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	<title>Comments on: Chrysler tweaks vans for 8 percent fuel economy gain</title>
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		<title>By: 02WRXPSM</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-409105</link>
		<dc:creator>02WRXPSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-409105</guid>
		<description>Our 4,600lb RDX gets around just fine with a 2.3 liter inline four, so I think your reluctance to see such an engine in a minivan is unwarranted. Then again, soccer moms don&#039;t like turbo lag :-) Also, inline-4 motors under very high stress have been powering Europe and Japan&#039;s cars since the &#039;60s; even Audi used them for quite some time. If they didn&#039;t hold up, they wouldn&#039;t be using them, and the Japanese and Euros like their cars cheap and reliable. 

 The V8 is the single V configuration that makes sense, because of the symmetrical (square) firing order. You don&#039;t need to add balance shafts and the overall engine configuration can be made surprisingly small. The only problem with a V8 is that they are tough to lubricate and cool, because of the monster surface area of even small-displacement V8s and the amount of metal in the block. I&#039;d take a V8 over a V6 any day, as the V6 is just too many compromises in its design.

Europe (again) already has a solution to the too-long i6 problem; the inline-5. Volvo and VW have been making inline 5s for decades, and they are a really solid, well-tested and reliable design. Also, an inline-5 is actually smoother and has a flatter torque curve than either an inline 4 or an inline 6. Why? A 4-cylinder has a 720-degree cycle, in which the crankshaft rotates twice; it takes it a full two crankshaft revolutions to fire all four cylinders, and there is no overlap, so there are parts of the cycle in which no piston is firing and the engine just coasts on its own mass. An inline 5 has a shorter power stroke of 144 degrees, so there is a small amount of overlap between power strokes, and it fills in those power gaps. That&#039;s why you get more torque, and fewer parts and less need for touchy variable-valving and other hand-holding. VTEC in an inline-four is actually an attempt to simulate overlap. 

Which brings me back to my original argument, that the V6 is marketing. The I5 is a totally superior design; even US manufacturers have begun using them in trucks (the H3 had one, as did the Colorado). However, people react to them like this -- &quot;it has 5 cylinders??&quot; and their primitive brains recoil in fear at the odd number.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our 4,600lb RDX gets around just fine with a 2.3 liter inline four, so I think your reluctance to see such an engine in a minivan is unwarranted. Then again, soccer moms don&#8217;t like turbo lag <img src='http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Also, inline-4 motors under very high stress have been powering Europe and Japan&#8217;s cars since the &#8217;60s; even Audi used them for quite some time. If they didn&#8217;t hold up, they wouldn&#8217;t be using them, and the Japanese and Euros like their cars cheap and reliable. </p>
<p> The V8 is the single V configuration that makes sense, because of the symmetrical (square) firing order. You don&#8217;t need to add balance shafts and the overall engine configuration can be made surprisingly small. The only problem with a V8 is that they are tough to lubricate and cool, because of the monster surface area of even small-displacement V8s and the amount of metal in the block. I&#8217;d take a V8 over a V6 any day, as the V6 is just too many compromises in its design.</p>
<p>Europe (again) already has a solution to the too-long i6 problem; the inline-5. Volvo and VW have been making inline 5s for decades, and they are a really solid, well-tested and reliable design. Also, an inline-5 is actually smoother and has a flatter torque curve than either an inline 4 or an inline 6. Why? A 4-cylinder has a 720-degree cycle, in which the crankshaft rotates twice; it takes it a full two crankshaft revolutions to fire all four cylinders, and there is no overlap, so there are parts of the cycle in which no piston is firing and the engine just coasts on its own mass. An inline 5 has a shorter power stroke of 144 degrees, so there is a small amount of overlap between power strokes, and it fills in those power gaps. That&#8217;s why you get more torque, and fewer parts and less need for touchy variable-valving and other hand-holding. VTEC in an inline-four is actually an attempt to simulate overlap. </p>
<p>Which brings me back to my original argument, that the V6 is marketing. The I5 is a totally superior design; even US manufacturers have begun using them in trucks (the H3 had one, as did the Colorado). However, people react to them like this &#8212; &#8220;it has 5 cylinders??&#8221; and their primitive brains recoil in fear at the odd number.</p>
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		<title>By: beatusmongous</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408930</link>
		<dc:creator>beatusmongous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408930</guid>
		<description>And yet Top Fuel pushes 7,000 HP out of a V8.  Granted, it&#039;s a different fuel and very different parts, but it&#039;s still a V8.

V has been associated with power for good reason.  Jaguar chose a V6 for the XJ220, and it was considered the fastest production car in the world for many years (bested by the McLaren F1).  Many people swap out their I6 engines for a Chevy 350 or other V8s for the drag strip.  Instead of 10&#039;s, they want 6&#039;s and 7&#039;s.  It&#039;s not uncommon to see cars that used to have I6 engines now fitted with small block V8s in order to get more power out of them.

But, that&#039;s not to say that I6s are not capable of tremendous power.  I&#039;ve seen Nissan Skylines with their 2.6L I6 engines pushing 1,300+ HP.  That&#039;s not bad considering how small the engine is.  That would be like a Dodge Neon or PT Cruiser pushing out that much power.  Different engine type, I know, but similar displacement.  It&#039;s just for comparison purposes.

However, I think the V6 is used in minivans for a couple of reasons.  Marketing is one, but I have a bit of a problem with that argument.  I honestly don&#039;t believe the majority of car buyers even understand things like torque, horsepower, displacement and engine configuration.  Most people don&#039;t buy cars all the time, so they don&#039;t study performance like we enthusiasts do.  It would be like buying a computer or a dishwasher for many of us because some of us don&#039;t look at gigahertz, RAM, or liters per minute.  Many of us would probably look at the sales guy and say, &quot;Um, is that good?&quot;  I feel that most car buyers are like that, and my experiences of watching car sales people interact with customers is that the car sales person can throw out all sorts of numbers and useless facts, and most customers just nod their head in bewildered agreement.  But when it comes to horsepower, for the most part, only men care about that.  But do men choose minivans?  Not very often, quite honestly.  I find that in most minivan purchases (including mine), men do the buying, but the women do the choosing.  And most women (my wife was just like this) could care less about horsepower and torque.  My wife asked me, &quot;Why do I need 240 HP?  It&#039;s not like we&#039;ll be going over 100 mph all the time.&quot;  She&#039;s right.  Horsepower isn&#039;t important to most women because they don&#039;t race around the street all the time.  So, yeah, the V6 affects the marketing, but in vain.

I&#039;m in television marketing, by the way.  I do a lot of buyer research as part of my job.

The I4 is not commonly used in today&#039;s minivans because of many other things, and sales is not one of them.  Most minivans in the US these days weigh in excess of 4,000 lbs., and they seat 7 adults (adding another 1,050 lbs. assuming each adult weighs only 150 lbs.).  A small 4 cylinder engine, even a turbo 4 cylinder engine, would not be able to pull such weight (5,000 lbs.) without putting an extreme strain on the engine.  Because of this, the gas mileage of a 4 cylinder minivan will suffer, as will the reliability of the engine.  Yeah, chances are you won&#039;t get a minivan to go more than 250,000 miles before the customer trades it in, but a 4 cylinder may not even make it to 150,000 miles.  Parts under high stress tend to wear out faster.

And if they were to make a more reliable 4 cylinder engine with very high quality parts, it would add to the already hefty price of the current minivans.  Mine was just under $25,000, and I thought that was a lot.  But I&#039;ve seen minivans get up to $46,000 (ridiculous).  People in that price range should be looking at something other than a minivan.  Anything more expensive, and they most likely have no kids to feed (and therefore no use for a minivan).

As far as an I6, I think it would be great if they could put an I6 in a minivan.  I&#039;d be the first to get one.  However, the I6 creates two problems:

1) I used to have a 280Z, which had a 2.8L I6.  That engine was long.  Sticking that in a minivan would mean that they would need to make the nose longer, thereby defeating the purpose of a minivan, which is to maximize front to rear cargo space by making the engine compartment as shallow as possible.  My minivan is 17 feet long, and only 2.5 feet of that is the hood.  Stick an I6 in there, and it might have to be 19 feet long to have the same cargo space.  The thing barely fits in my garage as is.  The only other way I could see to do it would be to mount the engine sideways.  But I doubt that would fit right, because a sideways-mounted V8 is still only 4 cylinders long.  Add two more cylinders to the end of that, and you have an I6.  An I6 is simply a long engine.  Basically, I think the manufacturers wanted to get 6 cylinders into the minivans, and the V6 was the most practical way to do it.

2) I6 engines are torquey.  I know, I had one.  The car would twist up and to the right when I&#039;d take off, and that was a great feeling.  Yeah, other cars can do that, too.  But for such a small engine, it produced a lot of torque.  Other I6 engines are known for torque, like the Cummins diesel that Rams use, and the Jeep I6 in the Wrangler.  The Supra was torquey, too.  However, all of those vehicles have one thing in common:  They are not FWD.  In FWD, if you have too much torque, you&#039;ll go through CV joints like mad.  I really think I6 engines are too torquey for FWD configurations.  AWD and 4WD is a bit different, because a good portion of the torque is going to the rear wheels.  But FWD is exclusively sending the power to the front wheels, which presents a reliability issue.  And in a minivan, you don&#039;t want many screaming soccer moms coming in to get CV joints fixed.

Let&#039;s keep in mind, though, that each manufacturer has the best engineers they can afford working on their cars.  They have many goals to accomplish, including making more efficient configurations, maximizing engine reliability and keeping the price point within certain limits.  A lot of development goes in to making these cars, and that development includes experimentation and testing.  I&#039;m sure I6 engines for minivans were considered, and I&#039;m sure they were ruled out for many reasons.
 
 
 
 
My wife has since discovered why 240 HP is a good thing to have in a minivan.  And she&#039;s discovered how quick our minivan can come to a complete stop, and she was impressed.  Scared, but impressed.  And happy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yet Top Fuel pushes 7,000 HP out of a V8.  Granted, it&#8217;s a different fuel and very different parts, but it&#8217;s still a V8.</p>
<p>V has been associated with power for good reason.  Jaguar chose a V6 for the XJ220, and it was considered the fastest production car in the world for many years (bested by the McLaren F1).  Many people swap out their I6 engines for a Chevy 350 or other V8s for the drag strip.  Instead of 10&#8217;s, they want 6&#8217;s and 7&#8217;s.  It&#8217;s not uncommon to see cars that used to have I6 engines now fitted with small block V8s in order to get more power out of them.</p>
<p>But, that&#8217;s not to say that I6s are not capable of tremendous power.  I&#8217;ve seen Nissan Skylines with their 2.6L I6 engines pushing 1,300+ HP.  That&#8217;s not bad considering how small the engine is.  That would be like a Dodge Neon or PT Cruiser pushing out that much power.  Different engine type, I know, but similar displacement.  It&#8217;s just for comparison purposes.</p>
<p>However, I think the V6 is used in minivans for a couple of reasons.  Marketing is one, but I have a bit of a problem with that argument.  I honestly don&#8217;t believe the majority of car buyers even understand things like torque, horsepower, displacement and engine configuration.  Most people don&#8217;t buy cars all the time, so they don&#8217;t study performance like we enthusiasts do.  It would be like buying a computer or a dishwasher for many of us because some of us don&#8217;t look at gigahertz, RAM, or liters per minute.  Many of us would probably look at the sales guy and say, &#8220;Um, is that good?&#8221;  I feel that most car buyers are like that, and my experiences of watching car sales people interact with customers is that the car sales person can throw out all sorts of numbers and useless facts, and most customers just nod their head in bewildered agreement.  But when it comes to horsepower, for the most part, only men care about that.  But do men choose minivans?  Not very often, quite honestly.  I find that in most minivan purchases (including mine), men do the buying, but the women do the choosing.  And most women (my wife was just like this) could care less about horsepower and torque.  My wife asked me, &#8220;Why do I need 240 HP?  It&#8217;s not like we&#8217;ll be going over 100 mph all the time.&#8221;  She&#8217;s right.  Horsepower isn&#8217;t important to most women because they don&#8217;t race around the street all the time.  So, yeah, the V6 affects the marketing, but in vain.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in television marketing, by the way.  I do a lot of buyer research as part of my job.</p>
<p>The I4 is not commonly used in today&#8217;s minivans because of many other things, and sales is not one of them.  Most minivans in the US these days weigh in excess of 4,000 lbs., and they seat 7 adults (adding another 1,050 lbs. assuming each adult weighs only 150 lbs.).  A small 4 cylinder engine, even a turbo 4 cylinder engine, would not be able to pull such weight (5,000 lbs.) without putting an extreme strain on the engine.  Because of this, the gas mileage of a 4 cylinder minivan will suffer, as will the reliability of the engine.  Yeah, chances are you won&#8217;t get a minivan to go more than 250,000 miles before the customer trades it in, but a 4 cylinder may not even make it to 150,000 miles.  Parts under high stress tend to wear out faster.</p>
<p>And if they were to make a more reliable 4 cylinder engine with very high quality parts, it would add to the already hefty price of the current minivans.  Mine was just under $25,000, and I thought that was a lot.  But I&#8217;ve seen minivans get up to $46,000 (ridiculous).  People in that price range should be looking at something other than a minivan.  Anything more expensive, and they most likely have no kids to feed (and therefore no use for a minivan).</p>
<p>As far as an I6, I think it would be great if they could put an I6 in a minivan.  I&#8217;d be the first to get one.  However, the I6 creates two problems:</p>
<p>1) I used to have a 280Z, which had a 2.8L I6.  That engine was long.  Sticking that in a minivan would mean that they would need to make the nose longer, thereby defeating the purpose of a minivan, which is to maximize front to rear cargo space by making the engine compartment as shallow as possible.  My minivan is 17 feet long, and only 2.5 feet of that is the hood.  Stick an I6 in there, and it might have to be 19 feet long to have the same cargo space.  The thing barely fits in my garage as is.  The only other way I could see to do it would be to mount the engine sideways.  But I doubt that would fit right, because a sideways-mounted V8 is still only 4 cylinders long.  Add two more cylinders to the end of that, and you have an I6.  An I6 is simply a long engine.  Basically, I think the manufacturers wanted to get 6 cylinders into the minivans, and the V6 was the most practical way to do it.</p>
<p>2) I6 engines are torquey.  I know, I had one.  The car would twist up and to the right when I&#8217;d take off, and that was a great feeling.  Yeah, other cars can do that, too.  But for such a small engine, it produced a lot of torque.  Other I6 engines are known for torque, like the Cummins diesel that Rams use, and the Jeep I6 in the Wrangler.  The Supra was torquey, too.  However, all of those vehicles have one thing in common:  They are not FWD.  In FWD, if you have too much torque, you&#8217;ll go through CV joints like mad.  I really think I6 engines are too torquey for FWD configurations.  AWD and 4WD is a bit different, because a good portion of the torque is going to the rear wheels.  But FWD is exclusively sending the power to the front wheels, which presents a reliability issue.  And in a minivan, you don&#8217;t want many screaming soccer moms coming in to get CV joints fixed.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s keep in mind, though, that each manufacturer has the best engineers they can afford working on their cars.  They have many goals to accomplish, including making more efficient configurations, maximizing engine reliability and keeping the price point within certain limits.  A lot of development goes in to making these cars, and that development includes experimentation and testing.  I&#8217;m sure I6 engines for minivans were considered, and I&#8217;m sure they were ruled out for many reasons.</p>
<p>My wife has since discovered why 240 HP is a good thing to have in a minivan.  And she&#8217;s discovered how quick our minivan can come to a complete stop, and she was impressed.  Scared, but impressed.  And happy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: 02WRXPSM</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408917</link>
		<dc:creator>02WRXPSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408917</guid>
		<description>Hm, hit save by mistake. Anyway, the current Volvo 2.3 liter N/A inline 5 motor makes 168hp at 5500rpm and 170lbs/tq at 3300. That is on regular gas, not diesel. The turbo T5 inline 5 makes 227hp at 5500 and 268lbs/tq at 2,200 rpm. Flat, solid torque curves; the turbo model is using less than 8 PSI of boost from a tiny turbo the size of a grapefruit. The reason this minivan has a 4.0 liter V6 in it has nothing to do with bad American engineering, it has to do with MARKETING. Unlike overseas, where expensive gas and short roads have kept the engineers and drivers sober and skeptical, here in the US the domestics have been using &quot;V&quot; and &quot;liter&quot; as marketing buzzwords for power and performance. The average American has been so brainwashed by this, if you gave them the choice of a V6 or inline 4 motor for the same car, and the V6 got worse gas mileage, was noisier, made less power and required premium fuel they would still choose the V6 as long as it had more liters. Ask any car salesman, they&#039;ll back this up. Americans have learned (through marketing) to associate inlines with cheap Japanese gas-sipper economy cars, and &quot;V&quot; with any kind of performance or muscle. When the Mark IV Toyota Supra came to the US in the &#039;90s, everyone laughed their asses off -- I remember reading articles which said &quot;look, the Japanese tried to make a Corvette, how cute&quot; and snorting at the 3.0 liter inline six, no match for American V8s. Then they started to show up at drag strips with 1,000+ horsepower on the stock block and turn in 10-second times, and the laughing stopped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, hit save by mistake. Anyway, the current Volvo 2.3 liter N/A inline 5 motor makes 168hp at 5500rpm and 170lbs/tq at 3300. That is on regular gas, not diesel. The turbo T5 inline 5 makes 227hp at 5500 and 268lbs/tq at 2,200 rpm. Flat, solid torque curves; the turbo model is using less than 8 PSI of boost from a tiny turbo the size of a grapefruit. The reason this minivan has a 4.0 liter V6 in it has nothing to do with bad American engineering, it has to do with MARKETING. Unlike overseas, where expensive gas and short roads have kept the engineers and drivers sober and skeptical, here in the US the domestics have been using &#8220;V&#8221; and &#8220;liter&#8221; as marketing buzzwords for power and performance. The average American has been so brainwashed by this, if you gave them the choice of a V6 or inline 4 motor for the same car, and the V6 got worse gas mileage, was noisier, made less power and required premium fuel they would still choose the V6 as long as it had more liters. Ask any car salesman, they&#8217;ll back this up. Americans have learned (through marketing) to associate inlines with cheap Japanese gas-sipper economy cars, and &#8220;V&#8221; with any kind of performance or muscle. When the Mark IV Toyota Supra came to the US in the &#8217;90s, everyone laughed their asses off &#8212; I remember reading articles which said &#8220;look, the Japanese tried to make a Corvette, how cute&#8221; and snorting at the 3.0 liter inline six, no match for American V8s. Then they started to show up at drag strips with 1,000+ horsepower on the stock block and turn in 10-second times, and the laughing stopped.</p>
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		<title>By: 02WRXPSM</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408916</link>
		<dc:creator>02WRXPSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408916</guid>
		<description>More powerful parts? Riiigt. Inline motors can regularly create more torque than HP because of a lack of overlap through the firing cycle (v6 motors have up to 10 degrees of overlap at TDC). In something like a Minivan, you need torque, not horsepower; torque gets you from zero at the stoplight up to your cruising speed, you don&#039;t need horsepower unless you plan to push to high speeds or high RPMs. An American V-6 rarely lives past 250k miles, regardless of the power application, while Volvo motors have made it to over a million miles. As for being easier to work on, that&#039;s just silly; the configuration of a motor has nothing to do with this, both have their strengths and drawbacks. A V6 has double the camshafts and belts, but also has harmonic balancers and a &quot;lazy&quot; firing pattern which allows them to run while significantly out of tune; the inlines have less tolerance for timing problems but can fire more often per stroke (longer power stroke) for more power at low RPMs. Boxer configurations are an attempt to take the advantages of the inline configuration (180-degree stroke to the crankshaft, long power stroke, little overlap) and lay it out in a way which allows mounting the motor lower in the car, to keep the center of gravity near the axles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More powerful parts? Riiigt. Inline motors can regularly create more torque than HP because of a lack of overlap through the firing cycle (v6 motors have up to 10 degrees of overlap at TDC). In something like a Minivan, you need torque, not horsepower; torque gets you from zero at the stoplight up to your cruising speed, you don&#8217;t need horsepower unless you plan to push to high speeds or high RPMs. An American V-6 rarely lives past 250k miles, regardless of the power application, while Volvo motors have made it to over a million miles. As for being easier to work on, that&#8217;s just silly; the configuration of a motor has nothing to do with this, both have their strengths and drawbacks. A V6 has double the camshafts and belts, but also has harmonic balancers and a &#8220;lazy&#8221; firing pattern which allows them to run while significantly out of tune; the inlines have less tolerance for timing problems but can fire more often per stroke (longer power stroke) for more power at low RPMs. Boxer configurations are an attempt to take the advantages of the inline configuration (180-degree stroke to the crankshaft, long power stroke, little overlap) and lay it out in a way which allows mounting the motor lower in the car, to keep the center of gravity near the axles.</p>
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		<title>By: jayjc08</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408785</link>
		<dc:creator>jayjc08</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408785</guid>
		<description>02WRXPSM- Yeah, but you figure the ones in applications such as high powered cars don&#039;t last very long. Not to say they aren&#039;t reliable, but high pressures and smaller, more powerful parts. Volvo motors may have very flat torque, or atleast used to, but they never got much horsepower (120-180 horsepower in most applications, if I remember right). A lot of Mercedes motors like that are diesels. I can&#039;t think of any off the top of my head that make that much torque without making just as much substantial horsepower. part of the reason tractors and other heavy applications have inline engines is their more simple to fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>02WRXPSM- Yeah, but you figure the ones in applications such as high powered cars don&#8217;t last very long. Not to say they aren&#8217;t reliable, but high pressures and smaller, more powerful parts. Volvo motors may have very flat torque, or atleast used to, but they never got much horsepower (120-180 horsepower in most applications, if I remember right). A lot of Mercedes motors like that are diesels. I can&#8217;t think of any off the top of my head that make that much torque without making just as much substantial horsepower. part of the reason tractors and other heavy applications have inline engines is their more simple to fix.</p>
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		<title>By: 02WRXPSM</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408628</link>
		<dc:creator>02WRXPSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 05:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408628</guid>
		<description>No, you are wrong. Volvo has been making 2.4-liter non-turbo inline 5 motors that have a flat torque curve from 1,600 rpm up for almost four decades. Look at most Mercedes motors, a lot of them make 200+ lbs/torque with 2.3 liters. You are still thinking V6 -- inline configurations produce MUCH more torque and HP than V configurations. Every motor in a heavy work vehicle (train, bulldozer, tractor) is an inline. Any motor that produces less than 95hp/liter should just plain be against the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, you are wrong. Volvo has been making 2.4-liter non-turbo inline 5 motors that have a flat torque curve from 1,600 rpm up for almost four decades. Look at most Mercedes motors, a lot of them make 200+ lbs/torque with 2.3 liters. You are still thinking V6 &#8212; inline configurations produce MUCH more torque and HP than V configurations. Every motor in a heavy work vehicle (train, bulldozer, tractor) is an inline. Any motor that produces less than 95hp/liter should just plain be against the law.</p>
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		<title>By: A4</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408623</link>
		<dc:creator>A4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408623</guid>
		<description>and 02wrxpsm, a 2.0l with 200+ horsepower has no torque without a turbo. Moms wont be revving the hell out of their minivan like a civic Si driver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and 02wrxpsm, a 2.0l with 200+ horsepower has no torque without a turbo. Moms wont be revving the hell out of their minivan like a civic Si driver.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: swamprat</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408594</link>
		<dc:creator>swamprat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408594</guid>
		<description>If any of you voted for the braying, snorting Jackasses back in 2006 because you spoiled American children had a temper tantrum over Katrina and Iraq, its payback time for you, and you ain&#039;t seen nothin&#039; yet. The first installment of the 35 mpg CAFE requirement begins in 2011 and will phase in until 2020. The Odumboites want to raise it to 40 and Hillary Clinton even talked about 55 mpg (!). Even shithead McCain wants to give away our money for battery powered cars and has signed on to Global Warming arguments.

In another article, there is talk of the Charger SE losing about 12 HP out of its already underpowered 190HP engine.

Get ready, grab your ankles because you are in for a swift kick in the ass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If any of you voted for the braying, snorting Jackasses back in 2006 because you spoiled American children had a temper tantrum over Katrina and Iraq, its payback time for you, and you ain&#8217;t seen nothin&#8217; yet. The first installment of the 35 mpg CAFE requirement begins in 2011 and will phase in until 2020. The Odumboites want to raise it to 40 and Hillary Clinton even talked about 55 mpg (!). Even ****head McCain wants to give away our money for battery powered cars and has signed on to Global Warming arguments.</p>
<p>In another article, there is talk of the Charger SE losing about 12 HP out of its already underpowered 190HP engine.</p>
<p>Get ready, grab your ankles because you are in for a swift kick in the ass.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: beatusmongous</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408592</link>
		<dc:creator>beatusmongous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408592</guid>
		<description>2004 Nissan Quest SL.  I didn&#039;t get the SE with the skylights and the 5-speed because it was just too pricey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2004 Nissan Quest SL.  I didn&#8217;t get the SE with the skylights and the 5-speed because it was just too pricey.</p>
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		<title>By: jayjc08</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408589</link>
		<dc:creator>jayjc08</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408589</guid>
		<description>02WRXPSM- I don&#039;t think I&#039;d want a mini-van with that much power per liter... ANd you can take those engines any day, I&#039;d much rather have a large engine that gets that amount of horsepower, will most likely last a lot longer.

This is about the last of the large American V-6&#039;s!

beatus- What mini-van do you drive? I remember you mentioning a Nissan I believe...

Best looking mini-van out there, not that I&#039;d call any of them good looking...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>02WRXPSM- I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d want a mini-van with that much power per liter&#8230; ANd you can take those engines any day, I&#8217;d much rather have a large engine that gets that amount of horsepower, will most likely last a lot longer.</p>
<p>This is about the last of the large American V-6&#8217;s!</p>
<p>beatus- What mini-van do you drive? I remember you mentioning a Nissan I believe&#8230;</p>
<p>Best looking mini-van out there, not that I&#8217;d call any of them good looking&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: beatusmongous</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408586</link>
		<dc:creator>beatusmongous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408586</guid>
		<description>My minivan has a 3.5L V6 with 240 HP.  I get as low as 15 mpg and as high as 18 mpg in town, and 24 to 27 on the highway.  My minivan also weighs 4,400 lbs, and it is longer, taller and wider than the Dodge minivans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My minivan has a 3.5L V6 with 240 HP.  I get as low as 15 mpg and as high as 18 mpg in town, and 24 to 27 on the highway.  My minivan also weighs 4,400 lbs, and it is longer, taller and wider than the Dodge minivans.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: frost</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408561</link>
		<dc:creator>frost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408561</guid>
		<description>10% MPG is better then nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>10% MPG is better then nothing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ktulu</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408544</link>
		<dc:creator>ktulu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408544</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t beleive these R best in class MPG
4.3 is a big 6</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t beleive these R best in class MPG<br />
4.3 is a big 6</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: 02WRXPSM</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408533</link>
		<dc:creator>02WRXPSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408533</guid>
		<description>Ahem... engines with 2.0l and less have been at the 200+ hp mark for ages, even without turbocharging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahem&#8230; engines with 2.0l and less have been at the 200+ hp mark for ages, even without turbocharging.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MercMark</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408508</link>
		<dc:creator>MercMark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408508</guid>
		<description>Put on some flame stickers and it will go faster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Put on some flame stickers and it will go faster.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RaineMan</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408498</link>
		<dc:creator>RaineMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408498</guid>
		<description>4L is a big 6... and it&#039;s gonna drink a lot of gas no matter which way you tweak it. Of course maybe if the minivans were a little lighter and a bit more aerodynamic they would gain a few more MPG. But hey... apparently square is back in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4L is a big 6&#8230; and it&#8217;s gonna drink a lot of gas no matter which way you tweak it. Of course maybe if the minivans were a little lighter and a bit more aerodynamic they would gain a few more MPG. But hey&#8230; apparently square is back in.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A4</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408495</link>
		<dc:creator>A4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408495</guid>
		<description>thats pretty good actually.... look at a mustang V6</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thats pretty good actually&#8230;. look at a mustang V6</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: swamp donkey</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408493</link>
		<dc:creator>swamp donkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408493</guid>
		<description>4L V6 and only 250hp; thats brutal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4L V6 and only 250hp; thats brutal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: johnnycanuck</title>
		<link>http://www.leftlanenews.com/chrysler-tweaks-vans-for-8-percent-fuel-economy-gain.html/comment-page-1#comment-408490</link>
		<dc:creator>johnnycanuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=9350#comment-408490</guid>
		<description>If you open the hood and find &#039;lean burn&#039; on the engine cover we&#039;re in a lot of trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you open the hood and find &#8216;lean burn&#8217; on the engine cover we&#8217;re in a lot of trouble.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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