True, Id take a BMW, Lexus or Benz over an Audi

Arrogance and hubris will get you nowhere. In this business you don’t discount anyone. Audi is clearly gunning for BMW, if BMW doesn’t take notice then it will be too bad for them.

Would we all agree:

- Tier A: BMW, MB, Lexus
The obvious contenders

- Tier B: Inifniti, Volvo, Acura, Cadillac, Jaguar
All trying hard, but no real flagship

- Tier C: Saab, Lincoln
Still finding their way, or trying to stay solvent

Audi does seem to be hovering in between A & B.

This attitude is exactly what got Detroit where it is today. It doesn’t take long to fall from grace and you should never count out your competition.

I’d also like to note that S5 is the sexiest sport coupe to come out in a very, very long time.

Well, seeing as in the past 2 years Audi outsold BMW in its home country (maybe I should have written ‘fatherland’?) of Germany, I think that says a lot regarding who’s overtaking whom. Now that Audi is positioning its engines behind the front wheels and allowing for a much better weight distribution, plus distributing the use of the S-tronic dual clutch transmission on all its cars, I think BMW is going to have a direct competitor on its hands. But, hey if they want to keep on losing market share, that’s up to them.

Jon.

kenny agreed the s5 is a great looking sport coupe. dont count audi out there was a time in the 80`s and 90`s i hated audis but today they have changed my perception. they still have a ways to go but damn they are nice.
for me.
bmw
audi
mb
then the rest.

I do not agree with the executive from BMW. Audi is definitely a competitor of BMW. As an owner of a BMW, my second choice was an Audi but I chose the BMW for its better styling. Both cars are excellent. I think Audi wants to position itself above Mercedes and BMW. Based upon Audi’s newest line up, I think they have exceeded BMW in terms of exclusivity. Audi’s cars are going to look and drive significantly better than ever before. Just look at the new S5 and R8. If BMW fails to understand this than they will be the one to drop while Audi rises.

What a dumb thing to say for a top executive of an auto Company. I would purchase an A5 over a 3 Series Coupe 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Consequently, Audi is definitely a direct competitor of BMW. Further, based on what I have read about the failures (transmission overheating into limp home mode)of the BMW M3 and M5 during recent reviews by auto publications, BMW should also be looking over their shoulder for the arrival of the new Cadillac CTS-V. When one thinks they have won, that is the point which they have likely lost.

I’m shocked that someone at BMW would say something so shortsighted….almost to the point that I would think something had to be lost in translation, or it was an intentional misspeak.

That’s gotta hurt.

i dont really see lexus as much of a competitor in the sport market at all. the SC430 is a joke and the IS 350 is soft. luxurious but not too terribly exciting. i would definitely agree with Jon. Audi is still a little bit down on power (S6 and S8?), but the gearboxes are amazing and the designs are beautiful. plus, have you seen bmw interiors? theyre covered in plastic and are about as comfortable as park benches.

This takes me by surprise (the audi part not the lexus part) but I think he would probably know better than we would. Also, just because he says Audi isn’t a true competitor YET doesn’t mean they’re discrediting Audi…I highly doubt they are.

LEXUS? AHAHAHAHA lexus’s are the buicks of the legitimate luxury world. Only old, uneducated people buy them because they dont enjoy a thrilling driving experience presented by the others. Lexus’s are stale copycats, continually playing catch up with the others. I see more B7 A4’s on the road than C-classes and IS’s, and id have to say more 3-series as well. Audi is a serious competitor and BMW wants to shrug off their new onslaught of models, especially the new A5/S5 duo which rides on the new platform that gives the audi better weight distribution than even the R8. The new audi platforms are going to provide the best driving experience ever offered from ingolstadt, and Quattro AWD is the number one AWD system in peoples minds. X-drive cannot compare, 4-matic is an afterthought, and lexus AWD… dont even bother. Lexus sucks, like i said, the only reason people buy them is because they want the “look at me” without the “wow what a drive”.

Never count out anyone even shooting in your general direction. They will hit and kill you if you don’t stay on you game.

I don’t think I agree with them, but anyway, I think they forgot about Infiniti. The G35 has proven itself in the marketplace as a viable alternative to the 3 series. It’s won comparison tests against the 3 in most major auto publications. The performance numbers are pretty close between a 330 and a G35, and the Infiniti is roomier inside. I don’t believe in comparing styling… you either like one or the other, or both… that’s purely subjective. Can’t argue with the performance — and sales numbers though.

Audi seems to be an absolute competitor to BMW. If there was no BMW around, i would be driving an A4 right now instead of my 3.

I love BMWs but this comment must resemble in some way what some of the bigwigs from the big 3 must have been saying about the Japanese cars in the 70s and we know how that turned out.

Audi has been a niche car maker for a awhile. That niche being “The Other German Lux Brand”. But now that the new S4, A5 and R8 are out audi is tearing through that perception.
BMW is targeting Lexus because Lexus is capturing the Mercedes market better than BMW ever could. BMW will be in trouble if they can’t defend against Audi AND try to out-Lexus Lexus. They got close to Mercedes but never supplanted them as The Lux car to have. Lexus is aleardy there to some.
MikeFX’s tiers are correct IMO.

thats foolishness BMW and Audi are rivals.they both have the same number of countless models. id take an A8 over the pig ugly 7 series and an S5 over the 3 series coupe and an A6 over the 5 series. BMW are being ididots they will soon realise it in the future.

Ohhh please. Don’t fall victim to sound bytes and the press. Obviously Audi is a competitor to BMW. The Caddilac CTS is a competitor to the 3 series as well. Just because a CEO gives a sound byte with a snide remark does not mean that is in fact truth. For all everyone knows, it could simply be a personal jab between the BWM and Audi or VW leaders. Look at Bob Lutz, he came out crying about the EPA threatening the shutdown of the new Camaro in hopes of public backlash on the EPA. It’s politics people.

Owned 2 new Audi’s and 1 new BMW in the last 5 years.
Audi blows bimmer away in every category except outright cornering (front weight bias hurts Audi)
Bimmer was in the shop no fewer than 5 times (window regulators, computer boxes, muffler replaced, brakes fried at 24kmiles)
Audi never saw the dealer save for regular service. MUCH nicer interiors on the Audi.
New 3 series is softer handler, more for the masses.
No LSD available in the 335i knocked it out of contention with me.

Agree 100%, audi is front or all wheel drive, besides its name isn’t as respected as BMW and other two.

Being the owner of both a B6 S4 and a E92 335i, I gotta tell you– this is a scary remark by BMW. My Audi has brought me a FAR more rewarding ownership experience in every aspect of the broadband. So much that my 335i is going for sale and I’m picking up the new S5 when it comes out. BMW please.

SR,

Jon is right: recently Audi A6 was the best selling car in its segment in Germany.

If the BMW exec really said this and meant it, he had to be speaking about the general reputation of the company, not so much the actual product. Because quite frankly everyone is your competitor when your product costs as much as BMW’s do. BMW’s are the holy grail for some but for many, it’s about price/performance/quality/reliability/safety. So when I go online and start pricing my new 335i and I see the $52,000.00 bottom line, I realize that if I’m going to spend 54 thousand I need to look at all the choices that are available. That can include SUV’s, Pickup’s, Luxury Sedans, econoboxes, literally everything. You’d think exec’s at companies who make big ticket items would would realize that. So he really has to be speaking about reputation, not individual products.

Martin, it is 3 years newer then any car in its segment. Plus I believe the Mercees E-class is the leader and s-class the leader in it own.

As for realiability, Mercedes and BMW does not have other companies that it shares parts with like Audi have Volkwagen. This is the whole point why BMW want to collabrate more with Mercedes. If they collabrate for chassis development, material cost, hydrogen research development, share factories and buy common parts together as bulk then they will save thousands on production. Plus on top of that the part can be tested more efficiently by both manufacturers together hopefully making them more reliable.

If this happens then any manufacturer is this segment is on their way down and out

har har har…

bmw….lexus. thats all! you can keep your 4 cylinders, your used-to-be-deadly-but-now-catches-on-fire TT, your front wheel drive A6, your A3 built on a VW Gol- i mean Rabbit, the completely pointless AllRoad, and the VW Touareg Q7.

i kid, the R8 is good enough to cover all the other crap.

Lexus is a piece of ****. It drives like a grandma’s car. Dont even get me started with their design skills. The most lame design ever. Interior looks like **** with cheap plastic materials. New LS is the only car I would give prop, but I will choose a8 over that any day. Lexus will never build cars like R8 or RS4.

The idiots who say Lexus is pathetic or shouldn’t be listed amongst BMW or MB obviously don’t work in the automotive industry. You can say what you want about Lexus vehicle dynamics or handling or lack of ‘passion’, but as a competitor, Lexus is the highest selling, most profitable luxury marque in the world. If that’s not formidable competition, please educate me.

if you dont like lexus than ok, we dont need smart remarks. theyre a typical luxury brand i would consider if im a busy 9-5 person. i dont look at them as a sports car brand like audi, bmw, mb, etc. theyre all gr8 making high-end performance cars. and for nearly 2 decades, they are a sucess. i would like an s-class or a8 but too many ppl have them despite the fact i live rite nxt to the biggest MB dealership and tht gets annoying. i could consider an ls for tht matter.

Lexus IS a piece of ****. Period. Ugly design, horrible handling, good-for-nothing engine parts, you name it. Toy Ota sure knows how to fool many people with their overpriced garbage vehicles, though.

Lexus is also the most secure

Hot damn I love that last post truer words were never spoken and the aussie BMW exec obviously doesn’t know ****. A go-kart could beat a lexus even when it’s on it’s last leg. Anyone could flick a hotwheels car across a table and beat a Lexus. BMW is the top luxury car company in the world. Mercedes and Lexus/Toyota are both wishing they were.

bottom line: lexus sucks.

If I really had a bug up my ass to buy a car that I could not rely on to start each day when I turned the key (basically any european car, including germany’s crappy luxury marques) then I’d take an Audi over a Bimmer or Benz. Most all german cars are nicely and purposely designed, after which they are poorly executed for the long haul. They are made and sold to appeal to those with significant inferiority complexes, which I’m sad to say is a large market. Just look at the lemmings on this site who automatically drool at anything with BMW on it no matter how hideous it is.

I was in an LS460 yesterday…and I was unimpressed. For all the hype, there was -nothing- to get excited about (other than the leather quality and the slick console lid).

Give me a Bimmer or an Audi or an MB anyday over a Lexus.

not commenting this guys perception… he propably knows what hes speaking about – or at least should be…

one thing i DO like to comment on is the part about audi outselling bmw… outselling another company does not help anybody… outprofiting another company is the interesting part….

I’m pretty much an M series BMW kind of guy. The 335i is a replacement for the E46 M3 so I like that car as well. I like Audi’s R8 but that is pretty much it.

Pity the blue oval has such a bad rep as their new Euro models (see new mondeo etc) are slowly creeping up to the quality levels required to compete with all mentioned brands… They just don’t have the prestigious name behind them and sadly Jaguar just doesn’t compete for them etc… Which would explain why they are up for sale.

Funnily satisfaction and reliabilty for Ford is on the opposite scale to Jaguar.

Reliability for example:

Top 100, Ford Focus is 44, Ford Mondeo is 62, BMW 3 Series is 65, BMW 5 Series is 93.
Audi A4 does very well at 30, A2 at 60 and A3 ranks higher than 5 series too at 88, with the Merc S Class coming in at 90 and E class at 72 iirc…

Hmm… food for thought

I’m sorry, but I always thought die große drei (that’s “the big three” in German) were always on a level playing field and competing with each other even if their focuses were somewhat different. I’m talking about Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz, of course. Then again, with the exception of the new C-Class, I think Mercedes is more of a Lexus competitor and BMW, Infiniti, and Audi in a group of their own.

and here in the US ford products are pieces of ****.

Mercedes is definalety the best luxury car maker by miles. BMW is best sporty sedan maker. Lexus is a copycat and still unable to get close to BMW/MB. Audi are (quote VW former chairman) “Glorified Volkswagen” and pathetically FWD or too heavy 4WD. Jaguar is probably the only one to rival the Mercs and Bmer. This how i reckon it is

1. Merc
2. BMW
3. Jaguar
4. Audi
5. Infinity
6. Lexus

I went to 2 different XDrive comparison organized by BMW. In those two test drives (3-series and 5-series), competitors were Mercedes, Lexus… and Audi. I think Audi is a little behind BMW but is clearly a competitor. They should not under estimate a big player like Audi in their market, because competitor or not, they are in the same market.

wow obsessedwithautos is so fancy with his german talk
arschloch

I have to change Stuart’s list to make it right:

1. Cadillac
2. Mercedes
3. BMW
4. Jaguar
5. Audi
6. Infiniti
7. Lexus

V-Series you blind moron heres how to make a correct list

1. Audi
2 BMW
3.Merc
4. VW
5.Lexus
6. Jaguar
7 Infiniti
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
9994748447 Cadillac

audi = expensive option package for VWs.

lexus at least puts the power to the correct wheels and they are driving more and more BMW like with every generation.

automobile magazine claims that the g37 is better than the 335 coupe. at least in terms of handeling/driver feedback.

infinity is the real competator.

if BMW wants to stay ahead, it needs to stop chasing the cat up the tree with this HP war. build the balanced machine while everyone else is trying to add another 100 hp. focus on dropping weight.

putting vw on that list completly overides any other point you were trying to make.

lexus has yet to make a sports anything so they dont even get consideration

MB has serious quality problems, they promised that those issues had been resolved and clearly they have not. not an option till they get that taken care of.

You guys are living in your own world… yea when you’re comparing performance / driving dynamics etc BMW is clearly much better but the guy is most likely referring to Lexus as a growing threat in stealing its sales numbers as a whole.

I love my Lexus.

I recently had the privilege of driving a 335i and all I can say is wow. BMW has done a great job with that car.

Halt mal die Klappe, A4 und geh zur Hölle.

WEKS,
fine, but stay the hell out of the fast lane!

kannst du gegessen mein scheisse bitte

and please WEKS, keep your grannymobile to the right

for all of those who are throwing crap at each other in regards to which car manufacture is better, you should note that each has its own market its shooting for, so they make their cars to best satisfy that market. Not all are trying to make your favorite car. Everybody is different, they are not all car fanatics who hang around Leftlane on the daily, they are lawyers, doctors, accountants, architects, artists, women etc.

Lexus if for those who what to get from point A to B in comfort, luxury, reliability, and pay less. So this results in them making more of cookie cutter vehicles, for reliability and so on. But they invest heavily in making their cars comfortable, if you ever been in a lexus their is nothing more quiet or smoother than like it. and thats desirable for some

BMW if for those who what to drive from point A-B in an F1 car, what iPod generation technology gizmos, and flashy superficial designs. Bmw invest heavilty in driving dynamics etc. Few can compare to it in terms of drivng like a race car and that is desirable for some.

Mercedes is the original luxury brand, its bent on revolutionizing everything and making you pay for it. safety, driving dynamics, luxury etc. For godskakes they made their new C-class biodegradable. This makes them respectable and the respect merc has is enough to be desirable for some

Audi is first thing first design over everything, they sacrifice alot for style, but in reasonable measure. Its for those who want to live a life with a beautiful object. From a mature or artisitc point of view audis are the most beautiful. As well their emphasis on their quattro driving system can be seen an equal or better alternative to BMW and Merc rear wheel drive systems, for 1 actually puts power to the road, and 2 when tuned well can out perform the other systems in cornering. This can be desirable for some

Infinity is new to the game and they haven’t really establitished alot to their name. you could categorize them as an aggressive lexus.

Cadillac is desperately trying to match up the rest, while GM problems hold them down

There is always going to be demand for each respective brand, as for Audi not being a competitor to BMW that couldnt be any more wrong. They’ve dug into the deep pockets of VW and have released an onslaught of new models that directly rival BMWs’ and from what ive seen they have been alot of audi converts. Audi sales have broke their records year after year. And those cars bought are cars that have a direct parallel BMW alternative. So that exec is stupid or is just like everybody else when they lose, they don’t wan’t to admit it.

the way i interpret his statement is that audi has the POTENTIAL to rival BMW. just ask 10 random people on the street which car they will drive. lexus and MB is CURRENTLY their biggest competitors thus far.

“Everybody is different, they are not all car fanatics who hang around Leftlane on the daily, they are lawyers, doctors, accountants, architects, artists, women etc. ”

Comment by ss1, posted on June16 at 9:44 pm

SS1, I nearly died laughing when I read this: the implication being that women are a separate category from all these professionals! LOL!!

Has nobody focused on the fact that this particular executive was from the “Australian arm” of BMW? It makes a lot of sense for Lexus to be miles ahead of a lot of companies in Australia because Japanese companies have a pretty strong following in Australia. Thanks to the fact that Australia is relatively close to Japan geographically and both are right-hand drive markets.

nowei Audi oursells Lexus in australia so ur wrong.
This is a bunch of scare tatics that BMW are trying to use, Audi’s are great cars and last year the Audi A6 in Australia won the premium luxury award for 2006 from Australia’s best cars awards beating both the E-class and 5-series???? so may i ask how could the car company that apparently are no compedtion beat both the merc and the BMW, well there’s ur answer BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER, BMW are scared beacuse Audi’s gained sales are impacting BMW.

my list

1)Audi
2)BMW
3)Mercedes
4)Lexus

Most of people want to drive an Audi but their bad resale value makes them stick to the common norm (BMW, MB). Thus Audi is really on a higher level than BMW.

If overall styling/looks was the determining factor. I’d go with these lists.

Tier1
1)Audi
2)BMW
3)Mercedes
4)Cadillac (Watch out Merc!)
5)Lexus
6)Infiniti
7)Jaguar……(I guess)

Tier 2
1)Honda
2)Buick
3)Lincoln (Henry F. would be pissed!!)
4)Volkswagen
5)Chrysler
6)Toyota
7)Pontiac

and Nissan definately above Honda.

No. Porsche Panamera is.

Sorry Maximus. Honestly, I forgot about them. Nissan is definitely above Honda. Consider them 0.9 of Tier 2. My apologies.

Hahaha I love that BMW isn’t including Audi in the list of competitors. BMW kills all of ‘em, but I def would still consider Audi a good competitor, that’s for sure.

LP640 : why are you placing Cadillac this low ? You really think there are below Volkswagen ?? Eureopean cars are not always better quality than amercians.
Also consider the price in your list. I think Cadillac is getting higher in luxury cars, Bob Lutz is doing a great job to change the image of Cadillac (and GM).

Deantj:
You’ve been taking your smart pills again, but I must defent Toyota’s faux-luxury division. They’re not ALL rebadged camrys. Some are rebadged Land cruisere, and some are rebagged Alteezas. Ther “flagship” is a rebadged Crown

TierOne: REAL LUXURY CARS
MBZ, BMW, Caddy, Lincoln, Rolls, Mazerati, Bentley
Tier II NICE CARS
Buick, Volvo, Land Rover, Audi, Saab, Chrysler, Alpha
Tier 3 : SLIGHTLY NICER THAN AVERAGE CARS
Mercury, VW
Tier 4: REGULAR (BUT NOT CHEAP) CARS
Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Honda’s faux-luxury, Toyota’s faux-luxury, Datsun

I just left out the exotics and stuff like that

Unquestionably, the BMW 760i is the world’s finest luxury car. Don’t be fooled.

jackjimturkey you got it!!!!!!

jackjim I’m with him. ^