yawn…

wow, ditto

First the pop-up headlights, then the pushrod engine, now the slushbox tranny? Sacrilege! Corvette fans will march on GM headquarters with rakes and torches!

granny shifting…not double clutching when you should…

I can buy a VW, Audi, Mitsubishi or Bugatti with this type of transmission, but have to wait five years to get it on a Vette?
Way to go GM.

first of all “maximus”, the quote is, “granny shifting…not double clutching LIKE you should”, second of all, the corvette is THE american sports car. now that GM has that name planted down, they are moving on to bigger and better things. and face it, the corvette cannot compete with exotic cars like ferrari, lambourgini, aston martin, etc. it might be faster, but it doesnt look exotic inside or out and a corvette doesnt give that feeling you get when you step into a ferrari or the like. so i say that GM is better late than never, and they are expanding into a segment they’ve never been in before, so take your time GM and get it right. show the world what america can do when we put our minds to it.

Give me a proper manual like the six-speeder on my Aston and I’m happy.

Hey global_lightning, this ain’t a slushbox tranny. The Turbo 400 like my XJ-S has is a slushbox because it is an electro-hydraulic automatic. It can’t slush if it’s not an auto. Needless to say, this thing will be fun to drive if a little on the bland side aesthetically.

“I can buy a VW, Audi, Mitsubishi or Bugatti with this type of transmission, but have to wait five years to get it on a Vette?
Way to go GM.”

Hey dOOd, what’s exciting is that this transmission is now available in a Chevy (and probably with a lot more performance/dollar than any VW/Audi/Mitsubishi/Bugatti). There isn’t one person in the world thinking “hey, should I buy a Veyron or a Corvette?”

The corvette shop near my house just put their first supercharger on an LS3 vette and got 550rwhp. I sure would love that mated with a WELL DONE dct. Guess I’ll keep my 98 and just save up for whatever the C7 looks like, then consider getting a 2012/2013 model, cause I sure ain’t buying it first year.

Ummm, Jaguar XJ-S

Actually he was being sarcastic. If you notice all the other things in his post are things that were REMOVED from the ‘vette. Popup headlights? Taken out. Pushrod engine? Some cars in the ’20s had overhead valves. He’s suggesting that all the “classic” ‘vette lovers are going to march on GM headquarters because they don’t like all this “New Fangeled technollogee”.

Get your facts right man.

All the manufacturers will be jumping on the dual-clutch bandwagon sooner or later. I know they work great from a performance point of view, but I for one will always prefer my left foot doing all the clutching… double or otherwise.

I just want to say that although they come from a long lived heritage of motorsport, the Corvette is boring! It outperforms cars in double and triple its price range but there is a reason to buy those cars instead of a Vette. Where I live like every suited jerkoff in town buys a vette because they want cheap horsepower (a quick fix for their middle-age crisis that protects their retirement as opposed to a Ferrari). I see these guys zooming around everywhere like they are the most badass thing to hit the streets since Vin Diesel and it makes me so aggravated. I see way to many Corvettes than I should be and it does nothing but tarnish the image.

Vettes are awesome. They’re the drunk sluts of the sports car world. Cheap, fast and easy.

You have seen a guy in a ‘vette “zooming around?” I find that very very hard to believe. ‘Vette drivers are alomst universally the slowest drivers on the road! I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen a ‘vette being driven like a high-performance sportscar (and I’m missing 3 fingers from a bizarre gardening accident involving a small rodent creature and a shotgun).

Mac man, I would say that the “now the slushbox” is in reference to the tranny in question. The other innovations are all in past tense. If my English is correct, now is present tense, thus referring to the new transmission in GM’s leaked document. I think I do have my facts right. Maybe a couple of you should go back to grammar class.

Thanks to the UAW documents leaked, we now know pretty much the entire powertrain of the 2012 C7 Corvette. Engine will be a 6.2L DOHC V-8 with VVT and direct injection (probably 500-550hp), and the transmissions offered will include a DSG, 6-speed auto, or a 6-speed traditional manual. So the only things we don’t know are what it will look like, and if it will be mid-engine (rumors say it will be) or front engine.

I knew the UAW was good for something…

Italiafan – you’ve been driving on the wrong roads. I don’t drive my Corvette fast all the time when commuting with it on the freeway driving in traffic – all that does is attract cops and is stupid. But give me a twisty, windy challenging road with no traffic, and you’ll need an exotic car to keep up. There’s a reason the Corvette has one of the highest death rates of any car, and it’s not because the car is being driven slowly or is unsafe. Do the math.

Highest death rate?
You are making this waaaay tooooo easy for me.
I won’t even bite on that one!
Do the math….now, that is rich!
LOL!

As much as they perform I think its much more satisfying to build a slightly cheaper car up from stock, because when you go fast on the parts that YOU put in it feels differently.

The performance per dollar DCT winner’s gotta be Mitsubishi with the EVO. You can buy a VW for less, but you’ll be yawning as you’re upshifting.

I don’t think GM thinks it needs a DCT to compete with the big sports car boys, because, let’s face it, most sports car makers are content with automated manuals, and there are very few DCT’s out there.

My prediction is the C7 will be front-engined. A mid-engine car would require GM to reengineer everything, which is not an undertaking it should take now. And the Vette’s always been competitive with the 911, etc., when compared with a performance/dollar basis, so why tinker with the formula. That, and people probably buy and don’t buy Vettes, not because of the competition, but because they either want to buy or don’t want to buy a Vette. Ever try to convince a Porsche owner to sell his 911 for a Vette?

To me moving the Corvette upin price point is not a good thing. If GM wants to Compete with Aston Martin Ferrari or Lambo they should do it with their luxury brand (Cadillac) and not their volume brand. Brand recognition is soo much stronger than name recognition. Maybe they should create true exotic division named after the founding car – Corvette. Then you could have cool cars like Corvette Typhoon ,Corvette Blue Devil and when people see the various cars they would say nice Corvette (Brand) and not nice Chevy. I may be alone on this one but just my $.02

Jazz….
That is a very interesting point.

wow….

Ok Pricepoint has nothing to do with people wanting to buy a Corvette. Those who have the money to spend it on a Vette, M3, RS4, RS6 and DB9 aren’t really concerned with pricing, the rise in pricing is due to GM having to pay VAG or whoever they are getting the DSG/DCT transmission technology from (probably Getrag, ZF). And with rising costs of Carbon, and other metals used and inflation, pricing will always go up, your paying that extra to have an engine Handbuilt, the technology, and or inflated pricing from GM for the vehicle to be profitable and able to be mass produced. GM has no choice but to keep the Corvette name competitive with the world so expect rising costs no matter what.

XJ-S, macman,
I was being sarcastic. I’m all for the ‘Vette getting new technology. But there’s always that small group of enthusiasts that don’t like change, especially when it comes to the Corvette. ‘Slushbox’ is a derisive term for a torque-converter based automatic transmission.

Doppelkupplungsgetriebe!

Vette still kills cars twice the price with one clutch haha

F3INT))….- Why do you get aggravated seeing many ’suits’ driving Vettes? I’ll never understand why some feel obliged to assess someone else’s worthiness to own a particular car or house or whatever other pocession. Sounds to me like it’s a wee bit o’ jealousy. Nothing like being reminded, frequently, there are others who make more $$$.

.

Jazz – It’s a game of perception. Does GM move the Corvette upmarket, and fill in the gap with a new model? Or like you said, start at Caddilac and go from there. Either way, there will be perception issues. Caddilac isn’t anywhere within reach of Aston or the others you mentioned. Maybe BMW, with the CTS and Mercedes with the others. Personally, I’d drop Corvette from the Chevy badge altogether if they want to get into the supercar game. Create a new brand, and bring the Vette under the new umbrella. The Vette could be it’s first and entry level model. I don’t think it’s a far stretch to see the Vette as an entry level supercar.

LOL! Sorry, I didn’t read your full comment…we said the same thing.

I think Jazz and Piablo are on to something.
Ford did it with the GT.
Corvette ould become the entry car for a series of “exotic” American cars with price tags north of $150K.
Thye have the brains, the technology, and likely would have the buyers too.
Unfortunately, it will never happen (yes, you can say you heard that here first!).

The vast majority of people who drive Corvettes are not racers. They tend to be older drivers who don’t care “when they get there as long as the get there”. When the driver is younger, they typically drive slower because the cops will pull them over for doing only a couple of miles over the speed limit, while that little Civic with the half drunk kids, doing more than ten miles over, weaving like a bent sewing needle, flies by.

Back to the point,

This DCT, if actually does mean Dual-clutch Transmission, is going to be needed to bring the Vette from a serious world contender to a world champion sports car. It lacks refinement, much needed to go properly toe to toe with Ferrari at the track. Even now the C6 is more muscle car than it should be. A DCT/DSG uses two clutches for faster smoother shifting. Usually automatics and automated manual trannies make best use of these as humans just can’t shift fast enough to notice but the machine will shift faster and the driver will notice that.

Paddle shifters or a manual shift gate (that +/- thingy next to the usual automatic shift would groove) would replace the usual shift lever in a manual tranny. The Clutch pedal would also be either gone or not absolutely needed for performance driving.

The Corvette, will benefit from a DCT/DSG in other ways. One variation of the tranny is soon to be available that will support hybrid power. But instead of using batteries, capacitors, which are smaller and lighter than batteries, would be used to launch the C7, much like the Lexus LF-A.

Detractors to the DCT/DSG simply have no experience or refuse to accept that plain old six-speed Manual is soon to be a thing of the past or the bargain bin… or are just crying for attention by throwing out anything to get a response, even if it means they sound like total and absolute fools.

Next comes the suspension.

The Leaf springs, while they have worked in the past, are being considered for replacement with coil-over springs, which racing teams and tuners have been using for years, because the leaves will occasionally act like an SLA, compromising handling.

The increase in costs is indeed related to the costs of materials. While it has not been ruled out yet, a more aluminum-intensive platform is possible. More Carbon fiber and magnesium alloys are likely. Newer less expensive Carbon fiber is being developed and readied. Rumors have it that the C7 will weigh in under 2900 lbs.

Work on the new engine is best left to speculators but will NOT be a pushrod and make at least 400hp for the “standard” Vette and upwards of 700hp for a top tier model.

Pricing is, of course not set, but is likely to run the line from about $50K-$100.

Finally GM is also looking with some seriousness, at making Corvette its own brand, not unlike Hummer. A prestige brand and aimed at, like Cadillac, a global mark. If this happens a MR platform could follow but would likely be a Cadillac slotted above the XLR.

Blakkarr.
I use an “F1″ system in my Maserati.
I have to agree with you that it is indeed fabulous. But I do have many “purist” friends (who are not fools by the way) who still love slotting through a 5 or 6 speed (especially the gated variety in their Ferarris), and I have to admit it does have a certain “satisfaction” about it. Performance driving is better with F1/Cambiocorsa, or whatever it is called that day without question.
Pricing of $50-100K?….You’re really going out on a limb there!

Not really, Italiafan,

The pricing structure being proposed is very similar to that of a Porsche 911. That car starts and around $90K and works its way happily to over $150K. Last I checked, A 911 turbo was about $189K, but I think that was a very inflated price list but would not surprise me.

Anyway, The idea of a $100K Vette does sound strange even scary or stupid, but the idea also stems from exclusivity and the top tier “ZR-1″ would be build in very slim numbers. While over $100K is punching things in my mind, Viper money (about $85K-$90K) sounds more like it. But the Vette has really come on strong as a serious sports car well worth the money (Interior woes aside) With the Z06 commanding a list price of just about $65K, billed as a street legal race car, the new ZR-1 would not be out of place asking at least another $20K more over the Z06 as it does over the standard Vette’s $45K.

This largely falls in line with the pricing scheme of the Porsche 911: Offer a reasonably common “mild” version, then move up to a “medium” with more “go-fast” features and fewer of them to be had, and finally a killer “Hot” machine that could hammer super cars costing two or three times as much happily but is also maybe just as rare.

While I shutter at the thought of a $100K Vette, I did the same at a $60K Mustang. I got over it, we all will and GM might just make a case from serious American sports cars on the world stage.

Now if the Viper would kindly follow suit and FORD would get on a build the GR-1…

F*cking awesome! GM really kicks ass these days!

Totally concure Blakkarr, but I doubt a 700hp Vette without some form of forced induction. And I doubt any type of hybrid platform for the Vette. Although FSI technology is best used with high octane gas not available here in the US, although some sort of Vapor type of combustion would work best for lower octane gas and I see GM using this, since Bosch has been working with Honda on a project using this technology and turbocharging..

Italianfan, I hear ya. A 6 speed manual gives the driver more control of the vehicle. There’s a satisfaction of being able to rip through lightning fast shifts with a clutch instead of having a computer doing it for you. As it is, the driving experience has been dulled down to the point where the driver simply pushes his foot against the accelerator and turns the wheel. Automatics do the shifting. Anti-lock brakes do the braking. Traction control reduces any need for driving talent period. Kinda hard to say the driver did anything when the car is controlling the whole experience.

I won’t deride anyone who wants that “seat of your pants” driving experience. That’s what the Dodge Viper and the Ford GT, among many others, were made for. That’s why more than a few of these top drawer Sports cars have off switches for their driving aids.

But those aids are there for the express purpose of making the car accessible to those with the money but necessarily the skills to safely drive the car fully or even in bad weather. We all know the videos of people slamming and wrapping their half-million dollar, 200+mph, “race-car-in-street-clothes” around various obstacles. In almost every case, one or more aids that would have prevented the wreck were either off or never in the car.

Not everyone who wants one has the ability to drive one without some help. Also as these cars’ limits become further and further beyond normal human ability, the car IS going to have to do more of the work for the driver. As these cars sharpen more and more, the slightest misstep of the gas, missed braking beat, or too slow of a gear shift brings this car around to cut the driver (and maybe the driving public).

Surprisingly while it seems easier to get more out of a car without aids, especially those without “super car” power (think 350Z, RX-8, Cayman, Atom, MX-5 and the like), there are those who revel in pushing the car beyond the reach of it’s driving aids. Using those aids to take the car to places of performance that would be otherwise impossible because the car would lose control before that point is reached or be too unstable to feel confident in reaching such a limit.

Driving aids will always be part of cars, especially sports cars. Many will offer “off switches” for the daring or suicidal. If you think you can handle the car without those aids, go for it. I know the C6 will let you switch off Traction control and ESP, though not ABS (very few will allow that, other wise they don’t have ABS as an option).

A purist need not be hardcore all the time, but rather only when they feel it is safe to be so. Hence why most who buy super cars, have a car that is easier to live with as the day car.

“Who wants the pressure of being super all the time?”

deutschetouring1337,

Why would you doubt 700hp from a 7L engine? Do you believe that only a super car maker can exact 100+hp/Liter displacement for a naturally aspirated engine? Do you not think that GM would not allow decades of racing experience not to be used to build a naturally aspirated engine that could make 700hp or more?

This is not going t be a dime a dozen engine. GM will put its best engineers on that engine and like the Z06’s 600hp engine it will be hand assembled but one person or a small handful of people (FYI: Each engine in the C6 Z06 is signed by the individual assembler).

I have little doubt that GM will deliver on a 700hp engine. Will it be bigger than 7L? I don’t know. But why not? It’s fun to specualte, isn’t it?

Blakkar, I think we all understand why safety features are installed in vehicles. Because there are many who would rather concentrate on other things than driving. This discussion always occurs when someone questions the need for safety features in a car. It’s all a bit silly. I still maintain that if cars were stripped down to their basics again, take away all of the training wheels that desensitize drivers, the highways would be much safer. As you said, with training wheels like ABS and ESP, people drive faster… Fear is a great motivator for people to be safer. ABS and ESP do not encourage safer driving. They discourage it. And THAT is the issue.