this is hardly news…wake me up when ford sells jag and land rover

that’s why bmw and porcupines are so different. With BMW’s the pricks are on the inside

was it lexus or infiniti

he only said a company from japan, to me it would seem to be infiniti

BMW *has* presented itself as an arrogant company, but I do not agree with Mr. Hofmann’s comment that a luxury car brand has nothing to do with its vehicle drivetrains.

Sorry, but if you’re in the business of selling expensive luxury vehicles in a front wheel drive format with only available all wheel drive… then there really is a problem with your philosophy. Acura fits this bill to the letter with the exception of one car– the RL.

The only thing I see as being lost on BMW is the value. E30 3-series from the 80’s are not the greatest cars in the world, but they are small, balanced and basic cars for people who enjoy driving. BMW is going to try to recapture this again with the 1-series but we’ll see if they actually do.

I see both Audi AND BMW as having their heads in slightly wrong directions.

Audi and their fanboys can cry all they want, but the only meaningful response is to sell more glorified VWs. I know it just burns the Audi fans to hear BMW elevate Lexus over them – I am amused.

Hyperion, you must be in the US. The perception of BMW is different in the US than elsewhere & the 1 series has been out for some time. I can see where the US finally getting a 1 series could reinvigorate the brand but I believe the BMW brand is already strong in the US. So the 1 series will only strengthen the brand.

As for Audi & BMW headed in the wrong direction… how is what BMW & Audi doing any different than MB or Lexus? What direction is BMW/Audi headed & where is everyone else headed?

Both BMW & Audi are getting stronger, especially in your US market. So I dont get why they are going in wrong directions. Each year US consumers are buying more and more of them. To change directions would be a mistake since they are building what the customer has been asking for.

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I used to worship BMW, mainly because of their M cars, but also because they always seemed to be way ahead of the pack in terms of high performance packaging and execution.

I frickin hate BMW now. When the dawn of the SMG age allowed for every tom dick and harry to drive an M3, the mystique was crushed and the exclusivity was nullified. Now everyone has an M car like it’s nothing special anymore. And that’s just it. BMW offers nothing special to me now.

Unlike Audi, where I can still be one of the few who can man-up to an RS4 manual and enjoy it without bumping into my friend’s grandma behind the wheel of hers – she’d be in an M3 flappy paddle thingy.

I guess I’m a dying breed. The only Audi I like is the RS4, the only BMW I like is the M Coupe, and the only transmission I’ll ever want is a manual.

hahaha “Seemann”

I use that “what’s the difference between a porcupine and a bmw driver” joke all time. Works best as a am going double the speed limit in my 3 on the traffic circle near my home!

Lou, some people buy a car because of the way it handles and dont buy a badge to try to be exclusive. Who cares who else can drive a car if you like it. UNless you are all about the badge on the front, in which case you better “man up” for one of the many $170+ sports cars.

deantj, if you are in the US for $50k you get a well optioned 300HP/300ft lb torque 335i coupe, not a 328i coupe. The 335 coupe starts at $40k and change so you get about 10k worth of extras.

Dont sleep on the Mazda3 hatchback. It is a wonderful car for the money, but so is a 335 with a Visnu Proceed

Guergel Seemann? What an appropriate name for a BMW marketing schmuck.

stupid fight that started with BMW. It was arrogant and should have never been brought up.

I’m not sure about the newer VW’s (as in 2006+ excluding the Beetle) but anything pre-2006 that I have driven thus far has sucked. At least as far as it working properly.

Now Audi, that’s a different story.. if they’re simply glorified VWs, I’m just gonna say they pull off the disguise work a HELL of a lot better than just about any other luxury automaker when sprucing up their lesser brands.

Audi is a competitor.. BMW may have the performance edge but Audi has the styling edge.. and still plenty of performance to boot. And I’m not even a fan of either brand.

BMW is one to talk about premium cars when their 5-series comes with standard fake leather

Driven,

Yes, I am a U.S. resident. Finiancially, BMW, Audi and Lexus are all doing very well. My comment that I feel they are going in the wrong directions (albeit for different reasons) has more to do with the fact that with BMW has gone very upmarket in the last several years. Only now are they going to release their entry 1-series to the U.S. market which I hope will be closer to their 2002 roots. It’s only an opinion, but I feel BMW’s slogan should be changed to “The Ultimate Luxury Machine” rather than “…Driving Machine.”

Audi makes fine luxury cars… except that they are based for the most part on front-drive VW platforms. I do like their S-series cars to a point but not enough to buy one over a BMW or Benz. Again, this is my opinion and personal preference. I simply do not agree with their philosophy for the money they are asking.

I don’t agree with Lexus either. With the exception of their ES300 and RX330 which are both based on the Toyota Camry, I like their cars much more than Audi’s, but Lexus deliberately sets out to create the most uncommunicative and overly-insulated vehicles they possibly can. There is nothing wrong with their cars… other than that they do not communicate any passion.

Add to my complaints against Lexus that they do not really bother to offer manual transmission options on their cars positioned below the fullsize LS430. I prefer a manual transmission on anything but a fullsize luxury sedan.

Financially these companies are doing very well and that is wonderful for them. Most of them just do not offer much in terms of what I am looking for. Luxury appointments do not really mean much to me. The manner or car I am driving means far more. Between the three, I’d probably go to a BMW.

i agree that both BMW and Audi have things to offer. but ask any joe schmoe on the street that ISN’T a car enthusiast they’d probably pick a bmw over an audi.

Why do people not understand that leather has nothing to do with premium anymore? For crap sake you can get leather in a Cobalt. It’s build quality, ride and handling, and besides all German cars come standard with CLOTH in Europe.

BMWs are awesome. Still.

Audis are boring and more expensive.

Lexus is teh suck ass, and should never be in the same discussion.

why are u guys hating on Lexus so much?

The best part of the whole deal is that by declaring Lexus their top competitor it shows that BMW knows they move their vehicles as luxury status symbols, not the diriving enthusiast’s brand they market themselves as.

Hyperion, I agree with your impressions. Even Helmut Panke, former head of BMW, used to talk in his speaches about the BMW brand in the US being perceived to be luxury. BMW has worked to protect that image because it sells in the States. I think the 1 series in the US will have a marketing campaign geared toward the model being a small luxury sports car. BMW wont let the 1 series damage the luxury image of BMW in the US. Its too important to sales and being competitive with MB & Lexus. They will need to separate the 1er from the Mini (a slightly smaller non-luxury sporty car).

Don, the only reason you know the 5er has fake leather is becuase they offer a real leather option. Take a close look at most Amer cars and you will find its fake leather. Only the very top models get the real thing. Im curious when poeple will learn a sports car is better with high-end synthetic cloth or alcantra for the grip and breathability. Anywhere else in the world leather isnt the first choice for a sports car. Granted the 5er is more luxury than sport (except the M5).

55amg, when you are at the top (lexus) you are bound to have poeple trying to knock you down. Being on top makes you a target. BMW is a target but they do drive well. Lexus is a target, but they do sell like none other.

Lexus’ (or is it Lexi) are great cars. They dont have manuals because they havent really built a sports car, yet. Just a sporty luxury car. Reliable luxury is what they do well.

BMW has perfected the ride/handling balance. Everything else, in this regards, is purely inferior.

I think you’ve stated the the situation with BMW very clearly. It really does make me sad. I think your prediction for how the 1-series will be marketed (still) as luxury while the Mini will be left to pursue “purist” enthusiast drivers is a pretty good guess.

And it shouldn’t be this way. For some reason I cannot fathom, the only good small enthusiast cars in the USA are two-seat roadsters. Hardly practical. The rest of our options are quite simple: econobox, SUV, front-drive sedan or expensive luxury sedan. We’re talking new cars here, not older models long discontinued.

Now, if you are simply rolling in cash then I’m sure there are any number of high end, high-powered coupes, sedans, convertibles, 2+2’s, 2-seaters, etc. to choose from. On the low end, though, if you actually care about the car’s drive layout, engine, mode of gear selection and suspension and want more than two seats… there is not much to choose from. Not right now in the USA.

So… when I see that a true 3-series replacement (and I am referring to the correct 3-series that BMW used to sell) is slated to be released soon that *could* be geared more to the enthusiast buyer but likely will just be promoted as a tarted up small luxury car…. it just annoys me.

As far as their Mini is concerned I am not very interested.

“BMW has perfected the ride/handling balance. Everything else, in this regards, is purely inferior.”

Gayness! Ok, you love BMW, we all get it. BMW has “perfected” the ride/handling balance.. dude… drive a GT3. Or a Gallardo. Please………. enough said.

“why are u guys hating on Lexus so much?”

Simply because they are from the same RACE as MB’s, BMW’s, Audi’s. Either the come from Europe or US. Very afraid the Japs will rule the automotive (which actually they have) ;P Guys, grown up please, you are not living in the 60’s.

Maybe they should argue who is #2 behind Lexus.

Hyperion, you will be able to get the 1er you desire. No matter how the car is marketed you will be able to get a stripped down model with as few options as you desire. The weight wont be bloated with options and the price will be less too.

I do think you are right about the possibility of the 1er being marketed to the enthusiast buyer. BMW could sell it as a smaller, more nimble BMW with all the luxury a US buyer expects today (options extra). It would appeal to nostalgic 3 series BMW owners and entry level potential BMW owners. Either way it will be interesting to see what they deliver to the US. And you will be able to get a bare bones version that is as pure as a modern day BMW can get.

BMW is just confident, and it has good reason to be so. However..Audi most CERTAINLY is a valid competitor to BMW, that’s not really an accurate statement. And I think Infiniti is overall a better competitor for BMW than Lexus, though Lexus is competing well also.