http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

a analogy that describe what happens when each person in a given environment use that environments resources to their own interests. Basically, “living it up” stops working when everyone trys doing it at the same time. In this case, when the world starts burning gas like Americans.

BTW – I looked up Tia Nelson, and she is 50-60 years old, and her father died years ago. Its unfortunate that the headline of this topic makes her sound like a teen hippie chick. I don’t think she qualifies as a stereotypical “very pampered senators daughter”. That said, I’m not sure why it would be important. She would never be any more pampered than the sons and daughters of the business elite, or the energy CEO’s who get private audiences with the vice president. As for big oil, I’m no enemy of big business, and truly believe in free enterprise, but a rigged market is a rigged market. Remember all those people who defended Enron and said that there was no way that the energy companies could be distorting the market to drive up prices? They could and they were. In oil we have a small group of very wealthy politically connected companies operating a massively complex supply and delivery system…sound familiar?

Regarding ‘big oil’, they do not set the price at the back end (the speculative market; and I’m going to assume that big oil doesn’t play the market {fat chance}), but they do set the price at the front end (consumer / commercial pumping stations), and they set the price at the refinement state as well.

So yes, big oil does set the price of gas, since they control 2/3 of the process (at least, because oil companies control oil fields as well…which allows them to bypass the open market and keep gas for their own stations).

Jon.

Well, at least you drive a European car [BMW 545i].

I instead get the feeling that if there is an idiot around here, it definitely ought to be you. No doubts about it.

Now read here:
- FACT: I did NOT say that heating oil is directly tied to automotive gasoline/diesel.
- FACT: where I live, I notice that heating oil and automotive diesel have a very similar price. Coincidence ? I don’t know, most likely I think it’s the case.
- FACT: US gasoline/diesel prices are NOT the cheapest in the world.

Now, if you, Mr. Genius, can give me ONE, only one, reason why US gasoline/diesel/heating oil prices ought to be the same as in Europe, I’ll agree with you.

And finally, I, like I believe everyone else in this country, do NOT need to be lectured by a most likely very pampered senator’s daughter about the need for the US to have higher gas/diesel prices.
I work hard for my money and as long as this Tia Nelson does not pay for my gas and my heating oil, she can’t just stuff her various orifices with her idiotic words.

And the same goes for you…

As far as heating houses… we need incentive to find alternative fuels for house heating TOO, so even better. Push the government to come up with incentives for cheaper, alternative, efficient house heating solutions. Popular demand will instigate an alternative source heating industry which wants to capiltalize on a newly created market and will lobby on Congress for incentives. Soon thereafter, the govt itself will be supporting alternative fuels because its all a big business.

This company already has a clean method of extraction that doesn’t rely on 30-year-old technology:
http://www.oil-techinc.com/home.html

-lkaIII

Shale, gas from coal, ANWAR…these are all things that would reduce and even eliminate our dependency on foreign oil. Foreign oil, not oil, is the problem.

But in the end, better forms of energy will come on-line if it is not econimically feasible to use oil.

C. Martin: indeed. Thus, we should conserve fuel, conserve our economy / currency (the trade deficit with china is a joke), conserve our government corruption (Halliburton, anyone?). You notice that people are distancing (running) away from Bush by calling themselves ‘real Ronald Regan-Republicans’? No one wants to be a G.W. Bush republican, huh?

Jon.

Way to go completely shrink from having any responsibility for the monster the country created. Better tuck tail and run, and pray that everything will be ok…

The reason we worry about it is because we live on the same planet as everyone else, because pollution in Africa piggybacks on the wind and gets pushed over Florida, and South Carolina, and Texas, and Mexico. Taking the same sentiment, that if you don’t like the US, you should go live elsewhere, how about: if you don’t like living on the planet earth and sharing with everyone else, how about you go live elsewhere?

We don’t need cheaper gas, we need better alternative engines. They are in their infancy, but a big push will provide a solution that will allow an alternative energy engine to push even a huge monstrosity like a Suburban (which, BTW, didn’t exist 50 years ago, when ‘big families’ used to be able to take trips perfectly well with a station wagon). Unless you think America isn’t innovate enough to create a great renewable engine?

Jon.

Jon.

I don’t understand, wouldn’t you rather have renewable, clean resources power your cars, rather than polluting the earth with fuels that will eventually run out?

Jon.

And I suggest you get a friend or two who have doctorates in climatology (or the like) and see what they have to say all about this. Because, its just going to get worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you can give me your number and I can borrow your rose-colored glasses (funny, since you don’t like the French…).

Jon.

Oh, and BTW, BMW, had a press release out for circulation last week, in which they stated that they no longer cared just about horsepower, but also about better gas mileage, thus they are coming out with the 335 engine, which utilizes bi-turbo’s, instead of simply adding more cc’s. Also, BMW wants to be the first company to have a hydrogen-powered car out on the market.

Slowly, but surely the rain of gas is coming to an end…and that’s fine, because the problem with gas is not mainly that it is not renewable, but also that it is killing our planet. Or should I say, its killing humans. Sure, we screw up the planet, and maybe take 90% of the live on the planet with us, but that 10% will adapt, and will survive and will spawn new species and some other animal will become the dominant species on the planet, and will continue living. Whereas, humans will have long since perished from the earth. But, you keep on driving your V8…

Jon.

Apparently, the tax’s and how they work seem to be a lost concept to some people. So, I try again: in Europe taxes are much higher when it comes to gasoline prices, thus the price of gasoline is higher. I never stated that is something the US should do; I only mentioned it as a fact, in passing. At the same time, you only have to look

Go hug a French tree? Have you ever even been to France? Please don’t tell me you are another one of those “the best country in the world (which implies best at / in everything) without actually having traveled anywhere�…that type of ignorance is textbook.

Jon.

I’m not a fan of their overwrought social system but it doesn’t change the fact that they get some bennies with their overpriced gas.

‘than’ run for office yourself.

Jon.

But we can all agree that we have a very wasteful government, and pet projects for “bridges to nowhere” and the like are killing us softly…

The argument “why don’t you go live there then� is a complete red herring. Instead of dealing with the problems here and realizing that some other countries might do something’s better than the US, you simply stick your head in the sand and complete avoid the reality of the problems facing the US.

Oh, and the comment “That woman needs a beatin� shows your erudition quite nicely; troglodyte.

Jon.

If you love Europe so much and how the government tells you what to do and taxes you to death then move there – I myself am not hot about paying more to the government’s waste machine.

Jon.

If any of you think oil will run out anytime soon, google “oil shale” or look it up on Wikipedia.

Crude that’s taken from the ground after you poke a stick in the sand “may” become scarce in the far future, but there’s trillions of barrels of oil in shale…and guess who has tons of shale?

We have to recognize the fact that good ol’ oil isn’t going to be around forever. High fuelprizes will allow us to spend billions of dollars on research, developing new ways of making our cars run, we can stop being dependent on oil from the Middle-East, Venezuela, Russia and what have you. And maybe the scientist may even come up with something far more fun and cleaner than what we have today?

We have to recognize the fact that good ol’ oil isn’t going to be around forever. High fuelprizes will allow us to spend billions of dollars on research, developing new ways of making our cars run, we can stop being dependent on oil from the Middle-East, Venezuela, Russia and what have you. And maybe the scientist may even come up with something far more fun and cleaner than what we have today?

Don’t be so hasty to say the US should be paying more in the essence of being “fair”. There is so much guilt these days that American apologists are so quick to throw away certain amenities in the American lifestyle because they are guilty for having them. We are a sovereign nation, and just because some other country is happy with high fuel bills does not mean we should be.

Driving a SUV is not a bad thing. If someone can afford it, so be it. If SUVs are terrible, then to Al’s point, any home over 2000 square feet should be a bad thing too. Add up how much your energy bills are for your home. Electricity, heating oil, propane gas, wood for the fireplace, add it all up.

Petroleum is not just a product we buy. It’s a staple we live on. You just can’t throw it away and say we all should be paying more because other people in some parts of the world do. It’s as much a staple as water and any other energy source is. If we should be paying more for gas, then the same will be for water and electricity. Do you want those to skyrocket through the roof too just because you NEED it?

2) The US simply stays with oil (and coal) instead of making either more nuclear power plants, or finding other renewable, alternative sources of energy. The reason gas is so much higher in Europe is partially because they tax the sh*t out of it (unlike the US, where we in our eternal wisdom give tax breaks to the gas and oil industry…I wonder why they have record profits? And why we can’t get off of oil?).

Jon.

Jon.