Congratulations GM.

**** you, BMW!

That’s fast!

Cool, yet another “manufacturer claim”!
We really need an official record for the Nring times! If Nring laps become a mainstream way to judge performance, soon the Lexul LFA will probably go around the ‘ring in under 7 minutes…
Manufacturers are known to lie, they do this with fuel economy, they do this with power ratings, they do this with most of the “official” performance ratings…

7 min 59 sec??? That’s nothing, I could beat that all day long on my riding mower, at half throttle too.

just like everyone else who doubts the GT-Rs time……. is this time “offical” ?

To all the naysayers who were trying to tell me the new CTS-V wouldn’t be faster than the M5, you have officially been OWNED.

*official

I think a agree with stinky007. I would like to what the ACStintzer M5 ran around that track.

And what driver is driving these cars on the ring. There are only a few driver’s out there that can run on that track at full speed there are two many corners to remember for just anyone to take it out.

John Heinricy ran this time – he runs GM’s performance division, and is an ex-race car driver. A good driver, but he’s a bit older and not as active as say any of the Corvette C6-R team drivers, who could probably get a better time.

LOL, I don’t believe this time any more than the Nissan. Do they even have an official timer?

Yes, there is an official timer. GM doesn’t mess around with their numbers unlike some manufacturers.

“The sub-8-minute lap is the fastest ever documented for a production sedan.”

What part of documented do you not understand?

My Murray riding mower OWNS the time mofo’s. Well have a good weekend, I’m heading out so, talk plenty of $H!T about me while I’m gone.

Record or not, just the fact that it’s in that range is pretty impressive for a car based on a $30k sedan. I personally can’t love the CTS’ styling, especially in V-form, but I think it’s great GM is really trying at least to be competitive with the class leaders in performance. Just hope they are not neglecting other programs they should be working on, like putting some nice Diesels in some of their cars and light trucks, and making a decent DSG available, or at least getting rid of the 4sp autos still found in a lot of their cars….this list could get long.

People, this is an awesome lap time for a car this weight and size… Can’t wait to see M5/E63 or RS6 lap times… BTW Nürburgring is now very popular between car testing because it’s very complete, It’s a very fast course with all kind of curves and need of heavy braking, also it has the length.

Turns out the number’s are timed by the Ring’s team that run the track. THere is no way that gm could change the numbers.

Hmmm… why do I get the feeling that way more people are going to try and question this than there was questioning the GTR’s time??

Instead of even giving the slightest modicum of credit to GM… we have to start arguing over what’s “official.” They all start and stop timing at the same spots… but people rarely question other manufacturer’s times. The fact remains, even if it was off by a second.. any car this size that gets anywhere close to the 8 minute mark is pretty damned impressive.

And just for those who were interested, according to the German auto magazine Sport Auto… the fastest lap time for the E60 M5 was 8:13, the E63 M6 posted an 8:09, and the E92 M3 posted 8:05…

Some other notables just for comparison as to how quick this car really is… The Ferrari 355 GTB – 8:13, the Audi RS4 – 8:09, the E52 Z8 posted an 8:07, the Aston Martin V8 Vantage – 8:03, the MB CLK 63 AMG Black – 8:02, Subar Imprezz Sti Spec-C/Dodge Viper/Skyline GTR R33/Porsche 997 Carrera – 7:59, E46 M3 CSL – 7:50, Murcielago LP640 – 7:47, Zonda S – 7:44, Corvette C6 Z06/Ford GT – 7:42, Veyron – 7:40, and a Koenigsegg CCR – 7:34.

So again… unless everyone is going to question the GTRs 7:29 and agree that such a time is invalid, there’s no reason to question this. I honestly doubt that any manufacturer will out and out lie about their lap times on the ‘Ring… because they know that eventually these cars are going to get in the hands of third-parties who are going to run them. So if they lie and these third-parties can’t get close to stated times, then they’re going to get slammed… and no manufacturer, especially GM wants any bad press.

But really… If even I can give credit to Nissan when it’s due, then why the **** can’t some people give GM a little bit once in a while??

Either way… Congrats and Kudos to both GM and Cadillac – they’re really starting to walk the walk… it’s nice to know that America is still capable of producing things to take on the world’s best.

OOOOHHHHH ****!!!

It is definitely very, very fast car. The challenge is to make Lexus, BMW & M-B drivers former Lexus, BMW & M-B drivers. This is the goal this car was built to achieve.

I want really really bad maybe i can smartbuy it

Caddy is rollin. That is amazing.

^ Suck enough dicks, 400horses****edme, and that shiny CTS-V can be yours!

wish chrysler pulled there fingers out there ass’s and gave that power to there chargers.

Daaamn!!! Who’s the daddy now, huh?!? Go GM Go!

yawn….

Look ahead to Summer 2009:

Ebay: 2009 Cadillac CTS-V, 11,000 miles, Buy It Now $26,999.99

Wow! I definitely wasn’t expecting the the CTS-V to break any gring lap times, I mean I knew it was fast and track capable but that’s just impressive. Hey GM owns the gring lap record in the FWD class with the Cobalt SS Turbo’s 8:22 lap time, and now this. Can’t wait to see what the ZR1 is going to do.

Haha I couldnt give away my 2004 Cts-V. I finally just had to trade it in for 25k. Mint only 25k miles. Those damn rear ends popped like zits. Oh and it was always the customers fault so it wasnt covered under warranty. It was a bad as car though…. If it would have only held together.

Cadillac sucks…. what people don’t understand is that when u buy a Mercedes or a BMW you get a certain prestige that you will never get in any Cadillac….although i must say kudos to GM for achieving this lap time.

DaBun07, in most circles the prestige is measured either by acquired knowledge (i.e. dissertation, books published, inventions) or acquired wealth. Measuring each other by what one drives socially acceptable only on this blog, which does not suffer any intellectual achievements whatsoever. Author of this post included.

“Cadillac sucks…. what people don’t understand is that when u buy a Mercedes or a BMW you get a certain prestige that you will never get in any Cadillac….although i must say kudos to GM for achieving this lap time.”

Actually Cadillac owned that prestige LONG before MB or BMW ever had it. The Cadillac brand name, to this day, carries with it a world-class esteem.

MB and BMW are Cadillac’s little brothers

I have gotten to the point where I drive what I like and what I find suitable for the situation I’m currently in. I actually found the new Accord to be more comfortable in the long run than the A6 and 5 series. Prestige only matters if it is required in your occupation. Other than that, its value can be measured only if you consider your cars as jewelries. Thus, there is absolutely no point in owning a Ferrari or Lambo when there are plenty of faster cheaper cars in the market. In this respect we should take a look at the Chinese’s way of life where they spend so little but have huge bank accounts.

If the CTS-V is indeed that fast and still provides the comfort and luxury of a premium sedan at a cheaper price than the germans, then we should praise it for what it is, a good deal.

Wow it looks like America just made the wet their pants. Payback’s a bitch. Cadillac has earned their RESPECT. end of story

Germans*******TYPO

Sweet!

Cadillac now faster than BMW and built better then Mercedes!!!!! Like it or not gentlemen, the Yanks are back!!!!!!!

The new Civic will blow that Caddy off the road, and have better resale value, and never break down, and here’s a link to prove it: http://www.hondasucks.com

‘Veda’, right on brother.

‘Deanster’, funny ****.

-Despite those being huge wheels, they look tiny in comparison to the vehicle, and extremely ugly.

-Looks low quality. Not to say this is the final product, but past Cadillac-V’s have looked low quality as well. It looks like a bad aftermarket kit.

-Great about the time lap. What’s all the arguing about, it’s official, it’s there and that’s that. The last generation CTS-V was pretty fast too.

PWNT. AMERICAAAA — **** YEAH!

This car is badass no question about it but, I just can’t get over how the nose looks in this picture. reminds me of the first-gen Lexus IS and that’s a bad thing. I saw a “regular” ‘08 CTS in person and it looks mean as hell. This photo doesn’t do the car any justice.

“like putting some nice Diesels in some of their cars and light trucks, and making a decent DSG available, or at least getting rid of the 4sp autos still found in a lot of their cars….this list could get long.”

GM has more 6 speeds available in its product line than Toyota or Honda. Get a clue. They are launching a new 4.5L turbo diesel for light trucks next year. HAven’t heard about similar plans from Toyota. GM is making high performance cars and taking care of the basics as well. The CTS-V coupe should be even faster than this. Meanwhile BMW is supposedly working on a 550hp engine for the 2011 M5 and that car will certainly costs thousands more than the CTS-V.

Expect final hp numbers to be closer to 570 than 550. This came from a CAdillac rep at the NY auto show. He said the car should start in the $60k range but there will be options.

Whats crazy is that the Pontiac G8 GXP should offer performance comparable to the last gen M5 for about $40k. The recent issue of R&T has the M3 sedan clocked at 4.4secs to 60 and Pontiac is claiming a 4.7sec time for a $40k G8 that is larger than the M3. Considering the regular G8 was timed at 5 secs to 60 with a 13.5sec 1/4 mile I would say Pontiac is being very conservative.

There are several issues with this -

1st – it’s unverified manufacturer’s claim.
2nd -if that particular car was 100 % identical to the one that will hit the showrooms (the production car) I’ll eat my hat. And by identical, I mean Identical – including tires and sound isolation and all other stuff.
3rd – For the record, I don’t like BMWs, Audis, VW or Mercs, but this Cadillac is about as American as Paris – the car was completely developed and engineered in Germany, that is why they do the testing in Germany, not in the US of A. All Cadillacs with sportier pedigree are developed in Germany.

Here’s the fastest laps table.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times
BTW, a van can do it in 10 minutes.

Hilarous how everyone all of a sudden becomes Cadillac’s number one supporter when such news comes out. The CTS-V is a very impressive vehicle no doubt, great power and handling. It’s just so funny how so many of you here resemble sheep.

Everyone loves the story of an underdog. Cadillac has had less than stellar quality and performance in the not distant past. BMWs and Mercedes as well as other makes have so routinely owned the lux/performance market, it has become rather boring. It is kind of like a champion team or athelete that always wins. It’s boring. Someday it may become an annoyingly familiar problem for Cadillac. Until then its pretty cool. Using the Vette motor is a bit like putting a Hemi in an S-class though. I’m sure it would have worked but it just wouldn’t have been right.A bit of a shortcut I think.

Some idiots are chiming in on “prestige” which is merely a relative matter these days. You don’t understand,your Mercedes or BMW is not that prestigious to me and many other people. I do notice one thing about BMW and Mercedes drivers. Out on the street there is only one way they say they’re better, to out accelerate you. You won’t be doing that in your Benz or Bimmer against the CTS V. Ha Ha.

Good ****. GM went from ingoring handling to nearly benchmarking it.

Was is prestige to you? A $200k+ Bentley?

But hey, at least GM now is making Caddys that people under 65 may want to drive.

However, I noticed those times are really unofficial. In other words, after reading about how the Cobalt SS Turbo did 8:22 and the Mazdaspeed3 did 8:39, the Mazda time is them having to avoid not running over other cars and motorcycles. Oh, and the drivers said it was their first time on the track. Well, they did do 10 laps though.

GM and others should make a point to say whether this was done without other drivers on the course, weather conditions, temperature, etc.

Of course, on that same list, a Subaru WRX STi did 7:59 too. Not going to have the Luxury of the Caddy, but will definitely humble a lot of vehicles out there.

That circuit is too long and the variables too many (wind, weather conditions, driver, other traffic, etc) to rely on Nring times. Aside from general trends (sub-8 seconds, etc) I’m not sure what can be relied upon from these times.

To conversely paraphrase one of my cohorts above– funny how when a little domestic badassery takes hold of The ‘Ring and a few imports get their ass handed to them in the form of amazing lap times, everyone is reminded of why Cadillacs were ever elite in the first place.

ps. Again, America–**** yeah!

Don’t get me wrong – I’m a big fan of Cadillac and one of my buddies has the last-gen CTS-V. It’s absolutely freakishly fast and has brutal acceleration. I love it all around. I’m talking about times on the Nring in general, and that goes for the Nissan GT-R as well.

“1st – it’s unverified manufacturer’s claim.
2nd -if that particular car was 100 % identical to the one that will hit the showrooms (the production car) I’ll eat my hat. And by identical, I mean Identical – including tires and sound isolation and all other stuff.”

its a stock car. Why could GM release lap times from a non stock car? Use some common sense. Furthermore if you bothered to check out the link GM said a video will be released so you can see the performance for yourself. It is beyond insane for people to dismiss this by suggestng that GM is making up numbers. I cant wait to see how people try to discount the ZR-1s Ring time in a few weeks.

For those who are ignorant, it should be noted that the first CTS was tested at the Ring so its not like Cadillac is new to this. They have been developing cars and SUVs over there since the intitial CTS.

“Of course, on that same list, a Subaru WRX STi did 7:59 too. Not going to have the Luxury of the Caddy, but will definitely humble a lot of vehicles out there.”

that is not the standard Sti we have here in America. That is a special edition that is missing “luxuries” like AC and sound deadening according to what I have read. IN addition, it was never sold in the US. The standard Sti is unlikely to beat a CTS-V on the ring. Even AWD cant overcome a 250hp deficit.

The Nurburgring is a decent reference point for a car’s overall performance, but I think recently its been getting way over blown. The reality is, 99.999999% of car owners, even GT-R owners, will never experience their car on the Nurburgring. The very few that do, will not have anywhere near the driving skills required to get anywhere near some of these published Nurburgring times.

Nurburgring times should be used as an overall performance proxy, but not solely used as the only performance or purchase criteria. It should be used in conjunction with 0-60, 0-150, skidpad g’s, slalom speed, braking performance, etc., to get an overall idea of what the car can do.

I think if you bought a car only on its Nurburgring time, you would be making a mistake. There’s much more to a car than just ‘ring times.

Thats only 2 seconds faster then a TSX can do it in reverse.

I think the key is how much comfort and ride quality can the car deliver along with that great Ring lap time. I’m sure the CTS-V will be comfortable as an everyday driver even though it can take the Ring in record fashion.

“Thats only 2 seconds faster then a TSX can do it in reverse.”

What about the civic Si? Heard it does a sub 7:30 ring lap time. I say we dismiss the Ring as a measure of performance for any cars we dont like but trumpet fast lap times for GErman and Japanese cars (not that many ever hit the Ring) we do like.

Again… why would GM lie about the numbers? They know full well that once this thing gets in the hands of the automotive press, they going to try and duplicate that time and if they don’t get anywhere close to that number it’s going to mean a whole lot of bad press for GM – and that’s the last thing they need right now.

It’s just funny that some people will take some manufacturer’s times with more credence, but when it’s a company they have disdain for, they’re automatically doubtful. Cadillac didn’t have the ‘ring all to themselves… I’m sure if they were really blowing smoke, someone from the track would have called them on it.

Any way you look at it, it’s an awesome machine… so why not give just a little credit when and where it’s due.

I guess you spend alot of time in the backseat of that V huh TugJob, I’ll buy one to piss you off since im overpaid.

May be fast but I still would take a German or a Jap car over it. [8.56 pm not am]

Yep, should post that was the Spec-C version. But, that was Caddy’s goal, to beat the M5. When car and driver does the compro, let’s see who wins.

And YES, the Nurburgring is the standard to rate all the aspects of a car. Not just turns and straightaways, but also going up and down. If you want a more controlled test, say with the same drivers and such, look at CnD’s Lighning Lap.

“Super****inbad” kinda like the old VW slogan.

They could do better. You know the BMW or Mercedes is going to try to ace that next year at the latest.

Lighten the car some, with better steel so as to use less of it and some carbon fiber. Allow for a more aggressive suspension and this Sedan should be well into coupe territory.

Keep pushing.

550hp won’t be on the production model, so until it’s actually “production”, I’ll just shrug my shoulders.

**** YEAH!!

Hmm, looks quite nice and seems to handle too, all I need now is a career as a drug dealer or a loan shark and perhaps a few “associates” with necks broader than their heads and a nice collection of leather jackets, and I might feel comfortable being seen in one of these things.

I retract my words, even if the record is not official, at least we have a video to somehow prove it!
I bow to the monster Caddy!!!

please explain all the hoopla of the Nurburgring lap times. who the hell cares (obviously the automotive world and some outside of it) about the lap times on this ONE track. Did Jesus build it and proclaim it to be “THE ALL MIGHTY OF ALL TRACKS ON WHICH ANY CAR WORTH IT’S BRAKE CALIPERS SHALL RIDE AND THEREFORE BE KNOWN TO THE WORLD OVER AS…WORTHY”. give me a break.

MiniMan, actually, yes.

This is one Cadillac I want to own. Sporty, looks great, and has four doors. Great video!

Jon Luc, what makes you think it won’t have 550HP? If anything it will probably be more.

I can see schnitzel beating of VP of engineering at BMW, M-B & Porsche/Audi. Those 3 probably ended being gang raped by their marketing and sales colleagues. Boy, they are lucky Dachau no longer functioning.

Amazing! This was with the automatic car too. I’m sure the manual transmission CTS-V could get a better time due to the lighter weight plus it puts down more power to the wheels than the automatic. I wonder why GM chose to run this with the automatic? Seems dumb to me if you’re going after the best time.

Car manufacturers use the ‘ring as a benchmark proving ground because it’s considered by many (including racing drivers) to be the toughest, most intricate, and most dangerous racetrack on earth… it’s nothing but 13 miles of blind and off-camber corners. F1-Great, Jackie Stewart didn’t nickname it “The Green Hell” for nothing. So anyone like that Teeny-Weeny-Little-MiniMan who doesn’t understand all of the hubbub surrounding the ‘ring must not know too much about it. Besides… what would be the point exactly of each manufacturer using a different track?? The only way manufacturers can benchmark their cars against the competition is by using a single, common track… they just happened to focus on the fiercest one there is.

As far as the car goes… all I can say is – Wowzers! Mind-boggling performance aside, that interior is gorgeous… Anyone who puts this car down does so out of nothing but blind, irrational hatred.

All you domestic fan fags yelling “in your face Europe!” or the ever lame statement “you got owned!” Remember that this Caddy is more a European development than American. It needs French tires to make it stick, Italian brakes to make it stop hard, German made suspension, electronics and engine tuning, German engineering, and a German race track for testing because America has nothing even close to being as amazing as the Nurburgring. So I say for this Caddy, “in your face domestic fag fans” Its Europe that created the fastest Caddy ever. But still people in the market for a high performance sedan will still rather buy a BMW or and AMG.

It doesn’t matter if it was made over the pond moto-racer, the point of the matter is that no matter how many parts foreigners threw into this car America still gets to take credit for it. The entire car could be assembled and shipped straight out of Germany and then the second it hits US waters ta-da! it’s a GM car and a domestic. This is how the world works it doesn’t matter how good your inventions or ideas are there will always be people to buy them off you once you’ve spent years completing them, and those people will probably be American because we are the best =)

“Remember that this Caddy is more a European development than American.”

moto-racer – you’re WRONG once again. When are you going to stop posting nonsense? Stick to facts, or STFU.

The development and engineering of this car was done almost entirely by Americans. The fact that it uses some parts from various suppliers all around the world does not make it a European car. All cars built today use parts from all around the world. There are Chinese made parts in BMW and Mercedes – does that make them Chinese cars instead of German? I think not.

BTW – the electronics and engine management were done by Delphi – U.S.

Z06, actually the caddy’s electronics are german. Bosch is a big supplier of automotive electronics for GM, but not the biggest. This is because much of the engines development and tuning was done in germany by opel’s racing division. fuel injectors, engine control management, sparkplugs, fuel pump, traction and stability control systems all german. Even the pistons, rods and crankshaft for this caddy is built in germany by a company called Mahle. I wouldn’t exactly call this caddy a true american car, and definately not a european car, but it just shows you how the american auto industry is increasingly turning to europe and now australia for new development.

This car is built in Lansing, Michigan on the Cadillac-exclusive Sigma platform with a GenIV Chevy small-block stuffed under the hood… To say this isn’t a real American car could only be done by someone with an irrational hatred towards the domestic auto industry who’d rather stick pins in their eyes than give Detroit even an ounce of credit for building a phenomenal car.

I suppose then, by an extension of such absurd logic… the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry are fantastic American cars, being as they’re built in Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana … right?

trooper1 – I’m not saying you’re wrong on the electronics, because I know the Corvette engines are moving from Delphi to Bosch electronics next year, but where did you get your information from?

Regardless of who made the pistons and electronics, it was American engineers who designed this engine and the car. American GM engineers went to Mahle and said “build me pistons to the following specs.” Mahle didn’t give GM a set of pistons and design an engine for them. And for every foreign sourced part of the CTS-V, I can name 3 American sourced parts. No car is 100% American, or 100% German, or 100% Japanese anymore in today’s global economy. Which is a good thing – the end result has been better cars.

It’s similar to what Boeing is doing with the 787. While there are suppliers all around the world building components for the plane to make it happen, it is a Boeing design, and Boeing’s American engineers that are designing the plane, engineering the specs, doing the testing, and telling the suppliers what they need to build.

Global best practices.

cadillacs are too cheap… i mean look at the buttons there crappy plastics.. the car could be extremly fast and full of chrome but wuld it run the same in 8 years or maybe less. i htink this car is way overpriced and stop bitching about BMW i think the 1-series is a better made car than this.. so **** U