Comments on: BMW moves to plastic for some coupe body panels http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html Car news, reviews, and specs for the auto-industry Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:35:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jeff Jones http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-233608 Jeff Jones Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:05:06 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-233608 Asher, What looks better after a few years of real world use, a dent free exterior with slightly larger panels gaps, or tight panel gaps and dings all over the exterior? I'll gladly give up some precision in exchange for a dent resistant body. Asher,

What looks better after a few years of real world use, a dent free exterior with slightly larger panels gaps, or tight panel gaps and dings all over the exterior? I’ll gladly give up some precision in exchange for a dent resistant body.

]]> By: Asher http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18401 Asher Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:23:48 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18401 gsh, I respect your opinion but my question didnt regard which was a better Track/Race car - this thread is about a standard 3-series coupe with real-world drivability and your initial post simply states that a Lancer Evo could wax it on a track - well of course it could, thats why I brought up the M3 comparison. The Evo is a fine, sharp-edged cutting tool with ultra-low weight and a big turbo-4 essentially created with 1 goal only in mind, the track - I would simply compare it more directly to a souped-up rally car like its classic rival, the Suburus, in which the materials, build costs and PURPOSE are roughly equal, than a 3-series coupe, that's all - best regards, Asher gsh, I respect your opinion but my question didnt regard which was a better Track/Race car – this thread is about a standard 3-series coupe with real-world drivability and your initial post simply states that a Lancer Evo could wax it on a track – well of course it could, thats why I brought up the M3 comparison.

The Evo is a fine, sharp-edged cutting tool with ultra-low weight and a big turbo-4 essentially created with 1 goal only in mind, the track – I would simply compare it more directly to a souped-up rally car like its classic rival, the Suburus, in which the materials, build costs and PURPOSE are roughly equal, than a 3-series coupe, that’s all – best regards, Asher

]]> By: gsh http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18380 gsh Sat, 29 Apr 2006 05:19:15 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18380 you obviously have no clue about the evo8 (much less the FQ400). its clear bmw has their wool over your eyes but hey, thats ok, i respect the e46 m3. if the question was rephrased "which would you take to win a race? the evo8 or the e46 m3?" and show me a person who actually races that would take the m3. dont bother reading up on cars unless you know about more than just 1... you obviously have no clue about the evo8 (much less the FQ400). its clear bmw has their wool over your eyes but hey, thats ok, i respect the e46 m3. if the question was rephrased “which would you take to win a race? the evo8 or the e46 m3?” and show me a person who actually races that would take the m3. dont bother reading up on cars unless you know about more than just 1…

]]> By: Asher http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18377 Asher Sat, 29 Apr 2006 04:45:12 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18377 please yourself - go ask 50 random auto enthusiasts "Youve won a choice of 2 cars, the Lancer Evo 8 or an e46 M3," I guarantee at least 48 take the M. Dont reply until you go do it and come back w/real-world results... please yourself – go ask 50 random auto enthusiasts “Youve won a choice of 2 cars, the Lancer Evo 8 or an e46 M3,” I guarantee at least 48 take the M. Dont reply until you go do it and come back w/real-world results…

]]> By: gsh http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18375 gsh Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:49:38 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18375 who cares about 50/50 weight distribution. the evo8/9 has a 60/40 bias and will still burn all (hmm i think the FQ400 can but we dont get it here in the US) BMWs in the straights and corners and i really do mean ALL...please who cares about 50/50 weight distribution. the evo8/9 has a 60/40 bias and will still burn all (hmm i think the FQ400 can but we dont get it here in the US) BMWs in the straights and corners and i really do mean ALL…please

]]> By: Asher http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18344 Asher Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:00:47 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18344 Plastic body panels suck - of course these are some type of composite but still, there's only 1 main issue I have with them > look at 2 cars in person next to each other, one with steel-bodied panels and the other with plastic with the exact same paint job/color etc. If you don't notice the difference, then you're likely not an auto enthusiast and an LLN reader. Any car enthusiast knows quality when they see it and could tell you that painted plastic body panels always look cheap and plasticky - imagine that. Painted steel appears solid and tank-like. For a good example, look at Mercedes models - the old E-class vs the current one or the new C or E-class vs the SL. Painted steel ALWAYS looks better. Of course, in this case, it is very MINOR use and it is done to get 50/50 perfect weight distribution and I guess some things have to be sacrificed on the new 3 Coupe in order to gain other cool new features like that new 6-speed high-tech Automatic box... Plastic body panels suck – of course these are some type of composite but still, there’s only 1 main issue I have with them > look at 2 cars in person next to each other, one with steel-bodied panels and the other with plastic with the exact same paint job/color etc. If you don’t notice the difference, then you’re likely not an auto enthusiast and an LLN reader.

Any car enthusiast knows quality when they see it and could tell you that painted plastic body panels always look cheap and plasticky – imagine that. Painted steel appears solid and tank-like. For a good example, look at Mercedes models – the old E-class vs the current one or the new C or E-class vs the SL. Painted steel ALWAYS looks better.

Of course, in this case, it is very MINOR use and it is done to get 50/50 perfect weight distribution and I guess some things have to be sacrificed on the new 3 Coupe in order to gain other cool new features like that new 6-speed high-tech Automatic box…

]]> By: jm http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18336 jm Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:21:24 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18336 Saturn's were also built on a spaceframe that placed no load on the doors and f/r fenders. Most cars actually integrate steel body panels into their structure and rely on them for strength and body structure. Also note most plastics are "thermoplastic" and weaken, soften, and expand with higher temps. BMW may have improved on this to a degree but it is still an issue and even more difficult with larger parts like doors. This leads to larger panel gaps, increased wind noise and more drag. Saturn’s were also built on a spaceframe that placed no load on the doors and f/r fenders. Most cars actually integrate steel body panels into their structure and rely on them for strength and body structure. Also note most plastics are “thermoplastic” and weaken, soften, and expand with higher temps. BMW may have improved on this to a degree but it is still an issue and even more difficult with larger parts like doors. This leads to larger panel gaps, increased wind noise and more drag.

]]> By: Don http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18332 Don Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:09:27 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18332 "No way, steel isn’t cheap at the moment and also it needs to be pressed." You're right steel isn't particularly cheap at the moment at ~$600/ton. That compares to about $580/ton for crude oil (assuming 7.333 barrels/ton). But the chemicals used to make these plastics are just a small fraction of that crude oil. To refine the oil and synthesize plastic will cost way, way more than the price of steel. Plus the fact that steel can be pressed is actually a plus over plastic. Pressing parts is much more efficient than casting, molding, and setting plastic. Molding simply can't produce the same number of parts per hour. Plastics are a time consuming process compared to simply stamping steel. And time equals money. Plastics will be more expensive. “No way, steel isn’t cheap at the moment and also it needs to be pressed.”

You’re right steel isn’t particularly cheap at the moment at ~$600/ton. That compares to about $580/ton for crude oil (assuming 7.333 barrels/ton). But the chemicals used to make these plastics are just a small fraction of that crude oil. To refine the oil and synthesize plastic will cost way, way more than the price of steel.

Plus the fact that steel can be pressed is actually a plus over plastic. Pressing parts is much more efficient than casting, molding, and setting plastic. Molding simply can’t produce the same number of parts per hour. Plastics are a time consuming process compared to simply stamping steel. And time equals money. Plastics will be more expensive.

]]> By: junkie http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18321 junkie Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:28:54 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18321 Other BMWs (and many other cars) have already been using plastic bodypanels, so why exactly is this noteworthy? /Just askin' Other BMWs (and many other cars) have already been using plastic bodypanels, so why exactly is this noteworthy?
/Just askin’

]]> By: Jon http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18310 Jon Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:52:24 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18310 Northeasterner is correct. Jon. Northeasterner is correct.

Jon.

]]> By: tosta_mista http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18297 tosta_mista Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:59:13 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18297 The 'designer liberty' is a crappy excuse to try to reduce costs. "These plastic panels are probably more expensive for BMW compared to steel, given the rapidly increasing price of crude oil" No way, steel isn't cheap at the moment and also it needs to be pressed. The ‘designer liberty’ is a crappy excuse to try to reduce costs.

“These plastic panels are probably more expensive for BMW compared to steel, given the rapidly increasing price of crude oil”

No way, steel isn’t cheap at the moment and also it needs to be pressed.

]]> By: Northeasterner http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18282 Northeasterner Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:03:58 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18282 E M - it's "Bimmer", not "Beemer". The term "Beemer" refers to motorcylcles. E M – it’s “Bimmer”, not “Beemer”. The term “Beemer” refers to motorcylcles.

]]> By: E M http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18273 E M Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:38:56 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18273 Saturn colors were not "molded in". They only had a different tint base for light/dark colors, I think. I've seen the back of a Saturn panel, and it is not the color of the car. Plastic does REDUCE dings, but they will still mark and deform, but it takes a lot more force. GM had a gold-mine with the process they developed with the Fiero, and later the Saturn, but again failed to refine it, and educate the consumer about all of it's properties and compromises. (like large panel gaps) I love seeing an old Fiero or Saturn with the wheels falling off but the bodies look like new...where my new Beemer looks like its gone through the duck-shoot at the local carnival when I park it at the airport.! Saturn colors were not “molded in”. They only had a different tint base for light/dark colors, I think. I’ve seen the back of a Saturn panel, and it is not the color of the car.

Plastic does REDUCE dings, but they will still mark and deform, but it takes a lot more force. GM had a gold-mine with the process they developed with the Fiero, and later the Saturn, but again failed to refine it, and educate the consumer about all of it’s properties and compromises. (like large panel gaps) I love seeing an old Fiero or Saturn with the wheels falling off but the bodies look like new…where my new Beemer looks like its gone through the duck-shoot at the local carnival when I park it at the airport.!

]]> By: SR http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18267 SR Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:21:37 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18267 But I bet a "ding" in the paint will be harder to get with plastic behind the paint. The plastic will bend more and not chip and dent. But I bet a “ding” in the paint will be harder to get with plastic behind the paint. The plastic will bend more and not chip and dent.

]]> By: Mike http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18265 Mike Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:11:46 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18265 one problem with the door dings and stuff: Saturn had their color molded in, BMW is painting theirs...so yes, you will still have the door dings. one problem with the door dings and stuff: Saturn had their color molded in, BMW is painting theirs…so yes, you will still have the door dings.

]]> By: Don http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18259 Don Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:49:18 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18259 These plastic panels are probably more expensive for BMW compared to steel, given the rapidly increasing price of crude oil. These plastic panels are probably more expensive for BMW compared to steel, given the rapidly increasing price of crude oil.

]]> By: Northeasterner http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18256 Northeasterner Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:46:40 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18256 I am fine with plastic as long as it doesn't compromise safety... I am fine with plastic as long as it doesn’t compromise safety…

]]> By: JW http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18252 JW Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:43:33 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18252 So does this mean BMW's will actually be affordable now? So does this mean BMW’s will actually be affordable now?

]]> By: TW http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18250 TW Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:43:14 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18250 Works for me. Less rust also. Works for me. Less rust also.

]]> By: ///mach3 http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18248 ///mach3 Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:39:23 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18248 I still don't see why other auto manufacturers haven't done this.. I know the original fiero had the composite panels, and Saturns (scoff as you will) have 'em - it keeps stupid door dings and minor bumps off the body - no more need for minor body shop work, or PDR, etc. As crazy as it may seem, plastic paneling FTW. I still don’t see why other auto manufacturers haven’t done this.. I know the original fiero had the composite panels, and Saturns (scoff as you will) have ‘em – it keeps stupid door dings and minor bumps off the body – no more need for minor body shop work, or PDR, etc. As crazy as it may seem, plastic paneling FTW.

]]> By: Mike http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18245 Mike Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:34:24 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18245 edit: What's good for a 1994 Saturn is good for a 2007 BMW edit: What’s good for a 1994 Saturn is good for a 2007 BMW

]]> By: Mike http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18244 Mike Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:33:14 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18244 hey, what's good for Saturn is good for BMW... hey, what’s good for Saturn is good for BMW…

]]> By: JD http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18241 JD Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:23:13 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18241 Whatever works! Whatever works!

]]> By: mammor http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels.html#comment-18240 mammor Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:19:50 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/28/bmw-moves-to-plastic-for-some-3er-body-panels/#comment-18240 The fender's so light a little girl can carry it! check it out lol http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18359 The fender’s so light a little girl can carry it! check it out lol

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18359

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