Noooo!! That will make sporting-goods equipment more expensive. There are better alternatives to CF for this type of application.

So many people were complaining about the government forcing CAFE standards on automakers, and the rest of us said don’t worry, they’ll be forced to innovate and they’ll find a way to meet them. If they start mass-producing CF the price will come down, and then all of us who can’t afford a Ferrari will reap the benefits. Also 6ix, I don’t see how finding a way to mass-produce a material would cause sports equipment to become more expensive. It’s not like GM will suddenly hoard all the CF, they’ll simply be making a ton more of it. Again, CF will become cheaper to manufacture and prices for anything using it should drop.

Carbon Fiber going maintstream eh? That’s pretty sweet. It’s light weight, durable and not horribly expensive.

Hey anyone remember the Fiberglass body Chevrolet Lumina APV and Pontiac Transport Minivans from the early to mid 90’s??? My parents had a 94 Lumina APV. It had the 3800 series V6, got decent gas mileage, and because of the fiberglass body it practically looked like how it did the day my parents got it when we finally donated it a year ago. It lasted us 12 years and had 120,000+ on the odometer, and the engine and trans were also running strong.

Only bad thing about Fiberglass bodies and I’m sure with Carbon Fiber is that when you get into an accident Fiberglass or Carbon fiber won’t hold up like aluminum and steel will. Only downside I can really think with this stuff…

Ferrari or Lambo HA! If you want legit CF work then check out the Mclaren F1 or the CCX

i caught a really good show on molded plastics this weekend on pbs, it was about theese new processes where the plastic rang like a bell it was so strong. very interesting no auto company cares for now, but seriously it was cool, got me wondering. the bad part was it was on at the same time as the autoshow coverage so i had to switch back and fourth during commercials. so i missed a lot of the details too.

Also SS4LIFE; carbon fiber is not only lighter than the regular materials but it holds up better under pressure, and I’m no expert but I would guess that its rigidity in a car frame is at LEAST 20% more than aluminum or steel. Unlike metal which twist and bends and crushes, carbon fiber is just tough as nails and when it gets hit hard enough it just snaps off. I don’t think the safety issue is a concern as much as cost and durability over time.

that’s interesting F3INT))AP3X. Then I’m all for carbon fiber.

davebo,

Currently the Aerospace industry has caused a spike in world cf prices. This has already resulted in a spike in cf sporting goods. Already expensive bicycles are now hitting $5k plus for a frame and fork only. If the auto industry jumps in and mass produces cf sporting good prices are really going to spike. I would suspect that they would settle down after new manufacturers jump into the game. In the short term this would hurt. In the long run more people working and experimenting with cf would likely lead to better products for anything constructed of cf.

Hello…. Bugatti Veyron Pur Sang??? LP640 Sucks….

I think the Koenigsegg CCX is a great example of what we could see in the future, here’s a direct quote from their website. “Both the body and chassis of a Koenigsegg are made of extremely lightweight carbon fibre composite, reinforced with Kevlar and aluminium honeycomb.” Another thing I want to add is that if you know the video sites online see if any of you can check out the Top Gear episode on the CCX, they accidently crash it into a tire wall and they show you afterwards what a tire wall can do to a carbon fiber body, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!

GM is “looking into” durability ?????

And GM is selling the car for $100grand ???

Is GM or the buyer an idiot.

The saftey benefits of cf are definitely enticing. Watch the tape of BMW-driver Kubica’s F1 crash last season and you’ll be on board (left the track at 190 mph, hit a concrete wall head on at 145 mph, the crash decimated everything on his car except the carbon fiber tub that, along with Kubica’s head restraint system, kept his injuries down to a mild concussion and a sprained ankle).

But cf in passenger car service is a long ways away. If part of the cf breaks or is stressed, then–correct me if I’m wrong–but there’s no welding it to replace it or make it stronger. And what autobody shop can work with cf to any degree? The only repair is no repair, and that might be asking a bit much for high-volume grade cf.

Im planting carbon fiber trees in my back yard this weekend!
Carbon Fiber use has been increasing expotentially last 5 years. Unless their is shortage of raw materials (there isnt) the mass production and more importantly improved proceses will bring price down. The carbon fiber is fairly cheap, but the resin is very pricey and the fiber is still usually a time consuming hand laid process similar to fiber glass

LP640 how can you really say that “everyone saw this centuries ago.” Do you speak for the whole forum with your mighty keyboard o’ justice? Just shut up if you don’t have anything real to say. What do you think people who read this, does LP speak for you??? Did EVERYBODY see this centuries ago and I’m just now talking about it?

LP$640/month welfare check is a dick. I voted against the food stamps for computers program because I knew this is what would happen.

Scarfac03 I both agree and disagree. I agree in that replacement body parts might be expensive and drive up car insurance premiums. I disagree though because if GM is selling 150k Malibu/Astra/G6 you would think that there should be enough body parts to supply the repair market at a reasonable price.

Structural Carbon Fiber, especially the specially manufactured race car and aerospace Carbon Fiber used, is deucedly expensive, but is quite safe. ONe should really look at the structure of some of these super cars to see that they are comparatively overbuilt compared to a mostly steel or aluminum car.

There is a great deal of research being done into less expensive formulations and manufactures of Carbon Fiber. The most promising use natural fibers and Microwave “baking” to product a Carbon composite roughly 85% as strong but costing as little as one-tenth the price per pound… or about $4.00/lb. About the same as Aluminum.

But I think Carbon Fiber is not the only material to be used. Honeycombed aluminum, aluminum in general, basically the same recipe used in the C5 and C6 CORVETTES, will reduce weigh.

But all this means quite little if GM, FORD, and CHRYSLER insist on selling full-sized trucks and SUVs that weigh between two and nearly four tons. If they are so intent on building these behemoths then that is where the weigh reductions need to start first. Simply but maing the Cab and bed of a Full Sized Truck out of aluminum and composites could yield 1000lbs in weigh saving with any unusual or expensive technology…

Rivets and structural glue. It works in WW2, in racing the 1960s, and some makers today do it.

The answers are there… but Carbon Fiber is not the only one. If DETROIT wants us to believe that you have to wait until the technology as absolutely perfect then nothing will ever be done. Swap some body panels. Use more aluminum. Build more intelligently conceived structures instead of using heavier gauges or steel in lieu of better structuring.

These are the things that MOST be done to save weigh… not waiting…

Great to hear that GM is using one of its most expensive cars as a test-bed for Carbon Fiber durability.. but doesn’t that also mean GM is using some of its most upwardly-mobile customers as guinea pigs? Shouldn’t they have done some durability testing before they approved the materials for production?

i thought the new ZR1 had more carbon fiber in it.

Why don’t they also do some RnD in their engine departments?

Fast driving crowd always been a guinea pig for US auto companies. Those cars are usually weekend cars and not subject to everyday abuse. Just ask Lambo and Ferrari owners what their maintenance looks like just to be on the road (scheduled and unscheduled)

The new ZR1 has more carbon fiber on it, not in it.

F3INT))AP3X- “Unlike metal which twist and bends and crushes, carbon fiber is just tough as nails”

Err… Find a better comparison.

“and when it gets hit hard enough it just snaps off. I don’t think the safety issue is a concern as much as cost and durability over time.”

I think everyones totally missing the point. Carbon fiber, despite being stronger as you’ve all pointed out, is much more brittle, obviously meaning it doesn’t absorb the impact of a crash. The Smart Car is a great example, instead of having crumple zones it just gets flung like a kid throwing a matchbox car. I’ll be the first to say I’d be horrified to get into an accident with one of those things, I’ve seen the evidence. Now, an accident with another Smart, maybe…

And it’s already been shown that Carbon Fiber has great durability, and can be produced with just a small increase over the expense of aluminum.

Jayjc08,

You didn’t read the entire quote, which reads: “Unlike metal which twist and bends and crushes, carbon fiber is just tough as nails [but] when it gets hit hard enough it just snaps off.”

There are formulations of Carbon Fiber that have more give, like a composite, but are still prone to breaking under high enough stress (the sudden force of a car to car crash into a catastrophic collapse). On this I think we are both agreed.

However, I would seriously doubt that any mass market cars will ever be built before 2020 that will be largely Carbon Fiber. Though I could see something like the safety cage and body panels made of the material to save weight and because of it’s strength would be fine if given adequate crumple zones or just better structuring over all.

However while the costs of Carbon Fiber Composites have come way down to around $8.00/lb the costs of working with the materials are still high enough that most mainstream makers will not even look at it even over Aluminum. New formulation using natural fibers and less expensive manufacturing processes should bring cost down to Aluminum prices (soeme project as low as $4.50/lb) within a few years.

Yes, carbon fiber is the future. Now everyone, and I do mean *everyone* needs to get involved to lower pricing of the stuff, from Governments granting tax breaks etc. all the way down to the suppliers. Massive factories have to be built to supply the airline industry alone, so if the automotive industry wants to go on-board to use carbon fiber in mass-production we’ll be facing some serious supply problems.