May30
BMW will launch its 2008/2009 M3 coupe with an all-new seven-speed double-clutch gearbox as an alternative to the regular six-speed manual. Official confirmation comes from a memo sent to BMW dealers, according to Autocar.
The gearbox will be called M DCT, and is very similar to Volkswagen’s DSG transmission. A dual-clutch system features two computer-controlled clutches, making shifts both smooth and extremely quick. Simple automated manuals — such as BMW’s SMG — provided quick shifts but can be jerky during tame driving.
The M DCT model will likely be a few tenths of a second faster than the manual M3. The transmission is being built by Getrag. Drivers will be able to use a shift lever or paddles to change gears.
The M DCT will be available on the new M3 in March 2008. BMW is likely to replace the SMG III transmission used in the M5 and M6 with a similar gearbox in the near future, possibly along with mid-cylce facelifts to the cars.
nothing beats a manual transmition
Nothing beats a double clutch gearbox. Manual transmissions were great, in 1912.
And Getrag as the transmission partner? Oh really, no surprise there, just go back to the Volkswagen DSG post a few topics back.
whats with everyones obsession with manual tranny’s??? i like the DSG
It would be nice if they offered this for the 335i.
getrag huh, i wonder if a similar getrag will end up in gm`s lineup again.
Getrag is developing a line of DCTs with Ford. With Ford hurting for investments, I expect them to propose a development-sharing alliance with GM much like they did developing the new 6-speed automatics.
Give me 3 pedals and call me old-fashioned.
dual clutch transmission shifts: 8 milliseconds
Ferrari F430 SMG shifts: 150 milliseconds
For the sake of pure speed, sure, they’re great. but for the sake of the experience and feeling (or the purity of it all), they’re not. it just depends on what your focus is. for me, it would be more of a mood thing. sometimes, no matter how hardcore of a driver you are, you just feel a little lazy and you don’t want to always be shifting, right (especially in stop and go traffic)? so that’s why a DSG is good, but it’ll make you miss the third pedal and some left foot driving if you’re a hardcore enthusiast, I’m sure.
if you are stuck in traffic just put it in drive, when you get past traffic put in in manual, isnt that the piont. hey just imagine trying to drive an 8 speed stick, you would look like youre having convulsions your shifting so much.
i will miss sidestepping a clutch when all cars are dsg/smg.
manual would be more fun but the DSG would give you better numbers.
Nothing beats a six speed manual, damn straight. Manual tranny is for the pros, alot of people aren’t coordinated enough to use manual. I didn’t know how to operate manual smoothly before but I do now since my Spec V has a six speed.
dsg are gay, wooo i can shift in 8 milisecondssss… big deal, I’d rather actually DRIVE my car. so the manual is probably .2 miliseconds quicker to 60, whats the need for that? A manual will beat a dsg around a track, with an experienced driver.
Depends on the track. If there are a lot of tight curves in which skip-shifting is an advantage, then yes. If it is more of a wide-curve track, the DSG has the advantage.
Aside from the ability to skip-shift, DSGs are simply superior performing transmissions. Sure, many people prefer manuals for the FEEL of it, but to say that manuals perform better is idiotic. Technology wins over the human arm and foot, that simple.
If the car company makes crappy manual shifters then this is good news. BMW makes some great gearboxes, so you will miss out.
I’m sticking with the row your own gears.
row your own gears……good one.
row your own gears FTW
Also automatic transmissions with an aftermarket exhaust sound lame and really boring
Transmission type has nothing to do with exhaust tone.
How did the replacing of the hated SMG with a smooth shifting DSG turn into an argument about manual vs. auto? This is GOOD news, folks. The SMG was a absolute TURD of a tranny, impossible to get smooth shifts out of and crappy in full auto mode.
Now, we get 2 great choices, yet some still whine.
The right choice for a tranny is the one YOU want on your new 60k car!
BMW oughta offer to buy back all those SMG’s just to apologize for foisting it on us.
Hey Renton, BMW does not make great manual gearboxes. Getrag makes them, and then supplies BMW with them. BMW is not in the transmission business.
PrimeGTP, you need to pay closer attention to when they shift… they sound lame, if you cant tell the difference then I dont qualify you as a true car enthusiast
And even some of Getrags trannies are crap, the one for the R53 ( old Mini S) was a POS
Madcapp, my 335i has a ZF Type G.
BMW puts a Getrag manual on the 328i and lessor models.
You can be the M3 manual will be a ZF.
I’ll take the 6-speed traditional manual.
“You know what really grinds my gears?” lol Wickedated…
Bah, nothing wrong with a DSG
It’s like a sequential manual without the clutch work
It’s totally appropriate to claim your preference for a certain tranny type, but totally silly to call other people names because their choice doesn’t match yours.
Why has this list degenerated into a smack talking, ‘my dick’s bigger than yours’, ego fest? It used to be fun to talk cars with other enthusiasts before the children showed up.
Wickedated, nice job contradicting yourself. You said yourself, the manual is about feel and the DSGs are faster. How are you going to “smoke” someone with a DSG in the same car with your manual? Are you going to FEEL your car faster?
Stick snobs need to accept the fact that performance technology is progressing. There’s nothing wrong with liking manuals, and they are really fun to tear around the block with. But to say that they are better performers than dual clutch gearboxes is simply ignorance.
Too many “enthusiasts” around these parts think that being stick-only and bashing everything else makes you cool. No, it only makes you close-minded.
i’d prefer a man. for this car, but i do sort of agree w/ wat gtp is saying, times are moving swiftly and new cars are getting neat tech savvy gadgets.
I’m going to guess most of the ’stick snobs’ in this section are from the US too, considering it’s one of the few countries where people seem to consider the ability to drive a car with a manual transmission some type of amazing feat.
You are probably right, kosai. Everywhere else in the world, you have to prove you can drive a stick, in traffic, on hills, etc. In America, you get a beat up Neon with an automatic, told to drive up and down an empty block once, and there’s your license. We should have a test like the UK’s, IMO.
Manuals with a good driver will always win, manly cuz of heal-and-toe downshifts, and double-clutch downshifting. Which of course you can’t do with DSG’s. Besides if you’re driving just for the sake of driving fast then you are a loser. If your gonna drive fast at least have fun doing it. and you can only have fun if you have a clutch pedal.
I guess every professional race driver that uses a sequential transmission is a loser.
PrimeGTP, allow me to clarify things for ya– I am a stick snob.
I love a manual transmission as much as the next guy… there’s nothing quite like side-stepping a clutch pedal at high rpms and leaving half your tires on the pavement, or kicking your clutch to initiate a powerslide or drift… but some of these posts don’t make much sense. Case in point:
Posted by Sharif on June 1:
“Manuals with a good driver will always win, manly cuz of heal-and-toe downshifts, and double-clutch downshifting. Which of course you can’t do with DSG’s.”
Any serious driver who knows anything about cars and driving them fast knows that the main reason for heel and toe downshifting is to match the engine revs to the transmission, so you don’t have a lurch and upset the vehicle balance and/or break your tires loose when the clutch is reengaged. Likewise, double clutch downshifting was made virtually obsolete by synchros on all modern transmissions, that match the gear speeds to the output shafts. Back in the day, you had to double clutch, or risk grinding all the teeth off your gears.
All the SMG’s and DSG’s do is have the computer blip the throttle to match revs, and hydraulics let the clutch in and out, and swap gears… basically doing the heel-and-toeing/double clutching for you. A modern take on the same old theory of swapping ratios, if you will. Which is better? Well, by the numbers, the computers seem to have us gear-rowers beat, but I’d still take a manual tranny over a SMG or DSG any day. That said, I don’t need a clutch pedal to have fun driving. An SMG equipped M3 is a riot, and I’ve had tons of tire smoking fun in an auto-equipped truck (F-150 Lightning).
It’s how you drive that determines the fun factor.
“Besides if you’re driving just for the sake of driving fast then you are a loser. If your gonna drive fast at least have fun doing it. and you can only have fun if you have a clutch pedal.”
Sorry, that’s a really ignorant comment. In countries outside US, the ability to drive an automatic is a skill for the elites. What’s really the point of driving a manual other than more work for your other arm and going slower than those using DSG’s. It’s just for style or making loud sounds without real substance called performance gain. The bottom line has always been the fastest is the winner, thus what all races are measured on. It doesn’t matter if you have a 200K souped up Ferrari, whoever beats you in a race be it on the track or on the street still has the final laugh.
let it be known that fast is fast no matter wat it is.
It’s funny how the Europeans always make it sound like bootcamp to get a driver’s license and they have to be so skilled to get one. It’s not like they’re just passing out licences on street corners over here in the states. We have to take written and driving tests over here too.