“In effect, these laws would doom some vehicle manufacturers to certain suicide, spending untold quantities of money on products customers don’t want to buy”
Wow, like we’ve never heard that arguement before. I guess that’s why Americans continue to buy more fuel efficient Japanese and European cars while American manufacturers continue to wallow in SUV and truck sales.

i say go for it. it might “doom” a few companies, but i just want to see how it plays out.

I really think they ought to Require Drivers proof of necessity of large vehicle ownership their carrying more than their own dirty ass to work in anything larger than a subcompact car or outlaw larger SUV’s altogether.

You know these mothers that say they have a large family does’nt cut it. You can’t drive your kids one place everywhere.

People Driving Ford Expeditions, Hummers, and other large vehicles MUST carry other people to and from work. Its that simple and/or REALLY have a valid excuse meaning they have a load they carry everyday to own one.

If not they can not buy one and their would be Heavy fines for any violation in this regard.

Fat chance.

Stupid. Absolute rubbish.

This places an impossible burden on the auto industry as well as taking away the individual right of car ownership and choice.

Hey the carmakers should have done this years ago. What took them so long. The Oil companies they were in cahoots with

Why, instead of mileage laws, doesn’t the federal government do a law that states, that every ton of CO2 has to be removed out of the cycle again (be it with trees, weird reactors, whatever people come up with) by the producer of it.

So gas companies would have to plant trees or whatever for every liter of fuel they sell, powerplants, factories, etc. the same.

That would result in a) an Internalization of the external costs, meaning that people would directly pay for what they are doing instead of reaping the rewards in form of hurricanes and floods in 30 years.
b) Efficiency would only be used as far as it is cheaper than to just plant trees instead.
Why build a hybrid that is 10 grand more expensive and only has a 20% fuel efficiency increase if you can just get rid of the CO2 another way?
Rather drive a regular car and pay more fuel (because the CO2-ridding is included in that)

In the end, the most efficient solutions would prevail and it wouldn’t matter if you drive a Smart or a GMC TopKick, because al the CO2 gets taken out of the atmosphere again..

Probably trucks would get more efficient though, because it would save the consumer money.. Basically it is engaging the market to help us fight CO2, which is the only way it is gonna work well.

Anyone get what I’m saying?

Once again (as with water and emission), Cali is making everyone else pay the price instead of bucking up and solving their own problem. Hello, Mass transit?

Nobody, not even the Japanese or Europeans will be able to make these standards without passing huge cost to the consumer. Alternative fuels are no where near being ready. Diesels are filthy and expensive and to clean them up, they will jump from a $2500 premium to $6500. Where are they going to get electricity to charge battery powered vehicles, when Cali’s grid is already overtaxed? Ethanol is nearly doubling the price of feed corn and will be driving up the price of pork and other meats that depend on it. Hybrids may be reasonable, but they again, carry an oppressive premium in initial cost that will probably never be made up in the 3-5 years people pay on cars.

Not to mention, we’ve been through this all before. The same thing happened with emissions in the seventies and eighties and it pretty much choked the joy out of owning a car. The complexities took twenty years for the enginerds to get sorted out and start making reasonably powered and decently maintainable vehicles.

Instead of forcing others to should the burdens of Califorina’s over population, California needs to invest in their meto areas like most others did decades ago. They need to set up mass/rail transit systems and make it palatable for people to use.

El Aleman, I’m gettin’ what your sayin’ but the problem is that funky CO2 reactors don’t exist and there is no where near enough unplanted, fertile land to support the tree approach.

I don’t see any problem with this proposed legislation. Toyota has Prius (and more to come) and GM will have Volt (and platform-mates) and others will follow suit. People that want something desireable can go to their closest neighbouring state and buy whatever else they want. Maybe they’ll be forced to buy used but this will not stop people from having the vehicle they want.

Have fun driving $40,000 3 cyl diesel hybrids Californians, but hey the weather is beautiful in Cali.

The industry doesn’t care if you want to buy a small, efficient car. Almost all auto companies build them (including GM and Ford), even if only a few sell them in North America. What they really don’t like about CAFE is being asked to sell them, without any incentive in place for people to buy them. In other countries, where an average car is a Golf or Astra, fuel taxes are much higher, annual taxes and registration charges are much higher for cars using more fuel etc. etc.. And guess what, American car companies make more money selling cars in this environment than they do in the US (people pay for efficiency and dynamics instead of size and avoirdupois). CAFE and cheap fuel gets you people driving Suburbans and the world’s largest, and therefore least efficient, sedans and minivans. Jacking up CAFE still further won’t change that. If anything, people will feel even less incentive to downsize to smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles, like GM’s pint-sized Chevy Spark (the world’s most popular minicar, just 3.5 m long and with 0.8 or 1.0 L engines), or the Astra-based Opel Zafira, at one time the world’s smallest 7-seat minivan and which spawned a host of imitators (the Mitsubishi Chariot was 20 years ahead of its time and possibly too small).

While I think 44mpg is certainly possible I would rather stick to the 35 by 2020. It’s a bit less upsetting to automakers and less disconcerting to customers. After a certain point companies will be touting F/econ numbers like they do horsepower numbers now. Getting both high up is the next challenge and I don’t think anyone is actually thinking that way.

So for me, for now, 35mpg by 2020 is the better choice.Trying to force the issue is just wrong right now. Though if we wait too long such painful steps could become necessary.

You know what the beauty of the current system is? You can buy whatever you want, without consequences! Instead, somebody else picks them up in the form of air pollution and dump sites. Now I don’t know about YOU guys, but that’s beauty in ITSELF

But really, the beauty of it is you CAN buy whatever car you want. Would you believe that American cars are more clean than European ones? Coming to the conclusion that just because we use more fuel doesn’t mean our vehicles individually make more emissions.

I’ll leave Global Warming for others to offer as an argument, none of that for me. If you continue to approve of people to capitalize off of this, and approve of them taking millions of acres from land loving people, HERE in America, upcoming taxes and trade regulations, and choking your rights, then that’s your problem. And don’t jump to the conclusion I don’t understand Global Warming either.

heart64- Then that would be communism.

Jimbus- Very much agreed on the mass transportation statement.
Not so much a Metro like D.C., but something more long range than that…

bcjohnso99- Where does it say there isn’t enough free land to plant trees for every few gallons of gas sold? That sounds like an alright solution to me, not very expensive unless it includes ownership of the land, and may turn into a good short term investment and good for advertisement.
A billion gallons for one million? 10 million trees?

California – you are NOT the federal government. You don’t get to set the standards. Having these other states support you is fine, but why don’t you do things the right way and get a 44 MPG cafe bill passed by Congress and signed by the president?

Imagine what would happen if every state set their own fuel economy standards. All automakers would have to make their cars different for nearly every state. That is like configuring cars for 50 different countries which would push R&D costs out of this world.

The only positive I can see is that if they did that, China and India would never be able to afford to dump their ****ty cars on our shores because they won’t have the money to meet regulations.

44 mpg by the year 2020? that is just ridiculous, we dont even have that kind of technology at an affordable price yet. That would also kill so many companies its not even funny. California is ri-goddamn-diculous.

I’d laugh at this **** if I didn’t live in a province where our Premier (equivalent of a Governor for my American friends) wasn’t in bed with Swartzenegger already. Not only has Canada decided to adopt the US CAFE standards but to make matters worse British Columbians are about to be hit with a so called Carbon Tax. This is yet another hit to our disposable income in the name of reducing our carbon footprint- in other words a cash grab based on fuel taxes.

So California, you’re not alone. Take heart in knowing Hollywood North is your environmental bitch.

Johnnycanuck, I was not aware of Governator screwing mail Premier, I was under impression that he is very hetero. But in California everything believable.
As far as 44 mpg standard, I really don’t think it is all that difficult to achieve. It is early 2008 and GM has technology today to get 20 mpg out of very large Soccer Mom/Dad mobile. BMW & Benz are privy to the same technology and their vehicles can do 30-40 mpg even without two mode hybrid on diesel power only. Those of us who can’t afford Nazi toys or Japs hybrids can buy GM smaller cars. Furthermore, Lutz promised Volt that will go 80 miles on electricity alone and Malibu has mild hybrid to achieve over 30 mpg. There 12 more years to 2020. Technology grows in geometric progression when there is a stimulus for it. And actually there is no need for new technology, what we have today will do.

It’s amazing that we abuse the earth for so long and then we want to fix it over night. But lets fix the problem. People don’t change until they are hurting in the pocket. Charge very rediculious high taxes on gas guzzlers, sales will drop and auto manufacturers will be forced to produced more fuel efficient cars.

44mpg huh? I can only imagine what California would push for by 2040. Skateboards/scooters/rollerblades/bicycles?

I think 30mpg city is reasonable. Think of how many cars out there get 11mpg in the city. Actually, they should teach people how to coast properly; I see many retards out there who floor it up to 100 ft b4 a red light and then they slam on the brakes. I’m sure a jackass like that gets about 7 miles to the gallon.

Gizmo dont hate on the rest of us because all you can afford is a used Geo, but ill be thinking of you when i slam the throttle on my LS2 powered Trailblazer (13mpg) tonight, God thank you for that motor.

Yes, God, thank you for the LS2. Also, thanks for the Pontiac SD455 V8 used back in the early 70’s so I have something to look forward to not smogging.

I’ll be REALLY pissed if California changes the 30-year smog exemption rule to something that would require every car that is exempt to get smog inspections again.

Those california wildfires last year emitted more carbon than all of the cars in North America for over a year. They should outlaw and tax fire.

I like Lex Luther’s solution from the first Superman movie to solve this problem… One nuclear warhead in the San Andreas fault and problem solved!

To the Cali government – you are being run by complete, out in space loonies.
To all you Cali people – you bend over every day and get raped in your rear because “the weather’s nice and I can hike”.
This is all a comedy of the absurd. The most dizzy, naïve and hysterical among us are actually doing everything they can to make the rest of us – one of them.
I’m gonna go out today and drive the vehicle of my choice and pump my fist in the air when I see the plates of another California refuge.

I guess when people keep telling you that your the 5th largest economy on planet it must go to your head. California used to be a leader in so many ways, great schools, world class college system, economic opportunity in abbundance, great roads and infrastructure.
Today the schools and hospitals are overwelmed (illegals and welfare bums) and under funded. The colleges are only affordable to rich kids and foreign kids (whos’ gov’t pays bills). The roads are either useless or owned by a foreign interests (tolls). Cali has roaming blackouts, water shortages, highest gas prices on conti US. Economic opportunity is choked by taxation on every level, to the point that businesses have been fleeing Cali for last 15 years.
California needs to fix its own problems before it starts telling everyone else how to live. California has some of the worst congestion and most prolific urban sprawl anywhere on planet, talk about a waste of GAS!

refugee.

even if they do pass this law, what’s to stop me from finding AND buying a 1998 chevy caprice with 2938892839 miles on it with white smoke coming out of my mufflers that i refuse to fix? they can fine me all they want- doesn’t mean i’ll fix it, i can always find some mechanic to sell me a state inspection sticker under the table

California is going to crack off by an earthquake someday. California is the new day soddom and gomorra.
God punishes California’s evilness with Earthquakes, Wildfires, Typhoons, tsunamis soon to be. It’s not up to California to make the Decisions. California has the most home foreclosures of any state! Good job there GROPERNATOR!

I know Cali and other states have had different emissions standards for a while, but what Cali’s proposing now goes way beyond catalytic converting this or that.

Cali, I’m sure, is an important market for any car maker, they’d much rather sell vehicles there than not. The costs of engineering a 62% more fuel-efficient fleet for a small market would almost certainly be spread across all sales. The cost of everyone’s car to meet a 35 mpg standard will go up–it’ll go up even more if a certain percentage of those cars need to hit a 44 mpg average, even if the car you buy doesn’t.

I’m sure it’ll be argued that what Cali is proposing would have a substantial impact on interstate commerce, so the feds will likely have the power to stop it. We can only hope.

Murderedout doesn’t know what state he’s in – he lives in the basement, chained up like a gimp for the trannies to use as a human cumrag. He could be in Disneyland for all he knows…

California don’t have money anymore. Maybe back in the early 1900s not now, Oh and Michigan leads the nation in tech innovation, retart!

Piss on Californoa

I don’t know if you’ve heard yet Murder but Detroit is officially the worst most miserable city in the entire United States according to the official US Misery Index, I read about it in the paper. How’s the weather over there? Miserable I’m guessing, sucker.

Oh did I even mention LA california has the Worst traffic, highest pollution, most nasty smog. Overpopulated, and the highest suicide rate in the country.

LA makes Detroit look like paradise.

People will start to LEAVE Californialand.

Then allow Mexico to annex it…they have the votes to do it anyway.

Fed probably will back out from this confrontation. And nothing horrible will happen. Manufacturers (domestics) will moan and bitch and will comply and pretend that they never moaned and bitch. Look at it as improving less then 2 mpg per year. Less then 10% achievement per each year. A lot of industries strive for 10% improvement without prod from the government, just based on market competition.

Retart, wtf is retart? Murderself is retarted.

^hahaha!

Why not 344 MPG by then???? Come on guys, think big, and it will just happen.

“This is significantly higher than the already high 35 mpg average automakers were faced with under the federal CAFE law passed recently, and it gets worse. Since at least another 15 states are to adopt California’s new rules, altogether accounting for about half of the new vehicle market in the US, the state law would effectively force an automaker to build all its cars to the standard, according to Automotive News.”

The phrase, “it gets worse” is a horrible statement and absolutely wrong. This is a very good thing to achieve. It is about time that we are responsible for the environment that we are killing.

Don’t people get that if we kiss off the fish and plants that we will have nothing to eat? Don’t you get that there have been lots of extinctions of plants and animals due to human destruction and poisons that were are putting in the air, land, and water?

We CAN have very fast cars using electricity or other sources of energy that do not poison the world. Only people with their head in the sand won’t look around and realize this.

This is NOT an attempt to destroy everyone’s fun. This is aimed at trying to save our environment and at the same time save our lives so that we can continue to have fun but in a more responsible, non poisoning, way.

Sabon, with that post, you’ve definitely put yourself in the cross-hairs with the LLN blogger bunch. Pretty soon, the imbecile teens among us will ignore what you have to say and instead profanely allude to your homosexual relationship with Al Gore.

What the CAFE requirements do is throw a new variable into a free market mix, where ideally, the car consumers of America should decide how fuel efficient the cars they buy will be. But, many car consumers either put eco concerns on the back burner, or they don’t believe that passenger cars don’t contribute to the problem. Personally, I think every little bit helps, even in regulating passenger car mpg, but I don’t subscribe to the gloom-and-doom you predict. But you’re entitled to your opinion….

I suppose I don’t have a problem with the gov’t stepping in and changing the dynamics of the market some, but Cali’s proposal is simply a matter of degree. Too high a requirement, and the costs to all may be too great (much higher prices for cars, some desirable cars removed from the market, and maybe even smaller niche companies abandoning the U.S. market).

I don’t mind having my choices restricted some because of enviro concerns (and really, security concerns, as the true benefit of higher CAFE, say the lawmakers, is more freedom from foreign oil), but I still like my choices. Technology will eventually keep pace with political pressures to save the environment and/or to keep Arab oil where it is. I just think 35 mpg is a more reasonable start than 44 mpg.

So will the Goverment in California that is so worried about the enviroment also force people to downsize there stupidly big homes in the well to do areas of Southern California. You know the Hollywood stars whom live in 10 bedroom 15k square foot homes and use 1000 square feet of it as well as having a Prius to go to Starbucks in?
How about traffic gridlocks that occur in every major city in Cali? Maybe this should be the worry and priority. Maybe they should have new standards for developers? 50 houses on the side of a hill does not seem to be helping the enviroment any, especially when it rains. Some of the worst weather in the country comes out of that state.
California is no longer the state that everyone wants to be like.
Anyone on this website that believes CAFE is good and worse yet, that 44 MPG’s is good is on the wrong site. Go to Mothernature.com eco-freaks.

What the HELL are they smoking? Srsly, man, WTF?

Well then let’s get Hydrogen production started at a mass-production level *right now*. They want insane fuel economy, we’ll give it to them. Zero-emission cars and trucks, yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. We’ll beat them at their own game. No f*cking law will interfere people from buying what they want.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for improved fuel economy but this latest proposal is ridiculous. The timetable and fuel economy numbers are completely unrealistic. Any moron can see this!