March21
General Motors product boss Robert Lutz has confirmed plans to build a V12 sedan, likely based on the popular Cadillac Sixteen coupe car. The luxury sedan will compete with the Mercedes S-Class and Lexus LS, according to Lutz.
Mr. Lutz said in an interview while visiting England that development is underway by Holden in Australia for the new V12 powerplant that will be used in the range-topping model.
The new V12 is essentially two 60-degree 3.6-liter V6 engines mated to a common crankshaft, according to AutoWeek magazine. Like the 1000 hp V16 Sixteen concept, the V12 Caddy will feature direct injection, cylinder deactivation, and an advanced automatic gearbox to provide reasonable fuel economy and efficiency.
Holden has reportedly built early test mule prototypes on its rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform, which underpins the new Chevy Camaro and Pontiac G8. However, the chassis might only serve as a test bed for the engine.
The engine will have 7.2 liters of displacement with 600 horsepower and 540 pound-feet of torque. It’s not known if GM plans to offer lesser versions of the sedan with V8 powerplants, as Mercedes does with its S-Class. In 2003, Lutz said he wanted to develop a Cadillac luxury sedan with three models: V8, a high-performance V8 and a V12.
Awsome! A 600 horsepower Caddy sedan. A bit over the top, but WTF! Roll with it!
now were talkin, cant wait to ee the results.
YES!! At last, something properly sophisticated coming from Cadillac! Would definitely buy this over a Mercedes S63-65 AMG.
A 600hp, sharp-looking saloon, which no-one will recognise! At last, Cadillac has seen sense. Give us a V8 Cien please…
Ass kickin’ engine!
^^^^^^ well said i agree ^^^^^^
never liked the Sixteen… for me it was the start of cadillacs bad design era…
not sure what target group cadillacs aiming for, but would love to see a presidential-style sixteen stretch limo, though ;p
Aim High.
Use that engine in a MR super car for Cadillac and I think the picture will be complete… Build it in the US that way it CAN be said that it is an American car.
with aston`s comment. ” something properly sophisticated”.
I’m sure there will be a model with the new ultra V8 thats in prototype stage. If caddy gets this right this could be epic. The sixteen is beautiful and only tweaking of the proportions will be needed to make it production ready. No clown cars please, make it a proper cadillac. 225 inches long.
In addition to my previous post, what homeboy has said above is certainly very relevant. Cadillac, you haven’t quite done it yet.
“Awsome! A 600 horsepower Caddy sedan. A bit over the top, but WTF! Roll with it!”
Couldn’t have said it better.
like all concept cars from the big three, the model rolled around to shows always dazzles, and the production version always looks like a K Car, its like they intentionally crapify the production models out of spite…well, really so they can just reuse another platform they already produce and turn this new model into nothing more than a rebadging exercise. maybe they’ll just put a caddy logo on the saab 9-5 and call it the sixteen. see! doesn’t it look just like the show car?!
see those cool wheels? gm will replace them with a plastic thingy stapled on to cheap black wheels to cut costs. oh and the grill will just be borrowed from a buick and have the cadillac mark of crap put on it. the bumpers on all models will be black to save costs and the door handles will be replaced with black plastic to save costs. the seats will only feature one patch of real leather right under your butt, inside will be all fake wood…and after all of this the car will still be more expensive than a lexus since gm has to pay off its healthcare and pension obligations.
american car builders completely saturate my shaudenfreuden (sp?) complex…i.e., my desire to get joy from the failure of others. everything they do is a flop. the bigger their plans, the bigger the flop.
^?????????????????^ moron
whoopee is an idiot, cadillac is deff. proving themselves and this will be hot.
whoa, thats awesome. If GM can suround what sounds like a marvelous engine with dramatic styling and a good looking quality interior and sell it for slightly less then a comparble benz or bentley GM will defintly have a hit. It will be also good to see an American company produce a true S-class style luxury sedan
whoopee is an idiot? Nawwwwwwwww………Idiots bow to him cause he is their King!
Whoopee, I hope you don’t live in the U.S. I would hate to think someone who does would want to see an industry that employees as many people as the auto industry in this country does fail. Whether they fail or not why would you “desire” for them to fail?
“7.2 liters of displacement with 600 horsepower and 540 pound-feet of torque”
So will there be a hybrid version???
This is what Caddy needs to build. If I can afford it, then they’re not aiming high enough!
For the same price as a Bentley Continental Flying Spur. Well for some reson the bentley look like even more of a better buy. Would rather have the S-class anyday.
With all the problems GM has, this is the LAST place I’d expect them to put their money. Then again, thats why they have problems…
sweet.
build it and make it stand out from the boring lexus ls.
Whoopee, i am also not a caddy fan myself, but that is no excuse for you to talk like a complete fukin moron. u r an idiot who doesn’t know **** about cars, and u r posting old stereotypically bull**** that your very reliable 12 yr old friend said to you. So who decided to try to act smart or funny by regurgitating little billy’s bull**** onto this site. Besides, do you really think that they are trying to make a serious profit off of this car.
i was referring to the sixteen
Do it! Do it! Do it!
okay, so all everyone can say is that i am a moron, they cannot tell me i am wrong about gm garbage
its the said state of americans (and yes, i am an american) that they cannot admit their day has passed
johnstew says:
“Whoopee, I hope you don’t live in the U.S. I would hate to think someone who does would want to see an industry that employees as many people as the auto industry in this country does fail.”
its not IF these companies fail, its WHEN, unless the govt nationalizes them
and it won’t be my snide comments that do them, its their own ineptitude, mismanagement, and inability to change.
and if you don’t think people are cheering on the demise of these dinosaurs, you clearly have never heard of the term “short seller”. somewhere on wall street is a very wealthy man whose claim to fame is shorting US automakers.
if all these companies have left is “patriotism”, i recommend they stop sending jobs to mexico
Wow oh wow, you actually think nationalization would equal efficiency? You must be a young one, because you know nothing about life.
no PrimeGTP, its was a fricking joke, see SARCASM
At some point even blowhards have to put up. It’s his turn .. or .. wait? How many turns does he get?
Whoopee, I did not ask for reasons they will fail or how it will happen I asked how you could be happy about it and want it to happen. Who are the people that want to see these “dinosaurs” go under?
Stuart, where did it say anything about matching the price of a Bentley Flying Spur? If a nice big elegant Cadillac sedan could offer a V12 with 600hp (as does the Bentley) but at a Lexus-like price point just under $100K, I think GM would more than make their money back on the project… then they could drop that same powerplant into a production Cien sports car and maximize the investment!
600hp… i guess will be priced well above the new CTS-V w/ the Corvette SS 600hp blown v8 in it
WAKE UP LINCOLN!!!!!!! FOLLOW SUIT AND FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ohh so his name is ROBERT when referring to cadillac, but its bob everywhere else, eh?
Holden knows how to build automobiles, so it has credence in its build. It will definitely draw people into the Cadillac showrooms to look at it, if nothing else.
ski59rt, do you think the cts-v will just get the 505 ls7 that already exhists and is in production rite now to keep the cost down? or just skyrocket the price by using a very limited ss blown engine that needs to be produced at an alarming rate to meet production.
the thing is…even if this car is awesome, it will only put caddy’s bad past behind. They would need a second good car to prove they’re getting better. But I actually like their new cars.
A4,
“ohh so his name is ROBERT when referring to cadillac, but its bob everywhere else, eh”
Lutz is a has-been, many others are making the actual moves—Lutz is simply an overpaid mouthpiece.
99% of all buyers will be African-American
Egbert Souse,
What is that all about? Cadillac is not ethnic-centric.
oh, other thing…it’s just a thing i have but i don’t like when an engine is bigger than 6.0l. i’m sure that the z06 7.0l is a great engine and so the new amg’s 6.0l and 6.5l, but my dad had a very bad experience with the ultra rare AMG CL700. didn’t like it at all!
johnstew says:
“Who are the people that want to see these “dinosaurs” go under?”
as i said before, the legions of people shorting their stocks, probably half of wall street.
you need to start thinking like america’s wealthy, they don’t sit around weeping and whining over what they read in the news, they think “how can i make money off of this?”
johnstew says:
“I asked how you could be happy about it”
because i have been ripped off and sold inferior products by these morons for years. i have been extremely generous in my wallet and patience to detroit, and they produce resounding failures again and again. now i am cruel but fair, i will likewise never buy another VW as long as i live.
Nice one Caddy. If your to be famous for something, Its land YACHTS.. I say keep em big. I like the current designs, how expensive could it get? Option that sucker up,
honestly tho, If the engine is “two V6’s mated on a common crankshaft”
then why coulden’t they just mate two V8’s? Go for it! no one has it, they will have to buy it.
KEEP IT 16!!
F451, maybe that was a bit of exaggeration, but the rappers are gonna love it.
And acura if I’m not mistaken didnt VW already do that with the Bugatti? Or was that 2 4.0 litre W8’s from the passat?
CTS Driver….the February ‘07 Motor Trend has a short article on the new CTS-V…its the picture of the car with the crazy zig-zag camo. They claim GM wants to dominate the BMW M5 with the 600hp CTS-V
Autonutt - Read the post from a few ago and you will find something about Caddy considering a $170k car. Now for that price I would rather take a Bentley anyday. Hell I rather have the two mercedes S-classes
“99% of all buyers will be African-American”
~Syrax
Is that a bad thing? If those African-American’s can afford it then why complain about it? Do you think that African-American’s shouldn’t have nice cars?
good move for Caddy, but id much rather see a new coupe in their line up even if it would be unaffordable for most people. the XLR is a nice touch,but they need to build a replacement for the ElDorado
Best news in a long time, besides the 2008 CTS. This will be awesome. How can people say they would take a S600 over this when they haven’t even seen it yet? This car is gonna be the new car that people aspire to own. It will have style and class that the bland German cars can’t match and will have direct-injected V12 performance to back it up. My only suggestion is to tune it on the Nurburgring so that the American car-haters can’t say it only goes in a straight line. Also, I’m still waiting for a Cadillac Z4 competitor.
“99% of all buyers will be African-American”
~Syrax
Is that a bad thing? If those African-American’s can afford it then why complain about it? Do you think that African-American’s shouldn’t have nice cars?
Comment by Kenny W, posted on March21 at 7:03 pm
>>I didn’t say that. it was Egbert Souse, and I agree with you.
and…v-series, the CLS and S AMG, and most of S and RS line are anything but bland.
Toppling the Mercedes high-end will not be an easy thing to do. Where Cadillac will probably get the most notoriety (paid for by the US taxpayers) is on Capitol Hill with armored versions of these (What is the new name, now that it is no longer the Sixteen?) moving all those lazy-ass politicians (paid for by the US taxpayers) around. But, it is always good to have local representation when showing-off your government, and it would be either Cadillac or Ford.
Syrax,
My bad. LLN needs a damn quote button.
whoopee, the reason no one responded with why you were wrong is because every outrageous point you made wasn’t worth replying to… black plastic bumpers??? Fake wood…??? c’mon man. I think people like you are running out of reassons to hate American cars and are starting to implode.
Well, at least GM is innovating now. This is great, keep it up!
Interesting…..but they will need a put a lot into this car to compete with the best from gernamy.
put the 8 speed auto in it
Whoopee your an idiot
Im Australian therefore have no loyalty toward american cars or car makers, but i thinkk it is clear that cadillac is on the way up and this should be an amazing car.
I love the idea, but I fear the execution. Its not long ago Lutz was talking about using a Zeta platform to make an executive car with a long front module, long mid-section wheelbase module and long rear module. This would mean long front and rear overhangs, a wheelbase that is too short and compromised handling.
.
Here’s hoping this car gets the bespoke platform it deserves and needs to compete - It would be great to see Cadillac making a serious stab at regaining its former (1930’s) glory. This is far more appropriate than the Cien, which is surely answering a question nobody asked. Even VW had the nous to drop their supercar concept.
europerspective: this is exactly what will happen. the will make a 30 ft limo of the sixteen, with a 2 ft wheelbase… looking forward for the marvelously looking overhangs… or maybe they could even save more by using the opel/saturn/vauxhall astra platform :p
whoopee, I love your point about Wall Street. Wall Street is good part of the reason the U.S. is sending all of it jobs to Mexico and China “Who cares if no one in the U.S. has the money to buy the products we are selling but it sure looked good on paper last quarter didn’t it?” Wake up and smell what you are shoveling man. It’s getting to the point the only thing we make in this country is hamburgers and porn and a lot of that has to do with Wall Street and the rich greedy bastards that would send your job out of this country if it made the stock price go up a quarter of a point. I was laid off in 2002 so my salary and benefits could pad the bottom line because some anaylist had the numbers wrong (they were 10 million shy of what they said they would make in profit that quarter, they were not losing money just not making as much as they expected). I did not feel bad for myself it was the people 2 years from retirement getting laid off after 30 years of working there that was hard to watch….and all so they could keep a bunch of stock holders happy.
It’s OK for you to not want to buy another american car or another VW but wishing the company would go out of business is stupid and wrong. It would be like going into a trailer park and saying “I don’t want to live like this….you people should all die” and then being happy when it happened.
It will be a very difficult task even getting close to the Germans. Mercedes S-Class has been the most innovative car since it come out and has some seriously innovative comapanies behind it. BOSCH alone had some couple of hundred innovative products like ABS, ESP, Bluetec, Etc.., that they will only show in the S-class and no one else even BMW. They then license the product after a few years to other companies.
Another bad thing for this car will be the fact that it will probably appear the same time as the New BMW 7-Series and facelifted S-class.
We’ll have to wait and see Stuart. GM has plenty of tricks up their sleeves as well. The first and foremost area this Sixteen will pummel the S Class is looks. The Sixteen is gorgeous, and I can’t say the same thing about the S Class. (The CLS on the other hand is a work of art!) We’ll see what other features come out. This is a new market for GM, the ultra-luxury, I doubt they will hit it out of the park on their first swing. But it will be something that is very competitive.
I’m glad that they’re building this sedan. I liked the sixteen a lot.
“Egbert Souse”: You’re just mad cuz brothers are doing their thing.
CTS Driver….the February ‘07 Motor Trend has a short article on the new CTS-V…its the picture of the car with the crazy zig-zag camo. They claim GM wants to dominate the BMW M5 with the 600hp CTS-V
Comment by sik59rt, posted on March21 at 6:42 pm
SKI59RT, SWEET THANKS FOR THE INFO, I FIGUEED THEY WOULD GO WITH THE 505, BUT 600 IS EVEN BETTER.
Is Cadillac ready….to challenge the big playas? i dont think so. It might be a better pimp mobil but thats it
As I said before, I would much rather have this over the S-Class, but I might take a CLS 55 AMG over the Sixteen…
but while their at it, why not just make a V16 1000hp car. Now that would be cool even if it were to be rubbish
55AMG, THEY SHOULD JUST BOLT A COUPLE LS7`S TOGETHER, JUST THINK 1010NA HP, THE VEYRON NEEDS 4 TURBOS TO DO IT WITH ITS 16 CYLINDERS. NOT THAT IM SAYING A 16 CYLINDER CADDY CAN BEAT THE VEYRON.
Attention!!!!! GM !!!!!!
Step away from the parts-bin interiors, you will be safe, I promise. Your tommorow will look brighter.
That’s it, walk away from the bin…..good work !!!!!
It’s great to see that while every company was scrambling during the 1990s to have AWD cars, GM’s Holden all the way down under still retained the values of RWD as well. Thanks to them GM might actually see a nice resurgence in the next 5-10 years.
Syrax, I like the CLS, but Audi’s are extremely bland, they are some of the most vanilla cars on the planet. They have square grilles, square headlights, and are usually driven by liberal homos from Massachusetts.
These hyper-sensitive PC control freaks are amazing. I have not seen a single LLN story about the Camaro, Monte Carlo, NASCAR, El Camino, etc that didn’t include a dozen or so redneck and hill-billy comments that are always tolerated. Why is the comment V-Series made any different? Why the iron-fist demanding silence and passing judgment? Try less authority and a little more tolerance.
v-series, how would you classify caddy’s grill and headlights then? rounded?
Caddilac can’t even make a s-class rival good enough to go against the c-class let alone s-class. The ocean drive looked wasy better then the Cady sixteen and S-class put together. I hear that is what the next s-class will look like so it should be interesting. This on the other hand won’t even make Audi (let alone Mercedes and BMW) lose a wink of sleep.
the ocean drive is absolutely my least favorite mb of all time. i would still take any caddie over any mb, the caddy will at least have less “unscheduled maintenance visits”. now bmw makes cars i love, but not mb, i hate the whole mb mindset, at least bmw is a drivers car.
didn’t like the ocean drive either…mostly for that delorean rims…mb always needs to have a billion spoke rim. wouldn’t take a caddie over benz though…let’s wait and see
To: GMnumber14ever
From: LLN
re: We were wrong
.
We were wrong: you’re not the biggest idiot posting on LLN. You’re are not really all that detached from reality after all. Thing were much better before woopee came along.
come back. all is forgiven. we miss you.
^^^lol…ouch.
double lol^^^^
Stuart.. sorry I missed the previous article about the $170K Caddy.. that is woefully typical GM.. finally get something right and then completely screw up on the rest! It would make no sense to jump from the top $80K STS (which is a joke in itself) to a $170K super sedan.
FINALLY !!!!!! GM is doing something other than cutting cost and rebadging cars. i don’t know how good their luxury capabilities are, but at least they are finally making a product that remotely stirs my interest.