I will not doubt that the H2 and H3 are both better set-up for off-road, but they are actually, as I said, redressed GMC SUVs. That is how they are less expensive and the H3 can go many more places the H2 can simply by being smaller…. less big… sorry.

I am pleased that you agree with so much of my previous post, but I must take issue with your comments about Hummer. GM’s recently discontinued Hummer H1 is the civilian version of AM General’s HUMVEE, which is still very much a part of the US military’s arsenal. The Hummer H2 is based on the GMT800 platform, but was engineered to be the less-expensive sibling of the H1, not its less-capable sibling. The HUMVEE is known to go anywhere that a soldier can keep two tires on the ground. The Hummer H1 retains this capability. The H2 inherited it from its older sibling. I don’t know know specifically about the H3, but I can only assume that the H3 can go anywhere the H2 can go and that is darned near everywhere.

Gogogodzilla wrote “…then a foreign automaker would be best….”

It appears that you have zero knowledge of Chrysler history. Daimler-Benz is second offshore owner of a domestic automanufacturer. The first was Renault. Renault bought American Motors including Jeep Corporation. Renault was a spectacular failure had to sell the old American Motors/Jeep-Eagle to Chrysler Corporation.

The takeaway message is that offshore owners of domestic manufacturers have two strikes. Which offshore manufacturer is your candidate for Strike 3?

How old are you?

And if an automaker is going to be the one to buy Chrysler… then a foreign automaker would be best. For if Ford or GM were to buy Chrysler, they would only be buying it to reduce the competition. IE – to shut Chrysler down. For if Chrysler is shut down, then all the die-hard, ‘gotta buy American’, Chrysler owners will have no choice but to buy Ford or GM. Which is a win for them, but not for Chrysler.

Looks over that new 600hp Dodge Viper. Then looks to the new upcoming super corvette.

Corvette and Viper. Is there financial room for both those cars under the same company? I see GM saying buh bye to the Viper after it cannabilizes whatever technology it can. The corvette’s been around too long (and getting a world beater reputation with the C6 Z06) for it to worry about getting the axe.

Why do they need Chrysler’s headaches( bsides maybe SUV’s and Trucks, but I believe they do have these overseas, and only the Chicken Tax prevents such things being in the USA.. at least until Kia finishes the new auto/truck plant in GA in 2 years, or less, then they can build them there).
Speaking of GEMA: Wonder what would happen if Chrysler ceased to exist? Would they(or their buyers) have to pay off the remainder of the contract( until/through 2011, think it is for 2011).
Or would another buyer say” hey,like the new GEMA engines,maybe we can make a deal?”
Mitsu is also involved, to a degree, with GEMA.

BTW: Hyundai sold almost 500,000 units last year, and Kia was maybe 6-7Kunits short of 300,000 units sold in USA… Not what I would call small sales, compared to Suzuki’s 101,000+ and Mitsu’s 118,000 or so sales last year.
Hyundai was 7th,behind Nissan, and Kia 9th, behind(I think) BMW!!!!!!
It was close, though.
(both ahead of Mazda, in sales, and everyone seems to praise Mazda so much,ya know?).
Not trying to benaasty, just trying to straighten some falsehoods here about “smaller car makers”, lol.

Hyundai/Kia have their own Unions to put up with.
Why would they want more headaches?
(PS: GEMA in Michigan is UAW, btw, 550 or so Union workers up there).
Small numbers, though.

Anyhow, I don’t care who buys Chrysler. They do have a few vehicles that sell 100,000+ per year(PT Cruiser, 300,Minivans, trucks).
take care/not offense.

it gives the consumer choices and yet GM still makes the money…

for example: a consumer in the market for a pickup will consider, silverado, f-150, or ram 1500

2/3 options belong to GM, instead of making half of the money in the pickup line by cuttin overlapping cars, they make 2/3…

this might not have been a good explanation but i hope u understand, GM would be stupid to buy out DC just to kill off models…

GM should also….HEMI EVERYTHING!!!

GM just doesn’t “get” it!!

I’m not saying much more on the subject until more concrete info comes in.

Sorry…

I know Chrysler is in deep over their heads. But I also know that if they are to survive, they need someone how knows what they are doing. Most investment firms don’t think long term, not seeing the company as a possible regular source of revenue. You’re right most will not keep the company long. But then Daimler-Benz is about to dump Chrysler for losing the comparatively small sum of 1.3 billion… Not small to us average people, but not that much to an auto company. GM and FORD individually lost more.. a lot more.

You are also right, that DCX was supposed to be a merger of equals.. which in truth almost never happens. And like I said DB did everything they could to keep Chrysler afloat but never really let them get ahead and independently solid (I may not have said it on this thread). Huge brassy cars and trucks without getting Chrysler to fill in the smaller cars equally well was not a smart thing. When Chrysler asked to use older C-class parts to help develop a new Neon, DB said no. A FR Neon would have been a compact sports car fan’s dream.. like the second coming of the AE-86 Trueno but better.

What an investment firm needs to qualify as a good backer of Chrysler, since they can become profitable if properly guided, is patience, a strong and clear understanding that this is an at least 15 year commitment and the strength of leadership and control to push Chrysler to make the moves needed to become solidly self sustaining ad forward moving. You’re right not many of them have that. But some that back auto parts suppliers, who might be foreign as well, may present a ray of hope… which is all I’m trying to provide by bringing it up. You might not like Chrysler, I don’t know, but I feel for those who do. As a fan of American cars period, I don’t want to see Chrysler go… or at least go badly.

Believe me I do understand but simply saying “no” to investment firms who have no interest in keeping their existing lines up over those of their “partner” but seeing their company turn a profit, and maybe their parts suppliers as well. Kind of like growing the hay for the horse and getting that horse back up to speed and into the running again.

But even if Chrysler goes the way of AMC, and GM buys or keeps Jeep, that would be may be the ultimate irony in all this. Chrysler bought AMC killed everything but kept Jeep, and then GM would killl everything but keep Jeep… It’s almost creepy.

Also I think Hummer might look a little cheesy next to the serious off-road legend of the battle tested, trail rated Jeep, working on 70 years of service since WW2. The H2 is a re-dressed Tahoe and the H3 is a slightly beefed up re-dressed Trailblazer. The GC would eat the H3 for lunch and the H2 would likely give way to a more robust and capable “Rescue” spin-off. Without the H1, dropped a little bit ago, Hummer is just a Bling-mobile division despite having respectable off-road credentials.

As for buying a FORD (as a FORD fan, sadly): At your own risk… expect the F-150 and the Mustang… at least for the next 3-4 years.

Sorry if I run a bit long.

Do you have any clue of the track record of money people who buy manufacturing firms. Money people know money and little else. They tend to think only through the current quarter, but Chrysler’s problems are long-term. This-quarter thinking will not feed the bulldog.

I don’t know what can be done to save Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep. The Daimler-Benz merger with Chrysler Corporation was supposed to have been a merger of equals, but it turned out to be a German takeover. The Germans turned Chrysler’s product into parodies of American cars. What they are doing to Jeep is a crime.

Still, the Jeep brand is not totally lost. GM can ditch the Jeeps which aren’t trail-rated and position the rest as low-cost SUVs in a Hummer-Jeep group. Although GM has dropped its own minivans, Chrysler’s minivans have a large enough market presence to warrant saving. Dodge trucks? They are behind Chevy and GMC and have no compelling reason to exist. Dodge and Chrysler SUVs? Ditch them. This leaves Dodge and Chrysler passenger cars. I would hate to see these brands disappear, but I would not buy them. What to do? What to do?

How is all this affecting their sells. As word gets out, people will stop buying for fear Chrysler will not be around in a couple of years.

That said, Chrysler needs to stand alone, and the only way that’s going to happen is if an independent firm buys the company.

As for NASCAR, I could personally care less. When they stopped building the cars Detroit built, that is stopped racing modified off-the-lot cars (hence the term “stock” or “Modified Stock” cars), Detroit no longer had a reason to build cars that could when the race. So the death spiral of gross mediocrity began when racing no longer really had a bearing on vehicle development. It’s, i think, one of the reasons Europe makes such great cars, Germany in particular. They race almost everything they build and use every bit of experience to build ‘em better the next time around.

If Detroit really wants to win a war of perceptions against Imports, they need to get the “Stock” back in Stock Cars. Be forced to bring, to market, cars that can win races, and do so at a price that turns a profit while not turning off fans and still meet daily needs for years to come. Building hot V8 RWD cars is cool but if they aren’t the ones actually racing and winning… who really cares in the long run. Muscle cars going through even to the 1980s made their names actually winning races everyone knows about. Today’s muscle cars don’t really have that and it is hurting them.

Modern NASCAR sucks because of the over reliance on fixed and uniform platforms that give no room for real innovation, such that one year GM might have an advantage and next year FORD or Chrysler might. They don’t even run on four-wheel independent suspensions, making this quite nearly to only on-road sport that still does. The only thing NASCAR ever brought us, is nearly indestructible engines and they don’t even allow for much variation in those engines. But with proper regular maintenance, an American engine, usually V8s, V6s and the still rare V10, are utterly unstoppable.

Racing improves the breed… It’s really that simple.

If GM removed GMC from the line up, they would lose nearly as much in sales as Chevy acounts for! This SAME ideology of laying Oldsmobile to rest COST GM marketshare equivilent to the combined total sales of Mitsubishi, Plus the millions in costs to compensate dealers too. Its far too costly….GMs prolems are not the brands…it has been the mindless corporate rules, laziness, arrogance of complacency that have dimished the product differentiation and stiffled development. Keepeng GMC is a must….but Chrysler too? hmmmmm

“Hyundai not interested…” Thank the car gods! LOL.

Seriously maybe some of these smaller and struggling car companies should just merge together into a larger more stable entity.