Comments on: Rejected: Senate fails to pass Big Three bailout

By: bghewy

bghewy — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:55:37 +0000

Why do people keep bringing Ford into this equation, Ford is currently able to sustain itself, yes they asked for help but if you all remember they were not going to get any of the 14billion, it was all going to GM and Chrysler. And why the hell is everyone only bagging GM. This patriotism shit is getting boring. If a company cannot stand on its own two feet then it does not deserve to survive. The government should not use tax payers money to fund publicly listed companies. Here in Australia the deal is this. The government has set up a GREEN CAR FUND. For every 2 dollars spent on an environmentally friendly project they will assist with 1 dollar. This is not bailing out companies but helping them to produce something that will benefit everyone in the long term. This project has so far seen Toyota announce they will build Hybrid Camry’s in their Melbourne factory and Ford is going to now keep open their Engine factory in Geelong to produce the awesome I6 engine and make it Euro4 compliant. Maybe US should try something similar. Dont just give them a hand out so that the current team who is mis managing the company can continue to mis manage. Also dont forget that the companies going under will affect more than just the US economy think of all the divisions around the world. And i still say NO BAILOUT.

By: 1c3d0g

1c3d0g — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:13:23 +0000

The f*cking UAW is going to sink North America’s auto industry…it’s time for heads to roll!

By: miket

miket — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:30:56 +0000

@1115

Resale value is also based on available units on the market. The D3 for years moved TONS of product out to rental companies, (to inflate their sales figures) who turn them all over 2 times a year. Used domestics are everywhere. The J2 did not take that road, making used Toyota’s and hondas scarce, this inflating their resale.

Not to imply that quality plays no role in resale……but the largest gap between the manufacturers is supply and demand.

By: NRG

NRG — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:10:18 +0000

The bailout, if it happens, is just a bandaid. The Big Three will fail anyways sometime next year. 2009, according to all the experts will be far worse than this year. Kind of ironic that we showed the Japanese car makers how to make cars way back when. Now the Big 3 produce garbage and are getting their butts kicked and have been for quite sometime. Of course we all know that. As for the UAW, it’s time for them to go. They serve no purpose anymore.

Anyone else sick of reading about this bailout? Congress either needs to shit or get off the pot.

By: tripleonefive

tripleonefive — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:29:46 +0000

I love the stories of how one Japanese car failed compared to the millions of people dissatisfied with the D3 vehicles
The proof shows (resale reliabiltiy on KBB NADA for the 1000th time) that the J2 (Honda and Toyota) are better than the D3. There is NO factual evidence that the D3 cars match or even come close to the Japanese on quality and there wont be bc the cars simply dont

Anytime I hear some D3 loving jerk state that I will post and ask for proof bc saying that is a blatant LIE!
What people fail to realize is the Japanese had to prove that their cars where reliable and that took over a decade. They kept up the models changes, improved the quality and it shows today. The Koreans had to do the same and they are improving so much that they got a 33% bump in resale on KBB.

The D3 will have to have to do the same and should not get a free ride which is what you are saying by decietfully stating that they match the Japanese (J2)in quality. D3 have to start from scratch and in 10 years we will know if their cars are as reliable & worthy of consideration by the american public.

As for the bailout GOOD ! Honda and Toyota make cars in the States when they really shouldnt and dont have to. They have made reliable fuel efficient cars with high resale values and if anyone should get some $$$ it should be them NOT 3 companies that make crap and have greedy CEO’s and Unions

By: Struggle

Struggle — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:26:52 +0000

Like the Dem’s will do anything to salvage this country, please. All career politicians, regardless of party have one thing on their minds, what’s in it for them.

The UAW is like cancer. I can see ‘some’ benefit, but that was years ago. The greed and corruption have reared their ugly heads ad now they will pay the piper.

Like one of the other posters said, 2/3 of a biscuit is better than none. I’d rather take a cut in pay than be jobless.

Agreed that no tangible business plan was introduced, which personally I would also raise an eyebrow at the viability of any loans to said companies.

And yes, those folks that didn’t vote on this, cowards.

By: bauer100

bauer100 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:36:10 +0000

its not their job to find me a job, but they can help open possibilites. Granholm, governor of Michigan, “tries” to entice companies(with little success mind you) to come to Michigan and provide jobs. that is what the government needs to do. or in their case, keep good jobs stateside. but thats a whole other issue. i dont want to “lounge” around all day, believe me, but a job at walmart is not going to take care of a family and pay the bills.

By: HoosierHero

HoosierHero — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:25:15 +0000

bauer100- I feel for you and everyone else out there, but it’s not the government’s job to find everyone a job. You need to do what you have to do to stay competitive. If you want a government job that is fed to you move to China. As for lounging around of my tax dollars, you wouldn’t be the first nor the last…

By: yarddog82abn

yarddog82abn — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:13:22 +0000

FACT THE GOP WANT’S TO GO AWAY WITH THE UNIONS,

THE UAW IS THE REASON OF NO BAIL-OUT….

THE UAW HAS TO GIVE IN! THEY HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS, IF 1 OF THE BIG 3 FALLS IT IS ALL THE UAW’S FALT………

By: bauer100

bauer100 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:53:48 +0000

its easy to go back to school. but where are the jobs? i have an associates degree and could easily get a bacholors. now what? i cant sell my house and move, you know, the dead housing market. if the government isnt going to help the Big2, they need to find alternatives for those who will have no job. if they want to extend unemployement benifits, fine. i will ride it out on everyone elses dollar until things improve. the line workers are not the only ones that will be jobless. there are also the engineers and technicians too.

By: tob

tob — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:48:01 +0000

Dear democrat dickheads. I can’t wait until all of your corrupt ass douche bags get in power. Who then will be left to blame? Maybe they can call in gay to work and get a free pass. Its a big shit sandwich and everyone has to take a bite – even the UAW. Sometime one makes the shit sandwhich and other times they have to eat it – UAW time to take the chef hat off and get a knife and fork.

By: JerkStoreAssistantManager

JerkStoreAssistantManager — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:39:18 +0000

The UAW is at it again!
I think they may actually be supported by the foreign manufacturers, think about it

By: hangonbig3

hangonbig3 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:26:21 +0000

Hey DrFill…call DrKevorkian and have him help you out.

By: mayer_ray_nagin

mayer_ray_nagin — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:14:33 +0000

Said it before and I’ll say it again: The UAW needs to kiss GOP butt too.

For all the union hating going on (much of which I agree with), I am in management at a large corp, and there are plenty of times I wish we were unioized given how unfairly the crappy senior management decisions impact the lower levels.

The GOP-haters out there can railon the GOP for this all they want, but the UAW’s incessant and active GOP-hatred is a major contributor to this decision, believe me.

By: DBro

DBro — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:14:25 +0000

How are you monkeys blaming this on the republicans, in a democrat majority Senate and Congress? And yeah, DrFill, the Union did everything they could to stop this from happening…a year after they should have. They waited until THE LAST FOUR WEEKS to start making concessions, is that how long the Big Three have been hurting? The Big Three will be fine after bankruptcy, but you cannot blame avoid blaming a poorly run company, and a whiny, thieving union without any sense of helping the company one ounce before taking absolutely everything they can get by force. Yeah, damn republicans for not wanting to throw money at people for sucking at their own jobs.

By: terk184

terk184 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:12:31 +0000

Bauer
The figures represent cost structure/hour for labor to assemble a finished product. Yes it includes all benefits etc. because if it didn’t you wouldn’t have an accurate # to compare. Who do you think pays for those benefits? The $$s spent on production will always go to the entity that can do the best job for the least amount of money. At $73/hr. that no longer includes the American manufacturers. If you don’t want your jobs to go to foriegn car companies than you’d better learn to compete and that means lower wages to stay competitive. They have us by the balls because they do a better job for less, and it’s really not a concession because the current wages should never have been aggreed to in the 1st place. These wages were coerced through militancy and extortion (give us what we want or we’ll strike). The end result is what we have today, sick companies with a bloated cost structure.

By: bigjimid

bigjimid — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:11:35 +0000

13 did not vote! What the hell are you in office for? “These decisions might result in upset Americans, so I’m just going to sit back and not participate,” said the thirteen. That’s pretty much slapping everyone in the face and saying “You’re not important enough to care about.”

By: HoosierHero

HoosierHero — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:48:05 +0000

bauer100- we rely on a lot of countries for products now. I think the Big 3 hurts because there are so many people with family working with them in some capacity. The goal should be to get Americans trained in better, high tech jobs. As we become more sophisticated and educated, then our lower manufacturing jobs go overseas to developing countries. I think it’s good that we won’t have to eventually rely on our manufacturing base so much. We are already primarily a service economy. So everyone go out there, get some more education in something that interests you (besides manufacturing- c’mon people…), and quit worrying that the Big 3 are the lifeblood of this country. It simply isn’t true anymore.

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:44:42 +0000

I would like the names of the senators that did not vote… those people need to be booted from office.

By: bauer100

bauer100 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:33:35 +0000

$47? seriously? it drives me nuts when people dont state the actually dollar amount per hour, but lump in benifits and other stuff to get a higher number. people really fail to see the big picture and its mostly people outside the midwest. we are becoming a country that is becoming dependant on foreign companies/goods. that scares me that asia and what not has us by our balls. if anyone thinks that is a good thing, thats just outragous.

By: leftlanedriver

leftlanedriver — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:21:30 +0000

Most agree that GM, Ford and Chrysler’s failure is a combination of bad management, overinflated union demands, and questionable products produced by the Big 3 in the mid 1980′s through the late 1990′s. In the last 8 years, most of the products produced by the Big 3 are much better and match the quality of the imports. Yes, the Big 3 bashers will make inane comments about how Big 3 quality has been poor the last decade. However, most of those folks haven’t driven a domestic during that time and apply history to make their arguments. We can do the same for Japanese, Korean, and Germans. I ‘m from the Northeast…I can remember the 1970′s and early 1980′s Japanese “rust buckets” that didn’t last 6 years without the body falling apart. Does anyone remember the Hyundai Excel? My extended family owns a mix of foreign and domestic cars, all bought the last 7 years, some good, some bad. A 2003 Acura TL – 5 speed transmission blew at 70,000, the famous slug problem of the 3.0 liter Toyota in our Camry at 85K, a 2001 Jeep GC with the rear differential shot at 35K. On the flip side, a 1999 Buick Park Avenue…150K miles and no problems, 2004 Infinity G35 – great except the prematuring brake pads, a Chevy Tahoe with 93K, another great vehicle.

I am not a big fan of the auto bailout especially since we bailed out the banks for no good reason, but given the state of the economy it would be wise. For all the domestic haters, yes the bankruptcy will occur but it will cost all of us If the companies fail, part suppliers will be affected and may backrupt too, resulting in higher prices for the beloved Camrys that are built here in the US in the short run. We will also indirectly pay for the failed companies when pensions are moved over to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation – you know that federal agency that salvaged TWA and other pension funds. Its not funded by taxpayers but by premiums set by Congress..thats a laugh. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the PBCG ask for more money because it can’t handle the burden of all the retirees added to the rolls…

As for Republican and Democrat debate – enough already. The President may outline a budget and request funds but CONGRESS (or more appropriately the congressional aids since Congressman are paid to get nothing accomplished) who write, enact, and ultimately fund the laws. Both Republican and Democrats are at fault…Republicans that spent way to much money in early part of this century and Democrats who have done nothing for the last 2 years – I can still remember Nancy Pelosi telling us how things were going to change within the first 100 days of the Democrats taking office…hmm, business as usual in Congress the last 2 years.

By: terk184

terk184 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:49:37 +0000

Dear UAW Mongoloids,

Any job that pays $47/hour (as opposed to $73/hour) is bettter than no job at all.
Any VIABLE company with a sound business plan and a competitive cost structure that can afford to pay you said $47 is better than no company at all.
Even my dog knows 2/3s of a biscuit is better than no biscuit at all.
Pardon me, but your lack of education regarding the concepts of sound business practices is showing.

The Terk Man

By: 72thunderbird

72thunderbird — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:32:15 +0000

God… is not BIG THREE, is BIG TWO! Ford is not involved in this. This is very unfair with Ford!

By: Northshore357

Northshore357 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:06:47 +0000

The CEOs went to Washington DC a couple of weeks ago, to directly appeal to congress for money. The CEOs were told to submit a plan to Congress saying how they are going to restructure and use the money that they are asking for. Congress told them they want to see a plan and then they will show them the money. Where is the plan? You cannot solely point the finger of blame at Congress.

Come on seriously how hard is it to come up with a plan? If GM and Chrysler actually create the plan that Congress ask for, there is a better chance that they could get the money.

By: howsmydriving

howsmydriving — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:43:05 +0000

Union reps are such stupid thugs, they negotiate workers right out of their jobs. But this truth still begs the question of how Ford is able to better survive.

By: Ramatai

Ramatai — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:59:42 +0000

I think Ford will survive I hope that they do. As a Brit who watch the Thatcher, Unions and appalling management destroy our motor industry, I think this is a sad day. I find it staggering that a company of GMs size can fail so badly. It takes a lot of people to destroy a company, to blame one party be it management, unions or staff is unreasonable. Everyone has let these companies down from the top to the bottom, from the unions to the politicians. The US motor industry was as isolated product wise as the Swedish one due to manipulation of legislation. This created a false market and that hasn’t made things worse.

By: AnonymousCoward

AnonymousCoward — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:40:06 +0000

Merry Christmas, UAW suckers! It’s the last Holiday you feast on the behalf of a US auto manufacturer.

By: cobra32

cobra32 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:11:43 +0000

History has shown that once a auto company files bankruptcy they go bye bye. There is no restructing and no coming back. Customers do not buy their second most expensive ticket item next to a house from companies that file bankruptcy. This is not a video game where you hit the reset button. We will lose this industry just like the brits and its gone no coming back. The auto industry will become a thing of the past. This is the final straw that backs the camels back no longer will ameria be number one in anything. Because we deserve not to be number one if we let one of our own falter. Another reason we will fall is because we let our govt go out of its way to hurt American companies and drive them oversea. Our govt does everything they can to help foriegn companies with tax breaks to build here. While our govt goes out of its way to make it very difficult for american companies to build new plants here. You import lovers and all you people unhappy that someone is making a better living than you. I hope that the next job you get is a 9 to 5 job at Walmart so you can only get 39 hours a week and at the most 9 dollars an hour, try buying a used car let alone a house on that pay, not to mention no medical because that is the only jobs that will be left.in this country when the gop is done with us. Have fun and merry christmas all you haters of someone making better than because all you self centered SOB’s need a Merry Christmas.

By: gugy

gugy — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:30:15 +0000

This is not good,

besides the fact, I refuse to buy any American piece of crap cars.

2009 is going to be very, very difficult. Sucks!

By: A4

A4 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:55:35 +0000

WHAT THE HELL SENATE

By: desertdriver

desertdriver — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:55:21 +0000

I’m not anti Big Three, however, I’m strongly opposed to the unions. With bankruptcy, the Big Three can get rid of union obligations, severely restructure (e.g. reduce the number of US market brands, dealer networks, maybe hire some Toyota managers, etc.), and emerge stronger. There is also more accountability and transparency with bankruptcy.

By: miket

miket — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:49:46 +0000

No-one wants to see GM just disappear, although I’d like to see the UAW go pretty quick. I’m not really anti-anything. I have had 2 fords, a chevy and a Jeep and all had problems within 80k. I do all the maintainence, even usually going overboard sometimes. I have had no problems with my Honda’s or my wife’s toyota. That’s not to say we wont, but that’s just personal experience.

By: footdoc67

footdoc67 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:46:32 +0000

I have deep sorrow for the family members of the auto workers. There are going to be very difficult times ahead for all. However, what will the bailout be if there still is no consumer for the product? Nothing more than an overinflated unemployment check. Maintaining these companies will be a false sense of employment. They will end up at the unemployment office, eventually, joining the rest in America that have already fallen on hard times. Sorry, but true.

By: Lau

Lau — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:44:55 +0000

C6, I sense a wave of import-lovers coming at you with full force! Just wait, someone will point out their opinion and state it as fact. “GM is horrible” blah blah blah. GM isn’t horrible. It’s management is.

By: C6Racer

C6Racer — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:02:41 +0000

I don’t know how much more of the UAW’s whining I can take. I’d rather see GM go bankrupt than see those babies having jobs. Sounds like that’s what might happen, but at least I’ll be happy that the UAW will have many jobless members.

Screw everyone who hates GM. They should not be allowed to have a voice in this because all they want is to see it go down and not negotiate like dignified people. GM vehicles have NEVER, EVER given me any problems. It is solely the fault of the consumer who fails to maintain their cars properly. All the the GM vehicles in my family have made it to at least 200,000 miles. The only reason they didn’t go further is because we decide we want new cars. As for me, I plan to put AT LEAST 500k on the odometer of my truck. It’s at 160k and still gets 24 mpg on the highway.
Our Honda’s never last. The only import that has survived in my family is my sister’s ’91 4Runner, but even that needed a valve job and head resurfacing at 130k, and my brother’s ’94 325i. The I-6 is about to throw the main bearings and the trusty GM 4L30-E automatic it has is still going strong.

By: miket

miket — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:49:01 +0000

UAW – Full pay ’till our last day!!!

By: elviososa

elviososa — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:17:52 +0000

Finally…..Garbage Motor has to go!

By: atoms

atoms — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:00:06 +0000

HA kinda saw that coming

By: idrinorbarsaku

idrinorbarsaku — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:58:03 +0000

wow look who fncked things up again…the republicans!! i cant believe this didn’t get passed! i thought republicans were the ones talking all that patriotism bullsh!t. this just shows how patriotic republicans are toward their own country, they won’t even help their own economy. but i guess those of you who didn’t vote for bush(both terms) already knew that. I can’t wait till OBAMA starts. the GOP is running this country into the ground faster than you can say F U C K YOU!!!

By: DetroitWatcher

DetroitWatcher — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:46:03 +0000

Congress demanded that GM cut their operational costs down in order to attain viability. Is it too much to ask the UAW to do the same?

By: pzimet

pzimet — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:39:00 +0000

The GOP fucks up another one. Surprise surprise…thought we’d learned by now, THEY’RE SCREWING THINGS UP.

By: Xile

Xile — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:36:48 +0000

Congrats to all of you Republican dickheads!!!!
Way to go. Just when you thought things couldn’t get worse, GOP continues to surprise.
Now go drape yourself in the American flag, pop in that Lee Greenwood cd and drive your Hyundais back home.

By: DrFill

DrFill — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:35:03 +0000

BTW, the UAW did everything they could to make sure it didn’t happen
I don’t care either way, but not getting the vibe they wanted to deal in good faith
Thought they could get the money first, and talk later
Even Washington ain’t that stupid!

DrFill

By: DrFill

DrFill — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:31:48 +0000

My problem is they’ll use the economy as an excuse for failing
The economy didn’t kill GM. Or the Unions. Or the Japanese. Or the Republicans
GM killed GM
It just gave their self-inflicted cancer a little nitrous, that’s all

Unless Obama can walk in and stroke any size check he wants unilaterally, GM will have to make it 2 months on it’s own before they get anything funds from Washington

At the end of the day, no one really likes GM

I’m not keeping the porch light on for them

Time to join Disco, Coleco, and Rudolph Giuliani in the nation’s rearview mirrror

DrFill

By: somedude

somedude — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:22:39 +0000

tough times ahead