Impressive.

^^ agreed. Pity though the exterior, apart from the front, doesn´t follow much the agressive attitude of the engine.

holy **** them german not playing

It had to have more power than the RS4. The M3 will really kick ass when it arrives.
Even the 1990’s M3 which I used to own sent my adrenaline pumping. M3’s are the ultimate sports saloons.

295 ft/lbs of torque is not good. i hate these high reving hondaesque motors. Give me a Mercedes AMG V8 anyday.

Sure an AMG merc is better, but that will be like just another big fast Merc. There is a little bit more in an M car

roadmaster i understand what your saying, but remember that it is lighter, but i still want the torque up to 360+

nice engine, but the new m3 design is a little disapointing…the rs4 looks better (when you compare it to the regular a4) audi can make it look aggressive with simple discrete changes.

NO NO NO! That torque curve is horrible, no matter how they talk it up.

420 horsepower, god I love the Germans

and don’t even try comparing AMG to M cars, BMW takes performance to a whole different level than Mercedes does.

420hp is a lot, but I have to wonder how BMW is expecting to be ahead of the competition with those kind of figures. The new CTS-V will probably being in the 500hp range with its new V8, and the new TwinForce V6 from Lincoln produces 415hp and 350lb-ft @ 2000 rpm. I just do not see this engine really destroying the competition. Maybe they will make some adjustments to the weight to make up for the difference.

roadmaster96, I was about to say the same thing. The torque numbers (for the first time, I have to say) are disappointing.

The Audi RS4 still has the better looks but for a coupe the M3 looks pretty good. I”d still take the Audi over M3.

Toyota Prius has more torque (478 Nm).

No matter what you say, the BMW will kick ass. No Cadillac or Audi can match it for sheer excitement, speed and handling. End of story.

Eh, the merc’s are still auto’s, and I don’t think the E63 comes with a differential unless you get the performance package, which costs another $10k. But if you want to go fast in a straight line…

^^ What about an Aston Martin?

We need more power! More! MORE! MOOOOOOOORE!

And just watch out for more “Best engine of the year” awards. I doubt the supercharged (or huge) engines of those american engines you guys mentioned come close to this work of art. If you still don’t like it, go ahead and buy a Caddy, that will add more value to remaining M3s.

Remember when M3’s were 4 cylinder cars?

Id rather have the RS4.
Like stated before, this engine needs more torque, and is indeed very “honda-esque”.
Nice job working 105hp/litre though out of a NA engine.
Still, give me an RS4.

The M3’s of yesterday are the GTI’s of today.

i think id take the new CTS-v over this too… ok im done

A4 I agree but this is a impressive machine

I’ll reserve comment until I see an M3 go up against that Xede tuned 335i coupe. Price of 335i + ~$1300 for the Xede chip is still less than the M.

The excitement from the M cars come from their engines. You have to rev them up high to really get what you are paying for.

AMG engines are torque monsters and all you have to do is jam that gas pedal. Not saying there’s anything bad about that. AMG and M cars appeal to different crowds.

I have to agree with some of the other comments, I’d sooner take a CTS-V.

—————>seriously nothin against the ///M3, but I’ll take an RS4 please…….(better torque AND all wheel drive)

I love to see the performance numbers. I think the styling is fantastic, but not as “clean” as the RS4. Personally I love seeing Audi, BMW, and Mercedes going after each other. It means awesome cars for us to look at (and maybe a couple of us who can actually buy one!). Not really feeling the CTS-V. The interior is cheap and the styling is too edgy (pun intended). Performance is good though.

Why is the exaust manifold red hot?

GT40, the manifold is red hot because BMW forgot how to handle heat.

Read the articles on edmunds.com: The BMW 335, and the BMW M5 have heat problems. The 335’s motor overheats after 4 laps of racing. And the BMW M5 has a tranmission that can’t handle 500HP. BMW is making some serious lapses in engineering lately.

I know this is a completely unfounded statement, but I have this weird feeling that there will be an even more powerful version of the m3/the engine that will be more aligned with the next RS4, so as to compete more directly with it, it may sound ridiculous but perhaps there will be a level above m3, or maybe there will just be a mid-cycle tuning when Munich realizes that this thing needs a bit more. Either way I’m sure this thing handles and drives like a goddamn beast. 1.4 g’s? nice

1.4g’s? That’s not what the article says. The motor can handle oil circulation up to a lateral accleration of 1.4g’s. It says nothing about the car.

high-revving + V8 + straight piped = delicious soundsss

Don’t forget the regenerative braking…that is indeed exciting. Well, I’ll be more excited when I see the fuel economy on this engine. Supposed to have regenerative braking on the upcoming 128 as well, great innovations coming out of BMW having more to do with ecological concerns than the ridiculous horsepower.

And when it comes to BMW power, remember 2 things:

1) BMW always understates power
2) BMWs are much more than HP, drive one and you’ll know.

That torque is pathetic. Who gives a crap about delicious sounds? If I wanted delicious sounds I’d get a CD player.

oh yeah POWAAAAAAAAA!!!
I wonder if it will outrun an M5 on a short distances…
It will be faster than all this crap from audi and mercedes that’s for sure…

uhh i think weve already been answering that question homeboy

some people forget this, horse power doesnt really mean a damn thing anymore, it all lies in torque, and how well the car can use its torque.

for example, the mercedes brabus SL has 811lbft of torque, but the traction control can only handle 600, so it just sits there peeling out saying “this is impossible”. for one the car isnt a good start for a performance car, hence why it weighs 4000lbs.

and plus the bmw M6 with what, 507hp, got out ran by a porsche 911 with what, barely pushing 400hp, because alot of the M6’s power is waisted away, and the porsche uses all of it… sorta the same goes for the M5 as well. so in actuality, it depends apon the car and how well it uses its horsepower/torque. whether it uses all of it, or throws 30% of it out the waist gates.

I’d rather have the RS4, Looks a lot better!

drivingisfun,
yes, that version would be new ///M3 CSL. I think around 450 hp and maybe 100 to 150 lbs less weight. Hopefully this time it’ll make across the pond.

I’ll wait to see how BMW implements this engine in the M3. BMW has excellent engineers, with something up their sleeves, and this is no run-of-the-mill V8. The high revving is a plus, if you ask me. Being one of the lightest weighting V8 in the world is also a major bonus. No doubt about it, the M series are coveted by enthusiasts.

do ANY of you numb nuts even have a BMW or an Audi? I have both.. an A4 Saloon and a 3 series coupe. I can tell you, the handling and performance of the BMW whops the Audi’s ass. For those of you knocking the torque figure, an F1 car probably has less yet look how fast they are. Torque gets u going, but BHP keeps you going, which is what matters.

But, the AMG motor is lighter, has more hp, more torque too.

All the cars in this segment are too bloated and overweight. Give me a GT3 or a Cayman with a 3.8 X51 conversion.

The GT3 engine is more impressive with 415 hp and 299 lb-ft of torque from a 3.6 liter six cylinder (naturally aspirated). It has more torque but considerably less displacement…go figure. And its lubrication is dry-sump.

I wouldn’t have either an Audi or Bimmer myself.. but if I had to choose one, BMW all the way. Don’t want a service queen.

warmasice, ur the numb nuts, obviously you don’t know **** about cars. Torque is much more important, top speed does not win races, acceleration and handling does. and ur retarded comparing F1 cars to this, in F1 acceleration is not as important, F1 cars don’t even accelerate of the line because they can’t. all the fun in driving is in the handling and acceleration

i also don’t like the fact that the exhaust manifold is red hot cuz if one were to do anything to the engine, i might be running into engine trouble.

this is the problem nowadays. everyone pays attention to horsepower and thats all they care about. i got 400, well i got 500! you all have forgotten what makes a car fast. weight is the #1 enemy to speed, handling, cost, everything! this is why an M6 and M5 would get its ass handed to it by a Carrera S or even Carrera base! this is why an Evo FQ400 can keep up with a Murcielago despite having 300+ fewer horses. more weight = more safety needed + more power needed.

Wow, I don’t even have to bring up the CTS-V’s 500+hp and the M3’s low torque rating this time around because everyone already did for me. Great job guys!!

I have a 1990 535i and I have to agree, there is more to BMW than the engines. My car is just damn solid all around, especially with M5 suspension.

Certainly this M3 will be better all around than any of the competition. BMW does not take things laying down, they will come out strong and whoop some ass. I don’t really understand why the torque is so “low” though, maybe they will bump it up or maybe they are under-stating it on purpose. Wouldn’t be the first time.

exactly sharice, warmasice is a “numb nuts”. i have an A4 saloon, and a GLI 2.0t, and ive driven three different 325i’s and while yes, the rwd handling of a 3 series is grand, the awd capability and road holding characteristics are amazing, and when the B8 A4 comes out in a couple years with Audis new 5th gen quattro system with a rear biased torque split, it will surpass BMW, and easily surpass their crappy X-drive system. A simple suspension upgrade to the A4 makes it a worthy handling adversary to the 3-series, and audi offers the S-line package – so if it matters, get that. I can easily vouch for that as well as the FWD GLI handles significantly better than the AWD A4 – thanks to the GTI suspension components.

i want to know 0 – 60 (or 62) and 1/4 mile times. i’d also like to see this car in action. top gear anyone?

I cant believe people are worrying about the cars cooling because of the photo of the red hot exhausts. Theres this cool invention called an engine dyno, and like, you can hook up engines to it and see how much power they make. Unbelievable i know…

GT40, why don’t you go on a 25 minute thrash in your car and have a look at the exhaust then. might find you too have these crazy ‘cooling problems’.

Its pretty amazing how many people know more about this car than the designers at BMW just from a few photos and a couple of lines of info…

God, that’s not much torque… Wonder what the 0-60 times will be.

Why should you worried about BMW and it’s cooling? Here’s a few quotes from edmunds.com:

The BMW 335:

It happens on lap 4. That’s when the difference between Infiniti’s 2008 G37 Coupe and BMW’s 2007 335i Coupe crystallizes.

All at once the BMW coupe that we’ve considered the leader in its class finally decides it’s had enough. With its oil temperature pinned at 300 degrees F and its coolant temperature climbing rapidly, the turbocharged Bavarian wonder engages its limp-home mode and we crawl pathetically back to the pits.

The BMW M5:

More disturbing than the stability control was the warning that flashed up on the iDrive screen after just 12 miles of fast driving. Transmission temperature was escalating, so the M5 announced that it was taking matters into its own circuits by reducing engine output. The redline then steadily crept down. And down. By the time we got fed up and pulled over to let it cool, the redline had dropped to 6,000. Apparently the manual transmission just doesn’t have the cooling capacity to deal with 500 hp.

So yeah, people here might not know as much as BMW engineers, but they certainly do know to give cooling some attention.

The world is changing, and BMW like Callaway, are onto to something:

http://www.callawaycars.com/v16/

From Callaway:
Technical Specifications

Callaway Cyclone V16
4.0-liter 16 cylinder 90° V angle
5 valve / cylinder DOHC
bore 75.5 (3.0 in.) x stroke 55.75 mm (2.19 in) = 3994 cc (243.83 cu. in.)
aluminium block and heads, iron liners
12 (2 x 6) main bearings, plain
crankshafts: en40b steel, 2x, 4 journal, flat plane, nitrided
connecting rod, steel, plain bearing
compression ratio 11.5-1 naturally aspirated
power 550 bhp@10,000 rpm
torque 340 ft/lb@ 8,500 rpm
max rpm: 10,500
dry sump lubrication, 1 pressure, 3 scavenge stages
super unleaded fuel
EFI single fuel injector / single throttle / cylinder

Dimensions:
926 length (36.45″)
540 width (21.25″)
500 height (19.7″) – to top of injector trumpets
dry weight: 152 kg (334 lbs.)
patented Cyclone cam drive system
clutch: superclutch triple plate 5.5″
water pump: ecu-driven, vari-speed electric unit

Honda figured it out long ago. Wait till this engine design philosophy finds it’s way into more and more of BMW’s vehicles. Then what will all the “never even driven an BMW” BMW fanboys cry about?

why do americans care so much about power. take a look at an exige. this isn’t for drag racing, it is a sportscar made for driving. handling and braking are far more important than power.

the v8 f1 cars of today are faster around a track than the v10s of 2 years ago.

I like how the new V8 is lighter than the old I-6.

Thinking hard about gettin the 2009 M3 sedan now.

I can’t wait to check ou the Coupe in the fall

A high revving engine sounds like a very good option. But it is replacing one set of issues for another. For a normal revving high output engine, the problem is making huge amounts of power per stroke. This can put enormous strain on the engine parts based soley on pressure and the “hit” each power stroke takes on the engine. Building a larger engine (i.e. the Corvette Z06 7.0L V* and the Vipers 8.3L V10) takes care of this by asking less from more. But the more you ask the more stress is exacted on the engine. Parts wear, heat issues, and so on.

A high revving engine can make enormous power by spinning much faster making the power on the revolution rather than on the power stroke. The production of power is a function more to do with velocity and time rather than mass and volume.

I find it fascinating and I think more sports cars will look to this in order to make performance targets, reliability expectations, and (whether we want to admit it or not) fuel concerns (the S2000 showed that not every high revver will be in super expensive cars but will find parlance in more affordable sports cars) where pockets aren’t as deep as the Marianas trench. Imagine a car that can beat the Veyron’s 250+ mph with “only” 500hp.

Internal combustion is not going away anytime soon I’m sure, Whether it’s gasoline, hydrogen, or some crazy “syntholine”… This is yet another step forward in performance as Racecar tech becomes more accessible to the consumer.

How long before the Corvette has a High revving engine of it’s own?

Game Over.

damn, listen to the sound clip of the callaway 16, sounds lika a friggin airplane. sweet

blakkar, theyre on the way already, the ls7 427 revs to 7000rpm way above the old 5600rpm redline all gm v8`s used to have. still not 10,000, but it would not make 505hp at the old 5600 redline. so i guess its a small start, if they did it in one shot the loyalists would whine too much, so instead they get baby steps.

What the hell is “spontaneous” engine response???
Does that mean the engine takes off when you least expect it??

Vseries,
Too bad they put that sweet powertrain in such a crappy car.

RSPINAJAR,
Turbos rock because of their superior torque at low RPM. My old 951 made 320lbft at 3000 RPM and could kick an M3’s ass without sounding like it was working hard.
Like the last M3, this one will be wicked fast, but somewhat tiresome with the need to rev the crap out of it to get anywhere. Personally, I can’t stand that type of engine, (S2000esque) and would much prefer a high torque turbo or higher displacement V8 with power on demand.
I don’t want to feel like I’m abusing the car everytime I want any power.

one last question, IS THE PASSENGER CUP HOLDER UNDER THE DRIVERS ARMREST? that always bugs me in my friends 2003 3 series.

Just give me my 7-seat X5 and it’s all good!

The Edmunds review demonstrates that if a bunch of journos take your BMW boulevard cruiser to a very hot race track and drive it like a stolen race car, it will overheat (surprise, surprise!) take care of itself and still get you home – not such a bad thing actually. Maybe the Nissan won’t overheat, but perhaps that’s because of the sagging fishes mouth blighting the bonnet – I know which I’d rather have.

What is brake energy regeneration? Does it involve some kind of electric motor that can provide a boost, as is proposed in F1, if so perhaps that will answer some of the torque concerns.
.
I notice that the weight is not included in the released details, I imagine that’s because this sportster is more Babe Ruth than Asfa Powell. Bigger engines are all well and good, but ask enthusiasts which is the best M3 and the answer is nearly always the first one, the lightweight 4-cylinder road racer.
.
CTS-Driver, who gives a **** where the cup holder is? If this is the kind of thing that concerns you in a car, you should probably think about a different 3-series, or maybe some kind of luxo-barge with mild sporting overtones, a Cadillac perhaps.

I hope it doesn’t have a cup holder, or an armrest for that matter, you ‘ve got better things to be doing with your hands in a 420hp sports car than sipping on a Macchiato or propping up your mobile-phone elbow on a nice piece of padded leather.

eurospective, you just used the keyword “BMW boulevard cruiser”, that’s what BMW’s are now adays, “cruisers”, not the driving enthusiast cars that they once were. 4 times around the track and the car calls it quits. How is that acceptable? 4000lbs M5 cars, is that really race car weight? BMW is producing grotesquely engineered cars, where the parts don’t work together. I know, I have a 645, and sometimes I wonder where the QA department went when they built my car. Luckily, I mostly “cruise” in my car. I’m probably the first BMW consumer to tell you that he cruises. Most days, enthusiast drivers just cruise, but won’t admit it… so there’s another term for that: posers. Which, is what BMW is doing these days.

Toy Yoda,
I agree, kind of; I expect the 335 and the 645 to be cruisers what makes me sad is that the M3 is fading into the rest of the range. I feel that the 335 should never have been tested on a track – that’s not what its for – but the M3 really needs to be up to the abuse.
As for M5’s M6’s etc. it all seems a bit silly. Why try to build a “Motorsport” car by starting of with a large saloon or its coupefied brethren? These are great GT’s, but they are not M-cars.

^^^that’s right, the 335 is not a track car. It is a street car, a muscle car. The M3 is the track star.

eurospective i was joking, cup holders do not matter in a sports car i never even use the ones in my car. just wanted to stop talking about the torque, this car will rip major ass aver ANY amg….period. unlike a benz this can also turn.

Yeah but Renton, did you read my other posts? 4 times around the track and it over heats? There’s no excuse for that. Plenty of street cars can do 4 times around the track before overheating. What about the M5? You can’t turn off traction control, the transmission overheats, not designed for 500hp, it’s too heavy. This is what I mean about grotesquely engineered. Did you see the M5 on Top Gear? It broke it’s rear axle on the track.

BMW are decent to good cars, but they are no where near the reputation that they have. Certainly, they are not driving enthusiast cars any more. I just wish those who own BMWs would complain about this more, but they don’t. Why?

Because most BMW owners are not driving enthusiasts. They just want to have that moniker. BMW knows this, they have to keep appealing to a wider and wider audience if they want their earnings to keep growing. It’s inevitable, with every car company. Look at the Mitsu Evo line. The Evo X won’t be the raw car appealing to a niche market. In it’s attempt to be appeal to more people the Evo has become more refined.

None of this is bad. A new car company / new car will meet the needs. I’d just wish car owners weren’t such brand whores, and can look at their brands in an objective manner.

Ofcourse if they we all do that, stop fooling ourselves, we might also realize that we mostly use our cars to get on with our day. For a majority of people, 90% of the time, anything more than a Toyota-camry like car is really a waste of time and money. I guess I’ll pretend to fool myself, so I can continue to enjoy leftlanenews.

(By the way guys, check out greencarcongress.com, if you are into science and alternative energies, they got some really cool articles and well informed readers.)

its sick, but a someone mentioned, more tuning w/ the 335i, plus i don’t have the $$ for the m, lol

Toy Yoda: it makes me sad to hear that. BMW is/was known to overbuild every damn vehicle…reading about broken axles, overheating issues etc. is very disappointing. I think I’ll have to accept the fact that NO automaker today builds their vehicles “like they used to”.

Kellyp,

We Americans tend to gravitate toward how powerful a car vehicle is for a number of reasons. I don’t know them all but I’m sure lots of folks will chime in on that.

Mine are fairly simple. Speed and acceleration. You can argue for days about how agile a car is but unless it has speed, it just isn’t going to register.

Unfortunately for us in American we do not have the vast array of treacherously winding road courses, and just plain old back roads to be found in Europe and most other parts of the world. As a result, it is about speed and acceleration, Point and shoot, kind of driving. Save that few sports cars made in America, the vast majority of performance vehicles are made to extol their power, not so much their handling ability.

American is a nation whose racing is built heavily upon NASCAR and drag racing. Gone is Rally racing as you might know and understand it (we have it but it’s small and largely ignored or else Detroit would have Rally cars for sell like crazy). NASCAR does not use many road courses throughout a season and on that note does not race the cars that are built like sports car racing. Trans Am is barely a blip on the racing radar to the masses…

All performance cars are shaped by the racing they are involved in. Detroit is getting back on the ball but the main emphasis will remain power. That’s we we want and that is just the way it is.

Handling is not so much an afterthought but just is not the highest thing on most car development criteria lists. Even when it is high on the list it tends to fall on or so slots short of Power.

It is upsetting to see a company, for whom so much is expected, falling short or just own when they are asked to show their worth. But I think it has to do with knowing your audience and building a machine that reads well on paper for that neophyte who wants a hot that really is not.

Those super-sedans from Europe are more to haul ass down the autobahn than cutting hot-laps at the track. it’s really no wonder when an M5 breaks a major part doing what it was billed as being able to do but not being specific in saying, “It’s fast, stupid fast, but it is not a track car”.

Is it possible to build and large sports sedan that won’t break under stress… Yeah… we Americans call those MUSCLE CARS.

If you want a trackable,loaded, modern streetcar, buy a Porsche!
They purposely stay out of the “overengineering” trap.

Im still laughing my ass off at everyones ‘professional’ opinion on a car that isn’t even released yet.

This engine is amazing. perhaps too amazing, you can’t help but think that it’s something BMW put together quickly to take back some of the thunder the RS4 has recently took from it. They crammed all of there technological know how in it directly just to spite the RS4 like c’mon BMW pretty much just dropped an F1 engine in the M3. This engine is definitely going to be nothing short of amazing, but i don’t see that it’s such a big leap from the FSI V8 in the RS4. There is only small difference in HP , RPM, and weight certainly not as big of a jump as the previous generation cars of the German horsepower race.

you can define see that all this technology will come at a price We have to wait and see when the car finally comes on the market. But because of all the technology i pretty sure it will cost much much more than the Rs4, something that i think is going to be the determining factor weather this car is back to being top dog. It will have to prove that little difference in performance is enough to better the almost similar rs4 with its the 4-wheel drive system and easy drivability.

and no a fence to all the Detroit fans, but i don’t think any of their cars are quite in the league of the Germans. The Cadillacs can come with 500 and 600 hps for all i care, but until GM breaks up or becomes less stingy and stops doing half ass jobs on their cars, they are really not in the competition. A car has to be REFINED…everything about it, interior and everything. I love the CTS, but put it beside a merc, bmw, and audi you can tell the difference in build quality unless your vision is completely impared by nationalism. PLZ!!! go all out on the product GM !!!

blackyae86.

I never commented on how the M3 will be. It might be good or bad. I”m commenting on BMW in general. And most comments about the M3 in this thread has been about the pathetic torque output of the motor.

The Ferrari 360 Modena has a comparable motor to the BMW. It’s a peaky motor, about 3.8L, V8, 400HP, and 275ft-lb torque. 20HP less, and 20lb-ft less than the new M3 motor. Yet, the Modena weighs about 3000lbs, and the new M3 will likely weigh at least 3400lbs, since the last one weighed roughly that weight.

The biggest knock on the 360 Modena, if you read anything about the car, is that the torque is awful. The M3 will feel more sluggish if you look at the numbers per weight. So, I think people here who think the torque is girly have a very valid complaint, and that’s nothing to laugh about.

so true, great how so many of you really know this car b4 its even out yet…. i’m sure all of you can build a better machine then these germans!!!!! LMFAO

camero: Stop thinking about these things so hard, it’s not that deep, BMW didn’t do a rush job on anything.

Which was then followed with:

You say it ‘MIGHT’ be good OR bad, then follow it up with imaginary stats that haven’t been released yet. Like I said, please keep posting Toy Yoda, its very amusing.

ah farking comment dealy. meant to say this:

“blackyae86.
I never commented on how the M3 will be.”

Which was then followed with:
“and the new M3 will likely weigh at least 3400lbs”

lol

just curious… whats the point in having a high v/max in the US? Arent you guys stapled to 75mph? (ok, you always find a place to push the pedal to the metal now and then…)

but is that worth risking ur drivers lic? or do you attend speedways regularly?

I love the CTS, but put it beside a merc, bmw, and audi you can tell the difference in build quality unless your vision is completely impared by nationalism. PLZ!!! go all out on the product GM !!!

Comment by camero, posted on March24 at 9:54 pm

ill say this is true, doesnt matter if my cts beats my girls 525, her interior is probably 2 steps above mine. i like the feel of some of the dash panels, and the dash itsself has a realy nice grain to it.

blackyae86.

It will be good or bad, what else can it be? That’s not a statement about the design nor is it an opinion, it’s the position I have on the car –neutral. We shall wait and see how the car turns out. The 3400 lbs is an educated guess based off previous M3s. I’m only pointing out a car with similar dimension and the complaints launched against it. Where do I come out and say the car sucks or is awesome.

Finally, this is a place where car enthusiasts can talk, “professional” or not. Last I checked, you haven’t contributed anything to the conversation other than getting your jollies bashing on everyone else. If anything, you should be laughing at yourself. Notice how no one is laughing at you. Why? because frankly reading car forums to act like a snob for a few laughts is a sad life indeed.

Cheer up, things will get better.

TO: ‘Aston Martin’ (comment 5)

Saloon = sedan M3’s were available as sedans back in the E36 days, since then only coupes…

eurospective

you dont know anyone who autocrosses or hot laps their car during season on the weekends? I do. Theres no excsuse that the car should over heat after only 4 laps for their top of the line 3 series. Its not a true race car but its a SPORTS COUPE. Theres absolutely no reason at all why it should fail, even if it is in arizona. What about all the people living in arizona who wanted to buy a 335? Not anymore…

its not failing anymore, old news!!! read peolpe (335i)

“reading car forums to act like a snob for a few laughts is a sad life indeed.”
- Toy yoda,

Welcome to the internet! Theres no need to result to calling me a snob just because im laughing at your comments, which are obviously quite biased’.

If they have made the engine bigger, yet lighter than the I6, what makes you think they haven’t reduced weight in all other areas of the car? You talk about people looking at brands objectively, why don’t you?

This car is a “concept” car. How many concept cars to date have ever been “EXACTLY” the same as their “production” counterparts?

Perhaps the torque doesn’t exactly suit your fancy, but quite honestly BMW has never been a company to grab your attention by throwing out numbers and seeing who responds and who doesn’t. OHHHH… the Caddy CTS-V puts out 500hp and 390 lb torque. Bid deal. It also utilizes a 5.7L engine (The staple GM V8). 420 out of 4.0L is a bit more impressive, not so much torque, but the pesky Bavarians have probably configured something to counteract that. Whoever, The Caddy corners like crap, is weak through the gears and the interior doesn’t look much differenty from a Chevy Impala.

To also say that BMW’s QA control is lacking. Give me one company whom is better at it or basically, doesn’t suck. For all you “I’d rather have an Audi” buffs, do you know who owns 99.7% of Audi? VW, one of the worst assembled auto’s in the world. Yeah, they’re a seperate division of the company, but it all stems from the top. “German engineering in da house”, more like lame advertising for a lame company who builds their cars in Mexico. Seriously, you might as well say, “I’d rather have a Land Rover or a Beamer”.

black.

Sorry for the insult.

As far as being biased against the brand, I am not. I have nothing against the M3 coming out. In fact, I hope it’s quite good.

I have a 6er, and a Z car, nothing says I endorse the product more than putting your money where your mouth is. But, I’m also objective, and I think BMW is living off it’s reputation. They are still a good brand, but no where deserving of the moniker “Ultimate Driving Machine”. Over the years, each model line have gotten heavier and heavier –that’s not a biased opinion, that is fact, you can look it up. The trend line might jitter, but it’s definitely an upward trend. And weight is the number one enemy against performance.

like i said, its all about how the M3 puts its power down on the road, and it uses every inch of it like porsche’s do.

Exhaust manifolds are RED HOT when engines are Benchtested (dynoed) for extended periods at high revs.

It doesn’t necessarily equal engine overheating.
Haven’t you ever seen race cars with glowing exhausts before?

Weight continually goes up in practically all cars. Everybody wants to have luxury, safety (gov’t mandated) features, here in the US. Compare them to the same models in Europe, they are lighter over there.

THE AMERICAN CARS ARE CLOSING THE GAP but still drive and feel like crap vs the Europeans.

So what if the caddy has 500 hp, it still drives/handles like a heavy american luxo boat. And the durability is suspect.
(Road & Track long term CTS V had lots of drivetrain issues)

You guys who rag on Euros, Have you even driven any of these cars for more than a few minutes or at all?
If you were honest with yourself, you wouldn’t spend another dime on American iron. At least not any time soon.