Comments on: Dodge Viper ACR sets unofficial Nürburgring lap record

By: thoth123

thoth123 — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:42:07 +0000

Essentially it comes down to this. The GT-R, Corvette and ACR are comparable. GM and Nissan decided to use electronics to make their cars handle. Dodge used low tech to do the same. Electronic traction control for the ACR is the aero kit. Electronic suspension control is the lighter wheels, btter tires and deletion of the amenities. You cannot get away from the fact that the runs are based on PRODUCTION vehicles. Put a splitter or a wing on either the GT-R or the Vette, it is no longer a production car. Seriously, I can’t stand all the electronic nannies. It’s really sad when the car has to have balls and talent because “jonny street racer” doesn’t. In my experience all this crap does is turn lackluster drivers into DANGEROUS lackluster drivers because they feel all they have to do is turn the wheel and the car will take care of the rest of it. Therefore, DON”T buy an ACR. Just keep playing Gran Turismo and believe you’re badass.

By: Ferrari09

Ferrari09 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:47:47 +0000

All of yall saying well if you put this and take off that on the zr1 then it would beat the viper are just stupid. the fact is, the viper beat the corvette and all you corvette junkies are upset. yall have no arguement. if the two cars are how they are when you buy them the viper wins on the track. get over it. yeah i like the viper more but i admit in 2006 the vette won the dual. this acr is simply a better track car than the zr1.

By: volvo240dl

volvo240dl — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 03:04:57 +0000

Racing tires, no a/c and a 2 seat plane sized wing does not count as a road car. This is 95% track car and 5% drive it to the track.

By: CF6-80

CF6-80 — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:21:52 +0000

Say what you will about the lap times which are so close as to be just the differance of barometric pressure or temperature or even warm sunny asphalt vs. cold asphalt. Which one of these cars will still be in production in a year or two?

Chrysler is on the ropes so hard I don’t think they will be able to keep a small niche vehicle like the Viper afloat for much longer. And all the people predicting GM’s demise apperently spend all their time reading forums like this instead of Barrons. GIve it two more years and GM will be back on top of Toyota and again out of the league of Dodge and Ford. Look at the product in the pipeline. And forget about your own prejudices and personal likes. The product coming is stuff that will sell to the average person if not to people who “drove their dad’s best friends, cousins ‘01 Viper around the block once” and are now going to tell me all the ins and outs of driving on a track they have never seen in cars they can’t afford themselves would want to buy.

The Corvette will always be a sales success. Remember the Nissan 300ZX from ‘88? Outperformed the Corvette of the time for considerably less money. Which one stayed in production?

So enjoy You Tube racing your Vipers, GTR’s, and Ford GT (oops forgot that one already went to pasture) against the Vette. You’ll always be able to say “Hey remember that car Dodge made that was like a Vette?”

BTW- No I don’t have one of these cars either. But I do have a ‘67 Camaro that has made repeated high speed runs over the Alcan from Great Falls, MT to Anchorage, AK. Love the look on peoples faces when they seen a nice old Camaro covered in mud with a big crack in the windshield. I built it to enjoy it. Speaking of which do you think the Viper of GTR could drive the Northwest Territorries Dempster Highway to Inuvik the way the Corvette in Car&Driver did? 500 miles of horrible gravel road each way. Fun road though.

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:03:59 +0000

People seem to forget that Nissan invested a lot of time, money and research into making the GT-R. They didn’t just pull it out of a hat. In fact, a lot of their research time was spent running the ‘Ring. So not only did they make a car that can run the ‘Ring real fast, they also had more practice doing it. Yes, GM and Chrysler invested a lot and worked real hard to make their cars beat the GT-R, but Nissan worked hard, too. And honestly, I think it’s amazing what they did. Personally, I’d choose the GT-R over the other two because I like the interior, and because it has four seats and I have a family of four. So Jay, you and I are alike in the practicality part.

However, what I was getting at was not Speedemon’s post but F3’s post (which Speedemon copied). Some people say that the electronics in the GT-R are sort of like cheats, in that they help the driver win with less effort. F3 was basically saying that “electronic gizmos or not you still beat them.” To which I responded that the GT-R got beat twice. So, with or without the helps, if you win, you win. The problem is that people still say things like, “Well, the ‘Vette isn’t practical,” or “The Viper is racing tuned,” or “The ZR1 has a bigger engine and it’s more expensive.” So what? The Viper ACR is top dog now, because it beat everything else. Whether we like it or not, the Viper is currently the fastest one to run the ‘Ring. Who knows? Maybe the V-Spec will beat the Viper, maybe it won’t. And if it does, cool. If it doesn’t, that’s still cool. It won’t change the fact that I’d like to have a GT-R.

And it shouldn’t. For the price, the GT-R is a very fast car with some decent amenities and way cool electronics. The Corvette ZR1 is a very fast and very nice car as well. The Viper is a very fast car with a decent interior, but it is very raw. They are three very different vehicles, and if you have the money, choose the one you like, not the one that runs the ‘Ring the fastest (unless that is your #1 qualification). Honestly, I’d like to own all three because they are so different and great in their own regard.

What I’m saying is that people should stop making excuses for the GT-R and the ZR1. The GT-R got beat. Period. So did the ZR1. Period. The Viper is the fastest right now. Who cares what version it is, and what needed to be done? The point is the Viper won, and now it’s up to the next guy to beat the Viper. So bring it on. Let’s see who can do it.

I’m not a Viper fanboy. I respect anything that’s fast, and I love all three of these cars.

I encourage everyone to watch the videos though. All three of the videos are so impressive (albeit long). It’s amazing to see the different characteristics of the cars and their drivers.

By: JayJunior

JayJunior — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:41:29 +0000

GT-R got beat by a car obviously we all know that by now, but I think ’speedemon’s point was that for what has been done with the ZR1 and the ACR to make them so fast….over 13/14 miles to beat the GT-R by a few seconds is hardly worth it in my opinion considering the overall price and what the car is…..the ACR is pretty much a track only car, ZR1 (well I don’t know how liveable it is) but from what I know it is a compromise of both but quite basic, and the GT-R is a lot cheaper than any of them and is still a compromise of both. Well in anycase and whatever the story is, I do think the rival for the ZR1/ACR/WTF/ETC.. is the more focused racing tuned – just like the ACR and the ZR1 – V-spec….not the initial GT-R.

Anyways for the ZR1 to get such performance with relatively less complex engineering is really impressive to say the least in anycase and kudos for beating the GT-R

In my opinion a race I might take part in would be over much less than 13/14 miles…maybe even less than 5miles and that’s a long race! And for that reason I would choose the value mainly and comfort of the all over practicality of the GT-R over the ZR1 and definitely over the ACR

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:37:25 +0000

“and also when you beat someone in a GT-R electronic gizmos or not you still beat them. ”

Same goes in reverse. The GT-R just got beat. Twice.

By: speedemon

speedemon — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:47:00 +0000

08/29, 2:17 PMposted by:F3INT))AP3X
The ZR1 and ACR may outperform the GT-R but barely and for the advantages they have the time differences are pathetic. GM put everything they had in trying to develop the ZR1 and even with its giant V8 and supercharger it still can’t put more than 2 or 3 seconds between it and the GT-R which has a small little V6. When the V-Spec comes out it is going to beat those times, and it is going to do it with less horsepower. The ACR and ZR1 may not need the computer gizmos but the point is that they don’t have them. I meet someone every day who says that winning a race with a Playstation car like the GT-R is hollow and is not like trying to master the likes of the ZR1 and and ACR. But IMO the ACR and ZR1 just handle sloppy in a world where cars don’t have to, and also when you beat someone in a GT-R electronic gizmos or not you still beat them. So complain about electronic aids all you want but this is the age of paddle shifting and grip management systems and anyone who wants to drive something without it may be getting a purist type feel out of their drive but they are getting it in second place. As for street use its a moot point to argue whats better on the street since nobody is technically supposed to speed although one could argue the economy the GT-R has over other high end sports cars makes it a dealbreaker.

AT LAST SOMEONE WITH SOME DAMN COMMON SENSE!GT-R IS BETTER ALL AROUND PERIOD.

By: golf4me

golf4me — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:03:26 +0000

I saw both videos and I will say that the driver of the ZR1 was not nearly as smooth as the driver of the Viper. That guy in the ZR1 was “sawtoothing” like a 5r old on the first day of kart school. The Viper driver was much better at using the Viper’s torque, as he made about 50% less shifts too, although he missed a couple. I’d like to see the guy who drove in this video do the same in the ZR1 and see what happens. Viper is one baddass car, no doubt.

By: F3INT))AP3X

F3INT))AP3X — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:17:14 +0000

The ZR1 and ACR may outperform the GT-R but barely and for the advantages they have the time differences are pathetic. GM put everything they had in trying to develop the ZR1 and even with its giant V8 and supercharger it still can’t put more than 2 or 3 seconds between it and the GT-R which has a small little V6. When the V-Spec comes out it is going to beat those times, and it is going to do it with less horsepower. The ACR and ZR1 may not need the computer gizmos but the point is that they don’t have them. I meet someone every day who says that winning a race with a Playstation car like the GT-R is hollow and is not like trying to master the likes of the ZR1 and and ACR. But IMO the ACR and ZR1 just handle sloppy in a world where cars don’t have to, and also when you beat someone in a GT-R electronic gizmos or not you still beat them. So complain about electronic aids all you want but this is the age of paddle shifting and grip management systems and anyone who wants to drive something without it may be getting a purist type feel out of their drive but they are getting it in second place. As for street use its a moot point to argue whats better on the street since nobody is technically supposed to speed although one could argue the economy the GT-R has over other high end sports cars makes it a dealbreaker.

By: A True Gear Head

A True Gear Head — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:57:31 +0000

the zr1 looks tacky as fook i dont know how anyone defends that thing, the viper is so much more badass than the vette

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:42:45 +0000

You guys really need to watch the video. You’ll say the same thing that Hbcbob3 said: “I can’t believe that run beat the ZR1…”

By: WEKS

WEKS — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:33:33 +0000

While (most) the points mentioned here in favor of the ZR-1 and GT-R are very true and absolutely valid. The bragging right that this entails is undeniable.

(Also IMO the Viper looks better than the ZR-1 and GT-R)

By: mikemacnn

mikemacnn — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:30:31 +0000

unofficial.. hmm…

By: DeansterTJ

DeansterTJ — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:59:19 +0000

I wonder what one of those Cobalt SS’s would do with a chip and supercharger bolted on.

By: Fromes

Fromes — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:39:59 +0000

not mention regardless of what nissan says the GTR, ACR and ZR-1 are all sold for around the same price of 100 grand

By: Fromes

Fromes — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:37:14 +0000

lap times on the ring are pretty irrelavant when three cars (viper, gtr, and vette) get times this low that are within a few seconds of each other….I bet if you took turns rotating a couple of drivers between those cars and maybe throw in an F430 scudderia and a gallardo for good measure you would prob have a different “fastest” lap everytime.
The Viper ACR is a track car,plain and simple and while it is true that the addition of wings and splitters might make it slower in the classical sense of top speed (the ACRs top speed is 180 where as the normal viper is 200) these additons along with less weight, sticker tires and stiffer suspenison make it much much faster around a track, modify a ZR-1 the same way and you to would prob see simaler results.
I also find it interesting that while some tout the advantages of awd and heavy computer interference like that in the GT-R both the viper and the vette manage to out perform it in both a straght line and a track but they do so with out the same amount of computer nannies the GT-R has, in fact, the viper has only ABS nothing else to save a less skilled driver

By: JoshyLofty

JoshyLofty — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:18:47 +0000

the reason the dodge boys are so excited is cuz the ZR1 is a hopped up vette with extra wide tires & bigger engine blah blah blah… the viper didn’t add anything, just took away. i’ve driven a Viper. my dad had one in 2001 as a 2002 model, drove it 4 days out of almost every week (weather permitting, he had a Dodge Ram 4 door otherwise) and never had any problems out of it. when he was ready to trade it in for a NEW viper when the new body style came out, we BOTH fell in love but he went with a jag XKR cuz of its refinement.

By: SubSolar

SubSolar — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:18:37 +0000

Throw a pulley and a chip on the ZR1 for about the price of a tank of gas and re-test.

By: DeansterTJ

DeansterTJ — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:16:52 +0000

Crazy. So much torque.

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:25:56 +0000

It’s so funny the way the guy pegs the rev limiter and the stick shakes. It’s like the car is saying, “Shift me! Shift me!”

By: vincentvegas74

vincentvegas74 — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:04:51 +0000

F1 Cars need the wings just to stay on the ground, otherwise they’d be airborne. So light and such high speeds.

By: monte

monte — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:48:57 +0000

Yah, they should take those wings off of f1 cars too, what are they thinking……lol

By: SloW8

SloW8 — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:20:34 +0000

We are talking about performance, not comfort. That’s what a lap record (and this story) is about… performance. This is a stock car that you can buy off the dealers showroom and register in all 50 states. Comparing tuned cars or modified cars is a moot point. Dodge has put together a better performance package than GM. Could GM do it? Nope. The bean counters wont let them. The ZR1 IS Chevy’s big performance hoo-rah and its slower. It may be more usable, but its not as fast around a track.

I am not a Dodge Boy, but I have driven an ACR and it’s a serious bit of kit. I have not driven a ZR1 yet.

By: travis0017

travis0017 — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:14:36 +0000

-Lot of excuses for the weight of the vette amenities, but that’s the price paid for a car that targets consumers that can’t part with the creature comforts of their McMansions. The Viper has always been about laughing at the pampered driver sports car.
To all the flacid debunking attempts:
Do you know how much carpeting is in a Viper? Good luck shaving off seconds with that negligible weight.
Go ahead and take off all the extras you mention to try to equalize to the Viper (although this would no longer be an accurate reflection of the Vette), -my money would still be on the Viper.

By: vincentvegas74

vincentvegas74 — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:09:42 +0000

Sounds like a vette boy is getting his back up.

It’s so hard to compare a Vette to a Viper….they are so totally different vehicles and have such different ways of acheiving there goal. Vettes are for old guys that want all the creature comforts and Vipers are for people that just want to be down right bad ass.

By: gcorvette987

gcorvette987 — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:04:55 +0000

Oh here we go, all the dodge boys are going to get all happy now because their stipped out, no radio, no AC, Lighter Wheels, winged out viper beat GM’s full interior, nice comfortable ZR1. how about we strip out the zr1, and put alot of the aerodynamic tweaks, no ac and no radio or speakers, or even on the GT-R and lets see how they do. till then i dont want to hear no **** from the dodge boys.

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:03:35 +0000

The Viper outhandles the NSX. That’s not to say the NSX does not handle well, though. In its time, the NSX was top dog. However, the current Viper makes the NSX seem slippery.

By: F3INT))AP3X

F3INT))AP3X — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:58:17 +0000

But if you really want some handling then I suggest the NSX =)

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:57:20 +0000

I would love to drive a Viper… should I ever get the opportunity I definately will. I have driven my dad’s 305z Roadster and C6 convertible. I liked the Z… and the C6 with the auto. tranny & paddle shifters is very impressive.

By: SloW8

SloW8 — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:57:03 +0000

The ACR IS street legal. Adding the splitter extension would make it a pain in the butt to drive on the street but I doubt you would get a ticket. It is a feature of the car and you can pop it off or on in 3 minutes.

The ACR is a serious track car that you can drive on the street. The ZR1 is a serious street car that you can drive on the track.

Air conditioning abd radio is standard on the ACR. Deleting it is an option (hardcore package). The aero aids on the ACR are a huge part of why it is so fast on the track.

By: vincentvegas74

vincentvegas74 — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:30:42 +0000

I think with the Cobalt/Camaro comparison we’re talking more about HP to weight ratio rather than handling.

They probably could pull a faster time with out the wing and splitter, simply because the Viper already pulls a full “g” on the skidpad and probably wouldn’t have needed the downforce to stay on this track.

If you think the Colbalt corners like on rails…try driving a Viper…you’ll think it’s bolted to the road.

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:18:53 +0000

So what if it’s slower in the straights? The real time is made up in the curves. How else do you think that the 260hp Cobalt SS is within a few seconds of the 400hp Camaro? Camaro can run straight out, but Cobalt can corner like its on rails.

By: F3INT))AP3X

F3INT))AP3X — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:06:05 +0000

I would like to see a battle between the ZR-1 and the ACR with both cars being piloted by the team drivers. I have driven a 2000 Z06 and a 96 GTS Viper and I don’t know how much they’ve changed but I can say for sure they are incredibly different cars for being so similar in mission. I think if each car was being piloted by their team drivers who know the car and its handling characteristics then that would be a real race for times. Also vincent here is correct, on a track like the Nurburgring a wing and spoiler will help of course but with the ‘Rings long sweeping corners and big straights the overall outcome is probably hindered a bit with those bits on as they will reduce top end speed.

By: RotaxKart

RotaxKart — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:01:46 +0000

“Those things are there just to give grip around corners.”