even with the market slump and people cutting back more and more, i feel that if gm and ford and chrysler put out a quality product to begin with they would have seen a significantly less decrease in sales in the past months

@bmw740i

Were you not paying attention? Ford had the smallest decrease of the big 6. Ford has been putting out quality product for years now and it shows in their performance compared to not only GM and Chrysler, but Nissan, Toyota, and Honda as well.

See the problem with people who buy Foriegn cars, they are brain washed. Imagine what would happen if they woke up, drove an American car and realized, oh my they might be wrong!!! American cars are just as good, and in many cases BETTER than their foreign rivals!!! Consumer Reports and J.D Power came around, why can’t these people. Oh yea thats right, the whole being brain washed!! The 70’s and 80s are over folks. American cars are much better!!!!!! Try one!

The blind leading the blind… Could it just be the ECONOMY why Business is bad????

Fusion07:My friend has a 1968 Chevelle that is still stock except the motor (which is now a 572). He said he had no problems at all, even when his dad had it. I wouldn’t mind getting an American car nowadays. They are starting to change their designs a lot (for the better). For now, I’ll stick with my Tacoma because I know it’s almost indestructible (Top Gear Hilux Test) and will last me for 500k miles.

My Toyonda will last me 1,456,743,204 miles without any problems whatsoever. It will even stay showroom clean without a carwash.

Payton
Please get your head out of your toilet
Ford didn’t have far to fall, having already lost almost half the light truck market, and 2/3 the Exploder market
Leave it to you to pat Ford on the back for losing
I guess they should crack open a cold one in Dearborn, huh?
Not a happy new year for anybody
DrFill

While it’s hard to call anyone on this list a winner, Ford has to be considered the early candidate to lead not only Detroit but the industry out of this current mess. Sure the economy is doing its best to act like the anchor from an oil tanker attached to a dingy but it’s quickly becoming apparent that this perceived North American fascination with Japanese vehicles is waning. Or at the very least the playing field is starting to level out. A lot of you might say this is the product of some consumer guilt complex, that those who are buying are giving the domestics a chance out of sympathy, and that may well be playing a small part. However, I think the real reason we’re seeing the Asians suffering equal or worse losses than the domestics is that people are finally starting to get the message that the quality gap simply doesn’t exist anymore. That coupled with some timely introductions- especially on Ford’s part- have at least eased the fear and even the contempt many consumers exhibited when it came to buying a product from the Big Three in the past.

I am the problem.

My car is sitting on 189,000 miles. I don’t want a car payment. I worry about my job.

Johnny
There is still a real, and perceived, difference in durability (3 years+) between the Smart 2 and the Broke 3
If Ford were making the best domestic cars/trucks, I’d give you a break
But……..
DrFill

THESE are EDMUNDS guess’s. They are almost always well off. GM will not be down as far as what they think.

DrFill, even 3 years ago I’d give you that, but not now. I do find it interesting you choose to exclude Nissan. If someone didn’t know you better they might detect the slightest tinge of jealousy in that ommision? I mean look at all those nice coupes and sports cars in their lineup. Wouldn’t it be sweet if Toyota had a rival for the likes of the Z or even the Altima Coupe? I’ll leave out the GT-R since the LF-A should soon be a reality.

Johnny
When the French have to come to YOUR rescue, how smart can you be?
Toyota can trump any Nissan with a snap of a finger
Lexus – Infiniti
Camry – Altima
Supra – Z
Honda is more capable, but less ambitious
I actually like Nissan
They have guts
Just not brains
DrFill

Wow, DrFill is managing to make himself look like a bigger homer for Toyota with every comment. I suspect either he isn’t American, or he’s one of the ‘tards that thinks that Cheney is the anti-Christ and Bush is his hellhound.

Go do some research. Ford’s quality and safety ratings are at the top or near the top of every market segment.

Oh, and your comparisons suck. Every magazine has said that the Infiniti G37 lineup is practically as good as the BMW 3-series for about $20,000 less. The Lexus I series doesn’t even come close.

And the Supra – Z comparison….. Where do I start? There hasn’t been a Supra for nearly a decade. How is it that Toyota beats Nissan with a car that doesn’t even exist? Car and Driver just anointed the 370Z as the best sports car in the world based on performance, quality and price. Nissan’s target for the 370Z was the Porsche Caymen and by all accounts it’s mission accomplished.

Could you PLEASE actually read some facts and understand reality a bit before posting your drivel?

Americans have relied heavily on credit for so long. As soon as the credit markets tightened, the true face of the American economy surfaced. We’re nothing without credit. And all these real estate investors are the biggest crooks and the most greedy people you can find on the face of this planet. IMO, in order for an economy to be sustainable, two things must always remain very affordable: gas and real estate. The minute these crooks speculated gas and real estate and over-inflated the prices, all hell broke loose. If you’re going to pay $5/gallon to travel 200 mile round trip to your job to turnaround and pay a $4,000 mortgage or even if you live in a big city like Manhattan (where you don’t need a car), you’ll be paying just around $3000 for rent, then you’re pretty much out of disposable income and there’s no way you can save to buy a new car. If I was Obama, I would put a cap on gas prices and not allow them to increase more than 1.5%/year and that goes for real estate prices. I’m glad we’re in a recession now because IMO prices were getting out of hand. You might think a recession is bad, but what if you wound up paying $7-8/gallon for gas next year? Or what if you wanted to buy a house and prices were around $750,000 for an avg house? This recession might be good to recycle things and get all these speculators out of the market and hopefully they learned their lessons! Let’s hope we get out of this mess asap!

PB
Regarding Ford, there is a big difference between being at the top (Guess who?), and near the top.
YOU might want to do some research
Didn’t C&D compare the 3-series, IS350, and G, with the 3-series going home early with malfunctions, and the IS beating the G outright?
Was the Z ever better than the Supra at…….anything? Incentives maybe
I said I like Nissan, what else do you want from me?
They have about as much brains as a domestic, that’s all
Same goes for you if you think Toyota or Honda sweat Nissan
Nissan needs Toyota’s leftover Synergy engines to have a hybrid vehicle
Nissan gets brains when Toyota says they can have brains
Not before
DrFill

PB
Honda and Toyota are Janet and Michael Jackson
Nissan is Tito, that’s all
Don’t playa-hate
Appreciate!
DrFill

well at least we can all agree that Ford gained market share in December.

To respond to Edmunds… I have January as square one for the market. December will probably be closer to 10.2-10.3M, maybe even a touch better. I don’t quite see it making it below that. January will likely be the only month under 10M annualized (I have it at 9.4M, that’s about 630k units if you’re keeping track) unless something even worse happens (like a GM bankrtupcy).

Ford is the marketshare winner of the quarter. They gained more than any large automaker. Period. They will probably lose share in Q1 because of business fleet reductions… but it wouldn’t surprise me if they gain share again in Q2 and Q3 next year.

@Dr. Fill

The current 370Z toasts the last generation Supra (you know, the one that Toyota killed because it couldn’t meet emissions standards). Go read the reviews on the Z, the numbers are amazing. That’s what happens when you put a killer normally aspirated motor into a car that is lighter than the previous generation combined with modern suspension design. Nissan truly has the best sports car lineup of all of the large automakers. GM and Ford have no answer to the 370Z.

Casting Ford as winner, because it declined 4% less then Honda and 5% less then Toyota is takes a wild imagination. How much it declined before December? Is it still within top 3 sellers in this country? world wide?
Don’t forget, that Ford will joined 2 other beggars in April/May time frame when their cash will run out. Don’t make mistake about Ford: just like GM & ChryCo they can produce vehicles only on your (or perhaps my) tax dollar. Otherwise this company is as exciting as any stiff in the morgue. And this is reality confirmed by sales or lack of thereof. And aren’t you guys wined about your desires for Ford to bring in US European models? What does it says for domestic models?

just to let everyone know the movie “Tucker: The Man and his dream” is on and all you domestic humper watch this film then do your own research as to how the big three operate

well at least we can all agree that Ford gained market share in December.

How can we agree when we have no idea??? These are Edmund’s guess’s and will be wrong.

WHAT THE …. WHERE DID “Michael Jackson” COME FROM??????????
AND LET THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEM SELF’s, YOU HAVE TO BE IN THE RACE TO WIN!!!

IT’S LIKE SPORTS, THE NEW YORK YANKY’S, A HISTORY OF WORLD CHAMPS, BUT NOT LAST YEAR’S TEAM… DID THEY WIN THE WORD SERIES? NO THEY DID NOT, WHY YO GOT TO BE IN THE GAME TO WIN THE GAME… THE TOYOTA SUPRA, ONE OF THE BEST SPORT CARS OF IT’S TIME… BUT TODAY IT IS ALL JUST HISTORY, WHAT YOU DID YESTERDAY IS YESTERDAY’S NEWS, AND TODAY’S NEWS IS WHAT’S GOING ON TODAY!!!

NISSAN IS ON THE LEAD OF THE JAPANESE SPORT CAR MARKET, AND IT’S THE MARKET THAT SPENDS THE MOST MONEY ON THEIR CARS… FACT: ANYONE THAT BUYS A PERFORMANCE CAR WILL BUY SOMETHING TO CUSTOMIZE OR ENHANCE THE PERFORMANCE OF THEIR CAR…

GO OUT AND PICK-UP A IMPORT TUNER MAGAZINE, NISSAN IS ALL THE CRAZE… FROM CARBINE FIBER BODY PANELS TO 300 HORSE POWER UP-GRADES, TODAY NISSAN IS THE JAPANESE SPORT CAR WINNER, YOU HAVE TO BE IN THE RACE TO WIN, AND FOR THE MOST PART THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RACING…

Things are tough all over.

Jesse Toprak is a smart guy.

bmw 740i: “even with the market slump and people cutting back more and more, i feel that if gm and ford and chrysler put out a quality product to begin with they would have seen a significantly less decrease in sales in the past months.”
What?
Payton Byrd: You’re right.

Fusion07: ”
See the problem with people who buy Foriegn cars, they are brain washed. Imagine what would happen if they woke up, drove an American car and realized, oh my they might be wrong!!! American cars are just as good, and in many cases BETTER than their foreign rivals!”

Can’t risk it. That’s why they won’t bother driving american. Ignorance is bliss. Not to say that every domestic is better than ever foreign car, because that ain’t the case. But, it’s cleare these days that American — Particularly GM/Ford — isn’t synonymous with “crap.”

yarddog82abn: it is the economy.

trantz: My vigor is indestructible. The hood doesn’t even open, because there’s no need.

johnnycanuck: I think you’re right.

Get Real: “I am the problem.

My car is sitting on 189,000 miles. I don’t want a car payment. I worry about my job.”

There are a lot of people in that boat.

DrFill: There is still a lot of denial out there.

DrFill

Toyota’s Faux-luxury division< -Datsun
Camry/ES < Altima (and ever other car in the segment)
Supra doesn’t exist, Z does.

Payton Byrd: ” A lot of non-tards think Cheney is the anti-Christ and Bush is his hellhound. Not that Obama’s any better.

TheRZA: Bad idea on the price controls. If I were Obama, I’d outlaw universal default and the BCS.

DrFill:
Honda and Toyota are Janet and Michael Jackson
Nissan is Tito, that’s all

GM is Hendrix
BMW is Mozart.

yarddog82abn: I will never “GO OUT AND PICK-UP An IMPORT TUNER MAGAZINE.”
I’m a grown-ass man.

The hater-ade is strong for the New Year!
Didn’t know this was a Nissan Bored
Toyota is obviously off looking for bigger game, as the Lexus LF-A sits in the underbrush, ready to strike!
The Z is fine
Until Toyota decides to make something better
It’s the Law of the West!

I heard someone say it took Nissan 15 years to match the performance of the Supra (without the style)?
Congratulations!
Let’s go have a Root Beer!
DrFill

The market is just going to get worse for at least another 4 months.

Many people DO NOT want to commit to buy a car and have payments without knowing if their jobs are secured. With so much doom and gloom around us, buying a car is the last thing people are concern at this point.
I just paid $1300 to fix my piece of junk Volvo S70 98. I will drive that car another year until we can have a better picture of what this recession/depression is going to be like. Like me, millions of people are just sitting tight and waiting. Unfortunately, this is horrible news for car manufactures and dealers. Lots of people will lose their jobs in the upcoming months and I will not be surprise to fee some manufactures fold or file for bankruptcy.
The American dream is over and looks more like a nightmare. But, I am sure we will come out of this down the road.

BORAT
If Honda and Toyota continue to loss this kind of market share you will see them in the same soup kitchen line up along with the other “beggars”