Yeah, which one do we care about less.

Great, that’s all we need are more diesel vehicles polluting everything. If people would read about the pollution all across Europe, AND the health effects caused by Diesel, they would be a little more concerned about this. The problem is so bad in Europe, that you can actually taste the diesel in the air. There are respiratory illness problems all over the larger cities and it has been directly linked to diesel fuel, which powers most of their cars and trucks. This is not something that I have just read about, but have recently seen while traveling. The air in Paris, Berlin and several other major cities rivals L.A. on a really bad day. There are reasons that several European car manufacturers are no longer going to import diesel powered cars to the USA… They won’t pass our emission standards.

By the way, I (#2) don’t drive a hybrid either, but a highly efficient gasoline internal-combustion engine vehicle that passes emissions more cleanly than most of the new “environmentally friendly” vehicles… a Porsche 928 with 110,000 miles. It isn’t the mileage that cars get, but the efficiency of the engine that dictates their impact on the environment. Besides, how much fun would a Prius or an Insight be to drive?

I want to be able to get one of those cool ultra-torquey high mpg German diesels over here. We can’t due to the stupid laws.

We are losing the Jetta TDI next year. BMW will not import some of its best cars over here.

Hybrids are at their best in a heavy urban cycle, unless you are basically a cab in NY City, then a diesel will give you a better deal.

My 1971 Datsun 510 with a cheap-ish $1,500 modern fuel injected engine swap leaves my parents house in San Jose, and asks for only 10 more gallons upon arrival in LA… 35+ mpg. Nuff said. Gas works fine if the car is small and light! Right Mr. Chapman?!(My ‘68 Roadrunner I plan on building will recieve a similar diet/modern F.I. iron and do the same thing!!)

j!

I have to go with diesel on this one. The advances on that type of engine are amazing! Not only do you get amazing milage, but great passing power (if you have ever driven a Prius you will know that on the highway when the gas motor is running, you have to PLAN to pass something!) and fast 0-60 times. SOme diesels in BMW models are actually FASTER than the petrol versions. As for commenter of #2 & #3 your comment on how they pollute and are dirty is the kind of myth Americans still have about diesels. They are actually about as clean as petrol powered cars. And in the long run, you will not have to replace a VERY expensive battery pack to power your car like on the hybrids. Which means hybrid cars in 10 yrs time will be only good enough to go into a recycling bin since it will cost to much for people buying a preowned car to afford to replace the batteries (Batteries will cost more than the value of the car) so it’s DIESEL FOR ME! : )

Yeah, Diesel is the way to go. Hybrids are just a lame excuse to hold onto crappy small gasoline engines which should’ve powered a lawnmower to begin with…

The cost of a hyprid is stupid in the first place. Diesels all the way.

Diesel please…
For all you dumbo’s with your Prius’ on pedastals were do the junk batteries go when they need to be replaced soon… Do you know how hard it is to recycle batteries? Nevermind the work needed so they don’t become a big ‘ol BIO-HAZARD.

I want TORQUE, great milage and smart technology….
come 2008, gimme a New HIGH PROFORMANCE VW Diesel.

Thank You,
Mother Earth

As a technician at a dealer which services both diesels and hybrid vehicles, I have to lean toward the hybrid. Simply put, diesels smell, even if they can pass the U.S. emissions tests, including CO, and NOX, they still have a ton of particulate emissions; yes diesels are efficient and durable with maintence, but the smell doesn’t do it for me. As for biodiesel not smelling as poorly as regular diesel, it does not have the cetane or lubricity necessary in some cases to run correctly; as may of the electronically controlled fuel injectors are lubricated not only by high pressure oil, but also the fuel.

Bring diesel and hybrids to the States and have them both compete. This is goodnews for hybrids and diesel fans alike. Competition will accelerate the pace of innovation.

As for me, diesels make a compelling case, but if what Leftlanenews says about Toyota’s plans for a 94mpg hybrid, that’s not pluggable is true, I think hybrids will win out.

Overall, I just want a car that gets over 70mpg and doesn’t take forever to get to 60mph. So far, the Prius comes close.

Regarding recyling of batteries, I don’t see why this would be difficult. 80-90% of lead acid batteries are already recycled. And used to make new batteries or for other things. 60% of a lead-acid battery comes from recycled material. Similar figures will probably exist for rechargeable batteries, once the government puts them in place. It’s not a question of chemistry. (It could, however, be a question of fiscal, or chemical “economics”.)

Finally, diesel production cars have been around for a very long time. Hybrid production cars have been around for a very short period in comparison. Given that perpsective, I think hybrids have done admirably, and I expect them to surpass diesels at the rate they are going.

Again, unless you are an investor, who cares what technology wins. What matters is the consumer wins out in the long run.

To Toy Yoda, Nickel-Metal-Hydride (NiMH) is being used for hybrid batteries instead of lead acid to reduce the weight and deliver more energy from a smaller package. Problem is however, this type of battery at this time is very hard to recycle and is also very “potent” meaning a health hazard…. So that is why I am against these type cars….it may not be pollutng the air, but its batteries can cause a future bio-hazard if they are not dealt with properly. I agree with you however, consumers will win because we will be offered A CHOICE! YAY! I am excited and hope VW will bring out thier excellent Euro Diesels here finally…maybe even BMW and Mercedes and Audi as well…

hybrids suck. Figure the total costs… it doesn’t compute. Diesels are a good short / medium term solution but the US goverment seems to not want us to have them. BTW remember when diesel was cheaper then regular why is it more expensive than premium now? Politics and money grubbing is my guess.

Hybrids are ok for city driving with lots of stop and go, but on the other hand after a few minutes the battery are dead anyway. I just recently wrote that the euro Prius has a special button for a more electric mode for city driving, but it looks like Toyota is thinking we are too stupid for that, maybe we are as our driving style is just perfect for Diesel, but we missed that track. They have high torque (SUV, pulling trailers, cruising long distance) but instead we used this high sulfur Diesel and probably polluted the air with this few vehicles more as Europe did with millions of them. Probably it wouldn’t be necessary to import any oil (at least for transportation) if we had the European diesel/gas engine selling rate (50/50).It might be not too late. Lets have the mix, hybrid, e85, diesel, biodiesel, but I think Diesel is the most important.

That is not very true about diesel emissions.

Europe is having a more balanced approach to emissions and energy safety. The more recent diesels in the European market are very advanced and they comply with very strict emission regulations like EURO6.

There are other market forces to explain the success of diesels in Europe, for example:

If you have to pay around 6$ per gallon what car would you choose assuming a similar price?
A – Diesel car with 272hp, 560Nm of torque and 45mpg.
B – Gas car with 200hp with 180Nm of torque and 20mpg.

If you have chosen (A) you also get as a bonus:

-Slightly Higher NOx emissions; BUT!!!! you also get

-Less CO2 emissions – A important one if you believe that Global warming is a bad thing (sea level rising, more frequent hurricanes, etc);
-Less CO emissions;
-Less benzene emissions (a very powerful carcinogen);
-Less emissions of alkenes (e.g., ethene), carbonyls (e.g., formaldehyde), and semivolatiles like polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs, many of which are known or suspected carcinogens).
-Less dangerous particles (although more visible because of their greater size) because you can use a cheaper DPF as is now becoming more common in Europe.

The emission levels from diesel engines tend to remain more-or-less constant throughout the useful life of the engine, whereas gasoline engines have many more emission-related components, which deteriorate and lead to higher and higher emissions, as the engine gets older and drift from stochiometric equilibrium.

The debate of hybrids vs diesels is irrelevant. Why? Because the best solution is hybrid diesel. Peugeot-Citroen has come up with the first true hybrid diesel system, and it combines the best of both worlds.

Remember that a hybrid is a mix of two technologies.

Petrol hybrid = petrol engine + electric motors.

Diesel hybrid = diesel engine + electric motors.

Electric power is NOT the ENEMY of either petrol or diesel technology. It’s actually a helpful friend.

I agree with you Conan. The reason why in gas hybrids are not being successful in Europe is that they don’t offer a very interesting and consistent mileage compared with modern diesels. It would be different with a diesel hybrid where you could multiply the effects of the two technologies, that’s the right pathway. I hope my next BMW would be a hybrid diesel, maybe I would improve my actual 50mpg to 80mpg or more and still have lots of fun.

MH is so right!!! I live in Belgium (Europe) more than half the cars here are diesels and no it doesn’t smell like diesel here. In fact modern diesels have a particle filter. You can hang a white napkin for you’re exhaust and it will stay white. My dad drives a BMW 525d. He works in Germany and travels all around Europe. He does 100.000 km/year. In Germany he often drives at top speed that’s about 250 km/h if you use premium diesel. His car has an average consumption of 8 litre for 100 km. I assume the average American car doesn’t even come close to that. Not even are modern diesels cleaner they also use a lot less fuel than gasoline engines. And believe me they are fun to drive and no they don’t sound like an old tractor.
Don’t just say things, know were you talk about!!!

OK, I got tired of reading all the other comments after seeing dirty, smelly etc a few times. So if others have already said this…maybe it will sink in this time! :p

1 – LOW SULFUR DIESEL WILL BE HERE WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR (by LAW like lead-unlead gas changeover)
2 – WITH UREA INJECTION DIESELS CAN ACTUALLY RUN “CLEANER” THAN GAS CARS
3 – WITH PARTICULATE TRAPS THAT “BLACK CLOUD” OUT THE TAILPIPE IS A THING OF THE PAST
(4 – Europe’s pollution problems have very little to do with their affinity for diesel. Think population density, historicaly under-regulated emissions of EVERYTHING not just cars (i.e industry), THE WIDESPREAD USE OF COAL POWERPLANTS, etc)

Sorry for all the yelling but I had to get some of you to look up from your puddle of drool on the floor.

So to summarize: the US should be able to enjoy the benefits of diesel cars in the near future (even if they dissappear for a year in the meantime), and if we could get all the fear-mongering “enviromentalist” hippies to realize nuclear is the way to go for our energy future we could have cleaner air in our lifetime.

Harvey,

Thanks for your comment. I really have to improve my English.

MH

hybrid cars are topgear best jokes.
they might be cleaner but they do half the mileage of diesel engines.

JaggedXJ: thank you for 0wning the snobs. Very well said.

Hey Karl Witch auto brand do you tech for seeing how there is no one brand that builds bolth. And after selling about 100 dissels cars in my life I dont seen any advantage with a hybrid seeing how they lose mpg in the long run were dissels get better. And unless you stand behing the car while idling for ten minutes your not going to notice the smell.

I completely forsee all these Hybrids being pariahs on the used car lots once they start stacking up with 100k or so on the clock. How much will a future comsumer pay for a car that will need a major investment in new batteries soon when they will be able to get a used Corolla/Civic and just drive it till the wheels fall off?

Diesel is 100 times better than hybrid technology. The battery has been expected to **** out eventually, while most diesels ive seen are running great even into 300,000 miles. They get just as good mileage, cost the same premium as hybrids, sound more badass, and on top of that they have gobs of torque to actually provide something fun to drive, rather than those bread boxes they call hybrids. And my dad has a hybrid. Its awful. So dont say i dont know what im talking about. I just wish i could get rid of my 1.8t for a nice diesel A4. The Audi R10 TDI should have proven what diesel technology is capable of by now. Give me diesel anyday.

I’d go for diesel over gas-hybrid, and diesel-hybrid is better yet. Real-world results for gas-hybrids just aren’t living up to the hype.

I think with the advent of low-sulfer fuel that much of the American prejudice will go away. I also feel that biodiesel is a much better “green” alternative than ethanol. Better energy efficiency in use and in creation, as well as being easier to transport.

Oh, and we should be building more nuclear plants and encouraging plug-in EVs.

I will vote with my pocketbook for diesels and hybrid-diesels. Biodiesel is the fuel E85 wishes it could be and biodiesel can be made from a HUGE variety of feedstocks (soy, algae, used grease to name just a few) and in fact has MORE lubricity (engine lubricating ability) than petrol diesel. Bring on the diesels asap!