing so much lol.

First off I don’t hate BMW I just prefer Mercedes but do like the occasional BMW model. They are the sportiest (hence ultimate driving machine slogan) premium brand but never ever ever will be the best luxury car. That always has been and always will be Mercedes with the S-class. There’s just no argument there, cos no one can compare.

Aston Martin employee’s will have job especially as they make a profit. Aston has has the V12 since you have been born just like Lamborghini has had its V12 since the Miura. It updated and tweaked over the years just like the 40 YEAR OLD EVO 9 engine to what it is today. This is the reason that ford wants to sell the brand. With Jaguar sharing so many parts with PAG that it will take a whole life cycle to get any PAG parts out of Jag, but aston doesn’t share many so it will be easier to separate fro thee other PAG’s.

BMW doesn’t quite directly compete with Aston Martin but when they make the Z8/9 it will go up against the vantage so they will go head on. My main point is that if you want a sporty car you wouldn’t look at BMW but instaed at Porsche. If you want a GT there is Aston Martin. If you want a roadster there if the Coupe/Convertible SL. What will BMW target at??

Final point being that Astons are GT’s so can’t compete with BMW as they don’t have the technical expertise to make such a dynamic car to compete with Ferrari. BMW badge just doesn’t cut it for the price you would have to pay for the Z8/9 and anyone in their right mind would go for anytghing else from the porsche 911 to Mercedes SL.

If BMW was to buy Aston it would mould it into Rolls Royce to share parts and then use their own technical expertise to improve Aston dymanically to easily a level where Ferrari is at. E.g. imagine a 6 series with the Vantage styling and badge. Ferrari would be sweating it allot. trust

P.s. I drive a Mitsubishi Evo 8 FQ 320

Jon Luc–I “think” BMW is number one overall, but it is the number one European Luxury Brand. These things change for different variables. I do know that BMW has surpassed Mercedes for the last few years now.

I think Bangle had a purpose. He was to really push the envelope of styling and the company can now settle back to its more traditional style. I think we will see a lot more conservatively styled cars from them in the future.

I have never owned a Ferrari, but I really am working on it. Hopefully in 5 years.

I just bought a 2006 S2000.

I have had 5 BMWs, a E30 M3, an E46 330xi, an E46 M3, an X5 4.4i, and an R1100S motorcycle. I just ordered a 335i Coupe. My father has an X3 and an M3, he just got rid of an X5. He was a Benz guy until I started to bring home the Bimmers.

I also had 2 Acuras, a Toyota MR2, 2 VR6 GTIs and an Audi A4 3.0 quattro.

My parents and family members have owned several Benzes, Jags, Porsches and Lexus. My uncle is a Jag XJ lover and has had several. You can see all the shared parts with Ford now, as he owns a transportation company with many Ford vehicles. The Jags more reliable now, but have become less exclusive. Many of the little touches that mean so much in the overall emotional experience of a luxury car are gone, or are the same as a Mercury Sable.

My sister has a 2006 Pontiac G6 and I can see why GM has problems. My X5 just got sideswiped and I had a 2006 Ford Taurus for a week as loaner. No wonder Ford is in trouble. My dad a 1992 Taurus SHO and it was a better car than this brand new 4th (or whatever it is) generation car. The American are getting worse, not better.

Stuart the V12 in the Vanquish is not old. the V12 is not even part of Aston Martin heritage.

From Wikipedia —”The Vanquish’s V12 engine shares some components and design elements with the 3.0 L Duratec 30 V6 from parent-company Ford. It even shares the same bore and stroke dimensions. For this reason, many people incorrectly dismiss the Aston Martin V12 as merely “two Duratecs linked together.”

The V12 engine in the Vanquish was designed at Ford Research in the USA. Cosworth Technologies was originally contracted to manufacture the engine, but had no involvement with the design. Previous articles which correctly recount this engine’s development have appeared in Automotive Industries magazine.

It is correct that the AM V12 shares components with the 3.0L ‘Duratec’ V-6 engine used in the Ford Taurus, but it is not possible to simply put two V-6’s together to make a V12. The bank offset for a V12 is equal to one rod bearing width, whereas the bank offset for a 60-degree V-6 is significantly longer than one rod bearing width, thus it is necessary to design a V12 as a totally new engine.”

Whatever it is, it sure has a lot of Ford parts. That you can not deny.

“Aston has has the V12 since you have been born”

The Astons of my childhood were inline-6 an V8 powered muscle machines. No real V12 comes to mind as a main stream Aston Martin. Are you sure you know what you are talking about? ( said in my best Vincent Gambini voice)

I don’t know why you were laughing so hard at what I said, it is true. If Aston is sold, the new owners can do whatever they want, keep the old employees or use in house talent.

MB was surpassed by BMW in auto sales a few years ago.

Still laughing?

BMW did pass Mercedes in sales and sales only. It was mainly down to the mini being involved in the BMW sales but there is no way BMW is the most luxurious brand in the world. They have curved a history on their sporty handling because BMW OR NO OTHER brand can get close to Mercedes levels of providing luxury. It the reason why the Mercedes S-class is regarded as the best luxury and all round car in the world, no contest. BMW has less luxury then Lexus. Thats whats so funny and still is.

Why make a Z8/9 if you can’t do what you do best with it. A sporty coupe, just buy a porsche. Better value for money, better badge, handling, engineering and everything else.

Jon Luc, I personally own 1000+ units right now for business purpose. I also own two dealerships of well known brands. While the luxury cars only account for 10% of my fleet, I’ve got or had used for a number of years practically all sedan models from Audi, BMW, MB, Volvo, Lexus and some others being that I’ve been in business for 34 years. This is the reason why my comments are unbiased as I have no particular preference over any brand. In fact, I may be driving a S40 today, A6 tomorrow, a Ssangyong for monitoring operations. Though I guess I could say that I’m biased towards models that make me the most $. I also live in a country where there is no speed limit so I get to drive like a bat from hell every day every time risking.

Renton, if you’re a doctor and you still can’t afford a Ferrari in US where it’s cheap as hell, you’re an idiot and I’d be sorry for your patients. FYI, a new MB S500 here costs $300K+. I’ll say it again, I’ll bash certain brands based on their flaws from my experience in real life. MB is far from perfect but it is by far the most balanced compared to its competitors. The only reason why BMW sales are better than MB is most likely because the C and E class have not been updated yet and the wholesale tactic BMW uses here to get rid of overstocked units. It’s also because of the BMW hype among young kids who have never used one before. It’s like how everyone wants a showoff Ferrari and the fact that you want one says it all. Also, I got rid of my X5 as soon as I got the chance since it’s a piece of **** and doesn’t serve any other purpose but for showing off. The only good X5 is the security version which is perfect for where I’m at. Frankly you’ve admitted that you’re biased towards BMW but now tried to come off as a fair honest guy. You’re inconsistent which doesn’t bode well for your integrity.

And regarding the Z8, it was NOT a “a huge commercila succes” but a failure as per the explanation of my uncle who was the top director of BMW here until 2001. Where did you get your story of the Z8? Biased mag articles or is it just something you made up to cover your ass? Do you think a company that specialize on mass produced vehicles like BMW would stop production of a very successful model? Again you’re just making excuses to defend your beloved brand, otherwise you have no business sense at all which is not surprising given your current career. Let’s check Idiotic comments like this one for example:

“Well the last itime I checked, BMW is considered the number one luxury car car brand and is now the target for others to emulate. M-B wonders what has happened to the market it dominated for so long.”

Are nothing but unproven BS on your part. Actually I can really ask the top guys at MB if they really wonder about the market but why bother. Renton, the bottom line is you’re really full of it and don’t realize that there are others here to have access to far more accurate information in the automotive industry. You based your opinions on your very limited personal experience of a few unit samples (and non-personal as in family’s) and tried to make up stuff to cover for your ignorance. The rest are accusations such as hatred toward particular brands in an attempt to discredit the validity of our comments. And I bet while you’ve ordered the 335i, you’ve never even driven one… yes, it’s “unreal” as in you don’t know what I’m getting.

Veda — What a great response to what was a spirited car discussion, you have turned it into a personal insult-a-thon. The funny thing is how wrong you always are. Never assume anything. To me you are merely a third world slag.

I won’t go into anything more with you. Ever.

Renton, you’re funny. Just for the fact that you said that Veda has turned this into an insult-a-thon. Every post that you’ve made, that I’ve read, you’ve done the exact same thing.

Renton you have yett to prove that Aston martin share any parts with PAG apart from engine which can be replaced in hours. All other things such as transmition and chassis are unique meaning it will be easy to sell aston martin.

You have yet to make me stop laughing at how you think BMW is the best luxury brand beating let alone Mercedes but Audi, hell even Lexus.

Jon Luc – whom did I insult?

Stuart — I can’t tear apart an Aston Martin, or prove anything about how much PAG content is one. You have done nothing to prove it the other way. Yeah, the chassis is unique. Finally. They used to use an old Jag platform in th ebeginning of the Ford years and the Vanquish has always had a very unique and original platform. What else does it matter? Aston Martin is a division of FoMoCo. Period. Do you think that Ford just pours money into this division for the hell of it.

You never responded to your self proclaimed long history of the Aston Martin V12. Why not?

I never said BMW was the best luxury sedan in the world, I just said it was number 1 in sales over Mercedes. take that for what its worth. Luxury is what you want. Everyone is different and in the $100K plus group there are a lot of options. this is a car enthusiast website, I just thought it might be a driving enthusiast website as well. I’ll take a disposable crappy BMW or Maserati Quattroporte over the superior Mercedes and Lexus anyday.

Renton why would ford sell aston so quickly if it didn’t have most unique parts. For gods sake the company actually makes a profit which is better then most companies in the PAG group. It just easier to sell aston as it has less in common parts then the others. Plus do your research and you should find a interview about a year ago by the Aston chairman ulrich bez who say he had to start with other make part but over tioem the parts have been reduced to almost non existent.

p.s. you said

“Well the last itime I checked, BMW is considered the number one luxury car car brand and is now the target for others to emulate. M-B wonders what has happened to the market it dominated for so long.”

Where does it say anything about sales. All I see is a biased opinion of a BMW lover trying to prove BMW is the standard. Well if they were why do they need to copy Mercedes by building the X5 as well as this piece of **** to compete with the SL, A CLS rival, R-class rival and a B-class rival. Seem to mme like they follow Mercedes – the true industry standard