I hope I dont hit that thing while pedaling my Mongoose, I’d flip it over and kill everyone inside.

Oh by the way, I have not seen 3 lugnuts per wheel since the Renault LeCar. Nice touch.

hmmm….should have been fully optioned for 12k, could have made up the revenues on less model diversification. You can almost get a real car for 20K!

What’s a Mongoose?

This is a “smart” and funky car, for urban environments, but it really will be out of place outside of major cities. It is interesting that DC wants to divorce itself from the Chrysler Group, while promoting Smart. Smart has far less widespread appeal, than let’s say a Dodge Caliber, and it has also been bleeding money. I guess if the cars don’t originate in Germany, DC has not stomach, talent, or skill to manage the brand.

The Mongoose Madcapp is talking about is a brand of bike.

A semi-hauler passed me the other day loaded with these cars here in California.

These things are already for sale here in western Washington USA (and have been for some time) through some mystery dealer called I-5 motors. I don’t know if they’re gray market cars or what, but they’re charging well over $20k for them.

Madcapp comes with his same tired joke he has been dropping on every Smart topic for the past year. It wasn’t even funny the first time.

Saw one or two in Canada last summer. I assume they’re already available north of the border. Small and distinctive. With these prices they’ll sell adequately.

Once a full features list is released, I’ll get these prices into my price comparison site’s database.

http://www.truedelta.com

Are they serious? No air conditioning, radio, power windows etc. and they still charge $12k??

I’ll take a 5-speed Cobalt LS or equivalent, thank you very much. This thing is a joke.

I’d rather have the Brabus tuned Smart roadster much better.

I’m just trying to see if any people here remember it. Lighten up and get a sense of humour.

Oh and by the way, 6 months from now when there’s a LLN story about the first Smart ForTwo owners taking delivery in the USA, I’m going to put the same line up about the Mongoose again. So mark the date and check the time.

Good call, GTP:

I don’t understand where chrysler gets the balls to try to make a profit on ANY car they put out at this point in time- $12 is WAY too much to pay for half a car

Man, if I hit that thing with my Schwinn, no one inside the car will survive. This thing should come with bicycle helmets.

What is the crash ratings for these things? I really like the concept of having these efficient little buggers running around, but i just can’t get the image of a blinged out Escalade completely crushing one in an accident.

Actually if you watch the old Fifthgear review, Smarts are alot tougher than you might think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYLn47VwJs

Bring back the LeCar, Renault!

Has anyone else seen the company that puts the, I think, Hayabusa motorcycle engine in these? I remember seeing a video of one tearing up the dragstrip & a local parking lot. Looked like the ride of a lifetime. I can still see these becoming a cult classic in the city.

Tridion safety cell, or something like that … I saw the Canadian government testing video at the auto show a few years ago before it came on the market and this car just bounces off anything it hits.

My concern isn’t the intrusion into the passenger compartment. Instead, I’d be worried about G forces with such little “give” upon impact.

12K is okay…but once I hit 17K, I’d rather take a tC.

We’ve had SMARTs for the past 2 years here in Canada, they have been selling like hot cake.

Actually, we’ve sold Smart cars through one of our dealerships for the last 3 years. They were imported and Americanized by Zap Products (www.zapworld.com).
And we aren’t even the only franchise in Reno.
So I’d say the article was a bit inaccurate.

It must be chineze. It reminde me of the car the trained monkeys drive in the RB,B&B circus parade.

Pass.

I hope I don’t hit one with my HUFFY, my bike will fall apart.

I’m pretty sure this being their “first time” in the US is refering to Smart officially marketing them to the US Market instead of third parties importing them.

I agree with PrimeGTP. . .12k shuold be fully loaded. Period. Even for 12k I’d buy something else, Mazda 2, used Mazda 3, used Tc, used golf, Honda Fit, and the list goes on…

For goodness sake. . .for 17K you could (almost) buy a base mini. WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING?

Sorry, but the Honda Fit is a much, much better deal. Overprice German stuff, not overpriced German crap b/c this car is probably well built, just overprice stuff.

This will sell to
1. Novelty-driven buyers with extra cash
2. People who live in those manufactured cities

After that, you’d need some extra incentive for people to get them at 12-17K
like preferred parking spots, perhaps taking regular parking spots and dividing them into two or 3 for these things to go in sideways. I always think of these cars at Nascar races where you see people drive to the tracks in cars to one parking lot, then get picked up by golf carts to be taken elsewhere and there’s a second parking lot for the golf carts.

I agree with others that as towns are built now, there’s not a whole lot of reason to get this over the larger subcompact class cars.

glad to see some sense with all you people. seriously, 12k for a “radio-ready” console? wtf? with options youre into mini and scion territory. without options youre already beat by the yaris, versa, and fit. and dont think this thing has great gas mileage, its around the 40s. even a corolla can get that. this car is seriously a joke.

That thing looks like the escape pod for a Suburban. That little thing may fly in tight urban center like New York, or Chicago. or some such… and not very well, But I live in Texas… Truck country… Cars have to be big to survive out here.

As for options, DCX better reconsider for all the reasons others have listed above. You can buy a loaded Kia for just a tick over 12K… I’ll pass…

TOM-F

yeah they’ve been selling them since ‘06 here. They’re parked in the BMW parking lot in auburn near the EQC. I drive from south sound to seattle every weekend so I see them all the time…

People are going to buy this to get around a small town, go to the local coffee shop and such places.. Why does everybody keep saying “well by bigger more massive SUV will crush it” the idea is to reduce traffic congestions in towns that a car like this might actually make a difference. its not for people that drive on eight lane highways daily. This car is for people who just want a fun little car, its not a bargain. That’s what the scions and kia’s are for.

Its EXACTLY designed for crowded European cities. The parking and manuvering advantages are worth it. You can park 2 in ONE parking spot.
So is the mpg (we were seeing 60/hwy,49/city)
And talk about getting attention. More people stop and stare at the Smarts than if you were driving a Murcielago Spyder with Eva Longoria in the passenger seat!
If they sell them for 12k, it’s worth it. There’s actually a LOT of engineering in that little thing. I’d much rather be in a Smart in a head on than one of those ****terbox Korean cars.

Hey Buenos!
While I appreciate your attempt at humor, and understand the point you were trying to make, I find the use of racial slurs and other derogatory slang offensive. As an African-American, who considers himself to be a car enthusiast, I enjoy reading these blogs, and I really like the Leftlane News website. I would hope that I could continue to enjoy this otherwise fine website, and forum, without having to read a word which is degrading, insulting, and painful.

wow thats a nice golf cart, I sure could….wait its a car??!!

HAHA, what a joke. Why would anyone in their right mind get that thing? And at 12 grand, man you could get one heck of a used car for that much instead. That would be a nice toy to play with around the house (eg, go cart) but thats about it.

I think it’s overpriced by about $2000. I think a loaded one should be about $12K. If you option it up to $14K or $15K, suddenly you’re into the territory of many much larger, respected cars that come standard with a nice stereo, AC, power windows, etc. But maybe they’ll sell a bunch of them to young kids in New York and other highly urbanized areas.

Haha…there won’t be nothing left of this thing once it hits an F-150 at highway speeds (a common vehilce in North America).

the brabus version is badass

Yeah, you’d need AC, but you don’t need a radio; Just some external speakers and a jack for your ipod-like device.

supercharged,
It’ll do 90mph. It corners on rails. Its seats 2 with plenty of room and a little cargo. It’s cheaper than ANY other car, and safer than any econobox.
Try and get your mind around facts. Not everyone needs an Excursion.

1c3d0g,
In crash tests with much larger vehicles, it basically bounces off with minimal intrusion to the passenger cell. It has airbags all around.
They even ran one into a concrete wall at 75mph (much faster than NHTSA crash tests), and their was no incursion and both doors still opened.

It’s not German, it’s made in France!

Norby,
I’d have to see a link before I’d believe that. At 75mph this thing would get crushed like a tin can.

“Kenny”, it’s been stated twice on this thread … once by me and once by “norby” … but since you’re too lazy, here’s one link (’cause I’m lazy doing your work for you) showing it bounce off a Benz … http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C8232/

Get a clue, do a search and find out for yourself next time.

Yes I see that they can build a strong shell and keep the cage intact, but they canna change the laws of physics, captain. The Smart changes direction rapidly where the S class momentum is not nearly as radically changed. The people inside also change direction rapidly and therein lies the problem.

I do lament the proliferation of oversized vehicles here in the US, and I certainly do not base my decisions on vehicles based solely on size and/or safety, but I think I wouldn’t like to drive this on a freeway here on a routine basis, but only in an urban area where speeds would typically be less than 35mph

deutschetouring1337:
“I’d rather have the Brabus tuned Smart roadster much better.”

And I’d rather have a bipedal robot that can change into a spaceship, but, to paraphrase one Mister Rumsfeld, “you buy a vehicle with the money you have.”

Good post, Parakleets.

“doctrsnoop”, if you’re referring to me as captain, then I’ll refer you to my post yesterday, the 20th, at 1:03 pm for the “give” issue.

I wondered how they would price this against normal-sized cars.. and it seems they hit the perfect price point to exclude rational consumers that realize that you can get a more substantial, reliable Versa or Fit for only $2K more. Of course, they will sell every one they bring over to the hip, trendy and status conscious folks that couldn’t care less about utility or value for money.

When is the hybrid coming Daimler-Chrysler?
Smart is a division of MB and they claim it has the same level of passive safety as an E-Class, fans (and of course owners) include Stirling Moss, Gordon Murray and David Coulthard.

the smarts ARE way tougher than they look. dont know how DC does it, but just two days ago, there was a bad crash, with a smart involved, right on my way to work. the other car was a Audi A6, and it was badly damaged. the smart could even still open the doors from what ive seen.

i still wouldnt want to have a crash in one of them, but then… i wouldnt want ANY crash at all…

#

It’s not German, it’s made in France!
Comment by Bimmer, posted on March20 at 9:03 pm

thats not all true. its BUILT in france, but most of the engineering was done in germany…

Impulsive,
That was an S-Class, not a unmovable wall & not at 75 mph. So I still question that statement.

Thanks,
Mr. Lazy

“Kenny”, seeing as the market for this car tends to be the urbanite, the odds of many people driving this car at 75 is low. The car is geared toward the city driver who will (hopefully not) encounter situations much like that shown in the link I provided, at worst.

I’m sure MB has designed it to possibly equal, if not exceed, the “crashworthiness” of most other vehicles at 75 but I have no inclination to find out if any tests at that speed were done.

Based only on the video some have referenced here and the crash data I have read I believe that this car will be less safe than most. While it is innovative in how it negates structural intrusion into the passenger cavity, modern cars actually depend on deformation to absorb energy in an collision. The structure of this car does not deform which is good, but because of that it also must releast the impact energy in other ways. The S class vs. Smart video shows the smart rebounding much like a golf ball does when it hits pavement. Even at moderate speeds there will be secondary impacts and
‘G’ loaded changes of direction that will be quite violent to the occupants.
Being a ‘motorcycle guy’ I wont be negative about someone wanting a smaller vehicle. It’s just that I know people will expect the same protection they get from their ‘normal’ vehicles and will cry foul when they dont get it. If you choose to drive it, then accept the risks as your own responsibility. If I had one, I’d be tempted to wear my helmet.
By the way, my local media reports that these will be going for $25k here.

Impulsive,
I’m not questioning where this car will be driven, but rather the scientific process of the crash test.
1) It was not a very scientific crash & they have no data to show nor compare the results to other cars.
2) We don’t get any real idea as to how the occupants would have fared. In such a small car what happens to the occupants legs?
3) The wall moved decreasing the energy absorbed by the Smart.

I find its performance to be impressive, but would like to see more standardized tests done as opposed to a random test done on fifth gear (I think that’s what show it was). I’d have to see a full assortment of IIHS & NHSTA tests before I’d buy this vehicle and I know others would as well. It’s diminutive size forces one to question its safety & one video can’t quench that concern. I’m not arguing for the sake of it, but because I still have many questions that I’d have to get answered before I’d declare this a “safe” car.

I never knew SD had so many crash test engineers!

Never mind that this car had to get past the NHTSA and IIHS. “Uh dur - it’s small so it must be unsafe uh dur. I’m not an engineer but I play one on LLN”.

It always comes from the same morons as well….

I repeat, the video I linked is the first I found in a search on the web for “SMART car crash test” … I only gave the link to show that its Tridion cell design is quite good. In no way should that link be viewed as anything but a simple study in the vehicle’s composure in a crash at that speed, nothing more.

And I already stated I saw video at the auto show a couple of years ago presenting similar results. I believe the Canadian government must have something as they permitted the sale of this vehicle in the country but I don’t care to pursue this any further because I’m not in the market for one.

I only responded to address your comment about it becoming a crushed tin can at 75, which I doubt.

Here you go, Capt. Lazy!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/60538/smart_car_crash/

That would be Mr. Lazy … “Kenny”. I am only to be referred to as Captain.

The video is for him. But it still isn’t official NHTSA or whoever to qualify a safety rating, just another crash test (albeit faster than shown in my link).

That is one hell of an engineering feat … and the car is cute too.

Safety freaks may be interested to know that they float very well too. I saw the crew of a 60m sailing yacht trying to drive one into the starboard lazarette from an inflatable purpose-designed raft in Monaco a few years ago.
.
It would have been an impressive feat except that as the car drove onto the folding steel ramps to go onto the yacht a small swell rocked the raft; being inflatable it sagged on the leeward side and the car started to roll. The crew tried and failed to stabilise it, the windward side of the raft started to lift and the gathered crowd had a good laugh watching the little runabout gently roll into the sea!
.
The whole excercise was pointless showmanship, why would the owner go through a half-hour excercise to launch his Smart Car when he had a very nice Bentley parked on the quay? Presumably he kept a car on board for when he wanted to go ashore somewhere where one can’t rent a car, like at a remote beach, which the Smart Car wouldn’t be able to drive up anyway.
.
It would have looked cool if it had worked though, and the owner looked seemed to be having as much fun as anyone as he bowed and joined the crowd laughing at his little Smart Car bobbing around Port Hercule while the crew used one of the tenders to keep it from bumping into any of the other yachts.

Thats pretty funny eurospective. probably worth every dime to the rich guy as well lol.

Hey, I never claimed to be an automotive engineer, I am just a lowest of the low electrical engineer with no special knowledge of crash science. But I think my perspective is rational. Kudos to the designers to eliminate structural intrusion, but impact forces have to be absorbed. What I want to know is how is this done?
We all understand how structural dissipation absorbs so much impact energy in a race car. What happens when there is no or very little structure to dissipate those forces? I suppose I am asking the question rather than trying to hang the ‘unsafe at any speed’ label on the car.
IMHO it is a valid concern.

Also, as this and/or variations of the Smart car have been in use in Europe for some time now, there must be plenty of crash data and aftermath photos. Those would be interesting to see.

NO ONE is going to buy this as a “novelty”. Driving a golf cart anywhere else besides the country club is NOT COOL, and NEVER will be. The only reason this car exists in the first place is because of it’s FUNCTION. IF ITS NOT INEXPENSIVE- WHATS THE POINT?

Costs $3,000 too much for the market.

saw one of these in orlando florida, still don’t understand it. toyota yaris destroys it in almost every category for $1000 less. gas milage is nice, but it just needs more features ( or a lower price).

Toyota Yaris has no style

Nobody stares at you when you drive by in your Yaris.
EVERYONE stares at you when you drive by in a Smart.

when you’re buying a car, there are more important things than “being stared at”. espicially if you’re getting a low-end, economy car. Cars in this price range are suppose to be a good value; not some fashion accesory go-kart.

If you need a low-end economy car, go buy a Kia, and stop torturing yourself on this site. The Smart car is not a low-end car. Its not marketed to budget-oriented buyers, its for people who choose to buy a small car for convenience, and who don’t mind paying extra for style. Think of it in terms of the Radford Minis from the 60’s.
.
What kind of statement is “cars in this price range are supposed to be a good value” (apart from a gramatically flawed one)? Is there some rule book somewhere which defines what cars are supposed to be by price bracket? If so it needs rewriting because Smart have had success with this car by putting compactness and style above low price and ever-increasing-size on the priority list.
.
People pay more for smaller computers, smaller cameras and smaller cars.

I’m in the market for one.

Currently, I own a Nissan Quest, which I love. But, I don’t need to drive a big minivan that seats seven to work everyday. I’m not carpooling. There is no need for that much seating in order for me to go to work. However, there is a need for my wife to have it, since we have two kids and will have more coming along soon. She also carries a lot of big things, like strollers and bags and photo gear. What I need is a commuter car; something with good gas mileage and that is practical and safe for me.

“But wait,” some of you may say, “you can get much more car for the same money? Why waste it on a Smart?”

Because you can’t get more car for the same money. You can get a bigger car, yes. But we all know that bigger doesn’t mean more. Why do people buy Escalades when a Suburban is cheaper? Is it because the Escalade is bigger? Nope. It’s because the Escalade is better.

I haven’t driven the Smart yet, but I will next week. I have sat in one, though, and I will say that the driver seat area (the only area I care about) is much more spacious compared to Yaris, Fit, Prius, tC, Versa and Mini (I have driven all of these cars, and liked the Mini best). It is very easy to get in and out of the ForTwo, as there is little climbing and bending. It just feels right. The features of the car are quite cool, too. You can purchase new body panels, so if someone smashes your door, you can replace the body panels and have a car that looks brand new. You can even buy different colored panels, and drive a different colored car every day if you wish. All those other cars previously mentioned do not have that feature. Also, there roof is transparent and tinted, so you can see the sky at all times. The stereo is really nice, and you can buy optional phone and iPod integration for it. Everything retracts, including cup holders, so that they aren’t in the way when you don’t need them, and the interior is very comfortable and well designed. Nothing feels cheap.

Also, remember that this car is built buy Diamler-Chrysler, and the one that I sat in has a Mercedes logo on it. Mercedes and Chrysler are not known for being a rough riding car, and as the owner of the ForTwo that I sat in tells me, “This car rides like a Mercedes.” Those are his words.

I cannot say at this time if the ride in a ForTwo is better than a Yaris or similar, because I have not yet driven a ForTwo. I have driven all of those other cars I mentioned earlier, though. If you want, I will post again once I have. A client of mine owns the one I sat in, and he is going to let me test drive it.

As far as safety, I feel safe in almost any car I drive. This is partly because our government has strict safety standars for manufacturers meaning they must meet certain specifications or they cannot be sold here, and partly because I am a very alert driver and am aware of the others on the road. I know that will not help in EVERY situation, but it will help. So will the Tridion cell, and so will the seat belts and airbags. Bigger doesn’t always mean safer, either. I’ve seen many Smart crash test videos, and while they do bounce, there is a lot of absorption going on there. I mean, if the thing bounced like a golf ball, don’t you think it would completely reverse directions and go at least 60mph backwards? Looks to me like it absorbed much of the impact and slid along the wall. Id rather have that happen to me, and have my airbags and seatbelt keep me in place, than have my legs and most of my body crushed by the engine of my larger car, which is what happens in most accidents. Heck, the Formula-1 and Indy cars are much safer than most other race cars because of the fact that they fly apart and have little mass, and therefore little momentum. Sure, the bounce in the video was drastic, but I don’t plan on going 70 mph in a ForTwo, and I especially don’t plan on hitting any walls at that speed or any other speed.

Just to add to Europerspective’s point when he said, “People pay more for smaller computers, smaller cameras and smaller cars,” I feel that the Smart is a good value because no corners are cut in order to reduce cost. Granted, it’s tiny, but it’s not a cheap car.

I know hippies will buy this crap but will normal people? It’s a glorified golf cart!! There’s one positive to it I guess, when you get hit it can also serve as your casket!

Funny how everyone points out how unsafe this car is, but no one considers how unsafe a Ducatti or a Harley or a crotch rocket is. Maybe the ForTwo would be ripped to pieces if it tangled with an H2, but I really don’t think an H2 would stand a chance against a tractor trailer. There’s always a bigger fish, and they usually cost a lot more and use more gas.

In several articles I’ve seen where it’s received a 3 star crash rating one of which from the NCAP. The side impact is not good at all. The side doors are known to pop off during impact which makes it possible for passengers to be ejected. The driver protection on a front impact got a 4 star rating while the passenger only a 3.

At the same time it rolls very easily. No other passenger car, excluding trucks, vans, SUVS, have a rollover rating below 4.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/03/autos/smart_crash_test/?postversion=2008040316

I’m very curious why all of this, in fact none of this, is being mentioned on not one of the news stations I’m watching. These cars aren’t safe.