OK, that sounds like a good plan…. I personally thought this was an obvious statement (about them having to step up) – So many of their products have been designed to carry a Chevy badge on them in the first place. By not having Pontaic/Saturn, I think it presents a more clean image for the company that can easily decide which badge to put on certain cars…

I think thats a good plan, drop the current Impala and rebadge the G8 as the new one, with the GXP being the SS, and bring the MIddle Eastern Caprice with it aswell.

that’s more reason to get rid of GMC!!! Saturn and Pontiac failed because GM slacked off! I have never seen a saturn/pontiac dealer that looked good, they were all crap compared to chevy dealers…even though some of those weren’t so bad either. What’s the real point of GMC anyways?? Every vehicle found at GMC can be found at the chevy dealer!!!

That’s a lot of weight to pull, but it makes more sense than trying to split it up between two or three other brands with only two or three products. Biggest difference is they won’t have to try to not intercompete with those few products that Saturn and Pontiac sold.

They still have a long way to go to do this, however.

Until our overlords in DC pass legislation forcing me to buy a GM in a feeble attempt to legitimize the theft of a company to pay off the UAW for their political support, I will not help Chevy in its effort to gain sales. I was supportive of GM until early this year – now I actively want its failure and that of Chrysler.

They should keep Saturn and make it a “Fleet Only” line.

70% of GM sales? That’ll be, what, 5000 units?

@Smegley Wanxalot

the failure of +80 billion investment would make alot of sense, wouldnt it?

TomF – considering GM is outselling everyone this year, just based on last months sales of 156,673, Chevy will sell 109,671 units, not 5000.

Smegley – great attitude to have. Yes it was not our choice to have our tax money loaned to GM and Chrysler, but they need to succeed in order for us to get our money back. Your attitude is the same as investing your own money into the stock of a company and then immediately wanting it to fail so you do not get your investment back. Think about that.

What would make sense is for Chevrolet to encompass the market segments of both Pontiac and Saturn. The problem is I don’t think Fritz or Dewar are the right people for the job. Instead, it’s time for Whitacre and the Board to become even more involved in operations. Whitacre put the ‘Old GM’ team that still run the company on notice that things are going to change, La Neve being shown the door, long overdue I might add, being a good start. However, more needs to be done. The excuses for keeping the “Old GM” management around diminish by the day… Dewar is a light weight as is Docherty (La Neve’s replacement from BPG).

Maybe some of you, those who criticized the appointment of Whitacre, can now see the difference between the functions of the Chairman of the Board of Directors, Ed Whitacre and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Fritz Henderson. What you are seeing now is an activist Board of Directors that has management on a leash – the way it should be! If the previous board had done its job GM would probably not be in this mess. A Government installed Board of Directors is GM’s best hope at saving itself from, well, itself – now who would’ve thought:-))

DB9;-)

PS. Mr. Nagin, not to worry, you may get you wish…

I have confidence in Chevy, they’ve got a pretty nice lineup right now, with the Camaro, Malibu, Traverse, Equinox, ZR-1, plus the Tahoe Hybrid, and the upcoming Volt, I think they have a great chance in the N. American market

If you people think you’re going to get $80B back you’re crazy. Their market value would have to be double that of Toyota to get that. The money is already lost and it isn’t coming back.

That point aside, I didn’t object to the first loan, but I said at the time “give them one loan and let them fail or succeed on it.” What was it – $13B or so? But my objection now to all things GM comes from the fact in the bankruptcy process that the secured business loans were robbed by the government and given to unsecured partners (mostly the UAW) in a political payoff in a complete disregard for business law, and then the secured partners were threatened if they objected. That form of behavior should never be allowed to succeed. NEVER. And I don’t care if the political reward was given to a group I like or not – it is the principle of theft and political payoff that must always fail and always be actively opposed. If you don’t oppose corruption in a situation like this you literally have no legitimate reason to complain about it ever.

Smegley is an unAmerican F*ck. Go away jacka$$ and leave the conversation to adults.

Be American. Buy American. Buy GM. It is your patriotic obligation

Which brings me to another point: Does anyone really want to keep NMOFGM employed?

Why should we expect the money back? Seriously, why? We did it as a gesture of thanks to the many great men and women of GM to help them make it through the tough economic slump of 2009. As a fellow American, I find it selfish and ignorant to go around demanding that money back when it will be used to fund the onslaught of new and exciting products in GM’s future.

GM is Americas automotive institution and the world standard in Automotive engineering excellence. Our reward will be more than monetary, it will be the future of this great company and it’s future successes.

Be American. Buy American. Buy GM

nice work, smegley, i totally disagree with everything you said, but you wrote a series of connected statements and that’s unusual for this site…i take the economic domino disaster approach to the gm bailout…gm goes down, parts suppliers go down, all automakers go down (perhaps pushing ford into needing loan support to survive), millions more jobs lost, the manufacturing capacity in the country goes down, further dependence on foreign manufacturing, deepening the trade deficit, yadda yadda…bad things…stopping that was worth the price…the economic consequences of a full gm meltdown were worth preventing…

as far as the corruption bit, i don’t have enough info to comment either way…giving the uaw ownership (i’m assuming this is the bit you’re upset over) puts them at risk for failure as well, and you have to admit with your conservative slant it’s not a surprise (nor a coincidence) that you’re falling on the anti-union side of things…that said, you present a braveheart-like stance on corruption, yet you should not be so naive as to assume it doesn’t happen at the highest levels of every administration…if you really are so anti-corruption, you should be completely anti-government whoever is in power, as several conservative administrations could be equally accused of such shady practices…

that said, it’s a bit childish to openly hope for the failure of an organization that will cause widespread economic hardship if it fails…there is more at stake than your ideology here…

What I hate about that chevy bowtie symbol is its association with racist rednecks of the south. Its become almost a religious symbol among the uneducated nascar lovin’ jerry springer watching white trash crowd. Do I want to buy a car with such a symbol? Hell no! Only a fool with barely a high school diploma would want to buy a poorly built car with a bowtie on their grill.

Chrysler paid off such loans before even if the were smaller, given time they could even if it dose take a long time and the government will get interest.fiat did not just get are money from the deal. this is not as bad as some of the other ways the government spend are tax money we wont ever see.

To be quite honest, Smegley does have a point. Our government should have had more oversight on GM and Chrysler when they began to run into problems 20 years ago. We wouldn’t have to bitch about this bailout if our politicians took responsibility, used their common sense, and were not being bought out by those union parasites and the corporate heads. But then again, responsibility is a word that is completely lost in the minds of the rich f*ckers that created this mess, and I’m probably giving the government too much credit even for THAT.

Unfortunately, GM is so intertwined with the automotive industry, that allowing it to fail would’ve literally made the recession even worse than it is now. Even by letting Toyota fail, it would have an extremely bad influence on the entire market. So I would watch it, when saying that you would want any of these companies to fail.

LWA, while I appreciate the domino theory argument, I would argue that the dominos would not have toppled according to the theory. The bankruptcy would have happened anyway, and the question then becomes who gets control in the restructure. The way I see it normal business law was circumvented and coercion use to give control to political counterparts. Holders of secured loans get lower interest rates precisely because in the case of default the holder get a preferred position in the outcome of the bankruptcy. Here they got the shaft instead whereas unsecured holders scored, and it was all political. If the UAW had secured debt I would not argue, but they got higher interest while holding debt and then got preference in the outcome.

As for the domino theory, companies go bankrupt routinely and operations and suppliers continue during the restructure. Airlines do it all the time, and I have flown on airlines that are technically in default but the suppliers still bring them gas, and they get paid. It never was the case that it would be the way it happened or the economy becomes unraveled – it was about political misuse of a crisis situation. That happened no matter who is in power, but it is my nature to actively oppose it, and with a car purchase that is pretty easy mostly. The suppliers and the factories would have continued (at least most of them) in any case.

Toyota and the rest of Japan failing will only make our Detroit collegues that much more successful. We as Americans need to make sure our Industry remains the greatest, most successful Industry in the world. Without General Motors, this Country would die.

Be American. buy American. buy GM.

Smegley is right. Our money is gone. Let’s cut our losses. Buy a Ford.

Obviously the education of some people on this site is in question. Just becasue someone lives in a certain area or watches a certain sport doesn’t mean they are uneducated. The use of profanity and the generalization of people and products is the true sign of no education. Toyota is having quality problems and recalls like they have never seen before. And last time I checked they are in NASCAR too. It is great to have educated, logical discussions. But to have uneducated, profanity filled comments is just childish.

American_Cars_Crap
What I hate about that chevy bowtie symbol is its association with racist rednecks of the south. Its become almost a religious symbol among the uneducated nascar lovin’ jerry springer watching white trash crowd. Do I want to buy a car with such a symbol? Hell no! Only a fool with barely a high school diploma would want to buy a poorly built car with a bowtie on their grill.

——————————————–

LMAO:-))) Not bad, but to be effective it needs work, it’s, well, derivative with an attempt at originality/style;-) Cool Dawg used to be a pro at this… I’ll put in a word for you… Not making promises, but…;-)

DB9;-)

PS. I take it y’all hit a dry town…;-)) Curious, are you really sure you need the affirmation of buying the symbol, maybe it’s already evident for all to see… later alligator;-))

Lefty, you just made your own argument to contradict your position. yes corruption is a part of any governance, Given that, we probably don’t want our government to build our cars. I reckon understanding the consequences of government starting manufacturing, fathers of our nation asked DuPont to produce black powder for the Army and Navy and purchased it from DuPont. What make us think that Treasury evolved to a point of manufacturing cars? I concur that it was a mistake of Bush administration of giving unsecured loan to GM. What is more appalling is bankruptcy theater that gave UAW & CAW majority ownership of whatever left instead of shareholders, who lost everything.
You can not be anti government: that would lead to anarchy. However constitution provides government with limited role in economic life of the country and that role should not be arbitrarily expanded. As a result of the bankruptcy proceedings shareholders of GM were robbed of their rightful property and it was gifted to the UAW and CAW which were partially responsible (along with inept management) for the disaster. In addition taxpayers of US were robbed of 50 billions (not 80) and we will never see a red cent. I have a hunch that management and unions will come for more loans, since they are not in the red and who in the right mind invest into New GM on open market (stock market) after those bankruptcy proceedings?

@DB9

LOL WUT? o_O

The Chevy logo does not look like a bowtie to me. There just isn’t any bow in it.

The GM bailout wasn’t to help the GM corporation! Those who wish for GM failure, do you remember the timing- banks were failing, housing a disaster with bad mortgages. For those very people who would happily take government money to save their savings accounts, or keep their house, what is the difference when the government is helping the GM workers keep a job! For those who cry foul, I would love to see if you turn down assistance when your impacted in some way. How many people are going to turn down their social security when they are elligible. They will draw more than they put in, as people are living much longer but I’m sure they will feel justified in thier own bailout!!!! Will you turn down the money on principle and should you be cut loose when your payouts match what your contribution was? I say get over the bailout-the economy isn’t like the 60’s anymore. We didn’t have foreign competition taking huge market share numbers like today and if a company like Studebaker failed, another American company took their market share it was not such a big issue. Revenue and jobs stayed here. I hope GM makes it and even if they don’t pay every penny back I think it’s time we support our industry. Why didn’t the same voices who complain now, complain about huge tax breaks for the competition to open factories-add up all of that lost revenue and see what that bailout comes to!

Exactly, there was no garantee that GM would have to repay the donation. Why should they? We owe it to them to keep their business going in good times and bad. If we want the best talent like Lutz, Fritz and Young, we need to pay them accordingly. You jacka$$es who are demenading the money back are clearly the minority because other websites out there have members who have already gotten over it and moved on. Your complaining isn’t worth a damn anymore.

GM earned the money, think of it as a bonus for all their hard efforts.

Here’s to continued success, with or without your naysayers!

GM. AN American Revolution

@toledojake

Yes, the automotive bailouts were created to prevent GM and Chrysler from going bankrupt due to the amount of losses they’ve occurred throughout the last few decades as a result of poor business management. If I remember correctly, GM and Chrysler went to Congress and pleaded with them to give them billions of dollars in assistance, as well as a ton of excuses over why they should remain relevant in this day and age. They get the bailout money anyway, and they still ended up going bankrupt, and being temporarily owned by the government until they could negotiate a settlement.

Too bad they will have to pay back all the government loans they’ve asked for. Even Congress can go bankrupt one day, and it will be snowing in hell if that ever happens.

It doesn’t matter, let’s just reward greed and stupidity anyway, because responsibility is the most UN-American thing a citizen could ever have!

is there an emoticon for “beating a dead horse”? because i would use one here.

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The Big 3 got us through WWII and helped make U.S. the industrial and economic powerhouse it is today. Giving GM a loan was the least we could do for them, considering how many millions of working poor people they put into the middle class over the years. Should they pay the U.S. taxpayers back? Absolutely. When? Whenever Toyota/Honda is marginalized, GM reaches profitability again and GM’s U.S. market share is back up to 50%….the way it once was and they way it should be right now.

@ American_Cars_Crap

Thanks for making a complete ignorant ass out of yourself and proving my point that you are an anti-American fool.

Smegley, you got the horse. Now you just have to kill it and beat it.

BuyUSA, i’d like you define “helped” on your following statement: “The Big 3 got us through WWII and helped make U.S. the industrial and economic powerhouse it is today.” I thought they were companies that made money out of it – and anything else they’ve ever made.

They just need to burn GM to the ground. It stinks America up. Be American, buy any import, bu don’t buy GM.

$80 billion- what a waste. And GM still turns out crappy cars. The Pontiac Aztek? The Cobalt? The ugly Malibu? Saturn- hee hee. It’s like GM was run by a whole bunch of special needs people. I could have done better with my eyes closed. Please GM just stop before you really embarrass America. Be American. Buy anything besides a GM- including a Yugo.

@BuyUSA

Are you really that gullible? So what if the government gave loans to the Big 3 back in WWII? Germany and Japan did the same thing to their own major companies. Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, etc.; they all had a part for developing weapons and vehicles for their respective nations. And as far as I’m concerned, they were all doing it for the money also.

So how were the Big 3 anymore different than the others back then? When nations are at war, major industries will see huge profits from it. Quite frankly, that’s possibly the only thing they would’ve cared about back then.

GTAMike is exactly right! You have to be a complete idiot to want GM to fail just because they BORROWED taxpayer money. I am sick of people calling for the failure of the very companies that helped build our military strength in WW2 as well as create the middle class of the 50’s and beyond.

Think about it…GM was #1 for DECADES! Toyota’s goal has always been to surpass GM in volume. The ironic thing is, as they did just that touting their superior quality, their warts are finally being brought to light by the onece blinded media. Which company has had the most recalls last year> TOYOTA…Which comany has had the LARGEST RECALL in history? TOYOTA… Toyota has been very good at keepong their sub par quality issues out of the medias spotlight. Therefore, their “superior quality” is just a veiled perception. GM is still out selling Toyota in North America. Toyota has lost more money that GM both this year & last year. They are bleeding cash! If they were sooooo great & soooo well run, why are they losing more money that GM?
Import car companies have come here to build factories to ASSEMBLE their products while getting away with huge tax incentives & lower than previous industry wages. During that time, Detroit was expected to pay double the wages w/o the incentives of their foreign competitors. I am glad the union finally came to their senses about fairness in wages & benefits. That was long over due. But look what has happended. Import companies came here & got a big hug for our politicians thru tax abatements, etc. Now, our once middle and upper middle class industry has been forced to lower the wages of that very class that buys products and services all over America with their wages. Lower wages means less money spent.
Trade laws have also helped to injure our domestic auto industry. Kia imported 750,000 cars to the U.S. last year. GM was only allowed to export 6,000 to Korea. Does that sound fair?
I am not saying the problems of the big 3 are not of their own doing. Like many big companies, they have had their issues & miscues. However, you have to look at the big picture & protect & dance with those who brought you to the dance. It all starts with the consumer. If we all don’t support the big 3 & at least admit that they have began an area of world class quality, etc.(whch they have done) , give their products the chance they deserve, well…we will get what is coming to us.

If that happenes, then the blind, cynical American consumer did exactly what Hitler & Japan & BinLaden couldn’t do. Afterall, If we ever get into another war with them, I am sure they will let us ASSEMBLE THEIR bombs & tanks in their factories in Alabama.