Maybe they shouldn’t try driving it like a Porsche…

But it will be interesting to see what comes of this contention. Fanboys, beware…

I think Porsche just can’t stand to be shown up by Nissan

Japs are inherently sneaky… They’ll do anything to win.

7:54? I mean, I suppose it’s possible that Nissan could have exaggerated a LITTLE, but almost by half a minute? That doesn’t really seem likely either.

I think the lap times are irrelevant. Most people that buy these cars will never take them to the track and If they do they will not be able to drive them like the factory drivers do. Dont buy a car just because it can lap a racetrack you will never drive on a few ticks faster then some other car you will never have. Same with 0-60 times. Im starting to like cars that have more then just performance but some essence or style.

good for porsche for trying to verify this. however, i’d hope they’re NOT simply satisfied that their “range-topping models are at least as fast,” considering the cost of those models are more than double that of the GT-R.

If I remember correctly, the GT-R has 480bhp. The 505bhp Z06 got a lap time of about 7:44. I know for a fact that the Nissan is heavier than the Chevy, so a 7:54 time does not seem unreasonable.

Does anyone know if there is a standard weight for the drivers at Nurburgring? Or some type of calculation for compensating for weight differences? Again, I know little about cars and far less about racing them. Just a thought.

Well, a heavy guy would have a harder time with G-forces than a light guy, and racing is good exercise, so I doubt the racers are all that different in “weight class”.

Well this is obvious. The American spec GT-R was equipped with low rolling resistance tires and the transmission from a Sentra to boost those mileage numbers.

im not surprised at all, infact im surprised a third party hasnt already gone and tried themselves, that time they (nissan) announced seemed seemed a little to quick for the specs of that car… and where is the spec-v? maybe they are having trouble justifying the price hike…. at least Chevy gave us 620hp for the 100000 price tag

+1 for porsche for stepping up
-1 for nissan for being… i dunno nissan

and aw what the hell +1 for chevy

“Will Porsche contest the Corvette ZR1’s lap time of 7:26 next? Somehow we doubt it — with 620 horsepower, this number is definitely less shocking.”

Didn’t LLN post a link with video footage of the ZR1’s lap time from an on board camera a couple months back? I find it hard to believe Nissan would claim such an awesome lap time without documentation–actually I don’t.

i’d assume nissan has plans to race the GT-R, no? if the “stock” car is beating “range-topping” porsches at nurburgring, i’d imagine nissan wouldn’t have much trouble climbing to the top of the GT class in le mans. of course, this is only an assumption based on nissan’s reported lap time.

“Will Porsche contest the Corvette ZR1’s lap time of 7:26 next? ”

I would say yes. It’s been documented that the GT-R has near 500hp so if Porsche doubted Nissan claim, I would guess they might still want to verify the Corvette claims. You know their Pride and all. I believe LLN and some other sites had shown the video of Nissan running the Ring in the time claimed so I wonder what Porsche did to get the lower number or what did Nissan do to get the higher one . Hmmm?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLY SNAPPP

I’d believe Porsche’s claim a bit more if they were to test the ZR1 and are able to get close to its time as well.

As it stands right now, all this proves is that they can drive their Porsches better than they can drive Nissans. Throw in another known quantity from a 3rd party and then their claims will start to hold more water.

It’s not whether or not the GT-R time was real, but whether or not the GT-R run was done stock. Porsche went and bought a stock GT-R and ran the ‘ring with it, and got 7:54. Porsche claims the time Nissan posted was not done with a stock GT-R, but one with racing slicks (and maybe other advantages). They aren’t claiming the run wasn’t true (we’ve seen the video), but that the run wasn’t done with stock specs, hence why the car was so fast.

Perhaps that’s the time Nissan engineers got racing the GT-R on the Nurburgring playing GT4. Hehe…

I doubt Porsche will be able to claim the same exaggeration for the ZR1. That was filmed. Besides, the ZR1 is lighter and more powerful.

I wouldn’t be that hard for someone to speed up video footage and put a timer at the bottom. Speeding up a video 5% or so would be very hard to see or hear the difference over a 7-8 min video.

sore losers, get over it porsche

I agree with a few of the posters above. Porsche just can’t stand Nissan is a faster car. Period.

Why I’m not surprised?…Japs, japs, japs…

“I need more warp speed, Scotty!”
“I just can’t do it, Captain. I DON’T HAVE THE POWER!”
DrFill

You’re right, Monte, but if anyone could tell, it would be me…

Honestly, the video doesn’t seem sped up in any way. I also watched the ZR1 vs. the GT-R comparison video, and it looks pretty normal, too. The time seems pretty real. However, since the video is done on the inside of the car, there’s no way of telling whether or not the suspension was tricked and what kind of tires the car had. I think surmising that the tires were slicks and the car was not stock is probably a safer bet than putting money down on a sped-up video.

Porsche is really circumcising a flee here. This is not a scientific study. What if Nissan’s driver was BETTER driver then Porsche’s ace? Is it possible? It is Audi who rules LeMans with their diesel and Peugeot is the second with their diesel and Porsche is not in the picture.

who cares buy a ZR1, the GT-R is sexy but past that it seems to be a pretty boring drive. Kind of like a 911 turbo…

tHEY R all fast enuff 4 me

I refrained from saying anything but it seems a more level headed lot than usual.

+ for NISSAN = Porsche should probably let the car just do its thing like NISSAN designed it to do. THE GT-R35 was designed to render the driver a MINOR variable in the car’s overall ability. Let it run and it should not be such a dog. Taking that approach the GT-R35 should do better.

- for NISSAN = the LAWS of physics are not easy to get around. Less power more weight. Even the best drive train this side of the MACH 5 can’t make up for that. YouTube vids of the GT-R35 getting schooled by other sports cars are starting to show the “standard” GT-R35 is NOT all that. If actual owners of lot stock GT-R35s start showing the car to be less than advertised, then there will be a problem NISSAN will have to explain.

- for NISSAN = The GT-R35 specs for the car used for Nurburgring testing have not yet been disclosed publicly after the production car has officially shipped. This continues the unhelpful debate and NISSAN stands to look very foolish, even deceitful, if PORSCHE is proven right that the GT-R35 was not production stock posting its numbers.

+ for NISSAN = The easy out is to just say “They were test prototypes optimized and equipped beyond what we are willing to put into production. We wanted to see just how good a car we could build. ” To say that would invalidate their claimed numbers at Nurburgring but would end the debate.

+ for PORSCHE = PORSCHE knows their stuff much better than NISSAN, though they may not know the GT-R35 that well. This does not mean that Porsche gets a free pass. It means that PORSCHE needs to think hard about having almost all their street cred leveled on just one line of car. AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT CANNIBALIZE AUDI!!!!

- for PORSCHE = Like NISSAN they are relying on numbers without meaningful footage that the car is not as fast as claimed. A tough call. But it does raise more doubt as to NISSAN’s claims.

+ for PORSCHE = The 911 is still a better all-around racing and sports car than the GT-R35. Despite the numbers, the GT-R35 is still vulnerable to having to put it all together for a real race, something that has not happened in real life yet (The Car is in GT5 on PS3). Test runs and comparisons do not count. Like a Karate student who is expert at the moves but can’t put them together to win a match or fight.

- for both = The AUDI R8 deftly puts down a better all-around performance. It’s better than the 911 and the GT-R35 in total performance. The R8 is not invincible but it is good enough and better enough at everything that both would lose to it in a race. That and it looks better than both, splits the cost difference nicely ($110K is not bad), and I just like saying “AUDI”. I could go for the R8-GT3 though.

*These statements should be taken as opinions only and not outright statements of fact or repudiation of the considerations of others.

Mmm… Audi R8… In my opinion, that is the sexiest car in the world.

I could DEFINITELY go for one of those…

…but I think my wife is going to first.

Thanks, Blakkarr…

.

There still is that one video, though, that Edmunds does where the R8 is trying to keep up with the GT-R in a long turn, and the R8 spins out. It’s priceless. Yet, the R8 still looks good spinning out.

I WAS WAITING ALL DAY FOR THIS TO COME ON LLN….

Thank you Porsche. There’s no way a stock GT-R ran that time and half of us on here were arguing that but NOOOOOOO the GTR is God’s greatest gift to earth….. Nissan hyped up the GTR soo bad it wasn’t even funny. First they underrated it. Second, I’m sure they performed plenty of little suspension tweaks that wasn’t production, same with the tires, they never revealed what kind of tires they were using. That GTR wasn’t production!

And also notice on all the car mag reviews the GTR isn’t as fast on the 1/4 and straight line acceleration as it boasted?

F*ckin japs went for Pearl Harbor round 2 on our asses… And this time they failed.

And I’m also still not completely surprised by half the people’s reactions on here…. Where’s IMPULSIVE? That guy still on here. I’m sure if he saw this he’d say that it’s impossible…. HA!

I knew it all along. There is absolutely no way that 7:29 can be achieved with a stock GT-R. I know their all wheel drive system is all tricked out but come on….. 7:29.. give me a break. Talk about doing whatever it takes to sell your car.

Ah, yes.
Sunset washes over another racist…….I mean racy……. day of LLN posts……..
Just makes you feel all good inside.
Nice.
DrFill

DrFill, lol my comment came across as a little heated… No?

The GTR is a great performing car, I’m not saying that it isn’t.

But it royally p*sses me off that Nissan claimed all this with a “production” GTR and they got caught up in a lie. Now I’m not doubting that the GTR did get those times, they probably did with racing slicks, and suspension tweaks, and if the Spec V ever comes out it’ll post those lap times if not better.

But don’t go and over rate your product, if it’s that good then it’s performance will prove itself. Something that Nissan deceptively tried pulling on us.

Oh and note to LLN…. You can’t even get the ZR1’s HP correct it’s 638hp

My post is way too logical to make sense, but here goes.
I have no reason to doubt Nissan’s claims.
The mags don’t seem eager to discredit it either.
I say the Nissan is one of the fastest cars in the world.
Also it might be the ugliest.
Fast as stink. Ugly as $h!t
I wouldn’t be caught dead in one.

Dig the style of the ZR-1. I’m sure it is a babe-magnet!

I lament the rumored demise of the Lexus LF-A, which I’ve seen on the show circuit, and feeds both cars a couple of huge Milk-Bones!

The LF-A sounds AWESOME on YouTube, and I need a cigarette after seeing one in person.

Lexus would sell 3000 LF-As at $150k. It would sell out, based on the value of the Lexus name, and the looks alone.

Rev the engine, and a bidding war would break out that would a Tier 1 commercial bank blush!

Sex sells. And I’m still a customer.

DrFill

Although I was a bit skeptical when Nissan first released it’s Nordschleife times, and although I am a Porsche driver myself, I admit to hearing of GTRs besting Turbos on several occasions. I suppose we won’t really know until we see a third party confirmation, but I thought I would provide a little insight.
.
On episode 5 of the current series of Fifth Gear, Bruno Senna–nephew to the late, great Ayrton– compares wet lap times between a stock Turbo and a stock GTR. At the beginning, he anticipates that the Porsche will be the faster of the two, but the results return the following times on the show’s own circuit:
.
Turbo - 1:45.33
GTR - 1:45.08
.
Again, certainly not definitive, but an interesting factoid to add to the above fray.

well since i haven’t seen it posted yet- here is the vid of the ZR1 and the GTR running the ring- of course this is just for information purposes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ-CNFpPCnk

Since when did Japanese car makers tell the truth? Now Porsche’s bitten them back in the ass…

Porsche use a fat driver…that’s why!

How does the Nazi-mobile explain it’s turbo and GT3 getting spanked by EVERY major automotive rag in the world.

the nurburgnurering ring…… the N ring has that long straight at the end it is better for top speed friendly cars which i have the feeling the gtr is not that might explain the results and at the end of the day they are all beat by an older dodge viper you can buy at a soon to be tata viper dealership

yeah i agree with the rest of ya, the R8 is top of the list.

I don’t understand why anyone would question a 7:29 time around “the ring” by a GT-R. Why just two weeks ago, while visiting in Germany, I saw Joe Isuzu run the Nurburgring in a GT-R in 7 minutes flat.

Andy, if anything, Nissan actually has UNDERrated the horsepower of the GT-R by about 40hp. C&D put them on dynoes and found them to put out around 415 peak hp at the wheels, and since they are all wheel drives, 20% of that hp is expected to be lost.

Your point about the time though is still valid

Magneticred, the only car that I can think of that will do the Nurburgring in 7 min flat is an Ariel Atom or Caterham 7 fitted with the Veyron’s W16 & AWD system.

Sprockkets, yes, I would expect a 3.8L V6 to have more power than a 3.6L boxer 6, Car & Driver may be right…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqBBL7WYWIs
I also doubted the time they claimed until Top Gear just reinforced the fact that the GTR is as fast as a ferrari scuderia and Lambo LP640. I thought on that track it would be with the 911 turbo but it blew it away. I was shocked. I highly doubt that Top Gear will use racing tires on their track. Let me know what yourll think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBZ5i15yVU8

Thank you bmwboy for posting these videos, what porsche needs more proof than these videos ?
I totally agree with the past comments too, although I love porsche but they just cant stand that they got owned by the GODZILLA =D

That GTR is ugly as sin. I don’t know why they couldn’t make the styling a little more elegant. Stupid gooks.

f***ing racists. I hope miyagi comes roudn to your house and waxes on and off your mothers.

The japs are known for beinig deceptive. This is no surprise.

Americans would rather drive a Corvette anyways, this Nissan is a POS and everyone knows it. Just the japs trying to decieve yet again.

7:54 does seem to be a correct time for the GT-R, based on its hardware and power-to-weight ratio. The C5 Z06 ran a 7:56 in 2003, and had a similar power-to-weight ratio (only 405hp, but 750 lbs. lighter), and similar braking and handling numbers.

The problem with these Nurburgring manufacturer claims is there is no sanctioning body to oversee, document, and test the cars and the times. Particularly with a turbocharged car, it is very easy for the manufacturer to crank the boost up for their publicity run, and no one would ever know. This GT-R that Nissan ran on the Nurburgring could have easily been running 600hp, and nobody would know it except the Nissan engineers and driver.

In spite of Porsche’s accusations (which may be true), it doesn’t change the fact that the GT-R is a seriously fast car, and does offer similar if not better performance than some of Porsche’s best hardware, for much less coin. Maybe the two companies can trade lies: Nissan can explain how their GT-R really got that time, and Porsche can explain why they charge too much for the performance their cars offer.

^This was the best comment on here yet.

I personally have gotten a real kick out of checking Nurburgring lap times, and I think it’s obvious that they have become a serioius marketing tool. There NEEDS to be a governing body overseeing this

Too bad it’s still a Nissan. And even though it may be as problem ridden as a Porcshe, and it probably isn’t as expensive to fix, the problems would be too numerous for anyone to want to deal with. Do yourselves a favor and buy a Vette which will run for hundreds of thousands of miles without needing anything other than B/T/O. I see it all the time, just like I see Nissans being carted off on tow trucks all the time (same with Porsches)

I guess you never need to change an air filter in a Corvette…

…or transmission fluid…

…or coolant…

…or wiper blades…

…or light bulbs…

Tool or fake? I vote fake. Anyone else?

Fianlly the truth, jesus christ several mags have questioned the numbers and they dont add up to anyone. GTR 0-150 takes 9 seconds longer then in a Z06. Brake numbers are near identical. GT-R is only barely faster on tracks that are tight and have no long straights thanks to AWD.

Normal wear and tear items beatus. Corvettes are built to last. The GT-R and all Porsches are not

As much as I’d like to just blindly believe Porsche’s claim,they are after all one of Europes greatest car manufacturers, they can hardly claim that they are unbiased. Some investigation by a third party would be much appreciated.

the GTR has officially been castrated. Long live the ZO6

O.K. look “ALMOST” all cars do come restricted from the manufacture. Heck, CEC wheels will tune your $280,000.00 Ferrari Scuderia for $50K!!!… I spent $46K on my Shelby, and put in to it about $12K in parts so that I can get the most out of it. I know I can hold my own with some of the best, just that MONEY is not some thing I have in abundance, or eels I’ll be racing full time. Nissan probably had a driver that was 5ft.3″ and came in at 115lbs. and the car was running on fumes and on it’s 20th lap, or not… the truth is that only 18% of all performance car play hard on the track, and even so only about 75% of the cars that do get track time get some type of tuning, a K&N filter, a chip or ECU update, tires, wheels or bigger, The other 25% is some Joe that paid up the nose for a performance car and want’s to see “what the car can do”, and it just maybe his first track day… Now, I’ve been lucky enough to have driven some badas and very expensive exotics and the main than I learn from years of racing on the track is, and listen to me now, YOU CAN SPEND ALL THE MONEY YOU WANT ON A PERFORMANCE CAR, BUT IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW DRIVE IT….we will see your car on Wreck Exotics wed-site…So what ever it is, GTR vs. GT2 vs. Z06, it doesn’t matter, the car is only as good as the driver. Unless the “STIG” drives all 3 cars on the same day and on the same track, other wise it come down to brand loyalty…….

The Stig did drive this car around a track and it was alot faster than the 911 turbo and ZO6. Check this video out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqBBL7WYWIs

larism, that’s because it’s not true.

DAMM…… I guess it’s settled, Nissan wins, so it come down to brand loyalty…….

But like I seed, YOU CAN SPEND ALL THE MONEY YOU WANT ON A PERFORMANCE CAR, BUT IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW DRIVE IT….we will see your car on Wreck Exotics wed-site…

Fortunately, you don’t need a brain to drive a GT-R
Aito, AWD, launch control
Idiot-proof!
Sweet!
DrFill

well the should prove it then. for the world to see.

I agree, there’s way in hell a GT-R could outpace a GT2, let alone a Turbo

According to the Australian press release for the GT-R released today, which is set to go on sale here in April next year, the 7:28 Nurburgring lap time was set by “a standard specification model, fitted with standard Japanese market tyres”.
Therefore, if Porsche were to truly discredit Nissan’s claims, they would need to test a stock Japanese GT-R!

A few things need to be said about this whole crazy controversy:
-Porsche took a BRAND NEW car from a US dealership to do the test. Now it’s a known fact that a brand new car not only should be broken in correctly (despite the ludicrous claims of so many dealerships), but also that a car will show its best performances after at the very least a few thousand miles, if not 10s of thousands.

-There’s no way for us to know what Nissan did, but the truth is, flashing the ECU before the race to increase the boost on the turbos could have boosted power by nearly 100hp since it seems this car has plenty of power in reserve. Or they could have used slicks or whatever, point is, we have no proof.

-It’s nearly impossible to obtain the same track time on a track as complex and long as the Ring, ****, try it in GT or Forza, and now think about how much harder it would be in real life with your safety on the balance. However, the discrepancy offered by Porsche is so large that this can only be a factor but not the whole.

I think we’ll never know, unless Nissan feels compelled to do it again in front of judges and allows them to detail the car after. But regardless, Porsche offers something that Nissan doesn’t. The attention to details, the beauty and thoroughness of their engineering and the finish are things that are not matched by Nissan. However, when it comes to the price tag, I’d go for the GTR…

That would mean that the GT-R is even slower than the PDK-equipped 911 Carrera S, which posted a Nurburgring lap time of 7:50. I smell something fishy here on both sides…
Who cares anyway, the PDK-equipped, direct-injected 911 Turbo is going to eat the GT-R for breakfast; same with the upcoming PDK DI GT2 killing the V-Spec.

Would Porsche like some cheese to go with that whine?
DrFill

A question I can’t believe no one has asked is: What exactly qualifies the car as stock? The GT-R has quite a number of electronically adjustable components. I’d be willing to bet money that these components don’t roll off the dealership lot with the most aggressive options selected. It would be really easy to buy a GT-R and just leave the suspension, traction control, gear changes in standard or comfort mode or whatever the default is and probably pad out the lap times quite significantly.

I’m not saying that Porsche did this, just that they could.

We have a predicament. the nissan they might have used may have had 500 hp, as the engine are handbuilt, so they put out different amounts of HP. the lap time seems credible and valid. an i think porsche dont want to be beaten by a Normal car

I don’t see what all the fuss is about, nearly every magazine in the world has proven that the GT-R is faster than the 911 turbo around nearly a dozen different tracks, that it’s faster to 0-60, etc.

To repost what was posted above, we all love Top Gear here and they (like everyone) have a video to prove the GT-R is faster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqBBL7WYWIs

7:28 Nurburgring lap time was set by “a standard specification model, fitted with standard Japanese market tyres”

Maybe Nissan meant a standard spec Japanese model with Japanese market standard run-of-the-mill R compound tires. Also if you’re driving clockwise around the ring in a Jap model with right-side steering, the weight displacement could give them a huge advantage! Yeah… you’d pretty much have to grasp at straws to believe that lap time was pure stock.

Has there been any independent verification of Nissan’s claim of 7:29 Nurburgring lap ? Or has production GTR even come close to it ?

lol nissan has built a miniature of green hell in japan just to make the GT-R.They have even made the same benches and signs.i dont think that nissan is not legit i just think that porsche just doesn’t know how to lose plus they haven’t done the 15000 laps that nissan’s driver did nor the driver was there when they were building it.

Pretty far down the page, but here goes. A couple of years ago, Nissan claimed a sub 8 min time for the then new Skyline GT-R. Turned out that car was far from stock too.

Porshe is just whining because Nissan came up with the car that can out run theirs for a fraction of their price

Last Tuesday we took a 911 GT2 (supplied by Porsche) and a Nissan GT-R (a customer car imported from Japan) and joined the RMA track day at the ‘ring.

Chris Harris was the driver and he drove each car for three laps (one out lap, and two flying laps). Naturally we recorded the laps on video and recorded the lap and section times on Racelogic telemetry.
We are busy finishing the video and will shortly publish the feature story and full results.

This is as close as you’ll probably get to an independent and unbiased validation of their respective ‘claimed’ lap times so it will be interesting to see how this conversation goes after the results are published.

The feature and videos are now published

http://www.drivers-republic.com/features/

If you look at Nissan’s realse of their track time video at Nurburgring, it is clear that they time their lap time at different points on the track. They also use a flying start. At 00:00 (when they started timing) there is metal wall/barrier to the right of the track. But at 7 min 29 (when they stopped timing - the alleged lap time for their “wonder machine” that has been blessed by the power of God to defy all laws of physics and logic), there is no wall to the right of the track. Nissan obviously started and stopped timing their “lap time” at different points on the track - they didn’t time the complete track time by cutting it short.
Nissan cheated, and only boy racers living in ‘the fast and furious’ fantasy world will believe Nissan’s track time of 7:29.

Walter Rohrl’s tested time of 7:50 with the GT-R is probably the best a stock GT-R could ever do on Nurburgring. He is a legend, titled as ‘the rally driver of the century’, and holds respectable titles on Nurburgring, even competing in 24 hour Nurburgring race.
On the same day he tested the GT-R, he did a 7:34 with a GT2 and slightly slower with Turbo. And no, he doesn’t only know how to drive a Porsche, he has plenty of experience driving all sorts of cars - from Audi to Fiat in his Rally careers, as well as all others during his road driving years.