Comments on: Fiat and Alfa Romeo set to debut camless engine technology http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html Car news, reviews, and specs for the auto-industry Mon, 09 Nov 2009 03:21:25 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Ulpian http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350736 Ulpian Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:20:28 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350736 First of all, there will be fewer moving parts in this head, and so less to go wrong. Secondly, Fiat has been refining the technology for years now and has never launched a new engine that was not reliable. Moreover, as far as Fiat's technology is concerned, it was Fiat that invented and, on the Alfa 159, introduced the modern common rail diesel engine, now copied by everyone. Fiat intends to keep the new Multiair technology to itself for a while and not sell its engines to other manufacturers, like GM for example, as it presently does with its diesel engines. But possibly the greatest advantage of these new engines is the fact that, as well as improving performance and cutting consumption, they cut CO2 emissions by 50%. First of all, there will be fewer moving parts in this head, and so less to go wrong.
Secondly, Fiat has been refining the technology for years now and has never launched a new engine that was not reliable.
Moreover, as far as Fiat’s technology is concerned, it was Fiat that invented and, on the Alfa 159, introduced the modern common rail diesel engine, now copied by everyone.

Fiat intends to keep the new Multiair technology to itself for a while and not sell its engines to other manufacturers, like GM for example, as it presently does with its diesel engines.

But possibly the greatest advantage of these new engines is the fact that, as well as improving performance and cutting consumption, they cut CO2 emissions by 50%.

]]> By: Blakkarr http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350266 Blakkarr Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:21:21 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350266 Global_lightning, Actually the technology uses electromagnets instead of a cam shaft to articulate the valve rods. They generally work faster and require far less lubricant to function. It would be a vast improvement over the current technology. It is probably to first real improvement that makes sense to the ICE in quite a long time. Global_lightning,

Actually the technology uses electromagnets instead of a cam shaft to articulate the valve rods. They generally work faster and require far less lubricant to function. It would be a vast improvement over the current technology. It is probably to first real improvement that makes sense to the ICE in quite a long time.

]]> By: Get Real http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350253 Get Real Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:51:42 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350253 Love that quality too. Between Fiat and Alfa I see a lot of waranty work on what will be very complex electronics. Love that quality too.

Between Fiat and Alfa I see a lot of waranty work on what will be very complex electronics.

]]> By: V2 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350179 V2 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:49:54 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350179 Italian engineering and cars just gets better and better.....take note US and learn. Italians.....gotta love em’ Italian engineering and cars just gets better and better…..take note US and learn. Italians…..gotta love em’

]]> By: global_lightning http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350158 global_lightning Tue, 08 Jan 2008 03:46:50 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350158 Blakkar, You'll pry my pushrods from my cold, dead hands. :0 Blakkar,
You’ll pry my pushrods from my cold, dead hands. :0

]]> By: Blakkarr http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350156 Blakkarr Tue, 08 Jan 2008 03:30:41 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350156 I have always said that Rotary engines need more research unfortunately, no one besides Mazda is dedicating any meaningful time and resource to that end. But i would think that someone could make a Rotary engine that was very efficient, though maybe not MAZDA, if you gave them time and resource to do it. The main problem is the engines overall simplicity. There is nothing to really adjust dynamically for best efficiency and effect. So something more involved would be needed. An actual valve train, one could use the Camless Technology to avoid any needless complexity, would be a good start. Actually this would fix a lot of the Rotary engines problems with emissions, efficiency, and power. Durability, I still think would need to addressed with materials. Anyway, this sounds cool and could make tuning and modding an engine fun again. Not to mention make for a more responsive, conceivably durable, engine. Dirt cheap and easy to install, once you figure the engine control system. But you know DETROIT will be the last ones on the block to use it. The first being the C7 CORVETTE (maybe). I have always said that Rotary engines need more research unfortunately, no one besides Mazda is dedicating any meaningful time and resource to that end. But i would think that someone could make a Rotary engine that was very efficient, though maybe not MAZDA, if you gave them time and resource to do it.

The main problem is the engines overall simplicity. There is nothing to really adjust dynamically for best efficiency and effect. So something more involved would be needed. An actual valve train, one could use the Camless Technology to avoid any needless complexity, would be a good start. Actually this would fix a lot of the Rotary engines problems with emissions, efficiency, and power. Durability, I still think would need to addressed with materials.

Anyway, this sounds cool and could make tuning and modding an engine fun again. Not to mention make for a more responsive, conceivably durable, engine. Dirt cheap and easy to install, once you figure the engine control system.

But you know DETROIT will be the last ones on the block to use it. The first being the C7 CORVETTE (maybe).

]]> By: jonmiles http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350148 jonmiles Tue, 08 Jan 2008 03:00:59 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350148 kansei - rotarys might make a lot of power for thier size, but they definately are not fuel efficient in any way shape or form kansei – rotarys might make a lot of power for thier size, but they definately are not fuel efficient in any way shape or form

]]> By: jonmiles http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350147 jonmiles Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:59:27 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350147 Sick technology. Awesome to think that this could hit the consumer market Sick technology. Awesome to think that this could hit the consumer market

]]> By: autonut http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350143 autonut Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:44:23 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350143 Renault cars not sold in civilized world, but they popular in Romania (birthplace of Borat movie). Renault cars not sold in civilized world, but they popular in Romania (birthplace of Borat movie).

]]> By: JSP http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350140 JSP Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:07:30 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350140 I think F1 only uses pneumatic system to replace the springs for closing the valves. Valve opening is still done by camshafts. http://www.pureluckdesign.com/ferrari/f1engine/valvesystem1.jpg I think F1 only uses pneumatic system to replace the springs for closing the valves. Valve opening is still done by camshafts. http://www.pureluckdesign.com/ferrari/f1engine/valvesystem1.jpg

]]> By: deutschetouring1337 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350136 deutschetouring1337 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:45:09 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350136 Well Renault was the first back in 02-03 and I'm suprised it didnt make it into any motorsport publications even then. Well Renault was the first back in 02-03 and I’m suprised it didnt make it into any motorsport publications even then.

]]> By: Veda http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350131 Veda Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:19:14 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350131 Anything to break away from the conventional engine design is welcome. Anything to break away from the conventional engine design is welcome.

]]> By: autonut http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350050 autonut Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:40:25 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350050 Even if hype subsides and we find that it is 10-15% in addition to greater reliability (less moving parts) it is great move forward. I am sure FIAT will use it on diesel engine as well and 35 mpg for midsize car becomes a cinch by 2012. In short in camless engine valves are operated by electrical actuators. Hence the fuel savings since there are less parasitic losses on shaft(s). Valves are of overhead type. Even if hype subsides and we find that it is 10-15% in addition to greater reliability (less moving parts) it is great move forward. I am sure FIAT will use it on diesel engine as well and 35 mpg for midsize car becomes a cinch by 2012.
In short in camless engine valves are operated by electrical actuators. Hence the fuel savings since there are less parasitic losses on shaft(s). Valves are of overhead type.

]]> By: LP640 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-350009 LP640 Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:07:18 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-350009 20% will be a HUGE difference especially in the 500 20% will be a HUGE difference especially in the 500

]]> By: SwerveEarly http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349999 SwerveEarly Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:59:13 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349999 What the hell? Anyone know anything technically about this? I have heard that F1 uses camless and its servo actuated but thats all I have been able too find out about this technology. What the hell? Anyone know anything technically about this? I have heard that F1 uses camless and its servo actuated but thats all I have been able too find out about this technology.

]]> By: Z06ified http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349990 Z06ified Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:44:56 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349990 Not to mention any of the 2-stroke gasoline and 2-stroke diesel vehicles that have been produced over the years (not many, but they have been produced, and they didn't have any cams or valves). Same for any electric car produced. I think the editor was a little too quick to type up that statement without thinking if it was true first. Not to mention any of the 2-stroke gasoline and 2-stroke diesel vehicles that have been produced over the years (not many, but they have been produced, and they didn’t have any cams or valves). Same for any electric car produced.

I think the editor was a little too quick to type up that statement without thinking if it was true first.

]]> By: kansei http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349978 kansei Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:20:21 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349978 "could be the first vehicles to roll of the production floor without a cam or camshaft under the hood" UMMMMMMM wankel/renesis rotary anyone? It's been done for many decades. No need for solenoids that may not be reliable, and no need for cam complexity. Granted they're not perfect but piston engines also have their drawbacks. “could be the first vehicles to roll of the production floor without a cam or camshaft under the hood”

UMMMMMMM wankel/renesis rotary anyone? It’s been done for many decades. No need for solenoids that may not be reliable, and no need for cam complexity.

Granted they’re not perfect but piston engines also have their drawbacks.

]]> By: Commodore http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349965 Commodore Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:51:32 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349965 That should be useful for automakers like Toyoda that seem to be unable to make cars with camshafts that don't snap (see Tundra) That should be useful for automakers like Toyoda that seem to be unable to make cars with camshafts that don’t snap (see Tundra)

]]> By: johnnycanuck http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349953 johnnycanuck Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:08:48 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349953 Good stuff jdude. Still, nice to know some forms of racing (NASCAR slag) are having technology trickle down to the mortal world. Good stuff jdude. Still, nice to know some forms of racing (NASCAR slag) are having technology trickle down to the mortal world.

]]> By: hfry http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349952 hfry Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:08:35 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349952 SWEEt..... SWEEt…..

]]> By: jamaicandude http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349940 jamaicandude Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:51:29 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349940 Yeah. I always knew they used it in F1, but I still can't see it on the street for now. F1 engines only have to last a few race weekends, idle at speeds higher than most street cars redline and don't have to worry about driveability issues. When you think about it, cam lobes are carefully ground to control velocity variable to engine speed. They need to do this smoothly, and at low engine speeds as well, opening as well as closing and not slamming into the valve seats. F1 cars never see very low rpms. And @ an engine speed of let's say 8000 rpm, you're looking at probably around 4000 actuations per second. I just don't see electromagnetic solenoids lasting very long, or being very streetable just yet. It would be great if they could prove me wrong though. I'm hoping they do. On paper it seems very efficient. Yeah. I always knew they used it in F1, but I still can’t see it on the street for now. F1 engines only have to last a few race weekends, idle at speeds higher than most street cars redline and don’t have to worry about driveability issues. When you think about it, cam lobes are carefully ground to control velocity variable to engine speed. They need to do this smoothly, and at low engine speeds as well, opening as well as closing and not slamming into the valve seats. F1 cars never see very low rpms. And @ an engine speed of let’s say 8000 rpm, you’re looking at probably around 4000 actuations per second. I just don’t see electromagnetic solenoids lasting very long, or being very streetable just yet. It would be great if they could prove me wrong though. I’m hoping they do. On paper it seems very efficient.

]]> By: johnnycanuck http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349920 johnnycanuck Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:06:11 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349920 I have watched F1 for years and this is the first I've heard of this technology. No wonder they can spin those lumps at close to 20,000 rpm. I have watched F1 for years and this is the first I’ve heard of this technology. No wonder they can spin those lumps at close to 20,000 rpm.

]]> By: CA36GTP http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349918 CA36GTP Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:02:01 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349918 I'd love to see the in-depth details on this system. Sounds revolutionary. I’d love to see the in-depth details on this system. Sounds revolutionary.

]]> By: jamaicandude http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349917 jamaicandude Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:01:31 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349917 The '03 6.0 liter Powerstroke Ford motor used something similar, developed by Navistar. From what I've heard, they're not very reliable. They switched back to conventional cams after about 3 years. I'm all for technology, but this seems like so many things to go wrong. Solenoids wear out and fail... what if a fuse blows? It might be viable in a few years, and the technology does hold some promise but I'm not so sure it's ready for prime time yet. The ‘03 6.0 liter Powerstroke Ford motor used something similar, developed by Navistar. From what I’ve heard, they’re not very reliable. They switched back to conventional cams after about 3 years. I’m all for technology, but this seems like so many things to go wrong. Solenoids wear out and fail… what if a fuse blows? It might be viable in a few years, and the technology does hold some promise but I’m not so sure it’s ready for prime time yet.

]]> By: roger426 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349913 roger426 Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:46:23 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349913 Yeah GM has worked on this, and I thought Eaton corporation had a paten pending...but apparently not. Yeah GM has worked on this, and I thought Eaton corporation had a paten pending…but apparently not.

]]> By: Brendino http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349912 Brendino Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:42:20 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349912 So are any of the Big 6 in America working on this? So are any of the Big 6 in America working on this?

]]> By: global_lightning http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349907 global_lightning Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:36:24 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349907 This has been the Holy Grail of gasoline engines since the first Otto design. This would lead to a huge improvement in power, fuel economy, and emissions. All the other technologies (VTEC, VANOS, VVTi, etc...) are just tinkering around the edges. This has been the Holy Grail of gasoline engines since the first Otto design. This would lead to a huge improvement in power, fuel economy, and emissions. All the other technologies (VTEC, VANOS, VVTi, etc…) are just tinkering around the edges.

]]> By: meanpants555 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349904 meanpants555 Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:31:09 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349904 It's impressive that Lotus Engineering can keep up with a giant like Fiat. It’s impressive that Lotus Engineering can keep up with a giant like Fiat.

]]> By: planet_drive http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349899 planet_drive Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:14:59 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349899 Sounds like a great idea and they should invest heavily in this technology because it sounds like the new future in cumbustion engines. I'm just surprised Fiat is the first one to do this and not Toyota or Honda or Mercedes. Sounds like a great idea and they should invest heavily in this technology because it sounds like the new future in cumbustion engines. I’m just surprised Fiat is the first one to do this and not Toyota or Honda or Mercedes.

]]> By: corvette http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html/comment-page-1#comment-349894 corvette Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:07:13 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/fiat-and-alfa-romeo-set-to-debut-camless-engine-technology.html#comment-349894 20% just from that should help a lot. 20% just from that should help a lot.

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