Comments on: Sub-$40,000 price for Chevrolet Volt?

By: ajm11

ajm11 — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:50:41 +0000

cocojoe53 – Carstuff is correct the the internal combustion engine does not actually charge the batteries on the Volt. From everything that has been posted on that car, the gas engine is a generator that provides power to the electric motors directly after the batteries are out of power. The only way to charge the batteries on the Volt is to plug it in.

By: carstuff

carstuff — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 05:15:29 +0000

Just to be clear, I never said the Volt would be under $30k. My comment was to brocky who said that if Volt was above $30k it would be a fail. I think most would agree that at $31k with $7500 off GM would sell everyone they could build in the first 3 years. Of course they build is limited for the first 3 years.

And as you know I do not sensationalize, I deal with data and facts.

By: Architect

Architect — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 04:08:26 +0000

Borat – my “opinion” is that while holding to a particular philosophy (of any kind) should generally hold sway, there are always exceptions. The exception being that while I totally believe in free enterprise, it would have been a MONUMENTAL mistake to just wave bye-bye to the automotive industry. I don’t know how else to put it.

My point about “facts” is that you keep flaunting the “debt” that the Chinese hold through US treasuries as the second coming of the apocalypse. You should know that $900B is a large number, but it constitutes a very small portion of the overall debt, of which you and I are BY FAR the majority owner. So to that end, please quit sensationalizing the “facts”….

By: Borat

Borat — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:37:39 +0000

@Architect, the problem with your statement that you absolutely, without shadow absolutely sure that your opinion is realistic. I have no idea what saving key industries is, since I have no idea what industries are the key and to what or whom. There is nothing in the constitution about it.
There is no sensationalism in facts either (if they are really facts). That is the difference between our points of argument. If my facts are wrong, please point it out to me, I have no intention to dispute opinions: regardless of political spectrum they are not facts and not subject of argument. As old timers used to say: that is why God made Fords and Chevys.

By: Architect

Architect — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:17:45 +0000

@Borat – actually, I’m a staunch Republican who happens to have a realistic opinion about saving key industries. And I wasn’t harping on your opinion, but rather your sensationalism about the facts regarding debt.

By: floor_it

floor_it — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:08:51 +0000

@Borat – perhaps he was a casualty of said Revolution?

By: Borat

Borat — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:01:08 +0000

@carstuff, I almost pee my pants laughing. When Chevy will sell Volt for 30K minus 7500 rebate I promise to grow hair on my scalp where it reseeded 15 years ago! I swear. BTW, since are colleagues, what had happen to NMOFGM? He was fired, demoted, spent to much time on this blog? Or he simply got fed up with American Revolution?

By: floor_it

floor_it — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:58:48 +0000

The Acura styling should make it attractive to buyers, especially since it looks like the pre-goofy plenum era.

What will make this vehicle theoretically better than the Prius, et. al. is that its a parallel-hybrid rather than series-hybrid. Parallel makes more sense, engineering-wise. The electric motor doesn’t have to overcome the resistance of the gasoline engine when in electric-only mode.

Hopefully GM will emphasize this unique design, so it doesn’t just seem like a “hey we’re really late to the party, please buy it.”

By: carstuff

carstuff — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:12:41 +0000

brocky, at $30k with $7500 tax break you have a $22,500 car. That would be a steal. The base Volt will not be a “base” car. It is decently equipped.

If the final sale price is south of $30k they will sell every one they can build in the first 3 years. Especially if gas goes back over $3 and right now it is close to $3 around here. Once the economy warms up it will hit $4 pretty fast.

By: carstuff

carstuff — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:02:19 +0000

come on coco, you said the ICE charges the battery. You also did not mention the generator.

“A hybird that basically uses a gas engine to keep its battery charged is an engineering concept that is critically flawed”

Again the ICE never charges the battery through the generator or any other means.

The whole idea is to use the entire battery charge from the cheaper “wall” source. To use the ice to charge the battery and then use the battery to run the wheel motor is not only less efficient but it would be possible that when, at the end of the day plug it into the wall, will have “expensive” ice supplied charge in it. That is a method that would be critically flawed.

The only real flaw to the Volt concept is the expensive batteries. And as we have read here in other LLN articles battery size and cost should plummet in the next 3 years. It will take time and there are no garuntees but I bet in 6 years we will be amazed at how battery size and cost have dropped. That is why most every marque is preparing ev’s for production.

By: brocky

brocky — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 19:50:01 +0000

Anything above 30k would be a fail.

By: cocojoe53

cocojoe53 — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:38:23 +0000

Car Stuff?????? The ICE does not directly power the electric motor. Think about it. Its basic. A electric motor runs on……….electricity. What provides electricity? NOT an ICE. It is used to charge the battery pack while the car is in motion. The plug is to charge the battery while the car is parked. We can discuss this at the local bar….Leftwing is buying…….

By: leftwingagenda

leftwingagenda — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:22:19 +0000

when my ice melts, i order a fresh manhattan…

By: carstuff

carstuff — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:21:01 +0000

sorry, internal combustion engine

By: Borat

Borat — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:39:18 +0000

I thought when ICE runs, iceberg melts

By: carstuff

carstuff — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 14:12:42 +0000

coco, unfortunately your premise is incorrect so you are incorrect.

The volt ICE does not charge the Volt battery. You plug the Volt into the wall socket to charge the battery. When the ICE runs it directly powers the electric motor.

By: cptamazing

cptamazing — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 14:00:41 +0000

LOL, why don’t you haters STFU, the domestics are coming out back on top. Between Ford and GM they will own every segment. Of course GM could go back to building bombers and blow the sh1t out of japan again. Compelling idea.

By: jdasch1

jdasch1 — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:04:38 +0000

The first major car company that builds a production sub $50k serial hybrid with a plug in option will sell like hotcakes. Is it GM or Toyota or ??? Doesn’t matter early on, because us dummies out here will buy one just to experience it. Hope its not just all a bunch of vaporware. I personally just want it to be some other company than Toyota (dealer a jerk to deal with), or GM because of the distaste I have for the whole “bailed out bankruptcy” thing.

By: cocojoe53

cocojoe53 — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 05:37:50 +0000

I understand the feeling we all should be supporting the American Auto business. But really, at what cost? If you want to buy American and get a very well engineered car, buy a Ford Fusion Hybird….

By: Borat

Borat — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 04:01:23 +0000

Johnny, this is car size of Civic which cost twice as much. None of know how it handles, which probably does not matter to early adopters, who will be in fact DNC members and sponsors (God bless). However, at some point this car will need to be sold to general public. Hopefully, before it will be sold to public, there will be no major recall due to batteries, computing technology etc. I worked with software for a long time, bugs are part of life, we all have browser hanging, we all know what happened with drive by wire, now multiply drive by wire 20 times and add to the mix absolutely new battery production technology which was put into production yesterday. The car will be baked in a few months, based on reports, and I believe it when I will see the car on the road. BTW, I do hope that your gut is right, ’cause I don’t want my children inherit national debt on this crap, I probably won’t live long enough to pay it off. Some economic stats: average family in US makes slightly above 39K/year; our national debt is 39K per person.

By: cocojoe53

cocojoe53 — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 03:59:03 +0000

Vaporware is right…How sick am I of all these cars that GM tells me are on the way……Every day a new one is announced. Unless its MRSP is below 30K, it will fail. If the concept was sound, Toyota would have done it 5 years ago. A hybird that basically uses a gas engine to keep its battery charged is an engineering concept that is critically flawed.

By: johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 02:43:25 +0000

Now, now Borat, you and I represent the senior members of this forum. In fact at our age we should be pleased that our members work at all… at least without the aid of little blue pills. And speaking of things that start with the letter V, I have a gut feeling the Volt is going to do better than a lot of people expect. Of course my gut is also one of those things that isn’t exactly where it used to be so that may not be much to go on.

By: Borat

Borat — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 02:27:18 +0000

@Architect, did you blow balloons for DNC? Very reminiscent of young party boys who blow party horn with complete disregard for other opinions.

By: carstuff

carstuff — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 01:53:24 +0000

85, GM sure cannot please anyone.

In the last Volt battery article some guy said that the Volt is taking too long and its been 5 years since GM showed the concept (incorrect as usual-3 years to the day).

Now its not long enough!

By: carstuff

carstuff — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 01:50:59 +0000

Raineman, I am really surprised how you throw around your “predictions”. 2012??? The Volt is in production now with production intent parts being built (the battery is the one they just completed). These are not prototypes but parts off actual tools.

Scheduled release date is November of this year. Sure some slippage may happen but no way it will slip until 2012.

Of course this is the internet and anyone can say anything and no one really cares if they look foolish so they can say anything they want.

By: ToldYa

ToldYa — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 00:20:47 +0000

The Prius will always be the people’s choice for green affordable driving – Lets wait for the official pricing….However by the time production gets going at full capacity 2012- Toyota will have technology and cars ready to go that’s a decade ahead of this very hyped automobile.

By: l.sanchez

l.sanchez — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 00:04:06 +0000

This IS going to be an expensive project for GM, but they are banking on the fact that the good PR from producing the first mass produced electric car with decent range will send a halo around GM as a whole. That is a great idea and great thinking…Eventually electric cars will be cheaper, but they always start high.

Oh, one other thing zero-driver…The volt is FAR better looking than a prius…

By: howsmydriving

howsmydriving — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 00:02:09 +0000

Volt will take America (and the world) by storm — my prediction. I’m surprised that all of you xenophobes who equate the success of foreign automakers with the decline of America aren’t stumbling over yourselves to praise Volt.

By: Architect

Architect — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 23:03:54 +0000

I think the Volt is styled quite nicely. Sharp. Buttoned-down. It’s not as avante garde as the concept, but that would never have sold as a mainline sedan, which this is intended to be.

By: DenverGuy217

DenverGuy217 — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:07:12 +0000

Most Priuses I’ve seen on the lots are either the entry-level $23k models or the loaded $32k+ models so Chevy has a good chance here. 95% of the potential audience has not seen the Volt photos over the past couple of years like all of us constantly online, so the styling might not appear as dated to them

By: Architect

Architect — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:05:59 +0000

Borat – again, save us all the overblown government motors crap and Chinese treasury hype.

By: idrinorbarsaku

idrinorbarsaku — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:50:08 +0000

I know all you GM fanatics will jump the gun and call me out…don’t waste your time. I don’t frikin care!

By: idrinorbarsaku

idrinorbarsaku — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:49:14 +0000

Up until yesterday, GM was on OK grounds with us, but that all drastically changed! F U GM! Hope this car fails MISERABLY!!!!!!!!

By: Ic3m4n

Ic3m4n — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:42:19 +0000

Once again Leftwing you’ve hit the nail on the head…

oh and Z06, who’s the real stupid person, someone who voices their opinion? or someone calls that person stupid because they disagree with the opinion? When you resort to flat out name calling, your posts lose all credibility.

By: jayjc08

jayjc08 — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:42:07 +0000

Chris C.- Good point that I didn’t really realize until now. That would mean this vehicle would still cost well North of 30k for me, and I suppose for most people.

By: rzegatl

rzegatl — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:28:44 +0000

Hiro Driver is the new Asian NMOFGM. What ever happened to that fool?

By: Chris C.

Chris C. — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:27:41 +0000

The tax credit is a bit deceiving. It’s $7,500 that would be deducted from any amounts you owe. If you owe less than $7,500, it will pay that amount, but you do NOT get the difference back. Further, if you owe the IRS nothing, you won’t get $7,500 cash.

By: leftwingagenda

leftwingagenda — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:24:36 +0000

meh…too much drama, imo…i wouldn’t expect a first gen new technology platform to be a huge seller…it takes years and multiple iterations before folks catch on, unless it’s a completely game-changing car – and there hasn’t been a game changing car in decades (other than the Model T, what really has been game changing in cars? everything since has been evolutionary), cars all do pretty much the same thing…this isn’t like an ipod or iphone deal, where there’s going to be rapid adoption of new tech…

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:22:35 +0000

It’s still the Chevy Vapor… if it appears on dealer lots before 2012 I’ll be surprised.

If it makes it to market… and if they can price it at $35,000 or less, they will have a winner on their hands.

By: 85ZingoGTR

85ZingoGTR — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:07:38 +0000

Well, its a start. Atleast they’re trying to make it somewhat competitive. But I still believe this car needed a little more time in the R&D lab before being rushed into production. This is a huge gamble for them that they CANNOT afford to lose.

By: carstuff

carstuff — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:06:23 +0000

I’ve studied this before and discussed with Dave Cole. The Volt, in looking at components should not be much more than a Prius in cost. However you have to add in the batteries. We saw that $40k is a bit high. But then again this is all new like the Prius was 10 years ago and the Prius just started making money last year.

By: Z06ified

Z06ified — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:04:18 +0000

Oh look, there goes a stupid person now: hiro-driver.

By: Z06ified

Z06ified — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:03:37 +0000

They need to straighten out the pricing ASAP. The $40k rumored price has already spread like wildfire, and I know some people (not too smart) who have already written off the Volt as too expensive and not worth it, and they wouldn’t even consider it. That’s a problem, because perception is > than reality with stupid people.

By: hiro-driver

hiro-driver — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:03:26 +0000

This is going to be such a costly failure, the Prius is the gold-standard for hybrids. GM will never be able to build a better car than Toyota.

By: cocksterS

cocksterS — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:58:44 +0000

I hope they price it at or below $37,499. Whatever mixed feelings I have regarding hybrids, I’d really like to see GM succeed with this one.