May2
Nissan just announced that its mighty GT-R just lapped the Nürburgring in 7 minutes 29 seconds, but the boys over at Chevrolet aren’t about to hand over the production-car track record. Corvette Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter says that a production version of the ZR1 will be able to beat the GT-R’s impressive mark.
Up until now, only pre-production ZR1s have been lapping the Nürburgring. But with Chevrolet’s 638 horsepower, 205 mph sports car now ready for production, Corvette engineers feel that the supercar from Detroit will have no trouble eclipsing the GT-R’s time.
Juechter even told Edmunds that the ZR1 should be able to lap the track in “seven minutes, twenty-something seconds.”
But even if the ‘Vette can best 7 minutes 29 seconds, it still has to contend with the higher-performance GT-R V-Spec.
He’ll certainly be stirring up some controversy with that claim. I hope it does, I hope it does better than the specV also, but I obviously have my doubts. The AWD is what’s going to help out the GTR ultimately. I’m sure these are 2 awesome cars in their own right, with 2 completely different driving characteristics. It’ll come down to preference really, and maybe cash?
bah. so they have 200 more horsepower. that doesn’t make the GT-R’s results any less spectacular. typical american arrogance.
No one outside the US buys the Corvette so it is not relevant in todays world
stop hatin’ on the Vette. it seems more like people are less willing to see the Vette eat some GT-R time like M&Ms. i’m all about the Blue Devil and i can’t wait to see it in black and white and whatever colors are indicative of internet blogs.
let the $hit talkin begin
I’ll admit that I don’t like anything about the GTR but Nissan did a great job and it is impressive nonetheless.
I don’t think the Vette will have too much trouble beating it, it has everything going for it that it needs to take the record.
How is this typical US arrogance? The Ring record is a world competition between every major car market. To have the bragging rights to that record means everything to the car you’ve developed. What is Chevy being arrogant about exactly? Obviously they’re the ones that have seen it in testing and know what it’s capable of. At this point when Chevy says a Corvette will do something you can bet your ass it will do it and probably better than expected.
Right now, the ZR1 has no official time at the ‘Ring, correct? So the chief engineer has made a statement … now he has to back up his statement or eat crow. Simple as that.
A little rivalry goes a long way for the consumer … =)
If i’m correct, the Z06, a car already with more horsepower and a lighter weight than the GT-R couldn’t match the time at the ‘Ring. Now, if the Z06 were to take the time, I’d be more impressed.
Tadge just did a chat on GMnext.com this week where he talked about the latest news on the ZR1 and about the making of the car. You can read the transcript here: http://www.gmnext.com/Details/LiveChat.aspx?id=c047aab4-ca38-4cf0-81c2-788d24d0a4f9
Who are they going to put behind the wheel when they take their shot, that’s what I want to know. It’s not just the car…
auto.observer is right, the Z06 is lighter and more powerful; who would have thought the ‘GT-R conquer’ would come from America.
However, the V-spec should mop them all up and be the last hurrah for all these ‘Ring time junkies. Cars are about to get less powerful.
Also, man I can’t shut up, a great ‘Ring time doesn’t mean that that car is the best. So many other things make a great car.
Hey, more notoriety will come of all cars in this category so all this is a good thing.
what i meant was that the Z06 has more similar specs to the GT-R but can’t hold its own on the ‘Ring against it. If the GM engineers were so good, why couldn’t they get the same time out of the Z06 instead of using the ZR1, a car with 200 more (unnecessary) horses to try and beat the time?
I predict that the ZR1 will take the GT-R.
But the Spec-V will take the ‘Vette.
Nissan has a nice hold card, just in case of something like this.
It’s ugly as hell, inside and out, but Porsches aren’t beauty queens either.
DrFill
There has never been a real case of two cars of roughly equal capacity every matching up well when one is AWD and the other is not.
There are very few events in the world in which AWD and RWD cars compete head long. The advantages almost always favor the AWD. The GT-R has one of the most fully decked out systems to date. It is an up-hill fight no matter what car it is.
That said, the C6 CORVETTE Z06 and the ZR-1 are not necessarily outclassed, but rather under appreciated. I have often used the “Sword vs. Chainsaw” analogy. It takes far more skill to the cut a tree down with a sword than it does with a chainsaw.
To date, I have seen no indication that a real “sword master” has taken the CORVETTE Z06 or ZR-1 out for a real slashing. Just testing and calibration.
In the end, I don’t see the CORVETTEs ever actually beating the GT-R. They are not severe enough. They will not have the right drivers for the task.
As for this generation of sports cars being “the last hurrah”, not really. They will take a hit, maybe, and then ramp back up as technology can be adapted to the new requirements.
While I’m sure the C7 is too far down the production line to make any massive changes, I would not be surprised if the a “C8″ was less powerful but weighted in like a Mosler MT900, that is only 900kg or 1980lbs, with a much more formula or Indy car like suspension that can go from street cruiser, the ALMS race ready at a push of a button, an engine the emphasizes speed over raw power (extremely high redline), and a more thorough body and aero design, to name a few points.
I cant believe everyones hating on the ZR1. Were you all saying oh those silly Japanese cant beat the Porsche turbo time with the GTR? And seriously do you think the ZR1sand the supercharged LS9s purpose is to be the fastest car around the ring or to test the car under track conditions? So assuming im using number auot.observers logic the Camaro is going a for record time and possibly has similar specs to a GTR so it should logically be similar in performance.
i think the chevy guys should have a GT-R on hand when they do the test just like nissan had 911 turbos. So they can have the same (pref independent from chevy) driver drive both cars.
Or they should put a NASCAR driver in it. He’s gonna be like how do i turn right.
Based on dynos, I’m guessing the GTR and Vette ZR1 crank HP doesn’t differ by much.
480 horsepower < 638 horsepower Do you see the difference?
It would make more sense to put a driver with Formula and/or Indy car experience in the ZR-1. Many NASCAR drivers drive nearly all year in differing racing classes and series. So it would not surprise me to see a name I’ve seen in INDY/CART or NASCAR.
Indy, by the way, needs to use those infield road courses a lot more.
Vincenzo,
You haven’t been reading the specs on either car. That said if any car is on a shorter end on a Dyno, its the GT-R “Standard” or “V Spec”.
AWD is much more complex and has far more mechanical drag that 2WD. Reading “at Wheel” power, which is hard with any AWD, the CORVETTE will always read a much lower power loss than the GT-R.
Efficiency Advantage: 2WD always.
What are the majority of racecars? They’re RWD… end of debate. AWD doesn’t mean ultimate racecar or track car, it has a lot of downfalls.
Or they should put a NASCAR driver in it. He’s gonna be like how do i turn right.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That’s hilarious,even Indy cars are some how boring in the States. They have the capibility to do Formula 1 moves but most of the races are in a circle. Uh?
Here’s a novel idea… how about we actually see what time the ZR1 posts around the ring before we start talking **** on it.
An entirely different approach, I know… but a good one nonetheless.
I’m not saying that it necessarily will, but I’m looking forward to whatever kind of limp-wristed excuses will be made if the ZR1 actually beats the little Nissan.
^ I agree with AMGoff … why talk smack (GT-R lovers or ZR1 lovers) until there’s an official track time posted by the ZR1? Why do all the fanboys (from either side) feel the need to post? Either put up or shut up … simple as that.
GT-R has set a standard (7:29). GM engineer says the ZR1 can go faster (trash talk). I say, “BRING IT” You’d better be able to walk the walk if you talk the talk. If not, you make all the domestic fanboys look like the retard of the class. If you do, then you get all the GT-R fanboys say, “Wait until the V-spec comes out.” This will go on and on …
Please. Grow up. Rivalries are good — keeps the competition up and forces manufacturers to give more to the consumer for less. (And it allows LLN to gain ad money from more web ‘hits’ … LOL)
I don’t really understand how what you’re saying refutes my statement, Blakkarr. I’m familiar with drivetrain losses.
The GTR is dynoing fairly close to its rated output at the crank. Due to the AWD system resulting in higher drivetrain losses, the crank HP must be quite a bit higher than the rated HP.
So, I’m saying that the GTR may not be as much of the horsepower underdog as it seems.
Yea, there’s always a bigger fish. Z06 set the bar, GTR came and totally eclipsed it, ZR1 hopes to best it by a couple of secs, but will cost twice as much. All in all, it’s just a Chevy, just like the GTR is still a just a 70,000 2+2. The rumored prices for the ZR1 and V Spec are totally ridiculous IMO. It’s not saying much that a 100,000+ budget supercar can beat a 70,000 2+2 GT. You’d be better off buying the Z06 saving your money for mods.
I personally like the form of the Corvette and the fact that it comes in 6mt. But somehow I still find myself leaning towards the GTR. It may possibly be because of brand image. They both have their flaws tho, which is why neither are on my top most wanted list.
Also the GTR seems to be more exclusive. While you can argue the ZR-1 is limited, you can look down a long street and see that Sue, John, Arthur, Kevin and Martha also have some form of the C6, so it doesn’t really feel exclusive anymore.
Let’s see the real numbers shall we?
ooh so the americans defend themselves and now we are arrogant? just because europes precious porsche is getting shat all over by both of them, and the japanese contender has been voted unanimously less exciting to drive, doesnt mean we are arrogant after a slew of articles having people suck the GT-Rs proverbial dick just because its technology gets it around a track fast. Are you going to enter a race class with a GT-R if you buy one? Hell no you arent. Yes it is impressive. Yes i have been very excited for the GT-R to come here, and i love it more than most cars, and on paper i love it more than the ZR1, but now that GM defends itself, it is “typical american arrogance”. Suck a fat one just cause you think youre better than the rest of the world. Yeah i drive a german car and i always will stick with a VW product. Call me stupid for it, i like what they offer, as long as Hanz and Franz can fix it under warranty. I dont suck GM’s dick, i certainly am not to avid a ford fan, and i give respect where it is deserved - and the ZR1 has been proven multiple times that it deserves it, before it has even fully hit the market yet. So no, it is not “typical american arrogance”, and just because our engineers have the balls to come out and defend themselves while a bunch of tech savvy, bluetooth earpiece wearing ****s drool over the GT-R, gives you no right to brush off the ZR1. Especially when you havent seen the time around the track yet.
oh and LaCaLover, nobody in the US bought the R34 and older GT-R in America, and frankly if they were available i doubt very many would have sold - probably at NSX numbers, but as i recall it had a pretty firm fanbase and respect on our shores. The corvette has gained a huge amount of respect, planting its feet with the C5 and now with the C6, it is a true “world-beater”. And I do have to say, its styling is certainly as far from “arrogant” as you can get for a Coupe with 400 and up horsepower.
Truthfully the GT-R costs more that than the ZR-1 lists but conversely the ZR-1 costs way more the the GT-R both because of speculation by collectors and dealers.
The R34 sold for only three or four years. Though rumored plans for the platform, to include a sedan for Infiniti and a possible CUV, suggest that the R35 will be around for quite a while, The speculation will persist until NISSAN just bold face admits the car will be around for more than four years.
GM flatly said that they were going to build only 2000 ZR-1s. The Speculation for this first ever $100K+ CORVETTE that will eat all but the most rarefied sports cars alive has been absolutely obscene. The GT-R is commanding a 80% markup while the ZR-1 is commanding up to 300%.
In terms of actual price both cars are not that far removed. But Both cars aim toward different things.
The GT-R R35 (Or is just GT-R35?) aims to being the best Performance car NISSAN could build.
The C6 CORVETTE ZR-1 aims to be the best street-able race car GM could build.
What’s the difference?
By my definition, A performance car is a car that does not necessarily adhere to the rules and conventions of normal and/or intended sanctioned competition. It is designed to perform to a standard not necessarily supported by Sanctioned competition. Such cars can advance their abilities with simple upgrades and do not actually require fundamental improvements.
A Sports Car is a car that does or easy can comply to the rules and conventions of normal and/or intended competition. It is often limited by standards supported by sanctioned competition and can only advance it capability through fundamental or structural improvement often approaching that abilities of actual purebreed racing cars such as GTP and Formula cars.
Bottom line the GT-R was not made to compete, simply equipped dominate. It is not too good for competition just not suited for it. Strapped down to met sanctioned requirements for say the ELMS or ALMS, the GT-R would be eaten alive by CORVETTE, PORSCHE, and others. But as it the GT-R it going to be very hard, if not nearly impossible, to beat with the current array of cars available.
The ZR-1 could hammer the V Spec by a few seconds. But as I have said on other threads, I doubt GM or anyone will find a driver that can do it. It is not impossible but it means maintaining an average speed marked superior to the R35 V Spec, which should be 104.37mph (remember this is not an oval track or a drag strip).
Blakkarr, thank you for at least acknowledging that maybe someone in an American racing series would be the driver of choice. In fact it will more than likely be Canadian Ron Fellows. If you need further proof of his accomplishments and ties to Corvette in the American Le Mans series just Google his name.
Like I said in previous posts, I’m gonna wait for official times and whatnot to be posted. I mean the GT-R is already a godzilla, there’s not doubt about that, but the ZR1 has a LOT going for it so let’s see what happens. I wanna see the V-Spec though. I can’t help it, I’m a fan of Japanese and European cars. In the end though, performance is performance, no question about it.
Who cares? Nissans are junk anyway.
Why do people keep saying GM can’t find someone who can drive “The Ring”?
GM is the world’s #1 car maker, and they find anyone who can take their car to the limit on the world’s #1 track?
that’s one weak Rolodex!
Sounds like ignorance to me.
If they can’t get a top driver, they deserve 2nd best.
DrFill
Of course it will do best, the ZR-1 is the top of Class of the Vette, GT-R is just the base model, so this would be relevant only if it were the GT-R V-Spec.
Yeah, everyone just needs to chill out and wait for the results. As johhnycanuck, and others mentioned GM should put the C6R Le-Mans race car drivers behind the wheel, preferably Ron Fellows or Jimmy O’Connel, Olivier Baretta, (sorry if I mispelled anyones’ names).
Also I too predict that the ZR1 will best the GT-R’s Ring time but the V-spec will probably best the ZR1.
And of course with “ALL WHEEL DRIVE” the GT-R is always probably going to pull quicker lap times…
Rafa LL that is the dumbest logic i have ever heard. If that were the case, since the Carrera 2 is “just the base model” of 911’s than Nissan should have been pitting the GTR against that the entire time - not the much higher up 911 Turbo. This arguement isnt “relevant” at all considering the huge differences between the two cars - particularly AWD and RWD.
You know, it’s totally ****ing gay to participate in the ZR1 vs. GTR debate. This reminds me of those pimply fag fanboys that used to argue over the 360 vs. the PS3. Simply gay.
DeansterTugJob seems to know all about what is gay or not,
They both might be fast, but they both are ugly. Only a mother could love.
When you’re a colossal, epic homo like yourself KaKalover, it’s not hard to tell what’s gay and what isn’t.
~why can’t we be friends…why can’t we be friends?~
America! **** yeah!
Lol the DumpsterTJ gets defensive
LOL, not really defensive, just making sure you realize your cover’s blown faggoteer!
Typical marketing:
Nissan “estimates” the GT-R will go around the ‘Nring in bla-bla-bla minutes!
GM “estimates” the ZR1 will go around the ‘Nring in bla-bla-bla minutes!
Until I see the cold hard facts on the official Nring website, the 911GT3 RS is officially faster. Why!? Well, it’s because they’re germans, so they do stuff by the book: officially and using a world class driver, Walter Rohl.
Arguing with “predictions” and “estimates” is so medieval…
Rohl is porsche long time test driver. Koenig and several other cars have beat the GT3 time.
Ummm stinky … everyone times their Ring laps the same. Same start, same finish, which is not at the starting point … lol
And none of these times, incl Porshe’s, are “official” times anyways. Many of them are timed by the manufacturers, or magazines, tv shows, etc.
I’m a big fan of both cars, but I did have to facepalm a bit when Juenter (sp?) started trash talking the GT-R’s time, talking about the ZR-1. This is the top-end Vette he’s using to try to trash talk the GT-R. He sounds like such an idiot it makes me cringe. Even if the ZR-1 beats the GT-R by several seconds it’s still totally unimpressive…esp since the V-Spec, which is the GT-R equivalent of the Z06, is going to destroy the ZR-1’s time. And if the ZR-1 DOESN’T manage to beat the GT-R’s time, that’s going to be embarassing as hell.
Yes, +200 hp over the Z06, but also +300 lbs!
Ugh, Juenter, don’t make me facepalm about one of my fav cars …
^ Whoa … ****ed up a bit there … hold on … should be:
“Even if the ZR-1 beats the GT-R by several seconds, Juenter isn’t going to be vindicated, and will still seem like a bit of an idiot” (for the same reasons above)
Also, what a stupid thing to be saying about the GT-R’s record not lasting long … if the ZR-1 takes it, how long is that going to last? Nissan could run the V-Spec 20 mins later and give the ZR-1 like the shortest-held record ever.
Not giving the ZR-1 crap by any means here, but just saying that Juenter sounds like a moron … and I don’t like moroness associated with the Vette.
I think GM should borrow Nissan’s driver, Suzuki for the ZR-1 ‘ring time. Although Magnussen, Fellows and Beretta are certainly more than capable drivers from the C6-R team. Suzuki just knows the the ‘ring better as Nissan has him driving it ALL THE TIME.
They should also use a set of Michelin PS Cup tires.
” Even if the ZR-1 beats the GT-R by several seconds it’s still totally unimpressive…”
G - listen to yourself. Unimpressive? We’re talking about a car posting the fastest (or near fastest) stock production ‘ring time in the world, and you call it “totally unimpressive?”
Step away from the drugs.