WTF is the “mitten state?”

They deserve it. Now let the domestic whiners commence with the excuses.

I didn’t realize the European brands represented such a small portion of the market. 6.8%?

I’m happy for the Asian manufacturers — building the best mousetrap, giving people what they want — it’s the American way, isn’t it? I was looking at new Chevy’s last night and I couldn’t believe how cheap the seats were. Then I looked at Toyota’s and even the Scions had much better seats than the Chevy cars.

The Malibu seats look like they were burrowed from the Vega
I’ve heard of retro designed cars but retro seats ??? Come on

Well, there it is. It’s happened. Those of us on this board over 40 will say it was inevitable. We just watched and watched as more of our neighbors and co-workers gradually gave up on the big 3. So instead of dad being a Chevy, Ford or Chrysler guy suddenly there was a Toyota in a driveway. Then the kids followed suit and here we are.

The shift to Asian vehicles didn’t happen overnight, and if Detroit believes they’re going to reset the board in their favor in even less than a decade that’s still a tall order.

Toyota fits the mold of the number one corporations in the world like Mcdonalds, Microsoft and Walmart.

Truly inevitable, and this doesn’t surprise me one bit. I’m actually surprised this didn’t happen a few years ago. Gas is going up and the Asian car manufacturers have always offerred more fuel efficient vehicles. Demand for smaller fuel efficient cars has sky rocketed and the gas guzzling SUV’s and large cars that the domestics were all about is what’s hurting them now more than ever.

Nice. Where are the haters. Now they are gonna say that the ppl who bought these are WRONG.

They are gonna be like “but its only 2.4%”.

johnnycanuck, you are correct that shift did not happen overnight, but there was a period of 10-15 years when we were drunk on inexpensive price of gas and forgot where the oil comes from. In that national delusion we build homes that shouldn’t be build and trucks/SUV/Vans that could been better suited for reality. I recall original Chrysler minivan of quarter century ago and it was minivan with 4 cylinders and uncomfortable seating for 7 (even more uncomfortable driving with 7 people in it). Today minivan is bigger then full size van of that era. We are paying for years of glut. By the same token our American ass became grander as well as waist on pants. Now we are looking for a fault: Japanese lower pay scale (hell Mexican is lower), president who does not help economy or price of oil. There is someone else’s fault all the time.
The only thing that we can do now is to slow rise in the cost of gas by buying smaller cars, trucks, SUVs. The gas price may stabilize and will not rise as fast, but it will be rising. The demand is out of our hands – it also in hands (cars) of China and India, and soon enough Africa.

Not suprising since the Aisians have better small fuel efficient cars until the Detroti Big 3 can get their acts together.

Unless they offer more fuel efficient and more reliable cars, this trend will continue…

Wow, a bunch of crap to dispell, I see! OK, someone said japanese cars are more fuel efficient. I say they’re not. They are perceived as more fuel efficient, I’ll grant you. But apples for apples, domestics are as fuel efficient as any japanese brand. A trip over to http://www.fueleconomy.gov will bear me out on this.

Someone else said they are better than domestics in general, when the fact of the matter is domestic quality is right there with imports as well. JD Powers has been saying that domestic quality matches or exceeds asian quality for a while now, but certain people dismiss that as some sort of propoganda. My personal experience is in line w/ JD Power.

Am I surprised that the sales are reflected this way? No I’m not. Every day we hear people spouting nonsense about these same ‘facts’. It’s no wonder people think it is so… Remember, just because it’s popular doesn’t make it so.

LOL ignore KBB Edmunds and other car publication trust JD Powers with their 90 day or 3 year studies to see how reliable domestic cars are lol
Domestic cars are NOT on par with the Japanese in ANY way It will take YEARS for that to happen.
Shady Powers and like I said before they are a pay for play site (Im sure you know what that means)

^ I second that, JD Power is a joke. Just look at what kind of cars are still on the road and what cars are laying around in any junk yards!

They are right in this instance, especially since the Japanese companies have models like the Fit, Yaris and such, and Hyundai and Kia have the Accent/Rio, small fuel efficient vehicles, what GOOD popular B-segment car do the American Big Three have. Ford and Chrysler have none, and GM sells that piece of crap rebadged Daewoo called the Aveo, yay.

Yup, anything that doesn’t shout about the superiority of japanese vehicles is summarily ignored.

And noname, I said ‘apples to apples’. Did you notice what Hondas sold in record numbers? The Accord. Since the Accord and the Malibu get similar mileage (actually, the Chevy gets BETTER combined mileage, 25 to 24), the economy argument gets thrown out the window.

Tat is true, the Malibu does get better milage then the Accord, I read a number of articles on it. I am just saying that for now, the Aisian companies have the market on a silver platter til the domestics can get it in gear.

I hear you – but IMHO the reason WHY they have the market on that platter is complete BS.

I never understood the appeal for the Accord, always looked like someone added fenders to a bar of soap, but what do I know, I mainly drive diesel trucks.

LOL

Does LLN ever get tired of posting the same article? I read three different stories on here and EVERY ONE OF THEM was just like “in the face of high gas prices” or “with the advent of $4 a gallon gas…” or “Americans want smaller, more-fuel efficient cars” and “the Big 3 rely on trucks too much”……….it is so repetitive and boring! On this article alone, you wrote the stupid intro paragraph and then you rephrased it and basically wrote the exact same thing in the last paragraph. Ever heard of getting to the point or starting with a hook to make people want to read or any of those things? You don’t need 4 separate stories to report last month’s sales – one is just FINE. In that ONE story you can mention this (which takes about 3 sentences to explain, then there would be no need to try to lengthen it into a full-fledged story because, as you can see, it is NOT because you basically repeat the same thing over and over again). I’m taking a break from LLN now

Injunraiv, you keep trying to come up with logical explanations as to why American cars are on par with Japanese. “They get the same mileage,” or “they score the same in JD power reviews.”

The thing is, it’s not about logic and numbers. You can’t RATIONALIZE people’s choices – consider the fact that a bucket of cum is loaded with protein. Why do people eat other stuff like candy and chocolate then? <– well, everyone except you and your mom, both big fans of the cumbucket

I still dont get why people buy the Corolla is such large numbers. Yeh, its reliable, but its a horrible car to drive and the engine sounds and feels like a lawn mower.
The Mazda 3 I can understand. Now if they had more dealers maybe it would outsell the corolla-it shoud, its a much better car.
The Civic? No way I could stare at that dash.

So that means the European automakers make up a measly 6.8% of the US market? Guess the trend toward smaller, more fuel-efficient cars hasn’t helped Mini or VW much.

Deanster, you’re right, but there is no reason to be crude, the point is better delivered when it’s not laced with cum.

steve333, explanation I think is simple. Corolla is smaller and more fuel efficient. But that was not reason 4-5 years ago, because even then Protege or 3 was a better car. There are more Toyota dealers then Mazda. Most of people go to dealer for maintenance. Also, Toyota dealership staff may be more polished then Mazda, but may reason is in numbers.

As far as mileage argument: it is somewhat shallow. Malibu maybe better by 1mpg then Accord or Altima, but Accord is a bigger car with better handling and much more powerful (in the case of EX or simply more powerful in case of LX) engine with better accelaration. After all you don’t drive numbers, you drive car. And don’t forget the service: in Honda and Toyota dealerships I experienced less pushy and more pleasant salesmen. They may not negotiate much on price, but if you buy a car for 5-7 years, $500 don’t mean much. In the case of the lease – numbers are the same. Also, 70-80% of Accords, Camrys, Altimas are 4 cylinder; Malibu is presented as a 6 cylinder car, because 70% of them come 6 cylinders from factory. I could not test drive one 4 cylinder easily and after I did I thought it has ways to go to catch Accord.

Domestics been asleep for too long, it will take them years to catch up. Even if they could, they would’ve burned too much cash getting there thus more debts.

No Deanster, you’re NOT right. I use logic because it suits me. You can ‘feel’ which car is better for you, you can use numbers, you can go by experience. But people spout nonsense like it’s fact all the time, and people tend to believe what they are told without doing the research on their own. Case in point – the election of W and the case for the invasion of Iraq. People don’t exercize their critical thinking skills enough to recognize BS when they see it. Therefore the BS that surrounds the mystique of the japanese car needs to be addressed.

You can see it for yourself in this thread:

Need4SSpeed: “Asian car manufacturers have always offerred more fuel efficient vehicles”

pmpvtkc: “Unless they offer more fuel efficient and more reliable cars, this trend will continue”

When I see crap like this spouted like it is fact, I will continue my attempt to counter. I see it as a huge issue, reaching far beyond which car you choose to drive.

“The fact of the matter is domestic quality is right there with imports as well”
When I see crap like this spouted as fact, I will continue to counter and prove wrong.

Yea, right. Like you’ve ever ‘proven’ anything.

I’ve proven more than you
You can’t even give an explanation as to why Japanese cars have a higher resale and are more reliable
I believe you referred to it as “Mass Delusion” lol. The “Mass Delusion” is in your skull if you think that Domestics quality is on par with the likes of Toyota and Honda

You know, I’ve asked you DOZENs of times where resale value figures come from. You have no clue, but you keep spouting off like you do. You think you’re some intellect, but you’re really pretty dull. And as I’ve repeatedly said, I’m not going to argue with you. You’e not worth my time.

Oh, excuse me, I didn’t mean value figures. I meant resale value. I know how to look the figures up. I only mention this because I know you’re about to go off on one of your tangents…

Im not “worth” you time lol
Funny you have nothing to say of any worth Once again why are the Japanese cars values higher and why are they selling more?
Why are the former “Big 3″ struggling now and for the last 10 or so years ?
WHY WHY WHY ???

Actually, I asked you to answer that. Once again, no answer to a direct question… Typical.

You are a car dealer and you dont know what determines resale value ?
If you answer my question you will answer the one you posed

The question, once again, is do YOU know where the resale value comes from. I’ve asked you dozens of times, you keep ducking. I don’t even care if you know – I’m just proving a point…

For the thousandth time
The company history, the build quality of their vehicles, and the reliability of their vehicles reflect the resale value
See if you can find the website on that one Mayer Ray Naggin
Now Once again why are the Japanese cars values higher and why are they selling more?
Why are the former “Big 3″ struggling now and for the last 10 or so years ?
WHY ???

That’s because the big 3 have built too many gas guzzlers. Now the asian cars aren’t as good as Fords, but the do use less gas.

Asian cars are not a good as Ford? You mean the Asians build something worse then the North American Ford Focus?

Yeah, I didn’t think you knew…

I’ll grant you this. I was talking to one of my wholesalers a couple of weeks ago. He told me he can make silly money on used imports because people believe they are infallible. And I’m talking about 150,000 mile Camrys people are willing to buy for $5,000. Are they worth it? Not in his eyes. But he’ll sell them…

I could go into a tutorial about the car biz, but that would only serve to make you think you know something. You know, ‘a little knowledge…’

BTW, took a nice Honda on trade this morning. Interested?

so injunraiv… umm…. do you sell chevys, fords, chryslers, fords, or dodges? my god am i glad a left the car business.. almost all of you are ****ing useless puppets and tools who just believe everything that has been mind****ed into your head over the years is completely true.. i mean you may be a good guy, but face it, you completely forgot how to think and reason for yourself… anyways to all of the other real auto enthusiasts here who really know what a good car is… I know it is really aggrevating listening to all of the pure ignorance, just dont waste too much time argueing with these uneducated numbnuts, otherwise you may become just like them…

i meant do you sell for GM, Chrysler, or Ford, just a little tired… later

I’m sure you didn’t but indulge me and let me guess they traded it in for a Pontiac lol
Oh and since you are the expert Pontiac salesman tell me about resale lol

Actually nick, I’ll agree that I have my own biases. But I work on everything in my shop and I’ve also had some experience at an independent parts store as well. As far as being someone who has ‘drank the koolaid’, I’ve been accused of that before as well. But let me say that I’ve taken my experiences in all fields, and pretty much try to keep an open mind about things.

All that said, my experience is that japanese vehicles are not as good as we’ve been led to believe, and domestic cars are not as bad. There is a mindset I heard expressed this morning from a customer who has both GM and Toyota vehicles in his family fleet. His son drives a Sequoia, and tends to forget about the little problems he’s has with the thing. The hood latch breaks, etc. Granted these are minor problems but his dad says he is constantly telling people he’s never had a problem with the truck. I’ve seen the same mentality, and it always puzzled me.

Now that I’m back in the biz, I look at the quality of the domestic fleet and am amazed how far things have come in just a few short years, both in foreign and domestic vehicle manufacture. Interestingly, while I find quality has shot through the roof, I find that these cars no longer attract me the way they used to. There are very few interesting cars anymore, they pretty much all look alike, and they all ride the same. And as it happens, most of the cars I would have in my garage are American, with some european and a few Japanese vehicles in the mix. None of those would be the appliances that some would call cars.

So while you may consider yourself an auto enthusiast, I consider myself an auto professional. And I wonder which one of us has really been brainwashed…

Oh, and 1115: No, I’m not giving you a lesson in auto finance today.

Bc you cant lol and now look who cant answer a str8 question
LOL @ auto professional An auto professional who sells Pontiacs and claims that people are trading in Honda’s in droves for them lol
I think someone has spiked your Kool Aid

No, I “won’t”. And what difference does it make to you anyway? You don’t ever seem to believe a word I say unless it fits into your preconceived notions. You’ve already proven what an idiot you are – just an import humping troll.

Later…

Actually, I asked you to answer that. Once again, no answer to a direct question… Typical.- I’m just proving a point…

shaver
“Toyota fits the mold of the number-one corporations in the world like Mcdonalds, Microsoft and Walmart.” You mean, cheap crap for stupid people?

injunraiv: The PERCEPTION is that Japanese cars are more fuel-efficient. The Big Three have to pump up their own efforts. GM is doing it, but it’s so cheesy.

tripleonefive: is some cases, the domestic is better, and in some cases, the Japanese is better. Bot you’re right about JD Power not being trustable.

pmpvtkc: “Just look at what kind of cars are still on the road and what cars are lying around in any junk yards!” I second THAT!

steve333: the Corolla is a horrible car. The The Mazda3 is great!