You may not like it but fill has a point.

Toyota/LExus is very successful. Just look.
IF you walk outside and walk a city block, I guarantee you that you will see at LEAST 1 or 2 lexi or toyotas, depending on where you live.

Lexus took over the US luxury market in less than ten years. You have to respect that. They put Cadillac and Lincoln to shame.

All the japanese automakers are successful

I will agree that Lexi and Toyotas are boring. But they are and will be the best (if not, top 2-3) selling automakers for the next 10 years.

You have to understand that not all car buyers are enthusiasts looking for a thrilling car to drive around a racetrack. Most buyers are looking for a car that they can depend on to safely take them to work or take the kids on vacation for a long time.

If a design language sells, then they will make it.

People sometimes buy cars because they are boring. Some people opted for the Camry instead of the Accord because the Accord is “too sporty”.

Be open-minded. Its not all about the enthusiast and never has and never will. Its a fact of life.

With a name like yours, how can you be wrong?
DrFill

Spoken like someone who has never driven an IS
Or read a review of an IS-F

Broke
No friends
Can’t read

Hey, Impulsive……….
DrFill

I could give a rat’s tail what happens in Europe, really
I’m an American!

Europe is AAA, a fine league, but minor league
America is the major leagues

Disagreement is fine
But saying Hyundai is what Toyota was is wishful thinking
Toyota had a plan
DrFill

Here goes nothing

Toyota opened the first Lexus sales/dealerships for business September 1st, 1989, selling 2919 Lexus LS400s, starting at $35000, in their first month in business
(Has Hyundai developed any luxury car networks, or even premium Hyundai dealerships?)

Ok

GM was still making Chevy S-10s, Pontiac Fieros, Cadillac Cimarrons, and GM C/K pickups that exploded on impact due to poorly designed gas-tank locations (One the side of the truck, outside of the frame rails), and cars of virtually zero quality (I know, I drove many of them at the time!)
Even the Corvette was an unlovable, embarassing heap
And that was their flagship!

Meanwhile……….
Toyota Cressida was the “Best-built car sold in America” for years, until the Lexus LS replaced it

Currently, you will not find a maker with superior quality, or safer cars in crashes, than Toyota
Lexus doesn’t make anything as bad as Cimarron (fortunately, no one does), and Toyota STILL makes the highest-quality car in America, which is STILL the Lexus LS

By the Fall of 1991, the LS400 (1989), the Lexus SC400 (1991), and Toyota Camry/Lexus ES300 (1991), it was clear that Toyota had established a new order in the US market, with the styling, quality, and market coverage no other market could match then, or since.

Meanwhile……………
GM made BAD cars, not boring cars
Fiero, Allante, Camaro/Firebird, Baretta, etc were exciting cars (in their time)………
but bad cars!

Hyundai has proven they aren’t smart enough, or bold enough, to slow Toyota, or Lexus, in this country

I am glad Hyundai is so poorly managed, so short of thought, because if they had any guts, or brains, they would be a legitimate threat
But they don’t, so…….

(Now I know why it’s called Labor Day weekend
Teaching you guys about the car market, and it’s history, is like giving birth!)
DrFill

When you said Koreans (aka Hyundai) are doing what Toyota 20 years ago, you lost all credibility
Not that you had a stack to begin with
You have exposed yourself as someone truly Missing In Action

And now
A moment of silence…………
DrFill

“The LF-A and IS-F show Lexus can do anything any other luxury maker can do
Maybe even better”
Sorry. Is-f clearly lost from the M3 as not being equally refined. Check every comparison there to comfirm it. The Lf-a isn’t out yet but according to a reporter from Autocar That tested the racing version it will cost 290 000 euros. About 400k $! 500hp from a 5L V10 at 9000rpm. Impresive? Not that much. Italia will have 570 from a V8 500cc smaller, at the same rpm. And will probably cost less. Too late for the 6 year old car.

“Cars, like computers, as so much better than they were when Lexus came out and revolutionized the market”
Lexus the revolutioner, practically, doesn’t exist in Europe. You can’t make a revolution if you’re not even there, i’m afraid. And a question for you: what technology made it’s first in a Lexus, ever? Apart from applying Prius’s hybrid system. And an other one: is there anything in the entire history (lol) of Lexus that amazed you?

“They could sell twice that if they grew a pair and made a luxury marque”
How does putting a badge in your product grows ball for you?

“They don’t want to put in the time and money
They could EASILY be the next Lexus
But they are lazy and want to do it on the cheap
The Hyundai way
THAT’S WHAT PISSES ME OFF”
Koreans of today are the japanese of the late 80′s. Nothing more, nothing less. They copy others because creating things costs to much and takes lot of talent and RISK. Toyota has quit risk long time ago. So what is this crap that they are lazy? Is Toyota lazy, too, for not bringing turbocharged engines or multilink suspension to Corola?

“Hyundai will NEVER be Toyota/Lexus
They have the talent
But won’t follow Toyota’s ultra-successful model”
Should i repeat it again? Koreans are what japanese were 2 decades ago. Japanese copied, Koreans copy. Hyundai is right in toyota’s tracks doing exactly what they were doing. Huyndai never be toyota? So far toyota is exactly what Huyndai is. Copy and provide in lower price. Japanese’s game for years.

“They’d rather follow VW’s failed model
They are cheap, lazy, and not to bright
No balls
No brains”
How’s Vw failed? If it wasn’t toyota’s OLD reputation of being super-reliable (like others aren’t) it would have been extinct from the European district! No balls? No brains? Failed busness model? Are we still comparing Vw to Toyota? Every European Toyota has outdated technology, even from it’s presentation!

“Toyota has balls as big as grapefruits
Lexus, Rav4, Lexus RX, Prius, TPS in the US
That’s why I always back them up
Smart, talented, innovative
Will invest IN THEMSELVES
Not afraid of a fight in a new market
Always see 5-10 years ahead”
The Rx is a crossover, nothing special and the tps, also nothing new. A Rav4 in the 90′s and a Prius in the 00′s is all the greatness they can make, inspite being one of the largest companies of the world all this time. Everything else is sold cause it won’t brake down not because it’s something great.
New cars always dominate their category, except from corrola and avensis, which still are mediocre and boring from their launch! Magazines always say “they are Toyota and this means a lot for the family man who wants no worries and don’t care for driving, so it’s ok if they aren’t anything special”.
That’s Toyota. That’s what they sell. The reputation of reliability. Which of course means complete absence of innovation, but you can’t expect from the average consumer to notice that.

“People in the business, the world over, know who the best company is”
Take as granted that i live in a country that doesn’t produce (and support) it’s own cars and taxes all the competitors equally, american, european or japanese. Terrible roads and a mediocre average income complete a rather hard proving ground in wich Lexus has totally failed. Is this global success in your opinion?
(And don’t start with the they-don’t-care-about-your-market story, because Lexus has tried and if they didn’t care they wouldn’t. Either Bmw or Benz would.)

Hyundai needs to decide what Kia’s brand image is
What Hyundai’s brand image is

This $30-60k luxury car binge didn’t work for VW, and it won’t work for them
Maybe they have money to waste
Selling 20k luxury units a year through HYundai

They could sell twice that if they grew a pair and made a luxury marque
Acura, Lincoln, Saab, Jaguar
THere are a lot of weak luxury companies who really need to be eliminated by a new Tier 2 luxury competitor

If Hyundai had half a brain, they’d build a luxury line, and target those weak marques with these two cars

Next generation, go after the big boys

They don’t want to put in the time and money
They could EASILY be the next Lexus
But they are lazy and want to do it on the cheap
The Hyundai way
THAT’S WHAT PISSES ME OFF

Hyundai will NEVER be Toyota/Lexus
They have the talent
But won’t follow Toyota’s ultra-successful model
They’d rather follow VW’s failed model
They are cheap, lazy, and not to bright
No balls
No brains

Have talent
But are afraid to spread their wings

Toyota has balls as big as grapefruits
Lexus, Rav4, Lexus RX, Prius, TPS in the US
That’s why I always back them up
Smart, talented, innovative
Will invest IN THEMSELVES
Not afraid of a fight in a new market
Always see 5-10 years ahead

Hyundai could do that
But they won’t do it

Hyundai has A LOT to learn
They aren’t half the company Toyota is
They have talent
But so does Honda
So does Nissan
Toyota is special

Disrespecting Toyota as a carmaker is like calling Madonna some old lady who sings
You have to look at the last 30 years, where they came from
People in the business, the world over, know who the best company is
It’s not even a question
DrFill

Lexus being so popular is also a detriment

Lexus’ problem is Toyota’s problem
If Toyota builds a Supra or Celica or MR2, they can be the best car of their kind
But people don’t go to Toyota, or Lexus, for great sports cars

Just like people don’t go to Hyundai for great luxury cars

Public perception is reality
Lexus can build super sports cars, but they probably won’t sell a lot
Lexus is typecast
Putting a stick in the IS350 would help
DrFill

FYI, most luxury car buyers are 40+
Just because you drive a car that is based on performance, that doesn’t mean you are any smarter or know more than any other buyer
A 40 year old is more likely to buy a BMW
At some point they will want softer leather, better interiors, smoother ride, and superior service

The LF-A and IS-F show Lexus can do anything any other luxury maker can do
Maybe even better
Time will reveal Lexus has the situation well in hand
DrFill

We’re talking business and they’re making more $ than the competition and is making the sales. Not to defend them but I think they’re the smart one.

ALS
I didn’t get in my Mom’s Corolla
I got in your Mom’s pants!
Now I know why they call it Labor Day!

Have a Happy Holiday!
DrFill

Just stop!

ToxicNut: “johnnycanuck if Toyota built more model that could be re-badged then L—s would get more models.” Yep.

Also, I don’t know if this is true or not, but, since a lexus vehicle is known to last longer, one doesn’t buy a lexus over and over again, you would buy a bmw over again because it won’t last. I know many people that lease their bmws, then buy it out with an extended warranty, and then sell it right before the warranty runs out. I also know friends who own lexus vehicles who are still on their first lexus with more than 100k miles and don’t have any problems. Get what I’m trying to say though??

The IS has a convertible now too, and an F model. All it’s missing is the conventional coupe.

Ok, back on topic. Lexus is losing because they are boring, unexciting, and uninspiring. It’s like a bad dream and only going to get worse. Turn around time on this is 3-5 years minimum. Hasta la vista, Lexus!