Diesel rules. Period. America needs to get with the program regarding diesels.

waahhh…waaahhhh!!! Not fair, you guys are too fast, im telling!!

“The Stig”
Doesn’t diesel pollute more? I would imagine that would be the main reason you don’t see it around much anymore.

With proper filters, fuel and catalysts then diesel does not pollute anymore then gas and since you are using 20-30% less diesel then gas to go the same distance…

Well you get the idea.

tissue anyone?!?!
never thought I would see the day when a diesel was kicking a gas engines ass!

The gassers get a weight break and a fuel increase and they’re still whining- what are they going to do when Skoda reveals their woodfired steamer that never has to stop for fuel…

also the reason ppl think that diesel is dirty is because in this country it is dirty we have very high sulfur diesel fuel. about 500 ppi compared to the european standard of diesel fuel which is 15 ppi. thats going to change soon w/ the new low sulfur fuel that will be comming to this country soon

What? They can’t keep up with the R10’s technology?

Yeah, change the rules because they can’t keep up with a better car. That’s really smart. I would think they would be busy trying to find technology to FAIRLY beat the R10, but no instead they change the rules

You do not deserve a break because you are unable to keep up with technology or create better technology.

Older diesels without particulate filters produce significant carcinogenic particulates. Interestingly, the newer common rail diesels without particulates are damaging because the size of the particulates are much smaller due to the atomization properties of the fuel injection system. These have the side-effect of embedding themselves deeper into the lungs.

But British_rover says it well. There’s simply more energy in a gallon of diesel than in gasoline. On the other hand, diesels are heavier and more expensive to manufacture and their fuel-injection systems are more expensive to repair. Modern diesels are also fuel sensitive: the best performance and least emissions are gained only when the right fuel is used and this is of sufficient quality.

British-Rover, if diesel is less of a pollutant that gasoline, then why are there so many people in large European cities with severe respiratory problems? I guess all of the medical journals and reports relating this to the diesel emmissions must be wrong. Stupid medical community. What do they know?

Audi rules

The thing about lemans and sports car racing is that to allow diversity in engine design, such as naturally aspirated, turbo, diesel, rotary, etc, the ruling body of the sport sets guidelines for how different powerplant can be used in the sport. Diesel in a race car is a new thing, and there wasn’t a good idea how to classify and regulate the engines so that it didn’t have a great handicap or advantage over the competition. It turns out that Audi’s engines are very strong, and the combined advantage of the diesel racing engines, which are very large and turbocharged, something you can’t do in the rules with a gasoline engine (I think), the combined advantages are quite substantial over what is currently legal with other setups.
Obviously, the Le Mans ruling body can’t tell audi to change their engine design or size mid season, so simple measures like weight limit changes and fuel cell size changes are put in place to make the R10 level, as all other contestants within a given class are expected to be.
This is nothing new, when Mazda kicked ass with it’s extremely reliable and fast 4 rotor engine in the 787b, rotary engines were banned from competition for some time. Now they’re back in the form of a new 3 rotor engine of a new design that’s obviously not in the same class as the old one.

So the fact that Audi built a faster car then everyone else is a problem? The car meets ALMS regulations so I don’t see the issue here…..

Modern dieselcar do not pollute as much as the old oilburners, so it’s the old diesels that are killing people. The new ones, on the other hand, will bring you further pr. gallon at lower emission rates. It seems that some americans aren’t able to appreciate Audi’s advanced technology.

No racing series can be dominated by one team for long and maintain viewer interest.

“Dyson Racing has now responded, saying, “it is proven on the track on multiple occasions that this new technology provides an insurmountable and crushing advantage, then it is no longer racing but rather a demonstration run.”"

Sounds like Dyson has acknowledged Audi’s superioirity to me. I understand that Audi wants to milk their success as much as they can, but who wants to compete in or watch a race that isn’t even close?

If there is such a disparity and the diesels are so superior why don’t they just make another division for diesel only. Isn’t that why they already have the different divisions.

So much ignorance here. Racing isn’t about follow the leader, it’s about competition. If there is no competition then something needs to be done to level the playing field. Nobody wants to watch a race if they allready know the outcome.

Kenny W, using that logic we should all just watch races of people walking around a track. Oh, wait, that wouldn’t be fun? Since cars are more fun to race, lets do that instead! Then racers started making more power and more speed. And this became more fun. And now, a racecar company has made more speed and more power. And now you are saying that if someone is capable of winning…then it isn’t fun? The whole reason racing exists is technological developement, so one team wins over the other.

You should be thankful Audi is pushing technology forward, the rest of the league should be forced to keep up with them, not just change the rules. Audi could always just drop out citing ‘the changing of an entire set of rules and regulations due to our technical proficiency.’ That would be money as hell. If a league wants you to change to adapt to them because of your superiority, drop out and realize you have accomplished more than winning a race.

Didn’t the R8 totally dominate the competition also? Even after the stupid rule changes they still kicked ass, then they got a weight penalty, and still won.

Back in 1992 the rotarys were banned from Le Mans because they had an “unfair” advantage … so the diesels can continue just because it’s “okay” now and the others are too stupid to build competitive cars?
Sounds really fair to me!

Nah, jokes aside, as you might have noticed I’m a bit of a rotary-supporter … anyway:
The R10 isn’t really a problem for Dyson but rather a problem for the ALMS as peter and andrew already hinted. Viewership will decline if the R10 wins the next three years and Dyson could easily engage in other racing series, as far as I know they have a Grand Am-Team … do they?
It’s not easy for the ALMS to provide a level-playing field right now …

Theres plent of competition in the ALMS races, just not with Audi. I like watching the races to see the competition between the other cars, and to watch my beloved Audi crush everyone insurmountably.

Audi is the ****! Everyone else should quit bein puss and just play by the existing rules, JUST LIKE AUDI DID.

hahahah talk about admitting defeat…
You know, lance armstrong had a ‘crushing advantage’ over the rest of the cyclists, so i guess we should let the other riders have engines on their bikes…. you know… to level out the playing field.

About diesel emissions.

Total emissions tend to be lower, although you have a different balance between pollutant classes. You may consult this link: http://tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-5.html

not a good comparison Pakmann. Anyone could duplicate Lance’s workouts but not his heart and stamina. not the same in motorsports. If the other teams had millions to spend on totally new tech (to them) they could all go diesel and take many years to do it. The point is not about the tech, its about the competition and keeping the fans interested. Everyone likes to see a close race and that is what the governing body is all about. They are doing the right thing based on what their mission is.
This is not new, it has always been the case in motorsports on every level.
And the ‘penalized’ team always complains. It is tradition, like the manager arguing a call with an umpire, everyone knows the ruling wont change but they argue it anyway.

The point of disallowing Audi to run the diesel R10, or to hinder it with added weight etc. is NOTHING NEW. About 3 or 4 years ago the BMW M3 was the most successful car on the circuit as well (sorry, I forget which race series, all I know it was here in North America). So, the following year the governing body changed the rules with a month to go before the start of the season, to essentially ban BMW M3s (GTR’s) from competing in it.
What it essentially boils down to is the fan base, and in that regard, sponsorship. If the fans are going to know that a certain car is only going to win (in this case the Audi R10), then they stop watching on TV, etc. and the sponsors get pissed off, because they aren’t getting value for their advertising dollar.
I can pretty much guarantee that every sponsor (except for the Audi sponsors) petitioned the governing body to disallow the R10.
On a side note – Ferrari has won the F1 constructors championship for the past six seasons… F1, they claim, is starting to lose its popularity, among fans, because Schumacher always has the edge (partly skill; partly technology)… I can see the FIA (governing body) starting to seriously consider changing the rules for Ferrari, the same way they did in the early 90’s when Ayrton Senna was constantly winning with Renault — that resulted in the banning of Traction-control systems from Formula 1. It also helped for those damn tree-huggers and Greenpeace idiots say that ‘racing car advancements lead to road car advacements’ simply isn’t true.

you can change the rules before the game starts but not during the game. didn’t we all learn this around 7 yrs old.

Here is what the dyson guy said ….we’re queers, audi rules and we need to cheat to keep up.

ALMS great way to stamp out ingenuity. How about you just turn it into another nascar…… don’t we all love nascar.

Anonymous… there are a fair amount of diesle cars in England MANY more than here in America… SO their resperatory problems are caused moreso by diesle fuel/pollution.
Yeah change the rules because you aren’t technologically advanced enough to keep up… really smart…

finally some common sense. too many hyperventilating about this. It happens all the time and is not that big of a deal. the whole point of racing is competetion. I dont want to see jets racing agains props and I dont want to see engines with obvious advantages in configuration dominate a good race series. I want as many cars and teams on the track as possible. if Audi is allowed to continue unfettered then those without the bucks are going to drop out and thus the series will die just like IMSA and the Camel GT in the 80’s. That was a fantastic series ruined by major manufacturers willing to spend anything to dominate the series (Nissan). All the privateers fell out and it was so bad that there were only 5 or so prototype cars running the top division.

Thanks for the clarification, Andrew – I couldn’t have articulated it better, and Fatstrat, the same applies for yourself as well.
I also agree that while I don’t want to see a truly unfair race, I believe that the best technology should prevail. In thhis case, I absolutely commend Audi for taking the chance on a diesel engine, especially when last year’s gasoline engine, in the R8 was a great car. Audi could have easily rested on its laurels and simply tweaked the car for this year, but they took the risk with diesel, and proved the technology works. I simply think its truly unfair of the governing body to hamper them with restrictions, when they spent the time to research and develop the technology.
After the whole TCS (Traction Control System) fiasco that I mentioned earlier, in F1 from the early 90s, I truly believe that automotive technology fell back quite a few number of years. While I am realistic and don’t believe that we’re going to be driving around in cars the equivalent of F1 cars 20 years from now, the lessons learned from racing (F1, LeMans, ALMS, and FIA World Rally) can be directly seen in today’s production cars – eg’s include F1 – vehicle aerodynamics; LeMans – greater parts and engine dependibility; ALMS – same as LeMans, but closer to factory-spec cars; and World Rally – the fantastic AWD systems we see from companies such as Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Audi.
Additionally, racing’s proving grounds help to develop better engine oils, tires, and even windshield-washer fluid.
It’s a shame to think that now that the Audi R10 has been restricted, perhaps this is going to put a damper on Audi’s diesel entrant in next year’s season — if that’s the case, than what possible technological advancements might we miss out on???

Why is ALMS punishing the winners for being too advanced? Why help the losers by giving them more gas and less weight? ALMS needs to STRONGLY encourage other competitors to follow Audi’s path and develop more efficient and technologically advanced racecars.

SOTRAIN – read my first comment (about six or seven up from this one) and then read down from there – it might explain it a bit…

Audi is really not that good, they just have so much more money than the other teams. If the other teams were factory backed we wouldn’t even have this issue

Sean,
I’m all for technological advancement, but I’m not for boring sports. The ALMS isn’t banning the Audi, they aren’t making it any slower, they’re not trying to stifle Audi’s devolopment, the ONLY thing they’re trying to do is give Audi’s competitors a chance to actually compete. Allowing them to carry an extra 5L of fuel & shed a few pounds will make the races that much more exciting. This isn’t something like in F1 where all engine devolopment is being halted for a few years, this is simply balancing the equation.

Excelent points Dr*Manhatten. I also think that it will probably push Audi even further to overcome the new restrictions. I think you are correct about a lull in motorsports technology in general recently as well.
I also think that Audi has been in the sport long enough, and has experienced this enough times that they knew it was going to happen. Their feigned outrage is just for show. Other teams will eventually keep up. I just want them to keep the competetion close in the meantime.