And true to German form, all will come standard with unreliable electronics, high maintenance costs, and nearly guaranteed 80k mile product failure.

Oh wait …. but they’re engineered by Germans, so they must be fine vehicles. Cough cough.

RicardoHead, have you ever owned a German car? Based on your constant negative comments, I don’t think you have.

Wrong sunshine. I not only have owned then (VW, Audi, and BMW) but I have managed a fleet of them for a company in Europe.

So in effect, I have a crap load of experience with them.

@sunshine1810

I own a 1992 e34 535i which is the last good 5-series and in my opinion last reliable BMW produced. Everything after that is an over-engineered, electrical nightmare!

I agree with RicardoHEadgiver on a few things: VWs are astonishingly unreliable, and BMW’s Minis are the same xxxx. However, BMW, Porsche, Benz, and Opel don’t seem to have that problem, anectodally speaking from conversations with owners of those brands

My sister owns a 2004 325xi and I own a 2006 330xi and both of us have had zero problems. These cars are not crap nor are they unreliable.

Sunshine, I would say the many many hundreds of vehicles I have experience with trump your two. Bimmers are marginally more fun to drive, but are less reliable on the whole than Audis. I never quite could figure out why Audis were more reliable (fleet-wise) than the VWs but that was the case. Bimmer electronics are crap, and the mechanical components are hyper-senstive and prone to failure. All have better apparent fit and finish than Japanese or American vehicles, but after that their advantage falls apart. As a proportion of disabled vehicles on the road here where I live, Bimmers seem to be massively overrepresented compared to the percent of sales they enjoy.

When I first got to Europe, Opels were piles of junk, but they improved drastically in a short time and today from a reliability standpoint I put the new Opels and Fords ahead of the other vehicles manufactured in Germany. Benz’s were good (not great to drive though) but not worth the extra coin, and Porsches were not useful to the fleet so I don’t care about them.

There are 4 new/newer Porshes in the parking lot here at work, though, and they need surprisingly far more maintenance than the average vehicle. A guy started one (a Boxster) the other day and a huge smoke cloud poured out the exhaust. Ask the drivers, though, and they will say “best car ever.” It’s part of the marketing delusion coupled with the fact that it is hard for people who buy their little “dreamcar” to wake up and face the truth.

We have 2 BMW’s (2003 BMW 325xi, 2007 BMW 335i Coupe) and one Audi (2000 Audi TT) in our family, and there have been barely ANY issues whatsoever. I know this doesn’t speak for the majority, but as for BMW’s, the 3 series, 5 series, 6 series, and X3 are known to be decently reliable as of now, and Audi does a good job on the A4 and TT in regards to reliability. The Germans are certainly more prone to reliability issues than the Japanese, but still, generalizing about their cars is still woefully inaccurate.

On some level I agree with Ricardo. In Europe lately Opel picked up steam with Astra, however, it is based more on quality of interior. Also, the cars shipped to states from Europe probably a bit higher quality then those that destined for their own markets. Because of different requirements for US safety and pollution controls Benz used to switch from domestic to US manufacturing in a factory for 3-5 months. I don’t know if it still done now, but it was economically more feasible in past to have conveyor to produce vehicle for US market vs. the rest. Also, driving conditions in States are quite different then in Europe, so wear and tear on vehicles will be different. American market is huge for Krauts because they sell higher profit vehicles here, not entry levels (A, B Benz and 1 series bimmers). When Audi’s were of crappy quality, they almost went under, albeit they were selling ok in Europe.
My point is that vehicles in states maybe in fact better specimen then in Europe. Also, if driven in better conditions their quality will be less taxed. However, japs onslaught in Europe in States is only because of their quality. Chauvinistic Europe does not like foreigners and their products from their continent, much less from Asia. The fact that Toyota, Honda, Nissan can survive in Europe is due pocketbook loyalty not flags. Now, Rocordo, you can start moaning how horrid jap cars are.

I know that the German car companies have a bad reputation when it comes to reliability. However, every car must go in for service at some point. If the dealer isn’t competent than the car might experience additional problems. My point being that it’s not always the car thats the problem, its also the service which can affect the reliability of a car. Besides this article is about BMW and Audi showing off their new prototypes in Tokyo, not BMW bashing.

Good call sunshine. It’s not about bashing, but everyone’s a damn critic. And by everyone I mean the Headgiver.

Yeah Lambo, you’re Mr. Positive … each and every day till you wake up.

Positive when the context is fitting to be, such as this one. Good call though regardless, head.