In the immortal words of Frank Barone: “Holy Crap”

Hmmm… Hamburger nation? Takes on a whole new meaning now, sort of like, would y’all like fries with that… Well, we are a service sector economy are we not? I don’t think this is the kind of service-based employment most people have in mind. Our educational systems and/or the aggregated skills base of the workforce in general do not support a broad upper-end knowledge-based services economy of sufficient scale to offset the loss in high paying jobs currently being realized across the whole economy. Furthermore, these jobs will probably never be replaced. What does this imply for domestic demand going forward.

The current economic morass is far reaching in scope, breadth and depth. In fact, some might go as far as stating that when all is said and done the US economy will have been radically restructured. When growth returns fewer will be able to participate in the expansion. No, a College/University education is no guarantee as 80% of most degree/diplomas being awarded have little value in a high paying knowledge intensive service based economy. In other words, forget the BA’s in the social sciences etc. – don’t even get me started about undergraduate and graduate business degrees!

So what are the implications? It’s hard for most people to get financing now. How is domestic demand going to be affected when overall employment income is reduced? What does this imply for the automotive sector and more specifically for enthusiasts; the affordability and/or breadth of product offered in the market? Hence, Utility people – Utility! The future…

DB9;-)

PS. Happy Friday….;-)

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The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word ‘crisis.’ One brush stroke stands for danger; the other for opportunity. In a crisis, be aware of the danger – but recognize the opportunity. John F. Kennedy

what you talkin’ about DB9 ? just STFU and buy a GM car , its you patriotic duty !

you’ve hit the nail square with the hammer DB9

What about toy-yo-DAA cuting 18,000 workers in the U.S. that’s 60% of there workers.
Where is that story LLN?
I read that om automotivenews and motortrend this morning.
Check there websites and updade yours.
The Big3 still employ more people than the fu*king japs.
BUY AMERICAN.

Am I the only one who sees a problem when it comes to the Chrysler math? 32,000 lost jobs plus their present workforce of 56,600 equals 88,600 total. That’s more than the end of 2004 total of 84,375 and they say the 32,000 cuts were since 2007. So, did they increase their workforce some 2,000 plus jobs between ‘05 and ‘07 or should I just have a beer, watch the truck race and wait until Battlestar Galactica comes on?

lol – thanks Scratchy:-))) See yesterday’s post under VW – I all ready did;-) So when are you going to buy yours:-)) Hey, A Ford counts too… A Chrysler, well that would be masochistic…

DB9

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“I sometimes think that the saving grace of America lies in the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans are possessed of two great qualities- a sense of humor and a sense of proportion.” Franklin D. Roosevelt

And look where GM is now with the help of US taxpayers money: GM 16.2 billion. If people have pity for GM then they need more neighbors like No More Bilking for GM. Hell, the Big 2.0005 are loving ever minute of this workforce reduction under the sky-is-falling ruse…taxpayers are such fools, and these corporations know it.

By George, DB9 has got it.

The current stagnancy in the US and global auto market should accelerate convergence in the automotive industry at a geometric pace. We may see a few basic drivetrain and chassis platforms shared by most manufacturers. In turn that convergence will free up cash. Cash that can be used to develop alternative fuel technologies.

In their current state the manufacturers lack the finances, at a time when the most needed it, not because they failed to make what consumers wanted but because they failed to make what consumers really needed.

With greater industry convergence the prime objective for consumers will be utility. Any long-term taxpayer borne assistance should require development and production of products with long-term utility. By the same logic taxpayers don’t subsidize public housing in gated communities with 10,000 square foot homes.

Even the traditional concept of buying cars could be relegated to the history books.

Nissan-Renault has embarked on project that will first be implemented on a large scale in Israel in 2011. Consumers would pay a reduced price for a plug-in electric car, subsidized by government (read gas taxes) and the corresponding utilities. The novelty is that the car would come with a Lifetime Warranty, with the requirement that the consumer would be contractually obligated to enter into a battery pack lease. The Li-Ion battery packs would need to be swapped out every 6-8 months.

GM claims the Chevy Volt is being designed to have drivetrains swapped out when more technically advanced systems become available.

It is really analogous to the contracts we have with a cell phone providers in the U.S.. When the technology has sufficiently advanced you re-sign a contract for service, received a subsidized phone (subsidized through monthly service fees) or move to another carrier and sign a contract with them. This is why no one pays to have a cell phone repaired for reason of defect these days. They just re-sign and get a new one.

Will convergence in the automotive world totally end individuality so that we are all driving Soviet style FIAT 124/ LADA 1200s? Probably not. Just as with cell phones we should still see a fair amount of personalization of the car of the future. The money freed up by shared drivetrains and chassis systems could promote widespread proliferation of programs like Volvo’s Custom Build and BMW’s Indivdual.

Sure there will be the Teslas and other niche products out there coming from the Porsches of this world. But those products could become about as common as the diamond encrusted Nokia Vertu cell phone.

athens, you mention contracts for cell phones, what about pre-paid cell phones??? Boost mobile, WHERE YOU AT? lol

And yet they still employ more in the US than your import makers.

When all is said, I don’t care if the Fusion is built in Mexico or if the Camry is built in Kentucky (or wherever). What’s more important is who supports more American workers and families and that the domestic brands.

DB9 a round of applause for you. Good one mate.

There are a lot of sides to this and a lot of opinions to boot. I still say that the biggest downfall of the Big 3 had NOT been quality or pricing, but rather product offering. The last American car that I owned was a 1991 Taurus SHO. For years after I bought that car, none of the Big 3 have produced a car (sedan or wagon) that represented all that made the SHO my type of car. I know I’m repeating what others have said, but the Big 3 focused solely on trucks, SUVs and CUVs. I honestly believe that they handed the card market to the imports on a silver platter.

Having said that, by starting to adopt their EURO car platforms, I do see some real hope for recovery, at least with Ford and GM.

Ford’s Euro offerings with the their version of the Focus, the Kuga CUV and the Mondeo are such strong offerings that I believe they could take back import buyers, which they have not been able to do with too traditional Ford products like the American Focus, the Edge or the Fusion. Yes, those cars are selling but I think it’s mostly to repeat Ford buyers, not to a significant number of former import buyers. (I could honestly see myself owning a Ford Mondeo wagon if a version of that were offered in US without “American tweeking” like Ford did when the brought the 1st Gen Mondeo here as a Contour. Did you learned you lesson there, Ford?)

GM had started by converting most of Saturn to the Euro derivatives. I like Saturn as a whole but they don’t go quite high end enough with options for my taste – bad choice, GM. Also, Saturn just hasn’t drawn the customers int (really don’t know why). The Euro Insignia could be the first major step to stabilizing GM in NA (wagon and hatch models please).

Bottom line. I comes down to the product planners and senior management. They are the ones who have committed the most mistakes in this race. They are the ones that need to own up to their failures and ultimately, they are the ones that are going to make or break these companies. If customers don’t see the appeal of the product (price and quality aside), they aren’t going to buy it.

ricky_b:

My last American made car (save for engine and transaxle) was a 1990 SHO. Coincidence you say?

It is so hard to believe that the same company which made THAT car in 1990 is NOW only capable of pawning off bloated behemoths (1/2 ton heavier) with similar performance capabilities and no better fuel economy.

It’s even harder to digest that this is the same company that offers the near BMW quality lithe Mondeo, a top seller in its segment in Europe for the past few years. The same company that took the Box out of Volvo, particularly with the upcoming S60.

It’s incredible that it is the company which hired people like Ian McCallum to design the new Jaguar XF before it was sold to Tata.

I guess the Big Three are still convinced that American consumers still want to be SUPERSIZED.

Truly sad.

Now all those people are either committing crimes, on public assistance, or working for $9.00/hour at Wal-Mart.

You a-holes who only buy foreign and despise American car companies, you can be proud of youselves now.

Teahead:

Would it be unpatriotic to be disloyal to a dictator who gave his subjects what he thought they should have when he wanted to give it to them?

We should thank our heavens for the foreign automotive competition that is equipped to build cars which average person can truly use rather than what they are forced fed to believe they should want.

Digesting news and suggestions from the public, I got really confused. SO now we should stop buying American (but not UAW) made Hondas and Toyotas and concentrate on Korean made Chevy (ughm Daewoo) to help our domestic economy? There is nothing said in the article about employment or losses of employment at GM & Ford Korean and Chinese facilities. As a matter of fact just in November GM sucked in 300 mils into purchasing factory in Russia. That would be increase of GM workforce in Russia, wouldn’t it?
I am feel for UAW guys who lost their job, by the same token I feel for banking and investment company employees who lost their jobs in NYC. However, investment company’s employees to get their jobs had to complete at least undergraduate education (usually grad school) and be somewhat hard working to get there. What requirement was to be in UAW? Having a parent or other relative to bring you in union hall or near by pub to meet bosses?

Yep, economy is in the crapper and will be there for near (or even not near) future, but it is not because public stopped buying domestic labeled trucks and cars: good number of them were already screwed somewhere else.

As a nation we will have to learn to waste less and enjoy what we CAN afford on our paycheck, not extensive credit card debt. And whoever mentioned that level of education sucks in the country is right – it is. Especially selected by “native” students. All science classes in our universities, which are the best in the world, are filled with Asians. And university professors are stating that DOMESTIC student body is ill prepared for any scientific or engineering course of study in university. Till folks wake up and smell the roses we will be marching into our combined oblivion.

teahead, are you braindead mate!? for real now.. wtf is wrong with you people!?.. it’s like most of you turned in to NMOFGM groupies… could you ****ing please stop spilling that patriotic **** all over the place!? aren’t you fed up with this b/s religion allready!? who the **** do you think you are pointing fingers at people who made the best choices they could for themselfs and for theyr families!?

You can ****ing seem to get enough of yourselfs licking Detroit balls and calling yourself patriots… you swallowed theyr **** for so many years that now when they come begging for money and saying it’s you’re responsability to save theyr businesses and theyr workers you start pointing fingers at eachothers and keep swalloing ****… are you ****ing braindead!?.. since when paying the billis for a private company and theyr head assholes is “your patriotic duty”!?.. did GM or any other Detroit top dog threw money at ill US business when they were on top of theyr game!?.. they would fire all of your redneck asses in a blink of an eye if they could and if there would be money to be made out of it..

You’re so biased it’s not even funny.. you feel that because it’s american is your duty to help them… so is 95% of the inmate population in US.. why don’t you help them!? they are american too.. and they also provide jobs in the form of prison staff .. half of you areound here turned in to clueless, brainless rednecks lately.. spilling b/s religion around like your lives depended on it..

If you feel like eating more ****, from GM, Ford, whatever.. feel free to do it.. but stop throwing it in anyone else’s face.

Effing miraculous: GM to say, ‘more aid or bankruptcy’

@Zaraza

I’m glad you spoke out as you did…many people are misinformed and are too quick to point fingers

For me, the problem that US automakers have is that they do not have a competitive product (if at all) in the market I shop for. I shop for a small, but powerful hatchback (ie – a hot hatch).

Chrysler doesn’t offer anything in that market. Neither does Ford (though, their new Fiesta might be worth a look at when it arrives). GM does, but the Saturn Astra is quite the pathetic POS compared to a Subaru WRX STi, or a VW GTI, or a Mazdaspeed3.

The day that US automakers can provide a competitive product in the market I shop in… is the day I’ll *consider* them. But they WILL have to compete and win it terms of material quality, interior/exterior design, ergonomics, reliability, and performance.

CADDY-V.
-As much of a ricer fan as I am I agree with you. If I’m gonna read the news about the auto industry I wanna hear the good and bad about EVERYONE. If Toyota’s going down I wanna know. I know Toyota and Honda make damn good cars but I also know that they’re hurting really bad. Please, tell us everything!

BTW, where is NMOFGM? He got the pink slip last week?

(sorry, been out most of the weekend).

Athens – Thanks for confirming that I’m not the only one.

American auto companies are being give an opportunity to reinvent themselves and reintroduce themselves to the American public. I hope that they’re learned that the American public has truly become diverse in the past 30yrs and that if they don’t find a way to understand and embrace the diverse landscape, they’ll go the way of the dodos.

I cannot bring myself to feel sympathy for companies that have relentlessly and ruthlessly outsourced their production while waving the American flag, who have been stone deaf to market trends and needs, who made a 30-year plan for their future based on 3 years of oil price drops, and who are locked in a battle to the death with unions that seem to have two pistols, one aimed squarely at each foot. I love the USA and the people who live in it, but I’m not convinced that auto production is a patriotic right and buying American is a patriotic duty. The US has allowed so much of our manufacturing to be outsourced, from our soybeans and beef to the shirts on our backs — is it even POSSIBLE to buy a T-shirt made in America? — that we really deserve to sit and stare at our giant mountain of debt, and ponder our future. Our own government, pandering lies like “economic security,” enabled this massive dumping of labor and raw materials on other countries just to save a cent here and a cent there — it has come back to haunt us?? Wow, didn’t see that coming.

There is SO MUCH innovation out there to be had — India has cars that run on sawgrass oil, solar cabs that make up to 10% of their voltage from roof solar panels, BMW has cars that run on rapeseed oil and biowaste, the entire country of Venezuela runs on e85 — THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES (well, not Germany, but you get the drift) are handing Detroit their asses in terms of innovation. We’ve all heard the argument that the bigger a company is the harder it is to change its course — that’s why Tesla has managed to get so much further, right? — but come on. I don’t think any stimulus or bailout for Detroit should be signed until they prove they are willing to take their punishment, turn the corner and make the cars people need and want right now and in the future. And I will give you a hint — it won’t be a Challenger or Camaro.

Anyone who uses the ignorant generalization that service jobs equate burger flippers is clearly showing great bias and should be completely disregarded. You can’t have a rational discussion with that as your first point, i’m sorry. Go retake econ 101, we’re not on the silver standard anymore.

02WRXPSM:

Spot in in your assessment

HAS ANYONE SEEN THE MOVIE “GRAND TORINO” ???

ONE PART OF THE MOVIE THAT I WILL LIKE TO POINT OUT…

EASTWWOD’S Character a Korean War Vet. , worked for Ford for over 20+ years, his plant closed and that is what lead to his retirement, or else he will still be working. So with that it turns out his son is a salesman for a Toyota dealer…

And he tells them at one point as they drive away…
“Will it kill you to buy American?”…
Funny how the words “Buy American” have tanked a all to different meaning…

And like Carlos Mensia would say… “yarddog what are you trying to say?”…
If you don’t get it, don’t ask……..

Nice to see so many can break down the complex interplay of the worlds intertwined economies down in less then 10 sentences.
bizuce: The question is, what is the right balance of production and service in a healthy world economy?

Just a question here…

How many of us work in a service related job? Come on folks… raise your hand. I’m willing to bet 80% of us do.

That is really where our country is going. We are wholly dependant on imports. Automobiles are the last item that is mass produced in America… and as much as we try to fight it we all know where they are going. The US is turning into a country of salesmen and service monkeys. We no longer have inventors or innovators… we are only consumers. Consumers, consumers, consumers. So exactly what happens when the producer nations of the world decide to lower their quality, jack up their prices, and fvck us all? Gee… the Chinese are already doing it… and we have no choice but to keep importing their garbage b/c we are now in debt to them for billions of dollars.

I am certainly not looking forward to the next 25 years in America… things are going to change drasticly and very rapidly. We can only hope to survive the ride.

Nice weekend and a long Monday to start the… Oops?/! Looks like some here might be confusing what Service Sector means? An Economist, Banker, University Professor, Architect and a Computer System Engineer etc., are all service sector jobs. Similarly, A wall Mart Greeter, Sanitation Engineer and, yes, Burger Flipper are also service sector jobs. The key is what “part” of the service sector a position represents, see SIC (Standard Industrial Classification) codes – this is what Labor Economists, among others, use;-) Hope this clarifies things? I’m employed in the service sector and No I don’t flip burgers – nothing wrong with Burger Flipping;-)

DB9

Friisbee Golf Parks and $30 million to study field mice (aka gerbils) in San Francisco will right this economy.

I know because Pelosobama said so and they know everything in DC!

What’s good for General Motors is good for the Country. GM fails, we all fail.

It is unpatriotic and highly unAmerican to buy foriegn garbage. It is our duty as Americans to stick by our brothers who have kept this Country afloat fro nearly 100 years because without General Motors, this Country WILL FAIL. We will be seeing first hand this Country get demoted to a third world Country seen in Africa or S. America. it is our Patriotic duty that we support Detroit to the end, and that Gm survives.

What’s good for General Motors is good for the Country.

i dont see how it is american to help someone out who has been unwilling to accept help or any hints or ANYTHING for over 30 years now; thats when GM started failing… and finally, their done. Stop funding them, you dont feed a dead horse, do you?