More proof that Ford might still be around if they only could put that quality into some cars that anyone wants.

Quality is one thing, building a product someone actually wants is another.

I don’t know about you guys, but “initial quality” means next to nothing to me. It’s the “initial” 100,000+ miles that matter to me. Anybody can make a car with enough quality to roll off the lot and be happy about it. They did like it enough to buy it after all. Does anybody know what is taken into account in an “inital quality” survey?

Initial quality doesn’t mean squat. Quality means when I drive a 3 year-old car the seat is still firm, there are no rattles and the electronics still work. Ford has never been able to achieve that.

Quality???!!! It takes more than quality to be “equal” to Toyota….. such as resale value, reliability, more importantly aesthetics.

I received an “initial quality survey” about 3 months after purchasing my new Nissan Frontier.
Actually have received about 4 different surveys from different groups.
I’ll agree with other posters, any car rolling out of an assembly line SHOULD be perfect. A dozen people should have checked to make sure! Real quality is in how the thing holds together after 3-4 years.
And I’ll take rock solid resale over a couple minor glitches anyday! I’m not a huge Toyota fan, but you can’t argue with their residuals.

Here’s a theory: Ford hasn’t changed too much, but Toyota has gotten worse in quality, when calculating in all the hybrid glitches & new Camry/Avalon problems. And Nissan: Sorry, Nissan. Step it up! Ford’s starting to kick your ass in quality.

I bought my ‘99 F250 SuperDuty PSD/CC new. Now it has 325,000 miles with only normal stuff like oil changes, tires, brake pads, filters ets. One alternator is the only real repair required. It runs, drives, hauls and works as well as the day it was new. I tow as much as 15K pounds with it regularly, work out of it every day, haul the boat on weekends and it will roll with the best of them.

Apparently, as usual, most of you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about. I am sooooooooo suprised……NOT!

look at the JD Power initial quality survey. All car manufacturers except Land Rover are within 1 defect of each other in initial quality. The differences between all automakers is extremely small, the whole angle of automotive marketing is to create the illusion that there is some big difference in quality between brands. Once you get past initial quality, long term reliability is more a function of ownership, than the car itself.

See page 4.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2006082.pdf

“long term reliability is more a function of ownership than the car itself”………Madcapp, you nailed that one.

Here’s a concept, “initial quality” isn’t ****, they may have (according to this ONE source) near equal “initial quality” to Toyota, but over the long run, no comparison, Toyota has far, far higher quality.

Time will tell

gbb,
one owner report out of over a million vehicles is quite meaningless. And since were all clueless, WHY ARE YOU HERE?

Even more proof American cars are just as good if not better then the Japanese. Unfortunately the “I hate American cars just because they are American and the Japanese can do no wrong” crowd will never admit it. Good job Ford.

The only problem with the flawed logic being presented by the Toyota lovers here is that if you look at JD Power 3 year reliability you will see there isnt a huge gap between Toyota and others. If Ford vehicles from 3 years ago are almost as reliable as Toyotas of that era I would imagine the gap would close even more by the time these current cars are 3 years old. The notion that intial quality means nothing is bogus. You will rarely find brands with great initial quality and poor long term quality. When people say “there is no way Fords are anywhere near as reliable as Toyotas” they ought to provide some proof. Even import fanboy bible Consumer Reports gives most Fords high marks in reliability.

its like a difference of 3 problems BIG DEAL

BOLD MOVES….BOLD CLAIMS.

I keep telling people these things (whether initial quality or long term)
Many people say oh if it aint a toyota or honda then it’s complete crap

that’s just not the case (especially with newer models)

If u all are worrying about quality of any car of any company, LEASE a car!! Entire lease term is covered by a warranty.
Whats ur problem, u all bunch of whiners!!

Its good that quality is up. However, no one wants to buy vehicles that look like crap like the Bloated Ford Fivehundred.
I agree with Me, but to most Toyotas keep their value several years down the road. And I would go as far as saying that a typical Toyota or Hondas resale Value is much higher several years down the line VS A Ford.

And I would like to say that Toyotas and Hondas are doing just fine after 250,000 miles and can keep running and never have a major overhaul. Can Ford make the same claim. Right now I have a Taurus and its been good for almost 110,000 miles with minimal maintenance. If it can keep the same track record to 250,000 miles then Ford has something.
And if Ford wants to put its money where its mouth is ; then it should at least come out with a warranty that goes to 100,000 miles and/or 10 years as well.

norby, my Ford is the one that counts cause its mine.

impulsive, you need therapy.

I just don’t get it, if Ford does actually match Toyota for quality, many of you think Toyota quality is slipping!
The American Auto companies just can’t win!
As for Ford building vehicles people want, please tell me what sort of style leader Toyota is!? i work in the auto industry and i have heard many joe public comment on the fact that Toyotas are like white goods, work well but are NOT exciting to drive or own, people but them for mere transport only…like the kitchen fridge!
So when Toyota can actually style its entire range and make them be class leaders in handling dynamics like, Mazda for example or even Nissans have more desirability! then we can sing the praises of toyota being the best at everything…
that hasnt happened yet, no manufacturer has…

by the way i have a 96 model AUSTRALIAN made RWD falcon sedan done 250,000klm and its still going fine, original auto and engine and the mechanic claims i should get at least another 100,000klm of trouble free klms out of it and im waiting for this FORD to die…
I have seen Toyotas suffer the same niggling issues as any other auto company…

I don’t think anyone cares about your car, gbb. lol

But yeah, problems do vary from each owner. What I would like to see is what 2,3,4,5, … year customers feel about their products.

Own two ‘97 Ford E150’s w/4.6V8’s, both with 400,000+ trouble free miles. Engines and trannys have never been touched. Both start, run & drive as new. I can’t wear them out! Just purchased a third E150 (Nov. 2006) and expect no less out of it and already have 21,000 miles on it.

You’re right, Autolover. The American companies can’t win (with some people). Ford has made great strides in quality. Ititial quality will likely lead to long-term reliability, but we don’t know yet. But Ford should be given a chance to prove it. And if the long-term reliability does improve, so will the resale values.

S60, I think leasing only makes sense if its a company car, otherwise your just throwing money into a pit, financing is a different story, thats what I’d do if put in the situation

The funny thing about this is, not only is everyone full of ****. But also, how many of you actually drive a car for more than 50k miles. Probably or maybe 30% of you. How many Honda’s and Toyota’s have more than 150k on the whole pwertrain? Not very many that’s for damb sure. All you dip****s probably just got ripped off for paying too much for an over priced rusted out POS with a new motor or tranny. This whole blog is a fricken joke. Take it from a mechanic that has seen everything imorted or domestic. They all brake at the some point.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2008-toyota-highlander.html

Tell Toyota to keep making cars that look like that…Worst, most disproportioned, ugliest vehicle ever…
Give Ford 5 years and they’ll be kicking their ass up and down the street….Admit it people, Ford’s just not gonna make those mistakes they did in the past…Everything they’ve come out has been Bold lately and if they continue to follow up these bold looking vehicles with good quality then they’ll be on top of the game.

”

I bought my ‘99 F250 SuperDuty PSD/CC new. Now it has 325,000 miles with only normal stuff like oil changes, tires, brake pads, filters ets. One alternator is the only real repair required. It runs, drives, hauls and works as well as the day it was new. I tow as much as 15K pounds with it regularly, work out of it every day, haul the boat on weekends and it will roll with the best of them.

Apparently, as usual, most of you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about. I am sooooooooo suprised……NOT!
GBB”

you have to realize that your truck is a diesel, and diesels can run for ever with few problems, now get an F150 of the same year, and you will see the complete opposite.

I haven’t posted here in a while, but I will comment on some stuff I’ve read. First off, there are different lease programs by different companies. I work for a leasing company and we can tailor the lease to fit the needs of the driver, regardless of mileage. The way we do this is buy using a “residual value” During that type of lease at the end of the term, the customer is responsible for the residual value (that’s what we think the vehicle or equipment will be worth, based on how they’ll use it, such as mileage and condition of it) Example, we know someone will drive 30,000 miles per year for 5 years on a $35,000 truck…if they did that, I’d set a residual of $3,500, wich is 10% of the price of the vehicle. At the end of the lease the customer has the option of purchasing it for the residual value + state fees, trading it in or selling it on their own or re-writing the lease. If they re-write the lease, we’d start it at $3,500 and take it down another 10% for another term…maybe 2 years or so and just pay the 2nd residual + state fees if they want to purchase it at the end. If they sell it on their own or try to trade it, they want to get their payoff or residual value. If they are upside down or get a higher appraisal, we cut them a check or bill them the diffence. In this case it would be like financing through anyone else. If you’re upside down on the value, you’re upside down, regardless of who finances it. A lot of businesses lease because the vehicle or equipment is titled in the lessor’s name (lessor is the company that pays for the vehicle or equipment)and they can receive write-off benefits because they are “renting” it to run their business. Basically, the IRS looks at it as a business expense. The person that leases it is the “lessee.”

As far as Ford’s recent quality, they have improved. If you don’t believe me, ask yourself this question: “Have you driven a Ford lately?” One more thing, the Ford Five Hundred is an underrated car. At least you can see out of the thing! It’s not supposed to handle like a GT500, it’s a family sedan, not a sport sedan for cryin’ out loud.

Another comment, Toyota might have a higher resale because they just don’t offer the huge rebates and 0% like the Big 3 do. In Europe, Ford has the best cars, plain and simple. Keep up the good work, Ford! Now just bring a little of that styling over here.

mujician…
I made the comment all manufacturers, INCLUDING TOYOTA suffer the same niggling issues and faults…
How an owner treats their vehicles is a major contributor to longegevity…
All mainstream vehicles are produced to the same sort of standard…even BMWs and Mercs age like any other mainstream brands…

My belief is that there isn’t very much difference in quality in the twenty-first century between the best brand and the worst. It comes down to other things like perceived quality, reliability, interior materials, overall feel, and dealership experience. The domestic automakers are still lacking in those categories, though we’re all pretty spoiled to be picking on any specific brands or cars, because there aren’t very many bad cars out there today.

Honda’s still the industry leader!

Go Ford, way to lower the bar of your own self-expectations. So as long as your cars don’t blow up once they leave the factory, you’re better than everyone else, eh? Morons.

Couple things here…

1) Ford’s quality is vastly improved. Initial and long-term. If you don’t know that, then you are completely out of touch. For those who think initial quality is not an indicator of long-term quality obviously haven’t seen the lists of initial and long-term winners and losers. Turns out they’re the same.

2) Most of what this board suffers from is perception problems. I still contend that Toyota has not been that much better for the last 15 or so years in terms of quality. What they have dominated in is customer service, an area that Ford is only now catching up on. So, for example, if it is known that there is a starter problem where the starters fail at 50-60k, in the past Ford (dealers) would charge as much as they could to fix it while Toyota might have an extended warranty for that part. The people I’ve known who have had both GM or Ford vehicles and Toyota or Honda products have noted that the quality and life of the vehicles weren’t significantly different. What was different was the service from the dealers and support from the company to address problems. Of note we’ve had a 1992 Aerostar 210,000 a 1997 Escort go 190,000, a 1988 Ranger go 320,000, a 1995 Civic go 180,000 and an 1989 Accord go 220,000 in our family. We still have a 2001 Civic, a 2005 Focus, a 2007 Fusion (purchased over a new Accord) and a 1999 F-150 at 180,000.

3) Resale value is related to a couple things. The first, most obvious is discounts applied at the time of purchase. Some of Ford’s vehicles have terrible resales regardless of incentives. However, a lot of the difference between Ford and Toyota (Honda is pretty much untouchable) right now can be attributed to transaction price rather than MSRP. If every Focus sells with at least $3000 incentives while every Corolla sells with $1000 in incentives, from MSRP averages of $17,000 that’s 18% off versus 6%. That’s a 12% difference going in and it turns out the the Focus and Corolla 3-year resale values are off by about that much this year. So, yes, your Corolla will be worth more percentage-wise after 3 years, but your percentage off of purchase price is going to be fairly close (if you’re paying MSRP on a Focus, you are really stupid).

Resale is also a matter of perception. It is perceived that Toyotas last longer and have fewer problems so they will command a higher price over the long run. And eventually perception will erode and align with reality. It will take a while, though. However, the reality is that Ford’s quality is on par with Toyota’s these days. GM is also closing fast. I expect that quality will become a much lower issue because of overall high quality in the next 3-5 years. What will grow in importance is customer service, and Ford still has some work to do there.

You read my mind, homeboy, though perhaps in a slightly more vulgar way, lol. I’m no Toyota fan, but for Ford to claim superiority over ANYONE in its current state is enough to make you laugh so hard your family might commit you.

The way Ford is fumbling through business lately, you have to wonder if maybe someone on the inside is TRYING to sink the company, perhaps in the hopes of getting some juicy stock-buyout offer.

Bah…why do they compare themselves to such trash in the first place? Ford should innovate and lead the way, period! No “ifs” or “buts”.

homeboy234, primeGTP…

You both need to find a womans magazine to read or something…
When you both wake up and open your eyes, please then can you start contributing to this board in a meaningful way?

I’m about the imports, but even I can admit that Ford has made some quality improvements lately. They’ve still got kinks to work out, but it can come with time.

LIES not true Toyota is better than sex

umm no, ford doesn’t match Toyota in quality

Well if Ford say so, it must be true… Let me remind you of the words of the great British Prime Minister, (an office that still retains at least a small measure of credibility, unlike some other head of state) Benjamin Disraeli “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics”. This is never more true than when the statistics in question are paid for.

Homeboy and PrimeGTP are complete idiots. With a name like homeboy you must be the one on crack and you need to remove your lips from honda’s nuttsack you brown-nosing dumbass. PrimeGTP at what point in the article does Ford claim superiority over anyone? I think I remember reading matches or equal to Toyota but I don’t recall superiority. So tell me are you and Homoboy using crack and crystal meth? Hey who remembers these handy dandy comments? lol

_________well said PrimeGTP ha ha. Comment by homeboy234,

You read my mind, homeboy, Comment by PrimeGTP

I always knew losers didnt like Ford but I just never figured they’d act like they came from some kind of Mickey Mouse Organization. lol car noobs

People are going to rush their dealers to buy the cars.

Ford factories will increase production.

Ford quality is among the best.

WAIT……this isn’t 1968 anymore.

Nice to see the couple rabid Ford apologists getting all worked up.

“and better than those made by Nissan”

Mujician is right, almost all cars need to be fixed at some point. doubtful that any car on the road has all original parts…I’m not talking about the usual replacements like belts and such. Maybe even things like radiators or something else. Nothing is perfect.

For “initial quality” means the first 150,000 miles not the first 1,000 miles.

I expect the vehicle to have two or less issues in the first 30,000 miles and those should be 100 percent taken care of by the manufacturer.

Between that and 150,000 miles I shouldn’t have to spend more than $200 for anything other than general maintanance and the vehicle should still be performing almost as well as it was at 30,000 miles. It should also still be worth at least 15% of the initial cost.

No Ford vehicle has every done that for me. I’ve had three of them. Toyota has NEVER let me down with any of the four Toyotas I’ve ever had.

Note that I don’t care if I bought the lowest end or highest end vehicles. My expectations of quality and dependability remain the same. The difference I’m paying for is features. It should not in ANY way reflect the amount of quality of the vehicle.

Until Ford gets that, they will never have me as a customer.

(PS: I do NOT want Microsoft technology in my vehicles. But the quality and Microsoft don’t belong in the same sentence anyway. I’m referring to the audio that MS and Ford are teaming up on. Another bad mark on Ford’s part.)

As illustrated by the often rapid postings here, ‘Initial Quality” or “quality” in general seems to be beased as much on personal experience as it is on perception. Many post here state “I had a …. and it was (great) (sucked), therefore all vehicles made by that manufacturer are the same”. The North American domestics have a tough road ahead of them to change the perception that they are still way behind the mostly Asian competition. Even Consumer Reports had stated that the gap in quality has narrowed and the most relaible seem to have reached a plateau where the number of faults per vehicle is no longer declining.

They may have caught up in short term quality. But initial and long term are completely different.

I think people need to be a little more open to Ford’s BOLD MOVES. With this, car companies know that moves are being made by their competitors for the better. If you do or do not like it then thats your opinion. Voice it if you choose to(as everyone here has done) But I can’t help overhearing people say that ford should give up because they have no chance. Not true. Ford has a chance because they have companies to compete with like Nissan and Toyota, GM, so on and so forth. If it were not for this then we would be stuck with problematic cars with service that do nothing. So instead of saying “Give up Ford” why not encourage them, as well as all the other companies, because end result we(the consumer) come out with VERY NICE CARS! Long term short term whatever. What really matters is that they are making cars with passion now.
I’m a Ford driver, so I can be a little biased but, I love all cars out there. So this really means a lot to me. Also a side note: A car will last as long as the driver wants it to.

95′ Ford Escort LX Hatchback — 285,000 km LOL anyone who knows these cars knows that they ALMOST NEVER reach this km. I’m proud that I did that.
83′ Camero Z28 275,000km. Properly taken care of.
2000 Ford Taurus 165,000 km. My newest car. Very well taken car of and still runs as if it were new.
Anything can happen!!! So be a little more open the moves made by any auto manufacturing.
Thank you for even reading my little blerb there.

“Ford paid RDA to conduct the study…”

that is all.

You guys are getting worked up over nothing. If you paid someone to audit you, you’d expect them to give you glowing reviews. No business is that stupid…

Whether or not Ford did better than Nissan or Toyota really doesn’t matter. All 3 are very low players in the quality lists compared to other companies. Buick and Cadillac are at the very top of the quality game.

Thing is, I’ve heard a lot of people talk about the reliability of their Ford trucks with 200,000+ miles on them. It’s not just gbb.

My 93 Ranger had 193,000 miles on the original, un-rebuilt engine, trans and rearend. Only thing I changed was the clutch. Beat the snot out of that truck offroading and it never let me down. Sold it and now have a 99 Ranger thats up to 122,000 miles. Original everything including the clutch. No problems either. My buddies 86 Ranger went 228,502 miles… also un-rebuilt! His 02 Tundra…Blew the rearend at 35,000 miles and had balljoint failure at 42,000 miles. So yeah Ford makes a good product. And no im not 16 like 95% of the other people who post on here.

First off Quality is one thing. Poor design is another animal. And just plain stupid. Wake up! First off the Taurus a great design came into existence back in 1985 Now The Taurus which Ford threw in the dust pile a year ago and has been brought back to life unceremoniously like the Phoenix Bird from the Ashes in its new life as a stupid Dumbkopf Ford 500. What Ford needs to do is make the Taurus a kick ass car again. You know GM is doing a better job at making Futuristic versions of the Taurus than Ford is!? Chevy Impala, G6, Buick, Cadillac- notice something anyone. The same company complaining and telling everyone that Jellybean shaped cars don’t sell or look ridiculous is doing it!

I guess GM isn’t dumb after all?!

Meanwhile Ford has been playing dumb that’s because the Ford children the ingrates they are. Don’t know how to manage or whom is best to manage their great grandfather company. Will or does Allan Mullally really have the right stuff??

Chevy Impala, G6, Buick, Cadillac- notice something anyone. The same company complaining and telling everyone that Jellybean shaped cars don’t sell or look ridiculous is doing it!
cadillacs look like jellybean? ummmm….ok?

ONCE AGAIN, TOYOTA DRIVERS HAVE A HAIR ACROSS THEIR ASSES.

GREAT JOB FORD!

Well said jackdev73! What will it take for American to support their own car biz? Let’s reverse that…. if it had read Toyota’s quality was up 8% more over Ford then people would be dancing in the streets yelling “HAHA we told you American cars were crap” But turn it back the other way and all you hear is more negativity. It’s sad really.

Ford verses Toyota

Ford is better than Toyota. Take a look at the cabs in Toronto (where I live); most are Taurus. They buy them because they are reliable. My company provided me with a top of the line Toyota Sienna van to drive. It’s the new body style and is almost four years old. The back sliding doors freeze shut in any kind of snow/freezing condition and you have to crawl over the front seats to get into the back of the vehicle. (This cannot be fixed.) The alternator belt squeals every time you put the seat heaters on. (This cannot be fixed.) The wheels are all corroding and Toyota will not fix them under warranty. The leather steering wheel is deteriorating and they don’t cover it under warranty. My Toyota is well into its second set of brakes in 60,000 miles. My Taurus was on its first set at this point. The battery died in three years. I have never replaced a battery in this short of a time. I had a flashing seat belt light on last week. The engines mechanical valve lifters need adjustment now. (The Fords are hydraulic and never require an expensive adjustment.) It will need a new expensive timing chain at I believe 100 M miles. (The Ford will never need to be replaced as it is a metal one.) Toyota had a threatened class action suit because of engine foaming in their Lexus and Toyota vehicles. After the treat Toyota extended the warranty to look after it. A new engine can cost $8000.00. What happens after the extended warranty? I believe the transmission in my Sienna is starting to slip in second gear. (I have read others on the internet with a similar concern.) Don’t tell me Toyota is better than Ford. Also, Ford employs many more Americans than Toyota. Not just at assembly plants but including original equipment parts producers. Don’t be fooled by Toyotas ads on TV about employment. I recently was able to have Consumer Reports admit this fact regarding total employment. (See Consumers 2007 Annual Auto Issue)

As Bill Ford commented in the past, “Any American who thinks they aren’t affected by the recent struggles of Ford and GM since they don’t work for either automaker had better think again. Why? Because you can’t take literally billions of dollars out of the U.S. economy without it affecting everyone in the country”

JR