The flap over the corporate jets was complete horse puckey, but maybe this is the slap in the fact the domestics needed to get the message through. And this isn’t just the auto biz that needs a wake up call. Corporate executives have been overpaid for a couple of decades now. When times are OK people won’t bitch, but when times are tough it’s hard to defend golden parachutes and such.

Remember in the 80s when Eisner was fired from Disney and took zillions with him? It was little more than fodder for comedians for a couple of months. But it is a sign of something rotten at play here.

Big biz, wake up before it’s too late!

LOL… and the Congress arrived in ARMORED PROF SUV”S…
Did you know there supercharged V8, that weigh in at about 4 Tons each and get 5MPG…LOL…

I don’t think the corporate jet flap was horse puckey at all, in fact if they hadn’t been such horse’s *sses there might not shortly be entire flight departments handing out resumes. Believe me they’re going to notice when those jets are gone. I know you can charter but that’s money going directly outside the company and there are times in business when things don’t exactly go according to schedule. Even if you’re paying a charter operator to do so around your schedule it may not fit their schedule, and if they have to wait it costs you more money. Private jets may be a luxury or a perk but they’re also a tool that when used wisely provide intangible benefits that sometimes are hard to measure.

It is shameful that both Paulson and Bernanke chose to be truant; both should have their positions dismissed and replaced.

^ Thank You
i thought i was the only one. not helping these companies whether they like it or not is a must they hold to much weight to be let go.

to johnny

Gettelfinger is simply horrid at public speaking, absolutely horrid.

Folks, don’t forget that these DC morons are the same morons who GAVE 17 billion dollars of your money to big oil when big oil was making (net) 100’s of billions of dollars in profits!!!! But they do not want to offer a loan to three of America’s greatest corporations? Those oil billions probably wound their way back into the pockets of these DC morons. These companies are like a 100 year old mansion that is worth saving, but it costs a bit more to save it than to bull doze it down and build a strip mall. These companies have been around longer than just about everyone living in America today and they have hit on hard times not entirely of their making. Remember, FoMoCo made a profit the 1st quarter of ‘08. High fuel and tight credit combined to create the perfect storm just when they were on the path to great products for the times. Their trucks and SUV’s were THE great products for their time and pickups will once again spring to the front in sales.

You guys forgot minor detail: nobody would give a crap about jets and salaries, if those executives could do their job. Those companies are practically defunct because they couldn’t. Perhaps they all can walk on water, but their jobs were to run companies to produce cars for people to buy.
There are a lot of problems in DOMESTIC side of auto industry that is absent in transplanted. Major and the most visible one is labor relationship. Perhaps it can not be solved and resolved. Will Union accept the same rate of pay as non-union for the identical performance level? Will executive/management part accept the same condition for employment? Both parties already bankrupt their employer (shareholders), why they entitled exemption?
Reality is congress (and senate) will give them the money. It will cost us more taxes and at some point government will get involved in business of building cars. I am not looking forward to that: I don’t want to pay for Chevy as much as for Space Shuttle or M1A Abrams tank. If there is argument if government should rescue banks - it should not; it is the same slippery road.

I don’t knw, Borat. I’ve been monitoring sites like this for a while now and hear some really stupid things being said/posted. The perception that foreign cars get better fuel mileage lead to some people buying foreign when gas was high. Hell, I had one customer trade her Bonneville for a V6 Accord at the height of the madness. I hope she’s happy now, getting worse mileage in a smaller car.

The fact of the matter is there have been some quality problems from the big 3, and there have been some quality problems from the imports. the difference? I don’t know. Press coverage? All I can say is the perception doesn’t match reality. But cars from the big 3 have never been better, and are at least competitive with anything produced anywhere in the world.

I had another customer just this morning that came to us with a Volvo he’s been having problems with. He has roughly 130K on the clock and is getting ripped off every time he turns around. He is a seasonal resident in my area and would like to buy a car we can repair for him, but he won’t look at a GM vehicle right now because of all this bankruptcy talk.

There are plenty of things to get mad at the CEOs about, but the current downturn isn’t one of them. GM would have been fine by now if the wheels hadn’t come off all around them. I said before I hate the idea of a bailout, but the alternative is much, much worse…

Oh, and one more customer story for you. Another weekender has his Honda CR-V serviced here. He was in yesterday and mentioned the damage for the country if GM goes toes up. Oh, the irony…

Crap, I didn’t mean to hit Submit yet…

Anyway, I asked him why he bought the Honda in the first place. He says he isn’t a car guy, but Consumer Reports recommended it. Thanks guys!

Oh please with your stories. Every car needs service but your stories act as if 3 Hondas coming in for service means that GM is reliable as Honda. Please and your Bonneville story ..come on
I hope you like working at a “niche” brand dealership.

First there is not comparable d3 car out that does anything better or close to a Japanese cars reliability. This is proven in NADA and KBB Consumer Reports and JD Powers are not reliable.

Even if its gets 1mpg better then its not as reliable the interior is cheap or something negative if it werent that way then the D3 wouldnt be begging for a loan now Its the D3 fault and they should file for Chapter 11. Also please stop acting as if the UAW the american public or whatever is responsible for their situation THEY MAKE ****TY CARS ! To hear that Jackass Wagoner say “I made mistakes” is a lie , they were greedy and they sold their ars based on patriotism instead of making the best product
I hope the D3 go down in flames !

Somewhere, at this very moment, a CEO is kissing ass…and a stockerholder is gently weeping.

Don’t you just love this crap

Ron Gettelfinger said that by the end of December, GM could be gone…So will he since there is no need for them anymore.. Not to mention it the GM paying for Union members to pay for their union leaders.

Suspend the Job Bank…how about getting rid of it completely.

Big 3 are flawed in say that no one will buy from a bankrupt company… Chrysler was bankrupt and people still brought their cars and even got out it.

I think that the posts on this site are getting to be insane! As all you Toyota and Honda and whatever else you drive idiots bitch about how bad the AMERICAN car companys are they are constantly improving their product in both looks, mpg and quality! There is no reason to buy a Toyota for quality! In fact, Ford has been as reliable or better on their vehicles for 2 years now! Get with the program! Read an article that doesn’t just bash AMERICAN car companys for once! As much as you seem to hate the “big 3″, they are a major part of our economy and you want to throw them under the bus every chance you get! The people voting on the bridge loans, “bail-out” as you idiots call it, are just as dumb as you are! The old slogan “Buy American while you still can” is actually coming to fruition! Pretty soon, you won’t be able to!

As for you Ford haters, Ford is the only one of the 3 that can sustain themselves for the next year or two without help! They are looking for a BRIDGE LOAN, just in case the economy gets worse in the next year! Stop hating American or move to Japan or China!

If everyone agrees that the WORK PLAN of TOYOTA and HONDA in the U.S. is so grate, why not go away with the UAW, If the JAPS. are so grate at what they do then let’s let the BIG 3 go B.K., cut off the UAW and adopt adopt the work plan of the JAPS. so that’s the plan NO- BAIL- OUT!!!

Like the Congressman said “Why don’t you all work more like Toyota or Honda?”

U.S. plant worker for Toyota…$26.00 hr. benefits per hr. $13.50
UAW worker for Big 3…..STARTING! $33.00 hr. benefits per hr. $22.50
UAW worker MAX PAY, $52.75 hr. and benefits are at $27.25 per hr.
and this is off the UAW pay plan for 2007, a buddy of mine just got hold of a book…

And that is just PAY… this book has all other extra pay, for over time, lost of meal, lost of day’s off, compensation’s for going to the Doctor, WOW… all you UAW member’s did not tell us all of your perks, and the book say’s all member are eligible at all times for all programs…

Maybe instead of a bail-out we need to review the UAW contracts, and adopt the Japs. pay plan…

scootness- you might recall that this IS America. We have the freedom to like/hate anything. I’m not an import lover/hater but am am not a domestic lover/hater. I hate crappy products. Why do Americans NEED to love the Big 3? This is one of those special cases where Americans are all about buying American, but what about so many other products? Do you hunt out cotton from America for your under t-shirts? Do you seek American-made toys? What about consumer electronics? No? Why not then? Because there are a lot of jobs at stake? I would love to see all of the haters if Walmart went under. Do you know how many people they employ and how many communities rely on them??

There are companies just like the Big 3 that lose market share and went bankrupt because of competition. The Big 3 shouldn’t get a free ride. Yes, the bailout was ridiculous and needed oversight and restrictions, but that’s already passed. At least the government is trying to do the right thing. Really they shouldn’t be doing ANYTHING. It’s the Big 3’s responsibility to police themselves.

Now I own 2 Toyotas at the moment, but have also owned domestics. You are definitely right on when you say Ford is heading down the right path and has greatly improved their products and quality. I just wonder why they didn’t do this 10 years ago when imports were really coming on strong? There should have been no reason for a crappy automaker like Kia to do so well.

Ford has been as reliable or better on their vehicles for 2 years now!
Based on what ?? An indepenedent Ford study and two years ?? PLEASE how about going 140 k with nothing more than routine mainenance ?
See what I mean If you dont like D3 and choose to buy a reliable car you should move to the country of that reliable cars origin… what an idiot

my dad has a sport trac with the 4.0l V6 with 180k on it and has only handled routine mantenance and repairs.

LOL, same old 1115 - still doesn’t get it… Amazing how the dumbest among us think they have all the answers.

Well youll need some answers pretty soon when GM stop selling Pontiac lol
Get a job at a real dealership real meaning foreign

My co worker had a Ford and the engine blew so my story cancels yours . Also when you factor in the current situation or look at resale values and reliability ratings over the last i dont know 15 years my point is valid and yours Inj and every other domestic humping jackasses is not

Since Chrysler is a [B]PRIVATELY OWNED COMPANY[/B] (unlike Ford and GM that are publicly traded companies) why should they get [B]PUBLIC[/B] funds for a bailout? Let Cerberus and Daimler-Benz bail them out!

Yeah, I hear ya trip5. I’ve never heard of any other vehicles except for Fords that have blown engines before. That’s why people choose imports over domestic, duh. It would be a shame if imports would ever end up having ball joint or control arm or even rust problems.

Please note the sarcasm.

Check the lists for problems per 1000 on the vehicles that Ford puts out! I don’t shop at walmart and You sir, are the idiot! As I said, you own a honda or a toyota or whatever non AMERICAN car you own! I work at a dealership and I see these vehicles everyday! I have been in the business 7+ years and have seen the constant improvments! I’m not saying that you have to love american cars, but just realize that everytime you buy others based on the fact that they are more reliable or efficient, YOU’RE WRONG!!! and you’re sending money overseas! IDIOT!

yeah and my coworker had a scion tC with a transmission that blew at 13,000 miles
so my story cancels yours back out again

Well yea they dont set homes on fire though http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/gm_truck_fires.html
I can copy and paste more articles if you like ..

And please tell me why the imports hold better resale values ? ? ?
Tell me why the D 3 are begging fo rmoney ? I
f anyone DESERVES money its Toyota and Honda for employing Americans and makeing superior long lasting reliable cars

There will always be some jackass like you on this board with your sarcasm but no evidence to disprove my point

Ill add you to the list of losers like Inj Commo JJT that guy adam with the glasses and dirty hat and all the others
thanks (please note my seriousness)

I will send my money to the company that makes the better more reliable product with a high resale value and that is not the D3
My mechanic had a Chevy that burned his house down My story is better than your bull**** story and I have an article showing the tendency for GM truck s to do so
Lets play ignition coil

ALSO! read this
http://wfmz.com/view/?id=583286
that tC was VERY safe eh? you know breaking in half and all
and no this is not the first instance i have seen of this happening.

your mechanic is a bull**** story
see how easy that was?
the ****ing transmission blew at 13,000 miles on a toyota piece of ****
sorry you cant accept it your poor imports do no wrong :’(

not to mention id go get a new mechanic if i were you
i guarantee hes a mechanic for your import pile, and thinks cause he can change the oil on a corolla, he can fix a chevy, and therefore performed his own “maintenence” which turned out to be wrong and as thus set the car on fire. Ive also seen an uncles vehicle go up in flames at the end of my driveway because he thought he was smart enough to change a carbeurator, and ended up using the entirely wrong one, leaving a pile of rusted metal and melted tires.

Dodd in his role as chairman of the Senate Banking Committee proposed a housing bailout to the Senate floor in June 2008 that would assist troubled subprime mortgage lenders such as Countrywide Financial in the wake of the United States housing bubble’s collapse, 2003 Dodd had refinanced the mortgages on his homes in Washington, D.C. and Connecticut through Countrywide Financial and had received favorable terms due to being placed in a “Friends of Angelo” program. Dodd received mortgages from Countrywide at allegedly below-market rates on his Washington, D.C. and Connecticut homes. Dodd has not disclosed the below-market mortgages in any of six financial disclosure statements he filed with the Senate or Office of Government Ethics since obtaining the mortgages in 2003.

tripleonefive, is ignorance truely bliss like they say it is?

you base your opinions on the worst 15 years of quality for the big 3 and ignore the advances they’ve made because it fits your opinions. you’re no better than those you ridicule.

by your logic toyotas all suck because my friend’s dad’s ‘89 toyota truck caught fire and his friend who was sitting in the truck in a wegman’s parking lot was burnt to death in said truck.

Please let me know the Tc’s Value vs a Cobalt or Saturn One in millions vs millions of D3 piles and maybe one that made it to 180 on a bull**** story doesnt add up
When you are done with that please let me know why why the imports hold better resale values ? ? ?
Tell me why the D 3 are begging fo rmoney ? I
Until you can answer those questions your point much like your existence is invalid

Get a better story It was a compact car vs an SUV and they were speeding Ill add you to the list

Oh know! I’m on tripleonefive’s list! What will I do now??? Every penny that Toyota and Honda make goes back to Japan! And they hold their value better because of idiots like you! You believe that they are better than they are and you pay for that idea! Likewise you believe that the “big 3″ are less quality and you don’t want to pay for them. You are, as I have said several times now, and I D I O T!!! You are like a Lemming, a follower… unable to see things for yourself. Open your eyes dude! You are contributing to the degredation of our country! It is idiots with attitudes like you that have gotten us into this situation.

You can’t even begin to imagine the domestic fallout if the “big 3″ collapse! It would be the worst thing America has ever seen! It would take an already beaten and battered economy and kill it for good! But you don’t think about your neighbors or anybody but yourself, so what the hell! If the big 3 collapse I bet you end up knowing at least 3 people directly affected by it. You will deny it, because that would mean admitting that you are wrong but you will know at least 3 people affected. You, and idiot, will know at least 3 people who lose jobs or take pay cuts or get laidoff or something! This industry affects everyone!

Meanwhile, I am looking forward to being on your list, with some other like-minded individuals who might have enough common sense to get out of the way of oncoming traffic! Idiot

LOL @ Idea Its unbiased proven fact(Check KBB and Nada which are used in US Courts oif law to determine a cars value) unlike your bs about D3 being equal
It is idiots with attitudes like you that have gotten us into this situation. Buy American no matter what bc you are american Contribute to your country and inferior products bec you are american Its tralier park Chevy driving Nascar loving Wife beating Budweiser drinking Mullet having Bowling on a Friday night people like yourself who made the D3 think they were god and now look at em HA I spit on you and them People I know where smart enough not to buy D3 cars and have careers (not jobs) that wont be affected and even if they were they have degrees and skillsets to get better unlike you.

Like minded ? sounds like you may believe in something more than patriotism hmmmm

A. To imply that you know anything about me is a joke.
B. You’re an idiot
C. You don’t know the first thing bout how those numbers are figured…Idiot! They are market based!!! If muppets like you go and pay more for them, then the price holds, if not it drops! You aern’t just an idiot, you’re a retard!
D. My JOB is great for me and all my friends have JOBS and they are great for them.
E. Your stupid feeling of entitlement will be your downfall as well as this countrys! You are a Lemming! You just repeat what you hear and have bought into the bs that is the foreign car industry!
F. Its idiots like you that don’t care about the working class and forget that the working class make everything…well..WORK! There is a delicate system that is at work and you don’t care! To say that you spit on people when there are real people involved makes me realize that I am dealing with a truly unreasonable piece of **** who needs to take a jump off a cliff!

And maybe you better ask your “friends” if they want you to speak for them. Any idiot saying anything like this would not represent me and my interests! Maybe your “friends” don’t want to try to be changing “careers” during this tough economic time! Or are you going to spit on them if and when they are down?

A. To imply that you know anything is a joke.

B. You’re an idiot (this should be A but I’ll cut you some slack)

C. Keep using every excuse you can think of to deny that imports are proven more reliable. You love this country so much you are blind. The US courts use literature I mentioned to value cars and imports are worth more meaning they are better and more reliable. If you look anywhere unbiased you will see the same

D. Your JOB sucks and you will probably be losing it and that is why you are so upset lol. I doubt you know 3 people let alone 3 people with JOBS (not careers but jobs ). Get a career and some skills and you wont have to worry about this crap and rely on the greedy D3 affecting your JOB (Not career but job)

E. My feeling of entitlement? For what feeling that I should drive a reliable car and not let faux patriotism decide what I drive. This country’s downfall is people like you! No skill sets or degrees just relying on factories for jobs. You are a Lackey and you just follow what people say and believe all the bull**** that the D3 are equal to the Japanese in quality bc of some faux study you saw on some FOMOCO commercial. I bought foreign bc like everyone else bc D3 was making crap and selling patriotism instead of cars. Once the Honda and Toyota products proved themselves then every smart American bought foreign and deny it all you want D3 build crap and people know it

F. It’s idiots like you that believe that once again believe the lies that D3 are telling and fall for their terrorist bull****! They are basically saying they f—ed up but you have to help us BC jobs are at stake I don’t want one single American (well maybe Injuraiv j/k) to lose their jobs. The working class are victims of this too but America as a whole should not let D3 get away with this!
Its really GM bc FOMOCO is selling brands and making an effort to change and said they don’t need the money but GM is behind and Chrysler is privetely owned

I do work and lI have a CAREER not job! I also pay too much taxes already and don’t want to see it going to a bunch of failed companies like D3. If D3 get 34 billion for building crap then Toyota and Honda should get double that for making fuel efficient reliable cars and for making them in the US when they really don’t have to and shouldnt !

I spit on D3 and people like you who have helped them right into the poorhouse by not demanding more from the cars your drive
You should jump off a bridge you probably have nothing to live for anyway if you believe in D3!

I am right, You’re AN idiot! Not “a idiot” Assbag! Learn the language! I checked with my 7 year old to make sure that was right!
Ok muppet! I am not losing my job! You are sick individual! I can’t believe that you are just totally ok with factory workers losing their jobs! You are out of touch with reality! You make me sick.
D3 as you call it isn’t asking for bail-out you and the media are asking for that! D3 is asking for bridge loans. Loans get paid back dumbass! Why not help them keep our economy moving and keep people working while designing new vehicles that hopefully, someday might meet your requirements? Instead of offering your assbag opinion on how bad and why the D3 suck why not offer come quality coments that show that you give a flying **** about humanity and your fellow American.

LOl @ checked with your 7 year old That explains why you have a JOB and not a career
I said “an” not “a” and you said “and” but you can consult with your brat and see if that is proper grammar
Muppet lol
When you can show me a D3 car that is more reliable and has a higher resale than a comparable import from Toyota or Honda then ill listen to you, until then play with your Muppet and brat

I scrolled back up and looked any you’re still an idiot! What you are saying is rediculous! Now you’re claiming to know about my 7yr old and are gonna try to bully her too? Grow a pair! The fabled car that you speak of is the Ford Fusion vs the Toyota Camry. Read any consumer report type magazine and it will tell you that in the “Problems per 1000″ surveys, the Fusion wins! It was also named highest in initial quality! But you’re right…Not! Try reading anything that doesn’t just worship jap crap and you might learn somthing! Now try ton F-150 assbag! Go to fordvehicles.com and watch the video! Or google “tundra tailgate issues” or “tundra camshaft issues”, if you take a look at the facts, you will see that you are wrong. You will be unable to admit it but the facts will be right in front of you.

Clearly you and I are never going to agree on anything, but I don’t understand how you can just say “let them burn” when so much of our economy relies on them. Wether you like them or not, you have to be able to see that they directly employ or indirectly employ sooo many people that it would be devistating to have them collapse!

tripleonefive, grow up. stop being so narrow minded. I find it hard to beilieve (based on your comments which ooze ignorance and stupidity) that you have any education at all. you clearly dont know what you’re talking bout. You’re not up to date on the current quality of american vehicles or foriegn vehicles. you have no clue how fragile our economy is and how interdependant it is on the big 3. And you clearly have no sense of class or humility. without those factory workers you so eagerly spit(and other excrement) on you wouldn’t be able to enjoy even the smallest of the luxuries in your pitiful life. as an ENGINEER I work with factory line workers EVERY DAY, and they work every bit as hard as anyone I know. thier job is not glamorous, but it is necessary and even I take great offense to your indecency toward them. So it would be much appreciated if you would stop repeating things you read in magazine. go out, do some REAL research, and form your own opinions. it’s morons like you who blindly follow the populous that are destroying the country.

Folks, 115 is just an uber-troll, your arguing with him won’t change a thing. He gets off on this crap.

Please don’t feed the trolls.

I have provided real research and I look in magazines that I have cited such as NADA and KBB The current quality of American cars is not proven and their resale value is not equal
I spit on the CEO’s of GM so you need to read and stop making things up in a post to make it sound good bc I will expose you.
You can call me whatever you want but you have no proof to back up what you typed and you are just like inj and that other idiot saying things wiith no substance and a bunch of name calling
Inj will be getting ON the UE line when his sunfire dealership closes
Now for research show me some valid proof saying that D3 cars are more reliable and have a higher resale value than comparable Japanese cars.
Until you can do that shut your mouth

Tripleonefive, I bet you’re sooo much cooler online than you are in real life. I just heard an analyst on the news say that it doesn’t matter wether your “white collar” or “blue collar” you will be affected by what happens to the “big 3″. “Education” and “degrees” and “skill sets” won’t save you! Get with the program and quit fooling yourself.

ScatMess,

You bet I’m “sooo”? much cooler online than in real life? “Too”, “Soo” ask your brat if that’s proper grammar
Yea who needs an “Education” ,“A Degree” or “Skills” I can be just like you lol

My CAREER is secure and like I said before even if it wasnt I have the three things listed above so I would have no issues finding something better

I’m not some high school dropout who got a job in a factory and though he was hot **** for geting paid over 20 per hour then when the factory closes have nothing

The factory workers are not the problem its the Execs and idiots like you and Injuraiv who back D3 when they make inferior products

I heard an analyst on the news say you are a f—ing idiot

LOL, he must be so much cooler in real life, because online he’s a geek.

Dude, read all the magazines you want. Those of us who live the life know the real deal.

Yea and the real deal is Honda and Toyota make better cars then the D3
Im sure a Pontiac dealer knows more that the US Courts of Law
Bring a warm jacket to the soup line
If you are not online in the next couple of months I will just guess that you had to sell your computer

You’re right, there is no practical time to use “too” assbag? (sarcasm alert)
As for your job, you are probably right, flipping burgers won’t be directly affected. That is a very good skill-set to have! Its all in the wrist I suppose! Glad you can handle it.

THE big three can ROT IN HELL.

Well seems that you dont know the difference btw a CAREER and job Burger flipping is a JOB which is probably what your 7 y/o will end up doing since their daddy got laid off bc he is an uneducated jerk off
I have never and never will be a burger flipper bc instead of dropping out of High school and having a 7 year old I chose to educate myself
Also due to education I read and that is why I stay away from low lives like yourself. You and Inj should educate yourselves and buy Japanese bc research has proven they are better than D3 cars
Honda and Toyota should get more 30 billion