March12
General Motors is faced with several major decisions about the future of its Cadillac brand, according to a new report. Over the next three months, executives will have to decide which models to move forward with as it enters the second phase of its revival.
According to trade publication Automotive News, the following projects are under consideration, and will be either set into motion or scrapped in over the next few months:
A Cadillac CTS Coupe and CTS wagon, positioning the model line squarely against the BMW 3-Series. GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz says the automaker has already built clay models of these cars.
An ultra-luxury sedan or coupe inspired by the Cadillac Sixteen concept or an exotic sports car based on the 2002 Cien concept (pictured). Lutz says the luxury Sixteen would produce higher sales, but the Lamborghini-like Cien would cost less to make. Such a vehicle would be priced at more than $150,000, the report said.
An entry-level model priced under $30,000. Cadillac General Manager Jim Taylor is reluctant, but Bob Lutz favors the idea. Either way, it won’t be Europe’s BLS sedan.
Lastly, the company must decide whether to discontinue the front-wheel-drive DTS. Bob Lutz favors phasing out the model and focusing on the rear-drive STS. Taylor said GM might keep the DTS nameplate, but build the next-generation model on GM’s Zeta platform.
Forget ‘based on’, just make the bloody Cien, complete with XV12 Northstar. The only, and I mean only thing that I would change, would be to scrap the digital instrument panel for a set of high-class analog gauges a la Zonda. Other than that, the car is fantastic.
A CTS coupe would be rather nice as well, considering I don’t see $150,000+ in my wallet any time soon.
Nice plans.
build the cien its beautiful. cts coupe should be 300 hp and awd if i am going to be interested in it. i thought the srx was a cts wagon its the same platform, but i guess the srx it too tall to be a wagon.
Well homeboy…
GM might pull their act together and rule the roost again. Protectionist legislation is coming too. Asian imports are unfairly priced because of currency.
But does Caddy need this car?……….profitabily is in the numbers. Make cars that will sell!! or has GM fogotten what they learned so far?
As we say in the Military,
“Amateurs talk about strategy, but professionals talk about logistics.” If GM carry-out 10% of what they planned, then they would rule the world. Too bad they don’t
I think that is too be said for any American car company. If they built 1/3 of the concept cars they waste time building they would see alot more, but instead we get these watered down bean counter cars. They need to understand that consumers want quality..not quantity. If you build a good looking quality car..people will come.
Awww homeboy, you poor widdle ting, did da big bwad GM hurt you? GM not pwaying nice wif you? Go have mommy kiss it. It’s funny to watch these haters come unhinged as GM improves their product.
They all sound like good ideas to me, some for image-boosting purposes and some for sales. Most important though is maintaining their new found attention to detail.
It will be interesting to see how well the second-generation CTS does before heading further in its lineup diversity. The Cadillac Sixteen is certainly nice, but what a luxury jump from a car manufacturer that needs to solidify its basic lineup. The DTS needed to be dumped two years ago. The Cien would be a showroom draw, like the initial Viper was to Dodge—revamp, and build it. Lutz needs to retire.
The Sixteen or the Cien? Make money or make happy? Right now, make the freaking Sixteen and take the limiter off the XLR. That should work in the mean time. After All, GM needs to make money for long term success. That doesn’t mean forgoing building the Cien or something like it.
Build a Pontiac version maybe then a balls-out V12 Cadillac version not unlike the relationship the Audi R8 coupe has with the Lamborghini Gallardo. I wouldn’t call the Pontiac Fiero, but it wouldn’t be that far out of place, for around $40k-50k.
CTS coupe and sport wagon and sub-$30k entry level Caddy? DO IT!!! DO IT NOW!!!
Blakkarr, I thought we agreed to shutdown Pontiac
I do agree with you on an entry-level Cadillac. The Sixteen is beautiful…I just don’t know whether it would sell in GM’s climate today? Maybe yes, maybe no? Stretch? The Sixteen would draw people into the showrooms. The Fiero was another GM car that took on a life of its own only to transform from essentially a commuter car to and enthusiast car, but in typical GM fashion GM worked the kinks out, and thereafter dumped it.
$150,000 for a Cadillac? My chicken salad almost came out my nose.
Cadillacs should be subtly baroque and have fins.
“$150,000 for a Cadillac? My chicken salad almost came out my nose.”
Hey, who would’ve though Chevrolet would be dishing out $70,000 Corvettes left right and centre?
does the use of “or” in the discussion of the sixteen and cien mean we will see one of them in production?
nicktheskater: But the Corvette has crediblity in the sports car segement and is a good value since it outperforms its competition. (read hits all the 0-60, top speed, etc. numbers)
I am curious as to the how well the new Audi R8 is going to do long-term. Initially, I think it’ll do great, but as time goes on interest may wane like it did with the Acura NSX.
With above average premium price you pay TODAY for a new Cadillac car and the poor quality you get for it…. WHO in their ever-loving mind is going to pay 150K for a status symbol that lost it’s balls 25 years ago.
Sorry, forgot about the hip-hop people out there.
I’m a Young Caddy fan and I want the brand to do well. Cadillac should focus all attention and resources to building a true s class, 750i and Ls460 competitor. It should be the length of the current DTS, with sixteen concept car styling cues and should top out at 80k. Leave the niche products for later down the road when the brand’s luster has been fully restored.
It should be built an a larger sigma or modified zeta platform and use the new “ultra” v8
Get Real,
“WHO in their ever-loving mind is going to pay 150K for a status symbol…” People in this league will pay for it only if it has the goods. The Sixteen is a sink-or-swim proposition—no middle ground to save or help it. A very high-risk proposition for Cadillac.
How is a 150k cadillac coupe competing squarely with the 3 series?? The 335i is less than half the price. Yeah this should sell like hot cakes.
hmmm, lets see, i have $150k to spend on a car, do i buy a porsche with aftermarket work, a ferrari, a lambo, or a CADILLAC??????? haha you have to be fricking kidding me. at this price range don’t even bother trying to trot out a turd name like cadillac against the world’s elite road rockets.
by the way this car looks terrible
this is almost as funny as the supercar chrysler threatened to unleash a few years back (looks similar too). sure…hey, you know i really liked the ferrari but decided to go with the CHRYSLER! haha
OK ENOUGH CADDY BASHING, YOUR EUROTRASH CARS DONT EVEN STAY TOGETHER, ILL TAKE A CAR WITH A CHEAP INTERIOR THAT RUNS OVER A CAR WITH A NICE INTERIOR THAT DOESNT RUN. WITH THE PRICE OF YOUR EUROCARS THEY SHOULD ACTUALLY BE RELIABLE, WHAT GIVES?
$150k for the FORD GT.. didn’t sell either. This Cadillac won’t be any different. No room for the supercars with american badges.
And homeboy… all you do is bash GM. we get it.. you don’t like GM. thanks. now shut up. try putting something up here truely constructive.
At the moment, Cadillacs are very lame cars. We don’t see them at all in Europe, nor do we care about them. However, the stunning Cien and Sixteen concepts did turn heads back here. Therefore, a mean, mad V8 American coupe would probably go down well. It would have to be built in limited numbers, to get exclusivity. I would like this sort of thing. It has character and soul, much unlike the Porsche’s and Mercedes’ that we see too much of. The Cien should be built, and like other truly desirable cars, there would be a “wow” factor. It would stand out from the fleets of SL’s and 911’s. Additionally, the Cadillac would be like no other, the only Caddie on the road. However, it will be very difficult for Cadillac. Firstly, do they have the balls to make it, and secondly, it will have to be really very very special for people to buy it here i.e. it will have to be as fast as or faster than equivalent German cars, otherwise everyone will dismiss it as another hopeful American effort at getting some sales in Europe. I don’t care what platform or what engine, just make it frighteningly fast, please.
The same story goes for the Sixteen. I don’t think the 16-cylinder engine will make it into production. Cadillac should be aware that if they do build this, it will be competing against the class-leading Mercedes S-Class, or, if they go higher up in the market, it would be pitched against Rolls-Royces and Bentleys
thank you CTS DRIVER… here’s an update on reliability. saw this report last week. 11 out of every 100 asian cars have problems, 16 out of 100 american cars have problems, and 19 out of 100 european cars have problems.
CTS coupe/wagon - yes
luxo sedan - yes
exotic - yes
kill the DTS
revive it with a RWD improvement.
The Cien is a bad ass car, if you can’t appreciate this cars style you have got to be blind.
Here is a better pic of this bad boy!
[IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/cadillac_cien.jpg[/IMG]
Kill the DTS.
Stop any plans for any more front wheel drive Cadillacs.
Cadillac is a luxury performance brand and everything about the cars should attest to this. Front wheel drive stops at $16,000 for me.
I think Cadillac needs to produce a high-end sedan before a supercar, though I would love to see a production Cien sometime in the future. Kill the DTS, the STS is enough in that price segment. I don’t see the need for an entry level car. They tried that with the Catera and look what happened.
F451,
Go burn a book, “fireman”. Your ignorance and annoyance knows few bounds. Fear of knowledge in favor of the easy answer is all you seem to espouse. You do not amuse me. Humor me in not pretending that you do.
If you don’t like Pontiac, then you don’t. I really don’t care. But don’t use me as prop for your bad comedy.
Mim1703,
The Ford GT sold like crazy… at nearly twice the price… to collectors and speculators. You won’t see many if any because they have all been locked away. You won’t see them racing because of the same reason. FORD made the bone head decision to make only about 4500 or so over, I think, it was 3 years and telling the world thus. It could have been a perennial or legacy car, one that doesn’t go away, like the Mustang.
If GM goes that route, they will be better served to have two versions. Since I doubt they would want a MR sports car next to the Corvette, the best option would be Pontiac, to sell the numbers to solidly make back their money on such a platform, if it is a totally new car from scratch. The XLR is a bit disappointing for a $90K car, but it would never be possible without the Corvette. Thusly, A Pontiac version, as the Performance division, makes best sense, to field such a car. Of course, the Cadillac version would be far more powerful, posh, and equipped like a typical supercar. But then the Pontiac version, would be more likely to earn kudos as a racer and not a status symbol, this would only help the Caddy and Pontiac.
Such a car is still a big “IF”, however. GM killed off the Fiero because of a number of reasons. First, the obvious one is that The Fiero was badly marketed and marketed to women and not men who would want such a car as a weekend racer. It was a great car from the world go but add the engine that was later known as Oldsmobile’s Quad4 and it smoked the C4 Vettes of the time. this leads to reason two, The Fiero could beat the Vette and the execs did not want that, so instead of learning from this and improving the Vette that, GM killed the Fiero. So aside from the Firebird, Pontiac had nothing through those dark years in Detroit.
The Sixteen not sell? Such a car would HAVE to be a low volume production, about 2000 units or less a year, but the list of buyers would be long enough in the world as a whole, at the very least. Trust me there are stars, moguls, entertainers, and so on will buy one in a heartbeat. You won’t see one on every street corner, thank goodness, but it would make quite a statement when you do.
Also typically, low volume high dollar cars make a LOT more money per unit, than mainstream cars do. Going for the brass ring with a Sixteen and/or a Cien would not be a losing deal for GM and plus for Cadillac almost no matter what.
“A Cadillac CTS Coupe and CTS wagon, positioning the model line squarely against the BMW 3-Series”
- did i read that correctly??.. i dont see any american company making a better car than my 3 series bmw. they dont have a chance in this highly competitive sector. look at what clarskon has to say about american cars. lol. and he is GOD.
^^^Just because GMs production is not up to par with BMW doesn’t mean they can’t produce a 3-series competitor. I bet the new CTS will steal some sales from BMW here in the States.
Blakkarr,
I wouldn’t call Ford’s decision to cap production at 1500 GTs stupid. They are instead protecting largest base of customers - collectors and speculators.
I would call Ford’s decision to continue to employ Mark Fields stupid.
GM needs to build a coupe and wagon version of the CTS.
Cien, Sixteen, or both, it doesn’t matter, JUST DO IT!!!
Entry level Cadillac? Sure.
Rename & restyle the DTS, put it on the Zeta platform, and move it up to compete with the S-class, 7-series, and A8. Make a V version to compete with the AMG and S8.
Blakkarr,
If ford made 100k GT’s in one year they would NEVER sell them all. manufacturers produce low numbers on supercars to keep demand high and to protect buyers on their investments.
sub $30k caddy? hum, i wonder what that would be. maybe a solstice/sky type convertible for cadillac?
Stig,
I never said FORD was stupid for building only so many 4500 GTs (1500 a year for 3 years), I meant that it was stupid to tell the world that. It would have been nice for a few non-factory racing teams to have gotten their hands on a few to race and really prove this cars mettle. But FORD did make a mint on the car didn’t they?
MiM1703,
My contention is not that FORD should have built hundreds of thousands of GTs (that’s just lame no matter how you look at it), but to keep building them, much like how Dodge builds only a couple thousand, I think only 3500, Vipers a year and returns a high sticker for them (I honestly think The Viper is worth only $50K not $90K). It is a regular production car at a low volume but high price. FORD could have easily gone this route, continuing production at a Low volume, maybe much lower Production, about 1500 a year, would have been better for the car in the long run and the company as well.
Low volume High dollar cars return higher profits per unit, after all. What easier way to grab some cash than to have a car that demands a high sticker but not so high that the deep pockets of collectors, speculators, and professional racers, will not pass it up. As it was, Pro-racers skipped because of the price and the fact that they may not be able to get parts for it or even a replacement car after a couple of years. “weekend warriors” with the money couldn’t get their hands on one anyway at the normal sticker price.
Collectors and speculators buy only once. Racers and enthusiasts with deep pockets are repeat buyers. More business, more money. See the logic?
Scrap everything they suggested except for the Cien and Sixteen
Blakkarr,
Pontiac, in many ways, is a joke these days. Period. The G6 can be moved into the Chevrolet lineup. You are willing to keep GM an albatross just to maintain a division(s) that needs to be shutdown? Wow! There’s some real brainpower to allow GM to compete with real-world dynamics. Pontiac as a performance division is past its prime by a few decades—it has been borrowing from Peter to pay Paul for far too long. The XLR was great for its day, but it’s dated as hell, and any owner feels the immediate sinking feeling the second they drive off the lot—the feeling of Titanic-sized depreciation. The Sixteen would probably sell to some collectors (like you say), and a nationalists, but let’s get real—GM has more important things to do with the organization. The Fiero would have never competed with the Corvette. Period. You are under the assumption that if GM sold Holdens’ the American public would not understand the concept. This is making the assumption that the American buyer is ignorance, and only understands rebadging, and grafting. Wow! GM currently doesn’t have the “luxury” clout they need, and it will take time to rebuild that image. I am not saying that they cannot do it, I am saying it will take time. Oh yeah…go pound sand. Better yet take a job at Pontiac. You can be the Head Grafter (aptly referred to as Mr. Potato Head) for the G8.
CTS coupe.. why not? CTS wagon.. SRX is close enough. Cien would be nice if they could keep it closer to the $100K (cien) mark, and develop a nice exclusive powerplant to allow it to rival Lambo, Ferrari, and even the Corvette Blue Devil. And if they are going to develop that powerplant for the Cien, why not also drop it into an nice Sixteen-like flagship $100K sedan to rival Flying Spur, Quattroporte and S600 for hundreds of thousands less? With $70K loaded STS sedans already out there, it seems the logical progression for this marque, not an entry-level BLS.
wow, i didnt know the DTS was FWD…
homeboy234: no, the only death here will be your own.
Meh, Sixteen or Cien seems like a waste of resources. CTS coupe and wagon seem like good ideas, but they would need to change the SRX to a more SUV-like crossover I think, or change it to the new CTS style and market it as like an “Allroad” or “XC” version of the CTS wagon. An entry-level sub-$30k Cadillac seems like a great idea if it’s not like a rebadged Cobalt (Cimarron?) but more like a 1-Series. And kill the DTS, and try to get those drivers into Buicks, I think it’d be a more natural fit anyway. = D
As for CTS DRIVER, I think that a coupe would be available with AWD or RWD just like the sedan, and same for the motors. Which would be good, because no way would I want an AWD one.
Build the Cien, with a very limited run, less than the Z06 has been produced. Build the CTS coupe, remove FWD from Cadillac permanently, and DON’T build an entry-level model. The V6 CTS is entry enough for GM’s luxury brand. Besides, GM has to show that they can actually build a new entry-level car rather than just badgineer another Epsilon car before I’ll trust them with that.
F451,
You don’t like Pontiac, thats fine. We have nothing to discuss on the subject. If GM thought Pontiac wasn’t worth the time they wouldn’t spend the the time or money on it. Your assumptions about the division are based solely on your opinions and not the facts looking you in the face. As for the G6, I will not get into that for one reason. We already know, or maybe you don’t, that the G6 is a stop gap until a new RWD car is built. For those who didn’t know, Pontiac is being revamped to be rid of all FWD cars. When they are done there will not be any FWDs. Simple I think. Of course, You’d know this is you we not trying to make the worl d believe your POV as if it were fact. For now the G6 is serving Pontiac well and it isn’t being moved.
Of course, I realize that what you are saying is Opinion and you can’t stand that someone out there is doing the math and the research to obtain facts… not opinions. This is one reason why this is my last blurb to you, fireman. You simply haven’t a real clue.
You know very little about the XLR to start. But that doesn’t matter you’ll just “Nah-uh it’s this”. You like so many people on this forum, or whatever, can’t stand when some one actually is right more often than you are. You have to make hugely sweeping statements about people in general to sound as if you are the one who is right when all you are doing s making baseless statements to TRY to sound informed.
On the Fiero, I am not wrong about the car being able to beat a C4 Corvette, Not a ZR-1, but a standard C4 at the least. But for someone who claimed before that no one, I’ll read that you mean you, cares about the history of the mark, you seem to care a lot about the image of a particular car that you do seem to care about. The Fiero was a very good car and, as I said with the right engine, It could beat a Vette. Tough to swallow that that was a major reason why GM canned the car. But true. Ever really wonder why GM never fielded more sports cars that the Corvette until recently? So have I.
“You are under the assumption that if GM sold Holdens’ the American public would not understand the concept. This is making the assumption that the American buyer is ignorance, and only understands rebadging, and grafting.”
I never made the assumption but the time and effort to sell a Holden is far more difficult to do in America than to re-badge it as a Pontiac, especially when GM was moving to re-make Pontiac as a division and they needed the sports car for the job. I would submit you are ignorant that you can not see the bigger picture or refuse to see it. I’m sure GM even did the studies to make see if they could just sell the GTO as a Holden. Guess what they found? It had to be a Pontiac or it would be ignored more than it was. But it got the ball rolling. Re-badging is a necessary evil, one I don’t think you understand very well.
I’m sure you’re fine with your little image of a world without Detroit. I’ll live if it comes to that, but in the meantime, I’m watching. If you were you’d understand what it is I see and have more faith in GM.
That said, there are better ways to get me to talk. But you’ll never have the chance yourself to use them. So, why bother?
All of these new Cadillacs are going to be amazing. I like every idea they have, and I hope they build most of them. One car I would like to see from Cadillac someday would be a Z4 fighter, priced from 30-40k, in both coupe and convertible form, with a V-series version priced around 55k.
ultra v8?
Blakkarr,
Face it, unfortunately, GM is now on the downside of car manufacturing. You remind me of the GM advertisement inserts in the magazines—I tear them out, and toss them in the trash because of their propaganda with little substance. GM has spent time and money on failing divisions before—the outcome is still the same. GM can try to infuse life back into Pontiac through transplanting the Solstice, and G8, but a lineage this does not make. I did get a good laugh out of your Fiero statements. GM cans it because GM officially states it had poor sales, and costs; you state it was a threat to the Corvette! LMAO
F451, Blakkarr actually stated that the Fiero had poor sales due to being marketed poorly, with none of its performance capabilities being taken advantage of…
I also find it funny that you think only GM talks themselves up in advertisements. News flash, that’s the whole point of advertising. Keep up the “I-CANT-HEAR-YOU-LA-LA-LA” GM hatred.
I think if I saw a Cadillac Sixteen rumbling down Park Avenue, I would be more than a little impressed. Hell, I think I would be more impressed than if I saw a Phantom.
The CIEN would make a nice next generation Corvette (C7).
The lines more fitting of a vette than a caddy anyways. Chevy vette divison has given much to Caddy in the past … its time Caddy division returns the favor.
What caddy needs to concentrate on is building luxury sedans to compete with likes of BMW’s M3/M5’s … and the Benzs.
GM needs to build the car. Kill bull**** brands like Buick & Pontiac and most of Chevrolet and start making kick ass cars. With the exception of Hummer, Saturn and Cadillac, their brands are way too tarnished to even continue on. Keep the Vette and that’s about it.
For the life of me I will never understand why American car companies cannot make cars that rival Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. WTF is their problem?
Don’t try to equal the other brands - build cars that blow them away in style, quality and performance. Forget about the price. Get creative w/ the financing if you have to, but build some kick ass cars.
I wish I was CEO of GM. Arrrrgggh.