Now, please compare the UK Ford 2008 Focus 1.6 Duratec (116) M5 at 42.6 mpg(Imperial) combined cycle to the 1.6 Duratorq (109) M5 at 65.7 mpg(Imperial) combined cycle [I think this is "apples to apples", anybody know different?]. That is better than a 50% improvement in fuel economy! By the way that is almost 55 mpg(US) combined cycle!!!
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/

If we do not consider initial cost (just to keep it simple), with gasoline at $4 per gallon, diesel would retain the fuel cost per mile advantage until diesel reached $6 per gallon.
Try to figure out the cost savings of that diesel Astra against ANY of the the current Det3 US offerings!

Further … IF … only half of the US auto fleet were getting 44 mpg(US) average or better (Ford and GM/Opel/Vauxhall can SELL you 58 mpg(US) combined cycle vehicles in Europe today), the US oil imports for automotive fuel would be reduced more than 50%!That would put over USD$0.3 trillion annually JUST FOR IMPORTED OIL NOT PURCHASED! THAT IS $1,000 PER PERSON in the US PER YEAR!

Oh and, automotive emissions would be reduced by 25%.

The other interesting news is that FIAT is expected to market a 900 cc diesel electric hybrid [getting about 70 mpg(US) average] by 2012. Sorry “volt”.

So far as rate of acceptance goes, it will probably take about 24 months for people to begin to understand and accept these “new” small (under 2.0 liter) Euro style turbo diesels. After that, within 5 years diesel will probably make up more than 45% of new sales. These classes of vehicles WILL yank the bottom from under the traditional Det3 used vehicle values.

Just the way I see it …

I did a little bit more research into off-road/red diesel prices fluxing. I found that immediately before hurricane Katrina about 6 months before, which has been cited as the biggest reason for diesel pricing going up and away, prices for off-road diesel spiked an average of 66 cents.

Even more interesting, I found that off-road diesel costs an average of only 6 cents less than on-road diesel in 2002, despite on-road diesel not being taxed and having more stringent processing.

To add to that twist, the US Protection Agency had been talking about one single kind of diesel fuel for on and off-road vehicles. Despite this, at the same time they had stated that only some 3% of vehicle emissions were from off-road diesel, but the main cause for concern was the environment, and complex managing of two separate fuels.

Once again, I’m curious about what’s going on here. It gets me extremely angry seeing other companies box me in like they’ve done, and it may be silly for me to be saying this on a message board, something would best need to be done about it.
It’s painfully obvious with more stringent vehicle emissions and fuel consumption, they saw this coming. All other countries, including Europe anticipated this, and most of their prices are caused by ridiculous, grotesque amounts of taxes, not shortage of supply. Even then, most sources I’ve read show that diesel consumption has actually been dropping slightly in America, growing economies like China and India are using quite a bit but nothing on the order of a few dollars jumps in a few years, and Europe has stayed relatively flat. In the housing market boom, diesel for machinery has gone up some, and for things like off-road diesel, but once again nothing to compensate for a couple dollars. Even in the advent of petrol going up, not to many people have converted to diesel, but most companies are anticipating to do so.

I’m gonna go pout and sulk =(

Most people look at HP numbers, which are lower in diesels than gas engines, instead of torque, which is higher in diesels. Diesels make sense in some cases, especially now with clean fuel, but it’s got an uphill climb in the U.S.

Toyota already sells 15% of its output as hybrids (Prius accounts for roughly half, Camry hybrid is next). Hybrid sales are now about 3% of total U.S. sales (2% last year). Where is diesel currently at?

Comment by RaineMan, posted on April15 ”

Raineman – you’ve got your numbers backwards there pal.

snork – Simple economics tells you you’re wrong with tha statement. Diesels get 30% better fuel economy than gas engines of equivalent torque output, on average. While diesel fuel is more expensive than gas right now (a temporary situation caused by U.S. refinery capacity constraints – diesel in the past was cheaper than gas, and should be as it is cheaper to manufacture), it is NOT 30% more expensive than gas. Regular gas where I live is selling for $3.49/gal. Diesel is selling for $4.27/gal. That’s 22% higher cost, not enough to wipe out the 30% lower consumption. A simple example: a gas powered big block Suburban gets 11 MPG average, and over 100 miles will consume 9.1 gallons @ $3.49/gal = $31.79 in fuel cost. A diesel Suburban gets 15 MPG average, and over 100 miles will consume 6.7 gallons @ $4.27/gal = $28.46.

So, even with the higher diesel fuel prices, a diesel is still more economical to operate than a gas engine. Over 15,000 miles, the gas model will consume $4,759 in gasoline, while the diesel model will consume $4,270 in diesel fuel. That’s nearly $500 per year in fuel savings – more if you drive more.

And this is with the current unfavorable pricing premium on diesel fuel. When diesel falls back to about the same price as regular gas, and it will by mid-summer (it did last year), the savings is even greater.

Diesels make sense. The sad part is, the average car buyer in the U.S. is too stupid to figure it out.

Besides you know the Germans and almost as crazy about over thinking a device as the Japanese. If Bluetec is overly complex it should not be taken as the rule but the exception as you should, no doubt, realize having two diesels yourself..

I have two cars… one with a 2.5L 8 valve turbo 4… and one with a 2.0L 16 valve supercharged 4… neither of them are stock… and they don’t seem really complicated to me.

The last time I read an article on Bluetec… that was pretty complicated.

I think that Biofuels have a future just not at the expense of our food supplies, which is about the stupidest thing you can do. I would rather have to walk to the store than starve having nothing at the store when I drive there. There are projects attempting to make light sweet “crude oil” using Bacteria and algae. They do so with consuming our food, basically eating crap and pollution, and make oil that can be made into gas and diesel fuels.

Anyway, RaineMan (#15),
Yes Diesel costs more, but that was not always the case. The increasing demand and very scant, comparatively speaking next to Gasoline, is marching the price always faster than Gas. But power? Diesel engines have always gotten off on torque more than horsepower. I’m sure companies like AUDI and MERCEDES-BENZ can turn that around.

As for over-complicated engines, You really haven’t looked at “simple” 4-stroke, internal combustion, reciprocating piston, multi-valve, four cycle engine. A V8 diesel is unbelievably simple in comparison. The issue of UREA, is being approached by DETROIT is a very different way: A new type of Catalytic Converter that with burn and break down the soot and smoke. The Federal Government has mandated low-sulfur Diesel to reduce pollutants even more. No fancy add-ons, no refills required, just a new type Catalytic box. I know FORD is working on one.

“That’s the world’s philosophy, blame everyone else for your problems.” More prevalent in the USA.