The sad thing about that attitude is that THE MONEY ONLY GOES INTO THE HANDS OF POLITICIANS. (..how’s the $2Bil a week in Iraq working out for you?.)

There’s an ‘emergency’ spending bill coming up soon where the farmers are going to get another $2 Billion ‘emergency’ money – when the farm economy is in a helluva lot better shape than Aviation or Detroit. The last bill like it had the name, something like; “Farm Security Bill” so they could suck off the big spending teat after 9/11.

I’m not smart enough to know have a solution except banning bu_l sh_t vehicles like pimped PU’s (there’s none in Europe) and Hummers. Basically, ban anything over 3 liters, or get’s under 20mph in a legit city driving cycle… and fine any idiot driving his kid to soccer in a 8,000 truck.

j i m

ah. Ok…..

what exactly is an 8,000 truck? lol

Oh you gotta love this Tia Nelson…
Indeed she must be the pick of the litter box…
Dear Tia, have you considered the following facts ?
1) yes, in the US the price of gasoline/diesel is way cheaper than in Europe (I know very well, I come from there). This said, it’s not true that
“We pay less for a gallon of gas than anywhere else in the world,â€?…In many other countries gas is cheaper than here, the cheapest being in Venezuela where they pay some $0.18 per gallon. Get your facts straight, before blurting out half truths…
Also, why on earth do you seem to wish that in the US we ought to pay for gas as much as they pay for it in Europe ? Do you feel that the average American citizen is so rich that they have money to throw away for no reason ?
2) Tia…It’s not ONLY a matter of fuel for automotive consumption. How about heating costs ? I live in the snow belt and to heat up my home the bill has gone from some $160-170 per tank refueling in 2003 to $360-370 these days. Now, do you consider heating some sort of luxury ? I don’t.

Now Tia, please think before opening your mouth, thanks.

What an idiot…I am sure your father must be very proud of you. Yeah right.

Jim meant an 8000 lb truck, obviously. Personally I agree with him wholeheartedly (republicans are great at naming things, like the ‘clear skies initiative’, which doesn’t do a damn thing to clear our skies) and personally drive a 2.0-liter Turbo, it gets 200 bhp, which is plenty and has a 24 / 32 mpg driving cycle.

Jon.

1) In 1st world countries, the US has the cheapest gas rates.

2) The US simply stays with oil (and coal) instead of making either more nuclear power plants, or finding other renewable, alternative sources of energy. The reason gas is so much higher in Europe is partially because they tax the sh*t out of it (unlike the US, where we in our eternal wisdom give tax breaks to the gas and oil industry…I wonder why they have record profits? And why we can’t get off of oil?).

Jon.

Through his self righteous comments, I think Al has positively identified himself as the Idiot here. While he is certainly right that reasonably priced heating is not a luxury (so much for the cornerstone of the republican deregulation agenda), there is no reason for it to be tied directly to the cost of gasoline or diesel used in vehicles. And Americans will not move to high mileage cars as long as the price of fuel is kept artificially low. I HATE paying so much for gas! But that doesn’t change the reality of automobile market dynamics. I only wish that the extra money was a tax being used to cut our national debt (admittedly unlikely) rather than windfall profits (read war profiteering) for oil companies so their executives can have $400 million dollar retirement packages…

Jon is correct in his point about what drives the price here in the states versus Europe. The truth is, we buy oil on a world wide market. Any country purchasing from OPEC pays the same traded price. The difference between here and there is about $4 more in taxes for Europe.

Don’t be so hasty to say the US should be paying more in the essence of being “fair”. There is so much guilt these days that American apologists are so quick to throw away certain amenities in the American lifestyle because they are guilty for having them. We are a sovereign nation, and just because some other country is happy with high fuel bills does not mean we should be.

Driving a SUV is not a bad thing. If someone can afford it, so be it. If SUVs are terrible, then to Al’s point, any home over 2000 square feet should be a bad thing too. Add up how much your energy bills are for your home. Electricity, heating oil, propane gas, wood for the fireplace, add it all up.

Petroleum is not just a product we buy. It’s a staple we live on. You just can’t throw it away and say we all should be paying more because other people in some parts of the world do. It’s as much a staple as water and any other energy source is. If we should be paying more for gas, then the same will be for water and electricity. Do you want those to skyrocket through the roof too just because you NEED it?

Basically Tia’s right…And Jon. Take Denmark: 1 litre of gas will set you back about 1,66 dollars and yet the wheels still keep roling. And don’t forget that due to taxes e.g. a Cherokee 3,7 Limited aut. will cost you $ 94.000.

We have to recognize the fact that good ol’ oil isn’t going to be around forever. High fuelprizes will allow us to spend billions of dollars on research, developing new ways of making our cars run, we can stop being dependent on oil from the Middle-East, Venezuela, Russia and what have you. And maybe the scientist may even come up with something far more fun and cleaner than what we have today?

Basically Tia’s right…And Jon. Take Denmark: 1 litre of gas will set you back about 1,66 dollars and yet the wheels still keep roling. And don’t forget that due to taxes e.g. a Cherokee 3,7 Limited aut. will cost you $ 94.000.

We have to recognize the fact that good ol’ oil isn’t going to be around forever. High fuelprizes will allow us to spend billions of dollars on research, developing new ways of making our cars run, we can stop being dependent on oil from the Middle-East, Venezuela, Russia and what have you. And maybe the scientist may even come up with something far more fun and cleaner than what we have today?

Jon, folks like Tia prevent us from pursuing nuclear power here.

If any of you think oil will run out anytime soon, google “oil shale” or look it up on Wikipedia.

Crude that’s taken from the ground after you poke a stick in the sand “may” become scarce in the far future, but there’s trillions of barrels of oil in shale…and guess who has tons of shale?

I’ve heard that argument, and the argument turning coal into gasoline (they already have the technology to do it). Have you seen the pollution that is caused by using oil shale? It’s simply smarter and more eco-friendly to come up with renewable power sources.

Jon.

Unless you factor in the 275+ trillion cost of the Iraq war you can’t say what we’re actually paying per gallon for gasoline. Then of course there are the 2000+ dead US soldiers. Perhaps what the President flippantly calls “our addiction to oil” could be put in perspective if we viewed our fuel economy figures in SPG, Soldiers per Gallon or God forbid, Iraqi Civilians per Gallon.

You have to love being nagged by some senator’s daughter –

If you love Europe so much and how the government tells you what to do and taxes you to death then move there – I myself am not hot about paying more to the government’s waste machine.

That woman needs a beatin

That’s a real smart way of looking at it: “the governments waste machine�. How do you think your fire department is paid? How about your national guard? Airport security? It’s all paid with taxes. Secondly, you live in a representative democracy; you don’t like how the people who were elected are spending your money? Vote them out of office and vote people that you think will do a better job. If you think you could do a better job, than

The argument “why don’t you go live there then� is a complete red herring. Instead of dealing with the problems here and realizing that some other countries might do something’s better than the US, you simply stick your head in the sand and complete avoid the reality of the problems facing the US.

Oh, and the comment “That woman needs a beatin� shows your erudition quite nicely; troglodyte.

Jon.

The debate over whether or not socializing everything and taxng the hell out of the public will rage on for quite sometime. I don’t think it is accurate to assume it is a superior system, as it has its pros and cons as does capitalism.

But we can all agree that we have a very wasteful government, and pet projects for “bridges to nowhere” and the like are killing us softly…

My messaged seems to have been cut off, but it finishes so:

‘than’ run for office yourself.

Jon.

Another log for the fire: Europeans expensive gas comes with healthcare; ours just comes with a receipt.

I’m not a fan of their overwrought social system but it doesn’t change the fact that they get some bennies with their overpriced gas.

To all of the Eurotrash wannabe’s: Just because the ultra left-wing liberal governments of your precious European Union choose to impose immense punitive taxes on everything involving or related to the evil reciprocating engine motor vehicle, resulting in insane motor fuel prices, that doesn’t make it something we should do. If I choose to drive a vehicle I like, and if said vehicle doesn’t get the same gas mileage as your average European non-powered ****-box tuna can sweat chamber, that is my right as an AMERICAN citizen. Go hug a French tree.

Where in the constitution does it say you have a right to break laws? Where? If they pass emissions laws, then you have to abide by them, period. If they raise gas prices due to taxes, then you have to pay them. Sure you can avoid paying the gas prices but simply not driving; THAT is your right. But if they pass emissions law’s restricting the type of automobiles you can use, then that’s what you are going to have to use. I just hate when people mention that everything is a ‘right’ and because of these ‘rights’ that are bestowed to them, they can do what ever they please. Thus, driving SUV’s becomes a ‘right’ and paying low gas prices becomes a ‘right’, as if the founding fathers had your ‘I feel like having an SUV, and I do what I feel like’ argument in mind when they drafted the constitution. Now tell me about Jefferson’s thoughts regarding nuclear energy…I’m ever so curious…

Apparently, the tax’s and how they work seem to be a lost concept to some people. So, I try again: in Europe taxes are much higher when it comes to gasoline prices, thus the price of gasoline is higher. I never stated that is something the US should do; I only mentioned it as a fact, in passing. At the same time, you only have to look

Go hug a French tree? Have you ever even been to France? Please don’t tell me you are another one of those “the best country in the world (which implies best at / in everything) without actually having traveled anywhere�…that type of ignorance is textbook.

Jon.

Dear Jon.
I am breaking no law. I have been to France. The job of government is to provide for our defense, and otherwise, get the hell out of the way, not penalize by taxation, therefore removing personal freedom. Don’t forget to change the oil in your Toyota Echo.
Best wishes,
Nick, BMW 545.

I have an Audi A4, thank you very much (2.0T)…

Oh, and BTW, BMW, had a press release out for circulation last week, in which they stated that they no longer cared just about horsepower, but also about better gas mileage, thus they are coming out with the 335 engine, which utilizes bi-turbo’s, instead of simply adding more cc’s. Also, BMW wants to be the first company to have a hydrogen-powered car out on the market.

Slowly, but surely the rain of gas is coming to an end…and that’s fine, because the problem with gas is not mainly that it is not renewable, but also that it is killing our planet. Or should I say, its killing humans. Sure, we screw up the planet, and maybe take 90% of the live on the planet with us, but that 10% will adapt, and will survive and will spawn new species and some other animal will become the dominant species on the planet, and will continue living. Whereas, humans will have long since perished from the earth. But, you keep on driving your V8…

Jon.

Dear Jon
Is there a number at which you can be reached as you are sitting, quivering, in a fetal position, while waiting for the sky to fall and the world to come to an end? What sadess to go through life worrying about the world and all of the wretches who mean to do it evil. Such is the life of hand wringing people everywhere.
Sincerely,
Nick

What part of fossil fuels are bad do you not understand? Oh, and ad hominem attacks are the first way to show that you have absolutely no counter-argument and at best can incorrectly attack my being directly, instead of tackling the issue.

And I suggest you get a friend or two who have doctorates in climatology (or the like) and see what they have to say all about this. Because, its just going to get worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you can give me your number and I can borrow your rose-colored glasses (funny, since you don’t like the French…).

Jon.

Considering that the huge increases in human lifespan is directly correalated to the maturing of the industrial age and the burning of fossil fuels, I fail to see how oil is killing anyone.

Dear Jon,
Thank you for saving the earth for me. I am eternally greatfull. Otherwise, we might as well be walking on the sun.
Warm regards,
Nick

It’s only the medical side of the industry that is helping to keep people alive longer (and often times unnaturally, which adds to overpopulation, but that’s another ball of wax). If you like at climate changes in only the last 100 years, you can see the havoc caused by releasing unnatural amounts of carbon into the atmosphere, upping the earth’s temperature at an increased speed. And effects of this can be seen by the increase of hurricanes and their intensity, for example.

I don’t understand, wouldn’t you rather have renewable, clean resources power your cars, rather than polluting the earth with fuels that will eventually run out?

Jon.

Sorry, that should read “if you look at”.

Jon.

Why should we care what other countries are doing? We should stick to worrying about ourselves and not the europeans or the japanese. We dont need alternative vehicles, just cheaper gas. There is no way a prius will haul a big boat for a family, much less haul a family. Just like the new Chevy Suburban commercial…every big family will want one instead of having 5 tiny roomless vehicles.

This is America’s fault in the first place, they were the ones that went to Tokyo harbor, pointed their guns and said: Trade with us or we blow up your city. We were the ones that reconstructed Europe after WWII; we were the ones that made the car economical and available to everyone. We were the ones that pushed McDonalds, and Starbucks, etc…and created the world global economy. The country was the one that helped the Saudis; that helped the oil industry (tax breaks, etc…). Not only are we the country that created globalization, we are at the head of it, and the leader in its perpetual movement, its central hub.

Way to go completely shrink from having any responsibility for the monster the country created. Better tuck tail and run, and pray that everything will be ok…

The reason we worry about it is because we live on the same planet as everyone else, because pollution in Africa piggybacks on the wind and gets pushed over Florida, and South Carolina, and Texas, and Mexico. Taking the same sentiment, that if you don’t like the US, you should go live elsewhere, how about: if you don’t like living on the planet earth and sharing with everyone else, how about you go live elsewhere?

We don’t need cheaper gas, we need better alternative engines. They are in their infancy, but a big push will provide a solution that will allow an alternative energy engine to push even a huge monstrosity like a Suburban (which, BTW, didn’t exist 50 years ago, when ‘big families’ used to be able to take trips perfectly well with a station wagon). Unless you think America isn’t innovate enough to create a great renewable engine?

Jon.

There is a group of people out there who seem to think they are Conservatives. True conservatism means taking responsibility for your actions. The impostor conservative mantra is “I’ll do as I damn well please because I’m an AMERICAN citizen”. These so-called conservatives only take responsibility for how their actions affect themselves. They think their responsibility ends by paying the price at the pump. These retail-conservatives are simply self-centered individualists. There is nothing conservative about sending your kids off to war so you can have cheap gas. The liberals are not the enemy, these impostors are.

Our modern, technologically advanced society is built on cheap energy. Which would be crude. Moving forward, we may move toward other forms of energy. But as long as crude is cheap and available (and it is available, be it in the sand or in shale) it will be the energy currency of choice. The future isn’t so bad after all, why fear it and sound alarms that do nothing but fuel the paranoia of the uninformed?

Junkie: Thus, gas prices should go up, up to a level where will be forced to seek out other alternative means of producing energy. Oil means we are at the mercy of the Saudi’s, non oil-based engines means we are not.

C. Martin: indeed. Thus, we should conserve fuel, conserve our economy / currency (the trade deficit with china is a joke), conserve our government corruption (Halliburton, anyone?). You notice that people are distancing (running) away from Bush by calling themselves ‘real Ronald Regan-Republicans’? No one wants to be a G.W. Bush republican, huh?

Jon.

Jon oil from proven, huge reserves of domestic shale means that we can still use relatively cheap crude and not have to depend on anybody.

Shale, gas from coal, ANWAR…these are all things that would reduce and even eliminate our dependency on foreign oil. Foreign oil, not oil, is the problem.

But in the end, better forms of energy will come on-line if it is not econimically feasible to use oil.

Yes, we do need to use something other than oil, like nuclear power, but we can’t because the same people who say we need to stop using oil also say that nuclear power is “dangerous”. Nuclear power is the safest, cleanest, and most efficent power in existence. But, whenever a company goes to try and build a nuclear plant the enviromentalists sue the comany for some frivoulous reason. Making it cost the company more to try and build a plant than it would be just to use a coal plant. Which kills as many people as if a nuclear plant had a full melt down every 28 days, which is impossible in the U.S. because of the plants we use. So are the enviromentalists really helping, because they are the single biggest threat to the growth of this country. With their useless ignorant paranoia, and bigoted views, they brainwash a society who fears thinking for themselves.

-lkaIII

“Have you seen the pollution that is caused by using oil shale?”

This company already has a clean method of extraction that doesn’t rely on 30-year-old technology:
http://www.oil-techinc.com/home.html

not developing an alternate energy system for a limited resource is insane. cheaper gas? yeah, it would be nice to have a government that cared more for its’ people than profits. as for the oil, i don’t have a problem with it if the mpg would improve annually. but if that happened, the oil companies would just raise the price per gallon. i’m not an paranoid environmentalist, but carbons are part of the reason the earth’s climate patterns are changing at an increasing rate. but until a competent government is ‘elected,’ no balanced approach that takes both sides represented here will begin.

I hate to say it, but changing our lifestyle isn’t going to change anything…God has a plan…Its up to Him to whether we have enviromental problems.

Gas needs to be $10 a gallon so ONLY few can afford to drive. Everyone else needs to take public transportation and car companies will soon need a market and start devoting R&D on cars that can make 3000miles a tank. The environment will clear in a few years. Fresh air for everybody. More exercize for citizens, resulting in fewer obesity rates. Less traffic, better public tranportation systems (with demand, suply follows). Safer highways, cheaper insurance rates, less DUI problems, less need for highway patrol (tax savings). Really, I could go on and on.

As far as heating houses… we need incentive to find alternative fuels for house heating TOO, so even better. Push the government to come up with incentives for cheaper, alternative, efficient house heating solutions. Popular demand will instigate an alternative source heating industry which wants to capiltalize on a newly created market and will lobby on Congress for incentives. Soon thereafter, the govt itself will be supporting alternative fuels because its all a big business.

@ post #6, rapcar:

I instead get the feeling that if there is an idiot around here, it definitely ought to be you. No doubts about it.

Now read here:
- FACT: I did NOT say that heating oil is directly tied to automotive gasoline/diesel.
- FACT: where I live, I notice that heating oil and automotive diesel have a very similar price. Coincidence ? I don’t know, most likely I think it’s the case.
- FACT: US gasoline/diesel prices are NOT the cheapest in the world.

Now, if you, Mr. Genius, can give me ONE, only one, reason why US gasoline/diesel/heating oil prices ought to be the same as in Europe, I’ll agree with you.

And finally, I, like I believe everyone else in this country, do NOT need to be lectured by a most likely very pampered senator’s daughter about the need for the US to have higher gas/diesel prices.
I work hard for my money and as long as this Tia Nelson does not pay for my gas and my heating oil, she can’t just stuff her various orifices with her idiotic words.

And the same goes for you…

pls change “most likely, I think it’s the case” with “most likely, I don’t think it’s the case”
and “she can’t just stuff…” with “she can just stuff…”.
Thanks.

It is easy to say things like that. Hard to change the current situation. Sure 5 or 6 dollar gas will get rid of lots of SUVs. But do you personally want gas that expensive. It is either you are willing to shell out lots of money, or the SUV/ pickup truck will survive. Gas guzzler taxes on SUVs and pickup trucks seem like an ideal way to get rid of these 12 m.p.g beasts. But the big three American car companies will definately go bancrupt/suffer immense financial harships if there are few SUVs/pickup trucks sold.

I have no strong opinions either way about “BIG OIL”, but understand one thing….the oil companies do not set the price of oil. The free market sets the price of oil. The price of each barrel of crude depends on many factors, including irrational speculation such as we see now. So to all of you condemning the evil oil companies for the high price of gasoline, folks, it ain’t their doing. All haters of big business will refuse to believe or understand, I’m sure.
Where is Jon?
Nick

“If I choose to drive a vehicle I like, and if said vehicle doesn’t get the same gas mileage as your average European non-powered ****-box tuna can sweat chamber, that is my right as an AMERICAN citizen.”

Well, at least you drive a European car [BMW 545i].

Although, if he lived in Europe he would probably drive a 520d…And I find it so patriotic that he drives a German car and not an American car (and the American car industry is in trouble and all) yet incorrectly states his ‘rights’ as an American.

Regarding ‘big oil’, they do not set the price at the back end (the speculative market; and I’m going to assume that big oil doesn’t play the market {fat chance}), but they do set the price at the front end (consumer / commercial pumping stations), and they set the price at the refinement state as well.

So yes, big oil does set the price of gas, since they control 2/3 of the process (at least, because oil companies control oil fields as well…which allows them to bypass the open market and keep gas for their own stations).

Jon.

Gee Al – I guess I touched a nerve – Well, one excellent reason that US automotive fuel prices should be as high as those Europe is that then Americans would buy higher mileage cars and use public transportation more. This would serve several purposes – reduce environmental damage, allow us to simplify or do away with the EPA mileage standards, and most of all, cut the power and income of many terrorist supporting nations. Of coarse, if you are in favor of terrorism…then we should just go on burning up as much oil as possible.

BTW – I looked up Tia Nelson, and she is 50-60 years old, and her father died years ago. Its unfortunate that the headline of this topic makes her sound like a teen hippie chick. I don’t think she qualifies as a stereotypical “very pampered senators daughter”. That said, I’m not sure why it would be important. She would never be any more pampered than the sons and daughters of the business elite, or the energy CEO’s who get private audiences with the vice president. As for big oil, I’m no enemy of big business, and truly believe in free enterprise, but a rigged market is a rigged market. Remember all those people who defended Enron and said that there was no way that the energy companies could be distorting the market to drive up prices? They could and they were. In oil we have a small group of very wealthy politically connected companies operating a massively complex supply and delivery system…sound familiar?

I think you have done such a nice with your blog. Best of luck to ya TajaC

Gas prices going up are a real world example of Tragedy of the Commons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

a analogy that describe what happens when each person in a given environment use that environments resources to their own interests. Basically, “living it up” stops working when everyone trys doing it at the same time. In this case, when the world starts burning gas like Americans.