DrFool is crapping his pants

Dr. Fill is counting his coins. It is remarkable that company which did not exist 20 years ago is being chased by patriarch of sport cars. Maybe Lexus cars are blend for this forum (I don’t know why exactly, perhaps Lexus/Toyota salesmen are busy with customers while competition is complaining here) but public is buying those cars.

Well once those hideous 2010 updates come out for the Lexus’s they’ll certainly drop right off.

IS C is too ugly. I’d rather get 3-series convertible or even a 135i cabrio. ACtually, not too surprised since BMW has introduced the new Z4, X6, 1-series, and new M3 to drive customers into their dealerships. What has Lexus done? The IS C……ewwwwww….

You can do it BMW. You have more exciting products than Lexus. Give Lexus the title, “the most boring car in America!”…lol.

There’s a reason why Lexus sell so well, because they are quality albeit boring, middle of the road luxury vehicles that appeal to common people. They sell for the same reason the Camry does, most people don’t want excitement in a vehicle, they just want a comfortable car with some class. Lexus offers a little more practicality and comfort for a lower price while BMW leans towards performance while charging more for creature comforts. I am biased towards BMW (having owned 3 in my life and loved every single one of them), but will be the first to say that Lexus makes quality vehicles, just not my style.

am not a bmw fan but i would never take a lexus over a bimmer. but Audi > bimmers soon

Somebody please shoot me but I’m about to say this before the Doc and in this one instance he’s probably right. How many models does BMW offer? And Lexus? I don’t want to compile an actual list as I may want to eat, sleep, drink or sh*t at some point in the day but off the top of my head I think it’s safe to say the ratio is something like 2-1 in BMW’s favor.

Fear not, another 2 or 3 more useless crossover/SUV/midlifecrisis thingies and they’ll be right there.

but is bmw increasing sales by shotgunning the market with models of every shape and size imaginable? you realize if you’re cheering for bmw to pass lexus you’re cheering for sales of those horrible misshapen crosstour things and not just M3s, right? i mean, ew….bmw is certainly not innocent in the war on car style ;P

Johnny, you forgot to mention sex in your account of daily activities, but I hope you get some (eventually).

On account of model numbers I think BMW and Lexus are neck in neck. Lexus has 3 CUV/SUV and so is BMW and both offer 4 cars is US ( I think the same number in Canada).

I love how the pics LLN chooses for their stories are almost completely irrelevant to the article. They just pull a random BMW picture up. How bout post a photo of a BMW dealer? Something to do with car sales. Not an M3 racing around a track. What does that have to do with anything?

a guy named “bmwmpower” complains that the pic is of an M3 on a track? wow…i’ve seen everything now…

johnnycanuck if Toyota built more model that could be re-badged then Lexus would get more models.

bmwmpower, forgive me for the spoiler alert, but the car in the picture is a BMW, and the article is about BMW’s, so I feel thats probably a pretty strong connection.

Perhaps the adage “all good things must come to an end” is true after all…

BMW needs to get to 40 models to beat Lexus
They will get there and eventually win a title
DrFill

This is very important to BMW, as you can tell
Much more so than Lexus
DrFill

Futurezero; If non-excitement is waht people are looking for in a car then I guess Volvo would take the crown instead of BMW.

go BMW

bmwmpower= MISERABLE FAIL

so, worldwide who sells more ?

BMW: X3, X5, X6
Lexus: RX, LX, GX

BMW: 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, Z4
Lexus: HS, IS, ES, GS, LS, SC

BMW: M cars
Lexus: hybrids

tell me again that BMW is flooding the market? Did I miss a car or two?

Yeah
About 30 models
There are like a dozen different 3-series
There is one Lexus HS and one ES
DrFill

If those overpriced foyota’s were priced similarly to bmw’s, then aint no way none of those o.f.’s would out sell bmw on this planet [maybe on the planet that bizarro comes from--MAYBE]. So its more of a price issue, but bmw can do that…cause there bmw, like benz is benz.

Foyota is pushin it though wit tha price seein if they could get away wid it…you probably thats what it is. There looked at a gs, compared it to the comp, n said, “what tha…its off to bmw we go! Though some of those bimmer designs is slippin in they pimpin…I must say.

The reason Lexus still on top over the BMW was their car built with reliablity luxury car division. If we trace back to the history then BMW should be on top because of it age. Lexus is smart to back of their used Certify Car for 3 yrs 100,000miles warrenty were BMW only offer 4yrs 50,000miles. This is why I choose Lexus LS460L over 750Li because luxury car is not cheap to fix. How would you spend 50 thousand plus for used car and still have to worry about problem especially electronic stuff. Don’t get me wrong here, I love the way 750Li drive and handle. However after doing intense research from both car then it would be a wise choice to pick Lexus. I don’t care what people kepting saying about Lexus drive is boring bc of it soft suspension. If you are doing a lot of 100mile plus road trip then you will appreciated.

Exactly Doc. Saying the 3-Series counts for one model is like saying anything with Trojan on the label must fit the same.

trojans do all fit the same, way too small /flex

I wear them on my left leg when I’m driving an automatic just to give it false hope.

**** this BMW, I will buy only Acura and their can openers!

Dr fill
How is the number of the models rellevant? Instead of producing 1000 IS, Bmw is building 300 3 coupe, 100 hardtops, 500 sedans and 100 stations. What excactly is their unfair advantage? That they make different variations for different tastes? Bmw CAN do this, so your problem must be that Lexus hasn’t made it yet.

Just a matter of profitability, efficiency, and the economics of their business
GM has 3 times the dealers Toyota does, but sells almost the same number of vehicles
And they use 6 product lines to 3
I’m not patting them on the back for selling more cars than Toyota
They SHOULD sell more
DrFill

2TellUTheTruth is right , it’s all about the price , lots of people buy luxury cars for the image, any luxury car would do, so they go for the cheapest. it’s the same in Europe , some choose the basic BMW 316 with no options just to have a luxury car parked in front of their house.

and why is bmw closing in on the buick like lexus. well, because lexus has become buick like with boring soft cars designed for people 60 and over. lexus has lost its edge on making unique vehicles that stand out from the rest. 15 years ago lexus had something. now they just have lease vehicles for the retired folk. even hyundai has a couple of models that can compete and even surpass lexus in style and cost. bmw is the best luxury brand in a field of many. i work in a hospital and almost every the doctors start talking about cars, someone mentions lexus. and almost everytime, the majority of people say they build boring cars. that was a car people drove 10 or 15 years ago.

Johnny, why would YOU need to know about Trojans? You want to share extra curriculum experience?

Nice damage control, Dr Fill! Very nice indeed. Where were you in the spin room when John McCain needed you?

Ok, back on topic. Lexus is losing because they are boring, unexciting, and uninspiring. It’s like a bad dream and only going to get worse. Turn around time on this is 3-5 years minimum. Hasta la vista, Lexus!

Borat, what the hell are you talking about half the time?

And Dr Fill is a jackass, his comments have become about as relevant as 1115’s and all he does is spank off Toyota with a pair of tweezers. His biased bullsh!t is getting severely old and redundant. We get it, youre boring. You probably stay up on current events with Fox News as well.

yea, i’m sure it’s the 3 and 5 series wagons that are pushing BMW over the top in the US.

The IS has a convertible now too, and an F model. All it’s missing is the conventional coupe.

Anyone else out there, besides me, think that BMW and LEXUS should be at the top to begin with? I mean, you have, what is conceived to be the best handling luxury car, and the most reliable luxury car. They should equal out because what they have, the other one doesn’t. It seems perfectly fine to me for them to be even at sales.

Also, I don’t know if this is true or not, but, since a lexus vehicle is known to last longer, one doesn’t buy a lexus over and over again, you would buy a bmw over again because it won’t last. I know many people that lease their bmws, then buy it out with an extended warranty, and then sell it right before the warranty runs out. I also know friends who own lexus vehicles who are still on their first lexus with more than 100k miles and don’t have any problems. Get what I’m trying to say though??

what happened to dr.filled ass. did he pick up a second shift at burger king to pay for his speeding ticket he got in his moms corolla?

Please stop.
BMW is and has been the tup selling luxury car in the U.S.

Just stop!

ToxicNut: “johnnycanuck if Toyota built more model that could be re-badged then L—s would get more models.” Yep.

A4
We get it
Your dumb and hate well-run, successful companies like Toyota
Which 2nd-rate loser do you back again?

ALS
I didn’t get in my Mom’s Corolla
I got in your Mom’s pants!
Now I know why they call it Labor Day!

Have a Happy Holiday!
DrFill

“There’s a reason why Lexus sell so well, because they are quality albeit boring, middle of the road luxury vehicles that appeal to common people.”

We’re talking business and they’re making more $ than the competition and is making the sales. Not to defend them but I think they’re the smart one.

Veda , the smart one must be BMW because they sell more globally.

Lexus’ goal was to take over America
The #1 luxury market
They did it in less than a decade
BMW can have the minor leagues
Until Lexus is ready to take them too
DrFill

dr.filled–
you could be right on this one. the very large group of americans 65 years and older, with that group growing every year. lexus has set them selves up for that bracket of the population. the lexus lineup is built for that generation of buyers with their boring, soft, buick like vehicles. they will have to make a change in their game plan in the next 10 years with more up to date products for people that actually know things about cars. but for now, lexus is doing just fine with the 65 years and older group.

A reasonably intelligent post out of you?
I’m impressed

FYI, most luxury car buyers are 40+
Just because you drive a car that is based on performance, that doesn’t mean you are any smarter or know more than any other buyer
A 40 year old is more likely to buy a BMW
At some point they will want softer leather, better interiors, smoother ride, and superior service

The LF-A and IS-F show Lexus can do anything any other luxury maker can do
Maybe even better
Time will reveal Lexus has the situation well in hand
DrFill

when did lexus start losing the young professional group. i remember back in the 90’s lexus was the car to have if you had a good job and some money to spend. now, almost everytime is see a lexus its a gray haired person driving it and going 5 mph under the speed limit. bmw, mercedes, and audi seem to have taken over the young perfessional crowd. lexus had turned out to be the car your parents or grandparents own. maybe they are tired of being nickled and dimed at the dealers. yet, i really don’t care how reliable lexus is, they just look like an old persons car now. and that new small corolla lexus hybrid is a complete joke.

It’s just the matter of time. Later, Cheaper and greener will win.

Those buyers who helped build the company 20 years ago, are still buying Lexus, religiously
More competition, new technologies, and Lexus not fixing what isn’t broke provides similar results
But doesn’t attract young buyers
Cars, like computers, as so much better than they were when Lexus came out and revolutionized the market
Now even Hyundai is building cars worth considering

Lexus being so popular is also a detriment

Lexus’ problem is Toyota’s problem
If Toyota builds a Supra or Celica or MR2, they can be the best car of their kind
But people don’t go to Toyota, or Lexus, for great sports cars

Just like people don’t go to Hyundai for great luxury cars

Public perception is reality
Lexus can build super sports cars, but they probably won’t sell a lot
Lexus is typecast
Putting a stick in the IS350 would help
DrFill

Is it really surprising there are huge numbers of people who like great handling and huge numbers of people who like isolation and smooth driving over downshifting into corners and feeling every expansion strip in the pavement for level handling in turns ? Who cares who nudges ahead of who for awhile, it goes back and forth and probably always will. If the demographics is changing with the baby boomers we’ll see who true BMW is to its roots when the people with the most disposable income grows. I hope they do, as the race to number one sales is not a good way to be focused on a market niche buyers can count on when they trade their car in the next time.

the is350 is probably the only lexus i have seen with a driver under the age of 50.
not sure on your idea of hyundai not being a luxury car. the genesis sedan is one hell of a car. and its something that competes with infiniti and lexus for $30k less. and being cheap is in these days.

The Genesis is my point

Hyundai needs to decide what Kia’s brand image is
What Hyundai’s brand image is

This $30-60k luxury car binge didn’t work for VW, and it won’t work for them
Maybe they have money to waste
Selling 20k luxury units a year through HYundai

They could sell twice that if they grew a pair and made a luxury marque
Acura, Lincoln, Saab, Jaguar
THere are a lot of weak luxury companies who really need to be eliminated by a new Tier 2 luxury competitor

If Hyundai had half a brain, they’d build a luxury line, and target those weak marques with these two cars

Next generation, go after the big boys

They don’t want to put in the time and money
They could EASILY be the next Lexus
But they are lazy and want to do it on the cheap
The Hyundai way
THAT’S WHAT PISSES ME OFF

Hyundai will NEVER be Toyota/Lexus
They have the talent
But won’t follow Toyota’s ultra-successful model
They’d rather follow VW’s failed model
They are cheap, lazy, and not to bright
No balls
No brains

Have talent
But are afraid to spread their wings

Toyota has balls as big as grapefruits
Lexus, Rav4, Lexus RX, Prius, TPS in the US
That’s why I always back them up
Smart, talented, innovative
Will invest IN THEMSELVES
Not afraid of a fight in a new market
Always see 5-10 years ahead

Hyundai could do that
But they won’t do it

Hyundai has A LOT to learn
They aren’t half the company Toyota is
They have talent
But so does Honda
So does Nissan
Toyota is special

Disrespecting Toyota as a carmaker is like calling Madonna some old lady who sings
You have to look at the last 30 years, where they came from
People in the business, the world over, know who the best company is
It’s not even a question
DrFill

I’m mostly worring if you are worth it Fill. But since i have time to spare… Here we go:

“The LF-A and IS-F show Lexus can do anything any other luxury maker can do
Maybe even better”
Sorry. Is-f clearly lost from the M3 as not being equally refined. Check every comparison there to comfirm it. The Lf-a isn’t out yet but according to a reporter from Autocar That tested the racing version it will cost 290 000 euros. About 400k $! 500hp from a 5L V10 at 9000rpm. Impresive? Not that much. Italia will have 570 from a V8 500cc smaller, at the same rpm. And will probably cost less. Too late for the 6 year old car.

“Cars, like computers, as so much better than they were when Lexus came out and revolutionized the market”
Lexus the revolutioner, practically, doesn’t exist in Europe. You can’t make a revolution if you’re not even there, i’m afraid. And a question for you: what technology made it’s first in a Lexus, ever? Apart from applying Prius’s hybrid system. And an other one: is there anything in the entire history (lol) of Lexus that amazed you?

“They could sell twice that if they grew a pair and made a luxury marque”
How does putting a badge in your product grows ball for you?

“They don’t want to put in the time and money
They could EASILY be the next Lexus
But they are lazy and want to do it on the cheap
The Hyundai way
THAT’S WHAT PISSES ME OFF”
Koreans of today are the japanese of the late 80’s. Nothing more, nothing less. They copy others because creating things costs to much and takes lot of talent and RISK. Toyota has quit risk long time ago. So what is this crap that they are lazy? Is Toyota lazy, too, for not bringing turbocharged engines or multilink suspension to Corola?

“Hyundai will NEVER be Toyota/Lexus
They have the talent
But won’t follow Toyota’s ultra-successful model”
Should i repeat it again? Koreans are what japanese were 2 decades ago. Japanese copied, Koreans copy. Hyundai is right in toyota’s tracks doing exactly what they were doing. Huyndai never be toyota? So far toyota is exactly what Huyndai is. Copy and provide in lower price. Japanese’s game for years.

“They’d rather follow VW’s failed model
They are cheap, lazy, and not to bright
No balls
No brains”
How’s Vw failed? If it wasn’t toyota’s OLD reputation of being super-reliable (like others aren’t) it would have been extinct from the European district! No balls? No brains? Failed busness model? Are we still comparing Vw to Toyota? Every European Toyota has outdated technology, even from it’s presentation!

“Toyota has balls as big as grapefruits
Lexus, Rav4, Lexus RX, Prius, TPS in the US
That’s why I always back them up
Smart, talented, innovative
Will invest IN THEMSELVES
Not afraid of a fight in a new market
Always see 5-10 years ahead”
The Rx is a crossover, nothing special and the tps, also nothing new. A Rav4 in the 90’s and a Prius in the 00’s is all the greatness they can make, inspite being one of the largest companies of the world all this time. Everything else is sold cause it won’t brake down not because it’s something great.
New cars always dominate their category, except from corrola and avensis, which still are mediocre and boring from their launch! Magazines always say “they are Toyota and this means a lot for the family man who wants no worries and don’t care for driving, so it’s ok if they aren’t anything special”.
That’s Toyota. That’s what they sell. The reputation of reliability. Which of course means complete absence of innovation, but you can’t expect from the average consumer to notice that.

“People in the business, the world over, know who the best company is”
Take as granted that i live in a country that doesn’t produce (and support) it’s own cars and taxes all the competitors equally, american, european or japanese. Terrible roads and a mediocre average income complete a rather hard proving ground in wich Lexus has totally failed. Is this global success in your opinion?
(And don’t start with the they-don’t-care-about-your-market story, because Lexus has tried and if they didn’t care they wouldn’t. Either Bmw or Benz would.)

Greek
To coincide with the numerous errors in your rebuttal…………

When you said Koreans (aka Hyundai) are doing what Toyota 20 years ago, you lost all credibility
Not that you had a stack to begin with
You have exposed yourself as someone truly Missing In Action

And now
A moment of silence…………
DrFill

No answers, right Fill?

I said a moment of silence………….
DrFill

DrFill got owned.

Way to pay attention
Can you provide any proof?
DrFill

yes, and more yes. hyundai is what toyota was 20 years ago.
and toyota is now what gm was 20 years ago. they think they are to big to fall. well gm is falling because they made soft, boring cars. as is that toyota has done the last few years.
recall after recall toyota is losing its edge. and with its boring ass slow soft cars they will be the next gm.

Wow!
Ok
I took for granted everyone here was over 20 years old, and remembered life in 1989, but I guess not, so……….time to open our history books, and end this charade from the undereducated.

Here goes nothing

Toyota opened the first Lexus sales/dealerships for business September 1st, 1989, selling 2919 Lexus LS400s, starting at $35000, in their first month in business
(Has Hyundai developed any luxury car networks, or even premium Hyundai dealerships?)

Ok

GM was still making Chevy S-10s, Pontiac Fieros, Cadillac Cimarrons, and GM C/K pickups that exploded on impact due to poorly designed gas-tank locations (One the side of the truck, outside of the frame rails), and cars of virtually zero quality (I know, I drove many of them at the time!)
Even the Corvette was an unlovable, embarassing heap
And that was their flagship!

Meanwhile……….
Toyota Cressida was the “Best-built car sold in America” for years, until the Lexus LS replaced it

Currently, you will not find a maker with superior quality, or safer cars in crashes, than Toyota
Lexus doesn’t make anything as bad as Cimarron (fortunately, no one does), and Toyota STILL makes the highest-quality car in America, which is STILL the Lexus LS

By the Fall of 1991, the LS400 (1989), the Lexus SC400 (1991), and Toyota Camry/Lexus ES300 (1991), it was clear that Toyota had established a new order in the US market, with the styling, quality, and market coverage no other market could match then, or since.

Meanwhile……………
GM made BAD cars, not boring cars
Fiero, Allante, Camaro/Firebird, Baretta, etc were exciting cars (in their time)………
but bad cars!

Hyundai has proven they aren’t smart enough, or bold enough, to slow Toyota, or Lexus, in this country

I am glad Hyundai is so poorly managed, so short of thought, because if they had any guts, or brains, they would be a legitimate threat
But they don’t, so…….

(Now I know why it’s called Labor Day weekend
Teaching you guys about the car market, and it’s history, is like giving birth!)
DrFill

dr.filled with crap this time. hyundai went from $3999 cars to $40,000 cars in 20 years. and this is not bold to think they can sell a hyundai for that much money. hyundai has balls that toyota japs could only dream of.
the only bold thing that toyota has done was trying to sell the ls460h. and the local buick lexus dealer in orlando still has 2008 models of this $110,000 dollar buick ls. gm used to have idiots like you bragging about gm products. the japs will have to bail out toyota in the next 10, if they have already not given them millions to compete with the jap dollar. i am not stating that hyundai is the best company. but, dr.filled you have get a clue about other auto makers besides the buick/lexus and toyota.

Good response Fill. No answers, of course, but good response. I was obviously wrong to expect a comment about Europe and Toyota’s presence here – they’re still trying with us. But i appreciate (no sarcasm) your facts about Lexus in the Us. It’s good watching how are things done at the rest of the world.
Of course i disagree with you about Huyndai, but each of us is having it’s own perspective based at very different automotive experiences and tastes…

Greek
If I responded to every error, I’d miss my holiday
My posts are too long this weekend as is

I could give a rat’s tail what happens in Europe, really
I’m an American!

Europe is AAA, a fine league, but minor league
America is the major leagues

Disagreement is fine
But saying Hyundai is what Toyota was is wishful thinking
Toyota had a plan
DrFill

dr.filled with crap.
your cookie cutter responses are freaking boring the **** out of this blog. you just repeat the same crap on every post, with very little knowledge of auto’s outside of the boring brand of toyota.
maybe when you grow up and learn something out of the small box of toyota you will be able to post something that means something.

ALS
I can always trust you to read the blog first, then post…………
We’d all like to thank you for doing that
It has really helped you stand apart from the others
Nice!
DrFill

how come Europe is minor league if the market is bigger ?

If you’re over there, you tell us
I just report the news
DrFill

First time commenter here. DrFill really can suck my ass if he’s propagating the myth that Toyota actually makes cars relevant to the discussion here. They certainly make cars that last, but they also make you fall asleep at the wheel. He, being intent upon pitting an M3 against an IS-F, clearly makes his weak case shown. How can someone seriously have such a devoted and completely mislead view of a company such as Toyota that would allow him to even think for a second that Lexus is making FUN cars? They have someone else to chase first. Honda will (and does) manufacture more enjoyable cars for the money. Lexus is a second rate brand. Just because the majority of luxury buyers in the U.S. are well over middle-aged, or want a car that practically floats around, or are just downright retarded, doesn’t mean that somebody here should fall into the same trap. This is a forum for car brands that actually mean something beyond miles acquired or a free latte with your 100,000 mile service. The cars we enjoy have spirit. And that’s something that Toyota and Lexus sorely lack. SUCK IT!

Who
In the blue hell
R U?

Spoken like someone who has never driven an IS
Or read a review of an IS-F

Broke
No friends
Can’t read

Hey, Impulsive……….
DrFill

I’m someone who doesn’t write in broken verse. Full paragraphs for me. I’m only trying to make sense for the other readers. And I’ve driven an IS. And it was an unpleasant experience, reeking of bitter mechanicals somehow trying to add up to a complete car. It didn’t. You defeat yourself, really, by backing up such indifferent machinery. It’s sad.

Oh, and SUCK IT!

So you are the one person on earth who thinks that way
It’s good to hear that Car and Driver, which sings it’s praises, doesn’t know anything about cars
You know more
I feel so much better

With a name like yours, how can you be wrong?
DrFill

dr.filled with fecal matter
as mr.suckmy-$$$ has stated, the majority of people that like lexus know very little about cars. hence, the middle age elderly population that enjoys lexus. i actually drove an is250 over the weekend. its was ok, but nothing excited me about the car. it still had that cheap jap feel no matter how hard i tried to enjoy the car. maybe the is350 would help the lethergy of the is250. lets just say, it was no 3 series bmw or even ifiniti g37.

CarResearcher:
I meant Lexus, in general, makes boring cars. If I understand what you’re saying correctly, you think that if the most boring cars sell the best, than Volvo should win. I’ll agree with you on that But Volvo can’t touch the reliability of a Toyota product.

GUys

You may not like it but fill has a point.

Toyota/LExus is very successful. Just look.
IF you walk outside and walk a city block, I guarantee you that you will see at LEAST 1 or 2 lexi or toyotas, depending on where you live.

Lexus took over the US luxury market in less than ten years. You have to respect that. They put Cadillac and Lincoln to shame.

All the japanese automakers are successful

I will agree that Lexi and Toyotas are boring. But they are and will be the best (if not, top 2-3) selling automakers for the next 10 years.

You have to understand that not all car buyers are enthusiasts looking for a thrilling car to drive around a racetrack. Most buyers are looking for a car that they can depend on to safely take them to work or take the kids on vacation for a long time.

If a design language sells, then they will make it.

People sometimes buy cars because they are boring. Some people opted for the Camry instead of the Accord because the Accord is “too sporty”.

Be open-minded. Its not all about the enthusiast and never has and never will. Its a fact of life.

Bmw will toss lexus aside just as it does with everyone else