Americans don’t want to be seen in soccer mom’s wagon instead they opt for “crossovers”. Mostly the same thing, they’re just willing to sacrifice gas efficiency for style.

I thought it was a sharp looking vehicle and I like wagons for the utility combined with better handling. Most people like to be in a higher seating position of cross overs and auto makers sell to the mases.

It needed a diesel anyway.

I guess the market for $30k modern day El Caminos is robust by comparison?

I have a lot of respect for Mr. Lutz for what he has accomplished at GM, but I think he needs to get off the rebadged Holden trend for Pontiac now. The G8 sedan is a great first step to reinventing Pontiac and I’m glad they are bringing it over, but I don’t think Pontiac needs a trucklet any more than they need a sport wagon. Enough with the Holden retreads. I would rather see GM use the Zeta platform to create a coupe and convertible for Pontiac with new, distinct, sporty styling (and not a Holden or Chevrolet rebadged clone). I think this would attract more attention to Pontiac and do more to restore Pontiac’s affordable performance image than a rebadged Holden wagon or trucklet.

this would have been a really nice sport wagon too. i’m disappointed that it wont be here now.

wtf, why the hell is pontiac in the truck market all of the sudden? this is just stupid for gm to all of the sudden think pontiac needs trucks crossovers and suv`s.

mazdaman, its not rebadging if both vehicles aren’t sold in the same market. Holden is a cost-effective fit for Pontiac.

Also Lutz why compare to low volume luxo-wagons? How about Subaru Outbacks? Or Dodge Magnums. I see plenty of Magnums around Chicago. I personally love big RWD V8 wagons. Performance AND utility. Best of both worlds. But alas no wagons = must buy trucks.

@mazdaman: Bringing Holdens over shows that Lutz realizes that Pontiac can’t come up with a winner. So he taps into his resources to make it happen.

Which is smart.

They just killed the Magnum, so I guess they are learning from Cerberus.

Beyong a niche market of Spicolis and myopic 70s long hairs Im not sure who they expect to buy the ute. But I know in the land of OZ the utes are very popular and often used as commercial vehicles, delivery and agricultural as well. Maybe thats the hope here as well. Mexicans love El Caminos and this will make a great landscaper/tradesman ride. Seriously I am not a stereotyping dick, well maybe I am but its reality in So-Cal.

I see a helluva lot of Magnums…

SwerveEarly: No you’re not a dick, it’s the truth in CA.

The wagon was the one I was really looking forward to. Personally I love wagons and currently have a C320 wagon that I love and know I will replace with another wagon at some point and thought the G8 might have been it but looks like another german wagon will have to fill the bill.

Somebody need to educate Lutz on Volvo wagon sales in US (my anecdotal observations pegs it at 70-80% of all Volvo sold). Audi wagons, BMW and Benz do well as well. And they don’t sell European versions, they do modify them to meet US requirements.

that car looks pretty nice

Hah, there is no way there is a bigger market for the Ute than the Sport Wagon. The Ute will hit the ground running and for a year and fizzle out.

Why would the wagon be more expensive than the sedan? Nothing like a missed opportunity. One day Americans will realize the benefits of a wagon.

golf4me: my thoughts exactly. Although maybe we just notice them more because they stick out so much from the endless blur of blandmobiles that clog our streets.

Will these cars from australia come loaded with sheep feces? I love the smell of it. Smells better than the leather my car came with. Can you imagine how nice it would be to drive with seats covered in feces of sheep? It would be smooth and remind me so much of my childhood growing up in the van.

No I am a dick.

yeah Golf4me and johnnycanuck, I see a lot of Magnum’s in my area as well. So why did Chrysler/Cerberus kill it?

Also meanpants555, Lutz bringing over Holdens and re-badging them doesn’t show that Lutz realizes that Pontiac can’t come up with a winner
Premise 1: Pontiac re-badges holdens
Premise 2: Because Lutz realizes that Pontiac can’t come up with a winner
—————————————————————————————–
Therefore the Pontiac G8 is a winner? It’s a nice looking car but it hasn’t even hit showrooms yet.

The Pontiac GTO was a re-badged Holden and was that a huge success?

Also I don’t think shoppers of an Audi Wagon, or Mercedes or BMW, or Volvo or Saab are going to cross shop with a Pontiac wagon. The G8 wagon was supposed to compete with the Magnum but Chrlysler killed it so Pontiac didn’t have any use for it.

The only G8 we need is the very capable GT sedan. The wagon would be DOA because of lack of demand, and honestly what the hell does Pontiac need a ute for?

PONTIAC = REAR WHEEL DRIVE PERFORMANCE *CARS*, GM! How many times do we have to remind you?

If you really want to sell a few more Holden utes, badge it as the Chevy El Camino and sell it in VERY limited numbers.

I really dont think the G8 Ute will sell well here. Its not that attractive looking in my opinion. I never thought the El Camino was anything cool either. A lot of people think otherwise though.

@VOLTRONISKI dude keep it up you are pretty funny.

SS4LIFE, you missed one more premise: Lutz can not master a good car for Pontiac (or any other division for that matter). When he was hired he was suppose to lead product management: development of cars public wants to buy. The only thing happened since his arrival: GM brought Opel and Holden models stateside. Granted, it saves development cost, but does GM Lutz for that?

fat fingers, meant to write:but does GM NEED Lutz for that?

“at a dinner with Leftlane” LOOOL!!!

No market for Sportswagon??? Ok, the market may be small, but it has to be bigger than a market for an Ute! Look at how the Subaru Baja folded.

yeah Autonut, I’m not defending Lutz although I think he’s had an interesting history with Chrysler when he pushed for the Viper and that was one of his successes, he also has a really cool car collection and not to mention he owns and flies his own Mig 21. But within GM I think most people either love or hate the guy. The most notable thing I can really give him credit for was the making the Solstice go from concept to production in the 1 or 2 years since it had been designed. Haha I don’t care for the Solstice, I prefer the Sky but I do think that without him GM wouldn’t be having its recovery in design and coming out with products that the people actually want. He’s definitely pushed for that so I do give him some credit.

Well, regarding Solstice and Sky, they began life as Opel and were on roads in Europe well before Lutz joined GM. He actually admitted that he had nothing to do with Solstice design (I doubt he designed anything anytime – he is not an engineer). Lutz takes credit usually for things he had no hand in. If you want to know more about him, read Lee Iaccoca’s memoirs. There is not a kind word for a guy and they worked together for over 20 years. Just imagine Lutz integrity level, if your colleague has nothing good to say about you after 20 years together, but does not mind negative mentioning in the book. Usually people of Iaccoca caliber don’t say anything at all if there is nothing good to mention.

Keep both the wagon and the ute away GM! Just bring back the Trans Am, dammit.

autonut, that is untrue and I think you know it. The Solstice was NOT an Opel first, it was a Pontiac first, Saturn second and then exported as an Opel. Lutz came in after it was designed, but he got it built. I don’t care who gets the credit, it’s a great car.

Thanks for reminding me autonut. I bought Iaccocas book off e-bay last year and never have gotten around to reading it yet. BTW it cost me 10 cents (plus shipping).

The Dodge Magnum. The Magnum sold well before Dodge introduced the Charger. The Charger seems to have cannibalized Magnum sales. Cerebus didn’t kill the Magnum because it’s stupid; it killed the Magnum because it was selling. The Magnums being seen were most likely sold before the Charger was available.

The Commodore VE Sportwagon. There is a picture of it next to boring in the dictionary. It is the answer to a question that nobody asked. Several months ago, Lutz told us that Pontiac would be the sports sedan brand. A G8 sportswagon would not have been a sportswagon. That it will not be imported is a good thing.

The Pontiac G8 Ute. Are you kidding me? Is this a sports sedan? I don’t think so. Chevrolet and GMC sell a large number of light trucks at lower price and higher profit than the G8 Ute. From a business perspective alone, this is a dumb idea. The US car-based pickup market was born in 1959 and died in 1987. In the 1950’s, trucks with passenger car styling elements were the rage. Today, the truck buyer wants his/her truck to look very butch. What is the market for this thing?

This whole business with Holden seems to be something that Lutz is pulling out of his ass. It was his idea to slap a Pontiac grille and badges on the Monaro and import it. It is his idea to try to sell us a $30,000+ Holden Commodore without XM radio or satellite navigation.

That old gentleman needs to be put out to pasture and replaced by someone who gives GM–and particularly Pontiac–a coherent product plan. While you’re at it, hire some auto stylists and send them to Australia. Holden does a great job of engineering, but they can’t style a car worth a lick. Send some Italians or even Americans Down Under to show them how it is done.

The commodore in Australia is a car that I’m not a fan of. Don’t really like ‘Australian’ cars but I do know that the build quality and interiors are light years ahead of what any American car company can come up with. Lutz was amazed at how good our interiors were compared to an American car….back here we were laughing at that statement. So before you slag off commodore, give it ago. No doubt it will **** over any American piece of **** you guys can dish out. And now Cadillac is going to be sold in Australia as a luxury brand??? WTF??? With plastic panels and interior so poor its laughable this will be one of the biggest mistakes GM will ever make. Believing their own hype. What price are they gonna ask for in Australia??? They actually think they are gonna compete with BMW here???? You guys are on huge drugs!

This saddens me. I was hoping a wagon revolution would come to the US, but that’s not going to happen, at least not right away. You don’t see Audi, BMW, and Merc wagons because they cost way to damn much. I see Magnums all the time, as someone above has mentioned, because to a lot of people they look pretty damn cool. The Vibe and Matrix are considered wagons and I see them all over the place. First it was the SUV craze, now it’s the CUV craze. Now that people have gotten used to $3.25 for gas, once it goes up to $4.00+ we’ll see the CUV craze die down and maybe we’ll start seeing more wagons.

It seems strange that he never even concidered Canada as an option to sell the wagon in, as People would opt for a wagon over a Minivan, or SUV, it’s why the Ford kept the Focus wagon for so long as it was totalling 46% of their sales, So for Gm not to even think of that is just plan dumb.

I do not know why US carmakers cede the entire upscale station wagon market to Volvo, Saab and MB. There is a lot of profit to be made in those cars.

I would have looked hard at the Commodore-based wagon as a replacement for our aging Volvo V70. I want another wagon, but not another Volvo, and I dearly want to buy something from an American carmaker, but they pretend this segment doesn’t exist and it’s stupid. (No, I don’t want a Ford Flux or Ford Eurge, etc.; I want a goddamn station wagon.)

I’ve said for a while that the ideal car to me would be a Toyota Avalon station wagon. Unless Caddy launches a CTS wagon, I guess I’ll look at the ‘09 Toyota Venza.

I truly do think it is a shame about the wagon. Wagons are sleek alternatives to crossovers and SUVs, but it seems that they still carry a somewhat uncool image in the U.S. I wish people could really appreciate their utility and sleekness, but unfortunately they usually just don’t. I do believe that the wagon might sell in limited numbers, but Mr. Lutz seems to think that is not enough to approve its arrival in the U.S. I believe it would give Pontiac a chance to sell a car based vehicle with improved utility without diluting its “car” image by offering a crossover or SUV (since the current rumor is that the Torrent replacement will be given to GMC).

As far as the Ute, I think it should be given to Chevy or GMC or it should stay in Australia. This kind of vehicle has a very limited customer base (mostly enthusiasts) and should be offered as a limited edition product at one of the divisions that originally sold trucklets (I think it would improve this product’s sales performance with people who fondly remember vintage El Caminos or Caballeros). Pontiac was never one of those divisions and shouldn’t be now. If Mr. Lutz wants to use Holden as a source for U.S. products, that’s fine. I just wish he wouldn’t use this arrangement to stuff inappropriate products into Pontiac’s lineup. The G8 sedan (and the wagon to a lesser extent) fits Pontiac’s affordable performance “car” image, I don’t think the Ute fits this image.

I would love to see the Zeta platform utilized to create a rear wheel drive coupe and convertible for Pontiac. GM is giving the Camaro back to Chevy. Why can’t GM give its affordable performance car division this kind of brand appropriate product in the form of a new generation Firebire or GTO (although I would want to see it receive its own unique design; not a Camaro with Pontiac badging)? I think the recent GTO’s failure in the U.S. was brought about by inferior, lackluster styling (people were not getting anything that looked special for the price). If a new version was executed properly, I think it would be a successful, attention generating vehicle for Pontiac.

I do wish GM would develop a concrete product strategy for Pontiac and stick to it. It appears as though they are just throwing products at Pontiac to see what will stick. This kind of hit and miss product planning will never create a clear, defining vision of Pontiac with the buying public. I thought giving Pontiac, GMC, and Buick distinct, focused brand images (and corresponding products) was the reason for their consolidation into one dealer network?

As far as rebadging, I always thought that when you took one division’s product and slapped a different division’s badge on the product, it was considered rebadging (even if the products are not offered in the same area). To me, the Pontiac G8 and the Middle Eastern Chevy Lumina are rebadged Holden Commodores, although they are not sold in the same part of the world.

With the deletion of the Magnum from the Dodge line-up, I think GM will sell a good number of these. The G8 could be the ressurection of Pontiac.

No, GTO, you don’t understand… they’re NOT DOING the wagon.

Yeah and because Dodge killed the Magnum for whatever reason, Unless you know how to read between the lines this is why GM is cancelling the G8 Wagon. That was meant to be its main competitor and because the Magnum was selling because it was an American V8 Hemi powered wagon, not meant to compete with the European wagons GM wanted to jump on the bandwagon and bring the Holden Wagon to make sales. Well if backfired for GM, although I don’t like wagons but this looks nice. I think they still should bring it.

The Commodore will be enough, thanks