Comments on: Designer of Flex crossover part of Ford’s cost-cutting layoffs

By: xyunya

xyunya — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:49:57 +0000

beatusmongous, with turbo PT has much more torque and HP, I believe it is thirstier then ‘stang because of aerodynamic properties or lack of thereof

TomF, funny as hell

johnnycanuck, you’re getting some serious competition from Tom: not all of us south of the border are retarded.

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:49:23 +0000

I was a first time buyer in regards to financing when I got the PT Cruiser, so I had a high interest rate. Plus, because of the original buying surge that affected the PT Cruiser, I bought mine at $25,000. My Quest was $24,900, but my APR went from 14% to 4.9%. That knocked off well over $100, and the insurance went from $199 a month to $119 a month. Insurance is very high in my town. So basically, I got a larger, slightly more efficient vehicle for a lower price and lower insurance. Plus, the Cruiser was at 75,000 miles, so the warranty was done. I was sad when I had to let it go, but it was a good move for my family. The Quest is already paid off, too, so I’ve been without a car payment for a year now.

By: chester

chester — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:48:24 +0000

If you are trying to call me out, I never said the xB wasn’t successful. The xB obviously is successful hence the reason why they are EVERYWHERE. I merely stated that the Flex is FAR more attractive than the xB. If your comment wasn’t directed towards me then disregard my reply.

By: The Stig

The Stig — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:44:11 +0000

Nice one brassmonkey.

If Ford wants to save even more money fire the biggest turkey of all – Mark “Big Hair” Fields.

By: travis0017

travis0017 — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:43:19 +0000

To all the people dishing on the Flex’s design: I am on the edge of my seat to find out which American made high-volume (not niche markets like Viper) designs you think even came close to appealing in the last 20 years. I think it is great to see an American car go out on a limb and take a stylistic chance like they did in the 50′s and 60′s. I feel like each year’s lineup by each of the big 3 has been an insult to the taste of Americans. America is sick of boring design!
Overwhelmingly, the public approves of new and exciting designs like the Flex. It undeniably took cues from the Honda Element and first-gen XB -both of which, which despite the loudmouths here afraid of change, had very successful sales.

By: chester

chester — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:40:21 +0000

I cannot believe ihustle hasn’t made an appearance yet. He typically has something to say everytime there is an article about Ford. Meh, maybe he’s out selling cars for a change. Good luck Chris. lol

By: golf4me

golf4me — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:32:07 +0000

You’re having a really bad week when you gotta dump a PT Cruiser to lower your car payment.

Flex would have been a 50/50 proposition at 25k, but at 40k it’s DOA.

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:02:18 +0000

Johnny, I think the reason they are thirsty is because they are so heavy. 3,500 lbs. is heavy for a 4-banger with only 150 horsepower. It translates to 23 lbs./hp, which is pretty poor. The newer ones have more power and such, but still, the engine has to work that much harder for the thing to move because it’s so fat. However, being as fat as it is, I found it to be pretty nimble. I felt the Cruiser handles well and rides well, and so far it has been one of my very favorite cars to drive. But three things made me get rid of mine: 1) I needed something with a lot more cargo space, 2) I needed to lower my car payment and my insurance, and 3) my wife HATES PT Cruisers.

By: TomF

TomF — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:37:26 +0000

The National Security Agency has better marketing visibility than this car. I’ve seen no ad support for the Flex and I’ve yet to see one in person. It’s a stealth product.

The key to Ford’s recovery is building more crossovers!

Th 2011 lineup should be:

** Ford Taurus X (revive it, make it flex-fuel)
** Ford Edge (make it Edgier)
** Ford Flex (make it NOT flex-fuel just to keep ‘em guessing)
** Ford Chex (make it run on Ralston-Purina waste products)
** Ford Flax (make it run on linen plants)
** Ford Flux (see Back to the Future)
** Ford Trux (replace all Expeditions, etc. with this)
** Ford Blix (special edition styled by UN weapons inspector Hans Blix)

Then, when the public does not comprehend this strategy, fire all the designers and vote big bonuses for management.

By: Nightblack_97

Nightblack_97 — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:33:22 +0000

I don’t think this is the real story here. Xyungya hemiroadrunner, brassmonkey and chester all agree on something. Gotta be a first here on LLN. for that to happen well… this car must really suck.

By: chester

chester — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:18:53 +0000

exactly.. cookie cutter styling of 80s and 90s is gone (I hope). I think american designers are finally starting to take style into consideration. The next few years will definately be exciting. Challenger, Camaro, redesigned Mustang, diesels in 1/2 ton trucks, almost everything is getting a turbo, its an exciting time to be a car enthusiast right now. I can’t wait.

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:10:23 +0000

Well, Chester, to each his own. Heck, I know people that think the Aztec and the Echo are nice looking cars. I guess that’s why there are so many different styles of cars these days, because some people (like me) just like weird stuff. I am very glad that we are finally out of that horrible, bland cookie cutter style that we had going on in the ’80s and ’90s, though. At least there seem to be some risky designs out there that take away from the norm and make it easier to identify the models. I like what I see now, but I like what I see coming even more. There will be some cool cars coming in 2010, and I just can’t wait.

By: johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:09:14 +0000

beatusmongous: why the hell are PTs so thirsty? We recently traded our ’04 Turbo on an ’02 Mustang GT and on our frequent excursions to the B.C. interior (250 miles) the ‘Stang actually gets better mileage. I think where the Mustang excels is definitely on the straights where even at 75 mph you’re barely turning over 2000 rpm and to pass you never need to go down more than one gear. The PT did well on the same stretch, but you were aware it was always working.

By: chester

chester — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:47:23 +0000

beatus, you are right, the Flex is a lot bigger.. Yes, i was refering to the styling. I hate to admit, but when the PT came out I thought it was kinda cool but now I hate it. I hope that doesn’t happen for the Flex. I’ve never been a crossover/minivan fan but the Flex is probably the coolest one I’ve seen in a while.

By: brassmonkey

brassmonkey — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:38:01 +0000

Dude designs Flex. Ford builds Flex. Ford announces they will redesign after they build Flex. Ford fires dude. Public stops buying ugly Ford. iBot starves. Ford dies. iBot dies. Dude bangs iBot’s mother.

By: jumpoffit

jumpoffit — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:25:30 +0000

did anyone fire GOD for making the Platypus?

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:22:10 +0000

Chester, the Flex is huge compared to the PT Cruiser and the Scion xB. In fact, it’s almost as big as a Nissan Quest (Flex = 201.8″ x 75.9″ x 68″ —- Quest = 204.1″ x 77.6″ x 71.9″). Because of this, I wouldn’t put it in the same category as the Cruiser or the xB, especially since those two don’t even have a 3rd row of seats. However, I see what you are trying to say with the styling, and honestly, I like the styling of all three mentions (Flex, Cruiser, xB 1st generation only). I’m sick in the head, I know, but these things were designed for people like me. And judging by the sales of the oldest two, there are a lot of sick people. Actually, I’m glad I measured the Flex, because I might be able to replace my Quest with it when its time comes in another year or two, and I know the Flex will actually fit in my garage, and it will look good next to my mother-in-law’s PT Cruiser and my (hopefully) Smart ForTwo. Don’t tell me, I know, I’m sick in the head. But hey, I used to drive a ’76 280Z, a ’92 Mustang, a ’97 Trans Am, and a ’60s MGB. But I used to own a PT Cruiser long before my mother-in-law got hers, and I loved it.

My only beef with the PT Cruiser is that it’s thirsty. But it sure is fun for road trips.

By: HemiRoadRunner

HemiRoadRunner — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:16:10 +0000

I never have even seen a commercial for this vehicle. It’s not the guy’s fault, it’s poor marketing, in both research and selling, and management that approved this POS.

By: xyunya

xyunya — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:09:07 +0000

johnnycanuck, the guy got screwed. He did what Ford management wanted him to do: developed a replacement for a mini van. Is it his fault that minivans don’t sell under any sauce? Marketing should read those tea leaves, not designer. I don’t think he was given an option: build a minivan or Ferrari fighter. He has to rid of his name now in order to disassociate himself from that fiasco, but where were all marketing VPs? It’s not like he sprung it on them and whole management team didn’t know what Flex was. Somebody retooled factory and hired extra help to build this thing.

By: johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:57:56 +0000

xyunya: I believe the whole point of any vehicle launch is to get people into the showroom to have a look. I can’t see anybody busting their hump to a Ford store for a look at the Flex other than to amuse themselves and not in a flattering way as far as Ford’s concerned. The only time it matters who gets the credit is when the product is successful. I predict that our Mr. Gresenes (Gresens- pick one LLN) would probably be better off without the Flex on his resume.

By: ktulu

ktulu — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:48:41 +0000

What have U dun 4 me l8tly?

By: acura_el2000

acura_el2000 — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:27:03 +0000

Hey Ford, I know what you need to make profit…. 7 MORE BARELY DIFFERENT CROSSOVERS!!!

By: xyunya

xyunya — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:24:49 +0000

RaineMan, I would agree with you if corporations did not build cars by committee. BTW, camel is a horse build by committee. Reality is that product manager is responsible for a car/van/SUV: designer and engineering staff are creating product out of product managers vision. The most successful and memorable American car – Mustang was creation of Lee Iaccoca, but he is not a designer, he was product manager. Nevertheless, he left Ford and not on a good terms. This firing is an example of escape goat hunting and screwing folks who left their less promising jobs to work for Ford, expecting something better. Blue collars got screwed even worse: no parachute or separation payment for them. And neither Mulaly nor Fields stating that THEY errored.

By: chester

chester — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:14:53 +0000

and Scion xB

By: chester

chester — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:14:37 +0000

It sure beats the pants off of the dog ugly PT Cruiser.

By: Bubs Solo

Bubs Solo — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:05:05 +0000

I like the Flex too… and like anything that is not a compact car out there it’s sales will go as the economy goes. look at the 7 passenger options out there… this thing stacks up well against them. And I’m sure that Gresens not complaining about his severance package.

By: howsmydriving

howsmydriving — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:55:38 +0000

Wonder if his severance package includes the lease of a Flex? I’ve seen the Flex sitting at dealers but have yet to see one on the street.
Ironically, Flex is one of the few Ford vehicles that remained true to the concept vehicle. The latest Fiesta photo’s I’ve seen reveal that Ford has seriously dumbed-down that car from the Verve.

By: fuk-u-asshole

fuk-u-asshole — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:54:20 +0000

i love the flex. successfully uses american ford design theme exterior with a german style quality interior. far ahead of anything GM offers.
I love it pity there is no place for it in the euro lineup

By: Richard

Richard — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:42:45 +0000

RaineMan wrote (No. 6): … but at least the clown that came up with that POS crossover got what was coming to him.

Yes, but the clowns who approved the POS kept their jobs.

By: mayer_ray_nagin

mayer_ray_nagin — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:38:23 +0000

This reminds me of HP where I sadly currently work. A guy in analysis I know took on a role in one of our businesses to increase its profitability. He did an indepth analysis of two of their major products, and therewith proved that they were unprofitable. So the company said “hey great, we’ll kill those loser products, and oh yeah – since those products are gone, we don’t need your analytical butt anymore, so thanks for the work and enjoy life on the streets.”

Companies are really crap these days.

By: chester

chester — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:26:00 +0000

lol

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:25:32 +0000

Well… kind-of a sad story… but at least the clown that came up with that POS crossover got what was coming to him.

By: HemiRoadRunner

HemiRoadRunner — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:23:04 +0000

Salesman? You mean Fonzy? “Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!, I think I can sell this car! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!”

By: HemiRoadRunner

HemiRoadRunner — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:21:00 +0000

I am sad to say I agree with xyunya here. This is exactly why we need unions there. God that hurt.

By: chester

chester — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:11:55 +0000

“halfwit salesman”<<<

By: xyunya

xyunya — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:09:35 +0000

What a magnificent employee relationship saga. Then we wonder why unions are in Detroit. How the company will survive if there is no loyalty between blue collar workers, white collar workers and management? I think 7.8 billion loss is just a beginning. I think only ones loyal to blue oval are some halfwit saleseman, with less formal education then required by union rules.

By: acura_el2000

acura_el2000 — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:50:16 +0000

I would have fired him sooner