That’s right Badge engineer the platform to death why don’t you?

^^^ agree ^^^

I just woke up and noticed that GM is no longer the industry leader it was when I decided to take a nap about 40 years ago. It’s now the badge-engineering king and, sadly, most of their products are always 2 steps behind the competition. I’m going to sleep again, wake me up when GM is relevant in the automotive world…

Why do they keep doing this? Wagner said, there will be no more badge engineering and since then, it seems like every “new” GM product to come out is badge engineered.

Rip, I fail to see how the company that not only makes, but sells more vehicles each year than any other company, and has done so for the last 45 years, can be considered irrelevant.

I do, however, see blind hatred and prejudice spewing from your thoughts. Logic and reason have no home in your mind. I am not saying that GM is perfect. I am not saying that GM is world class in every category.

I am saying that your life must be pretty pathetic being as full of angst as you are, always looking for someone or something to be offended/angry at.

I think GM needs to not give a version of every car it develops to all of its nameplates…. really it is overkill and I think seriously undermines the vehicle they copy over and over. The Saturn Sky…. Pontiac Solstice…. Nice looking and maybe nice to drive….well now there are plans for a Saab version, a Chevy version…. probably a Buick version….LOL STOP IT GM!! You don’t see Toyota offering up a Scion verion of its Camry….

Sorry Mike, wrong assertion. My intention was to point out how GM, due to piss poor management, has slid from being a world class manufacturer to an also-ran and this decline shows very little signs of slowing down. Yeah, they’re huge and still sell tons of cars but are they as healthy as they were 4 decades ago? Are they as creative and innovative as the GM of the 1950s and 1960s? Size-wise companies like Toyota and Honda weren’t even a speck on GM’s radar 40 years ago, how are they doing today? Why do you suppose that is? GM has tumbled and all this badge engineering is just more proof that they’re having a hard time finding their own head. Believe me, I want GM to be a world leader again but badge engineering and blind faith are not the ways to accomplish that.

If GM was smart, they’d actually make a SAAB version (9-9x!), a Cadillac version (XVL) and a Pontiac version (G10) to go with the Chevy, Saturn, GMC, and Buick versions. Now that’s what you call leveraging your assets!!! GO GM!

Mike, I assume by world class you mean a product that is competetive at all levels with the best the worlds manufacturers have to offer in that market segment. Using that yardstick I cannot think of a single American Brand GM product that is world class. You are going to respond by saying the Corvette is world class to which i will say it is been very carefully positioned so that it has no competition. It is quite obviously not as good as a 911 but costs less. In fact the only time American brand product is top of the class is when it has no competition. You have said Sebring has no competition so it is top of its class, Caliber doesn’t compete with civic and Corolla (believe me it is cross shopped so it does)A BMW 3 series is world class because it can sell essentially unaltered in all of the worlds major markets. How many american products can that be said about?

Don’t forget a Suzuki version…

Seriously, a good thing is a good thing. The Enclave? That is a complete knockout, the Outlook? Bland city. So OK GM, now you have a top notch and a watered down version of the same vehicle. What the F is the point of spreading the same vehicle out to your other brands. The only outcome is you have brands competing with THEMSELVES for sales let alone trying to compete with the outside world.

You’d think they would have learned when they rebadged the Trailblazer 4 times and then wondering why Saab 9-7x sales are a failure…

I read that the Outlook was being dropped for a badge engineered Opel Antara http://www.opel.de

Mike Mike – blah blah blah….take it somewhere else, your hatred and angst. Why not be postive, productive…how about you get a job with GM and make GM better?

Go take a new Buick for a test drive, or a new Caddy. These are not the cars of even 5 years ago.

Mikey Mike: The Japanese, European, and American Honda Civic and Accord are all different, so is Honda not first class?

Paul D: I believe the Trailblazer was badge engineered 6 times: Chevy, GMC, Oldsmobile, Buick, Isuzu, Saab.

Settle down everyone. Motor Trend makes this stuff up all the time. A Chevy version of the Lambda would most likely be a minivan to replace the disgusting uplander.

So a half a dozen of the same vehicle ugh. I get a kick out of it when they try to put a positive spin on things by calling it “Badge Engineered”.

They slapped a different emblem on it and changed up the plastic pieces. My 2yo niece could have “Engineered” that stuff

They should just call it “facially altered”…

LOL! I love the hypocrites on here that throw out an insult and then say don’t be so angry. Crack me up.

First off, badge engineering works when it is done right. Poor badge engineering can be seen with the Solstice and Sky. The two products are so closely priced, they compete against eachother. Now add a Chevy “Stingray” to the mix, and they are ALL competeing against eachother.

A good example of badge engineering is the Chevrolet Avalanche and Cadillac EXT. The EXT fetches a much higher price point. Anyone who is in the market for an Avalanche will probably not consider the EXT because it’s in a whole other market.

Atomicbri, Toyota doesn’t have Scion offering a Camry, but the Lexus ES sure as hell looks like a Camry to me.

“A good example of badge engineering is the Chevrolet Avalanche and Cadillac EXT. The EXT fetches a much higher price point. Anyone who is in the market for an Avalanche will probably not consider the EXT because it’s in a whole other market.”

That just shows that the Avalanche buyer isn’t going to be suckered into foolishly paying 30 grand more for the same damn truck. Then again, the typical GM die-hard here on LLN would defend a 30 grand Cadillac badged Aveo if there were such a thing.

I personally don’t like the words Badge-Engineered.
But it is probably the only way to describe the way manufactures have to produce vehicles today.
But GM is not the King… I think this crown has to go yet again to Germany with Volkswagen. The golf platform has over 10 vehicles sharing this architecture and nobody in the media or the public is criticizing them for it. So what is the VAG-Group doing to this chassis that separates the Skoda Octavia from the Audi A3? It’s essentially the same car right? So what causes the 71% price difference between the two cars?
Is it the actual appearance?
The quality of the interior?
The ride and handling?
Or a combination of all plus the fact some people just want to have 4 rings on the front of their car?

I personally don’t want a Chevrolet or a Buick. But I wouldn’t mind a Saab… And why, because I feel I’m buying a better quality car that not everybody else is driving.

The 9-7x is no less badge-engineered than any vehicle Audi uses, or Porsche has badge-engineered for the Cayenne from the Touareg.
The 9-7x isn’t a failure either. With on average 400 sales a month this will amount to nearly 5000 units per annum. This figure is greater than some countries can produce for total Saab sales yearly. It contributes to nearly 4% of Saab’s total production for this year.

To finish:
GM needs to compete with the diversity of vehicles on the market today and what is scheduled in the next 5 years. GM needs 8 brands to compete with Hyundai, Toyota, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Land-Rover, Porsche, Volkswagen and anyone else who wants to steal their business.
Will the Enclave drive and have the same level of quality of the Acadia? What about an Opel/Saturn Outlook in Europe where GMC and Buick have not dealer representation?

What separates Audi from Skoda? Brand Identity and good marketing.

If GM wants to establish itself as ‘Global Leader’ once again, then they’re have to engineer every platform they have in order to achieve this. But every brand will have a ridged identity and every model will carry that ethos true to the bone.

The reason both the Skoda and the Audi are for sale, and are selling well are because they are made to look a handful more differentiated between each other than the GM models. I give GM credit that their models are starting to look SLIGHTLY more different, but barely. Just look at the Uplander/Relay/SV6/Buick whatever. They all look exactly the same. Smack a completely different body design on it and the platform may be useful. But minus a little chrome here and there and the badges, and you are left with identical cars. You take the badges off an A3 and the Skoda, and you can still tell the difference.

This is what is meant by BI (Brand Identity)
Audi has it’s design cues, as does seat etc,. They all share the same platform, but each Brand uses distinctly different sheet-metal to conform to its own (BI). But the variation between models goes deeper than that. The Cayenne although using the Touareg architecture uses different power-trains, suspension, compound of tyre, size of wheel and so forth, all contributing to a substantially different feel and drive.
This is in effect makes the difference between the vast ranges of the term ‘Badge-Engineered’. We have the Saturn Sky / Opel GT on one side of the scale, with the Chevrolet Trailblazer / Saab 9-7x on the other end.
Done correctly Badge-Engineering is possibly one of the greatest advancements in the modern motor industry. Without it manufacturers wouldn’t be able to offer the diversity of vehicles to the demanding public. Just because a company hasn’t done it right in the past, doesn’t mean they will continue to do it in the future.