This makes sense how? Pontiac should get any RWD platform. Since when does Pontiac not need a volume car? Looks like the accountants are winning back GM decision making. A very bad thing.

There should be a Pontiac.
And the Chevy and Cadillac should be night and day.

I smell the death of the Cobalt! Bring on the RWD, do try to put AWD as an option though. Otherwise, it won’t sell in Snow country.

does anyone else notice that the decision makers listen to the loud-mouthed minority opinion rather than the laid-back majority opinion?

why not just trash the cobalt platform, replace it with a RWD platform, and keep the name? chevy AND pontiac benefit. and plus, i dont like fwd on the cobalts anyways

I thought Chevy already had to many vechiles? They should trade the Ute for this sedan with pontiac, that way there can be a proper El Camino, and more RWD cars for Pontiac.

this could be a serious blow to pontiac. just when it looked like gm was going to try to seperate pontiac from chevy and the others, chevy is back. L88 is right, i thought “klutz” said chevy has too many models?? it seems like they just have too much power. have said it before and will say it again….chevy should be a seperate enitity (gm/chevy)with the remaining divisions making up gm, with no chevrolet policies enforced on the other divisions….garbage like this wouldnt keep happening over and over…

I never liked the idea of a Chevy Lambda. I always thought the Enclave, Acadia, Outlook line-up provided plenty of differentiation. The lambda cross-overs are quality vehicles, if you can water down a Chevy to make it different enough from a Saturn, you probably wouldn’t want to. And if you can’t water it down enough, you eat into Saturn sales.

I’m a fan of car companies saving costs, but there has to be a cohesion to the car line-ups. A RWD Chevy is just a way to milk a platform, and it does nothing but confuse Chevy’s image.

The fact that the Kappa platform may go bye-bye might be a sucker punch GM doesn’t need. I know they rushed (at least “rushed” for the automotive world) the Solstice and Sky to market, now maybe it would’ve made sense to sacrifice a model year and build the Alpha.

You have to realize that GM wants to move Pontiac up-market. Considerably. If Pontiac moves up then this small sedan will have to fit that image — think BMW 1-series fighter.

And that just creates too much overlap with whatever they’re planning on doing with their Cadillac model. It also means small volumes. A natural byproduct of a higher price means that a Pontiac version wouldn’t sell nearly as well as a cheaper Chevrolet version, and they need the volume to offset the cost.

Sure, they could do all 3, but then you get people complaining about the same thing that they have for the past 10 years — all GM does is put the same car in a different dress over and over. And you’d end up with just a lot of cannibalization.

seems like Pontiac should get one too. shouldnt be hard to pull off with GMs newfound ability to differentiate brands. either way im not going to complain about Chevy getting small rwd.

hbcbob3, it happens in politics all the time. sickening isn’t it.

I think the move makes sense from a standpoint of giving the #1 volume brand the platform to make a business case for it. I didn’t read that Pontiac won’t get it? (Maybe I missed that). Back in the day Chevy had the Nova (which I think would be a great name to bring back) and Pontiac had the Ventura. Pontiac just doesn’t have the marketing clout to have exclusive platforms. I highly doubt that the Cobalt will go away, and I think that it will get built on the replacement-Astra platform. Chevy needs something to appeal to the West Coast crowd. Imagine if they had a Civic-sized car that was RWD with decent styling. That would be a huge hit in sun-belt states where they need to raise more awareness to the brand, as well as attract a young demographic. I’ll wager they’ll put the 260hp Ecotec in it too. How well do you think that will sell? Basically a 1series competitor for 10k less, nevermind a Civic Si killer! This assumes they style it well, and build it well, of course.

I think moving off the Kappa is good too, and maybe the Pontiac version will just be the Solstice. The Kappa was a baby step in the right direction, but the ultimate execution was poor to say the least. No storage room, and a top that requires a mensa card to operate. They need to re-do these cars, and FAST. Sales are already slumping for the Kappas. Unfortunately for GM, this car HAS to be better than the Miata/S2000/Z4/Boxster for it to maintain decent sales in that segment. With the Kappa, all they did was get the people already accepting of GM products. You don’t see many here in the West, I’ll tell you. I don’t think they had much conquest from the established models.

I’d like to see Chevy’s version be very retro, having the HHR be replaced by a Nomad-looking vehicle, and building a sedan that looks similar to the early Chevy II/ Nova. I’d be pretty cool to have a retro/modern mix in several segments. Think Impala/Malibu, Cobalt/Nova, Traverse/Nomad, Camaro/Malibu Coupe, Colorado/LUV…yes even a possible super-light-duty pickup to replace the ailing Colorado. Something similar to the LUV / VW P/U, but with great styling, and a cheaper/stronger live axle. That’s pretty easy to do. Man, I want a pickup to replace the old LUV that gets the 25+ mpg I get, but there is nothing out there that really fits the bill. They are all too big & heavy & expensive & inefficient now, and have capabilities I really don’t need for runs to Home Depot and camping trips.

Blah blah blah…I just think it’s a good idea if it means the small RWD platform gets the “go ahead”…

more crap for the public to lull over, NICE

Every time I think GM finally has their business and their brands sorted out, they make a stupid decision like this. Pontiac doesn’t need a sport “trucklet” and Chevrolet doesn’t need a small rear wheel drive product. Here is another case of accountant driven brand allocation. If GM doesn’t drop this practice, they will never be able to clearly define their brands. The misguided brand allocation and horrible brand engineered cloning practice are a couple of reasons their brands became irrelevant in the first place.

I thought the same thing as other forum members when I read this topic: Lutz has stated that Chevrolet has too many products in its lineup. Why in the world would you force a compact rear wheel drive product into Chevy’s lineup then? It is very contradictory and foolish.

GM needs to take a step back and really reevaluate their brands’ purposes and lineups. Then they need to form a strategy to make the lineups happen. They definitely need to quit stuffing products into lineups just to satisfy accountants.

A RWD compact Chevy sedan is the WRONG approach.

Pontiac is a MUCH better candidate for this platform, as are Buick and Cadillac.

Didn’t Lutz just say that Chevrolet ISN’T getting the Holden Ute/El Camino because the brand has “too many models”?

The RWD Alpha needs to be underpinning the new G4, Solstice, and G6. The next Sky should get this platform, as well as Cadillac, for a model to slot in under the CTS. Buick should also get an AWD crossover sportwagon out of this deal, too.

But Chevrolet? The only case I see for a Chevrolet version of this platform is if, in the future, they decide to base the Camaro off of it. Otherwise, it makes NO SENSE.

Then again, the source is Motor Trend, which is wrong about future product plans (and their accompanying “artist renditions”) far more than they’re right.

Then again, the source is Motor Trend, which is wrong about future product plans (and their accompanying “artist renditions”) far more than they’re right.-inline6

Right you are inline6. Haha I laugh when I see Motortrend’s rendition of the C7 corvette and all their spy news. Half their stuff is pretty far off, but I mean it’s just as much speculation as anyone can do. But yeah I turn to Motor Trend last for future automotive news.

That would be the day they make the Cobalt RWD. That day will never come and shouldn’t. As much as we all may contest including myself, a FWD subcompact for chevy is a must. It’s a high seller for their line up and drives volume. I don’t see why everyone is freaking out here over this. It’s not necessarily a bad thing. Chevy too needs a RWD Sedan just as much as Pontiac does. Since the Malibu is probably never going to be RWD the Impala should and needs to be switched to RWD. That or come back out with the Caprice or Lumina and have that as their RWD sedan. The Middle east has that why can’t we? And a RWD vechicle for Cadillac priced under the CTS would also be nice. Nowadays you have to pay big $ for RWD hopefully GM can work around the future CAFE standards and do this. but as Commodore or whoever says they better be night and day, GM seems to somewhat be getting away from just rebadging vehicles that all looks the same, Only example where I think it’s working in is for their LAMBDA cross overs.

After giving this some further consideration, I have some a couple of questions to ask about this scenario:

1) Is a rear wheel drive compact sedan really going to be a “volume” product? I believe front wheel drive is the preferred architecture for “volume” compact sedans. I think an affordable, compact rear wheel drive sedan could be an excellent niche product, but never a “volume” product. Since this is the case, wouldn’t it make more sense for the product to be developed for GM’s affordable performance niche brand (Pontiac) instead of their affordable mass market brand (Chevrolet)?

2) Where does this product fit in Chevrolet’s product portfolio? It overlaps with the Cobalt (and the Malibu to a lesser extent). If GM would kill off the G5 (which should have never been in Pontiac’s lineup in the first place) and the G6, then the perfect opening will have been created for this product in the appropriate brand. This product would be the perfect “little brother” to the G8 sedan.

I think they need to seriously reevaluate this decision. It simply does not make any sense. Having Pontiac positioned as the affordable sibling to Cadillac offers GM the perfect environment for GM to offer these rear wheel drive products. Dropping a compact rear wheel drive sedan into Chevy’s lineup for no other reason than to satisfy corporate bean counters shows a total lack of logic or appropriate product allocation.

The best case scenario would be for Pontiac to receive a family of compact rear wheel drive products that would include a sedan, 5-door hatchback, coupe, and convertible as well as the NG Solstice roadster and coupe. I see Cadillac offering a luxury sedan, wagon, coupe-cabriolet (hard top convertible), and possibly a crossover on this platform. The only other U.S. brands that might get a product on this platform would be GMC (compact crossover) and Saturn (NG Sky). This would help keep brand identities intact and establish Pontiac (affordable) and Cadillac (luxury) as the major “go to” brands for rear drive vehicles.

I hope inline6 is correct about Motor Trend’s accuracy about this topic.

No!
Chevy should get a new FWD compact — substantially divorced from the cobalt.

Pontiac should get an Alpha, and NO Cadillac! Or Maybe alpha can be a BTS (there’s one in the Middle East) and a Riviera.

The Lambda program should have stopped at two.

Solstice and Sky should stay on kappa, then go to a new Kappa platform.

cookie4me “Since when does Pontiac not need a volume car? Looks like the accountants are winning back GM decisionmaking. A very bad thing.”
I agree.

toh0705a: “why not just trash the cobalt platform, replace it with a RWD platform, and keep the name?”
Not a bad idea.

L-88: “They should trade the Ute for this sedan with pontiac, that way there can be a proper El Camino, and more RWD cars for Pontiac.”
That’s fine, as well.

Scarface03: “I never liked the idea of a Chevy Lambda.” I still don’t, and I’m hoping the company pulls the plug on it before it happens.

“The lambda cross-overs are quality vehicles.” That’s like saying the New England Patriots can play some football.
“The fact that the Kappa platform may go bye-bye might be a sucker punch GM doesn’t need.” True.

golf4me: “Basically a 1series competitor for 10k less, nevermind a Civic Si killer!” Far as I’m concerned, any car that starts up when I turn the key is a Civic-killer.
And you’re right that GM (and everyone else) is missing the boat on mini-trucks.

Lp640: why don’t you remove you’re own appendix?

mazdaman: seems like you’re always here talking sense. Example: “If GM doesn’t drop this practice, they will never be able to clearly define their brands. The misguided brand allocation and horrible brand engineered cloning practice are a couple of reasons their brands became irrelevant in the first place.”

and “They definitely need to quit stuffing products into lineups just to satisfy accountants.”

inline6 SS4Life: Motor Trend is irrelevant, and has been since late ‘05.

Corporate bean counters aside, that looks like a great buy. I have been wanting that for 10+ years.

jackjimturkey….that was funny.

Everyone is right about Motor Trend too…I always get a good laugh when I read my old copies from the 70’s!

Yesss…bring it, GM! RWD vehicles FTW!

Oh, and more thread crap from LP640 as usual.

JJT, if they stopped at 2 Lambdas wouldn’t you be out an Enclave?

cookie4me: I would’ve preferred the Enclave and the Acadia OR Outlook.

Pontiac gets screwed yet again. Is anyone surprised?

THANK YOU! Finally, some good news for people who want to see Pontiac..well…not suck.

This makes me feel better about the Cadillac as well. While they will obviously be a lot different, people would criticize using the same platform for a run-of-the-mill Chevy. When the sister car is a “new Pontiac” mid-sized performance-oriented car, it should quiet some of the complainers.

Alpha Coupe + Luxury Appointments + Atlas 4.2L I6 + $30k nicely equipped = Buick Skylark. That would be sweet.

Replace the Atlas with a DI 3.6L V6, and good to go.

http://www.slate.com/id/2178776/?GT1=10733,

Hurray! Lutz vindicates GM on this one.

cookie: I bet the first one was true, then Lutz had that “conversation” with one of the LLN Posters (Maybe CA36GTP)

The more RWD the better!

there is still hope for pontiac….

JJT, they can’t prove a thing!

I love RWD, but this is too much too late. I can’t afford a new car now. Dammit.

Luxury Marks
Cadillac- Mid to high end luxury, technological and luxury showcase. Compete with Jaguar, Volvo, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, Infiniti and Lexus.

Buick- Entry to mid end luxury. Compete with Lincoln, Mercury, Acura and some other premium models. Possibly, Chrysler if they get they get their model lineup together.

Saab- Entry to mid end performance luxury, alternative fuel/premium showcase. Compete with BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and other premium automotive brands

Mainstream/ premium marks
Chevrolet- Bread & butter vehicles and trucks, possibly a conceptual showcase. Compete with Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Ford, Kia, Hyundai and Dodge.

Saturn- Just below entry level luxury, technology showcase for environment. Compete with Mercury, Toyota, Hyundai if they move upmarket, Chrysler, Nissan and other below premium marks..

Pontiac- Mild production sedans and performance oriented cars, situated between Chevrolet and Saturn. Performance oriented showcase. For the most part, compete with Ford, Mercury, Chrysler, Dodge, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Infiniti

SUV’s/ Utility Vehicles

Hummer- Mild production SUV’S, off-road showcase. Compete with Jeep mainly and POSSIBLY Land Rover, keep production keen.

GMC- Full production SUV’S and trucks above Chevrolet but below Saturn (SUV stopgap). Compete with Dodge, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Ford and possibly Lincoln with it’s top of the line vehicles.

That’s what my lineup would be. Some models overlap some, but I wanted to add what they showcase, as they may change your view some.
I don’t see Chevrolet getting a rear wheel drive vehicle as bad, simply because it’s rear wheel drive doesn’t mean it will be low production or performance oriented. As I see it now though, it would be best if they left their models front wheel drive to maintain fuel efficiency.

Another thing I see is lowering the production of Hummer and Pontiac, to make them still mainstream, but niche vehicles. This would also be a safeguard if fuel prices go up, or if the market goes down. I’m not so sure about Pontiac competing with BMW, albeit performance maybe, but that would be stretching it’s luxury marks some.

jjay: you give ford and honda’s faux-luxury divisions way too much credit

I think GM should bring back LaSalle as its hyperluxury marque

That makes more sense now. Pontiac MUST get any and all RWD vehicles it can.

jay - ok, but what was the point of that? Everyone knows that
Chevrolet = mainstream brand, competes with Toyota, Ford, etc.
Pontiac = exciting youthful brand, competes with Dodge, Scion, etc.
Saturn = import fighter brand, competes with Hyundai, Honda, etc.
Hummer = off road brand, competes with Land Rover, Jeep, etc.
Saab = euro luxury brand, focus on safety, competes with Volvo
Buick = 2nd tier luxury brand, competes with Infiniti, Acura, Lexus
Cadillac = 1st tier luxury brand, competes with BMW, Benz, Audi

pontiac will get the alpha based holden torana. which will be similar is design to the holden commodore (pontiac g8). this way the pontiacs will actually look related.

its the same reason why pontiac got the holden ute instead of chev. why would chev get the ute when its exactly the same (except for tray and stiffer rear springs) car as the pontiac g8. its dodgy rebadge jobs like that which are hurting gm.

which alpha car chev gets is another story

[edit] Ethnic pornography preferences in different regions
Main article: Pornography by region
Each different market has its own preferences, usually based on its own ethnic tensions and historical links with other ethnic groups, or in some cases little more that the “exotic”-ness of a particular ethnic group. Some of these are:

[edit] In the United States
Asian (see Asian fetish): Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai, Filipino [8]
South Asian:pornography features female performers who are of Bangladeshi, Indian, Nepalese, Pakistani & Sri Lankan origin.
European (normally only for a few specific fetishes): French, German, Spanish, Italian, Russian, Scandinavian, and more recently, Eastern European women, particularly from the countries of Hungary, Czech Republic and Romania
In American pornography, Germans are often associated with sadomasochistic themes. Nazi regalia and black leather frequently occur in these depictions; a German or German-accented dominatrix is a frequently recurring figure. Films such as Ilsa: She-Wolf of the SS play on these stereotypes.
In the 1960s and early 1970s, Scandinavia was frequently depicted as a sort of sexual paradise, a utopia of free love. Successful films from Sweden and Denmark, featuring sexual sub-themes, such as I Am Curious (Yellow) and Swedish Fly Girls furthered this stereotype.
African: Black/African-American,
North American: usually Americans of European American descent…
Latin/Latina: pornography features female performers who are (or appear to be) from Latin America or Latin Europe. Most are of Spanish, Portuguese, Native American or Mestiza (Native American/European) ancestry.
Polynesian: Hawaiian

Commodore: Now YOU’RE doing it!

Who cares Alpha Lambda they all suck Buy Japanese people

Saturn = import fighter brand, competes with Hyundai maybe suzuki thats it Honda doesnt have a thing to worry about

I see this forum completed work for GM marketing department for the next few quarters. Read this GM and relax, market shall come to you.