Comments on: Chrysler to import Transit Connect-rivaling, Ram-badged Fiat Doblo

By: gogogodzilla

gogogodzilla — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:15:02 +0000

Wow, that is one butt-ugly mini-utility-van.

Almost as bad as the @ss-tek.

By: volo

volo — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:27:48 +0000

@fan
I well know the scrapping scheme was not bundled to a national manufacturer because it is forbidden by the european Comission. But we all know that French are buying mostly french cars, german mostly german cars, italian mostly italian cars and Britain mostly american cars. Why on earth would a country which does not produce cars would make a car scrapping scheme? To save the ass of incompetent dealers?
The french launched this scrapping scheme in Europe by the way, and it was tied to buy a car generating a certain amount of CO2, and surprise surprise, the french cars were nearly all below this margin.

Secondly, your statement about asian cars getting a big share of the scrapping program, I beg to differ. I read every month the car sales in France for example, and Hyundai/Kia are VERY marginal, around 2000 cars per month, whereas PSA + Renault sell more than 100 000 cars (see the link)
http://news.mongenie.com/news.asp?pk=7300&kw=achat+voiture
The trend is the same in all of Europe, the only asian manufacturer worth to be quoted in Europe is Toyota, but they mostly sell their microcar Toyota Aygo (developped with PSA, and built in eastern europe in a common factory), and the corolla.

Thirdly, Fiat Ducato IS mostly a rebadged version. Maybe PSA gave some inputs for the last generation but that’s it. Don’t forget that Fiat has IVECO, PSA has less experience in Van than Fiat, this is why PSA approached them. Peugeot boxer for example is sold with 2 engines: 2.2 Hdi and 3.0Hdi. PSA has no 3.0 Hdi engine, it is sold using the IVECO 3.0 engine, the 2.2 Hdi is the PSA one.
Concerning the number 1 Van in Europe, I cannot find any reliable tables summing up the total European sales by model type. If you find one, be my guest.

By: fan

fan — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:27:33 +0000

rpm: im afraid you were told wrong. theres hardly a better place to purchase a german premium car than in the united states… no better place to get a deal…
i thought the same you just posted, but its vice versa: a friend of mine from europe regularly gets his new mercedes from the states; says hes saving more than 30% compared to a similar model in europe. oh, and that includes shipping the car to hamburg, getting it though customs and having it modified to match the german regulations (headlights, catalytic converters some times, that kind of stuff)
and i hear its not just mercedes; its the very same for BMW, Audi and even Porsche… VW, too…
i do know, though, why people tend to think so, though: you see way more mercs beemers and audis in germany, or europe in general, than you do see here… but thats because people, especially germans, seem to be willing to pay more for their car…

By: rpmfan

rpmfan — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:19:42 +0000

@ fan

In Europe, specifically Germany, BMW and Mercedes are not nearly as expensive as they are here. Yes, they’re in a higher class, but price wise, not like here in the US. At least that’s what I have been told and read.

By: fan

fan — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:42:07 +0000

@volo: you do know that the german car scrappage was not bundled to buying a car from a german manufacturer? the companies that profited most of the bonus was – among a heap of asian ones – fiat, as their cars are among the cheapest offered in germany, so a 2500 euro rebate is quite something, whereas Mercedes along with the other premium-manufacturers hardly profited off the program…

and for the ducato: its not quite a rebadge. Peugeot, Citroen and Fiat developed the car they sell as Ducato/Boxer/Jumper together, in a shared effort…
also, judging from germany, france and spain (which is, i must admit that, what i see of europe most of the time), the sprinter is by far the one you see most

By: volo

volo — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:36:17 +0000

@fan
1. Renault and PSA got loans from french government, Opel got promised 4.5b loans from Germany if sale with magna was successful, and 1.5b during the sealing of the deal.
Only VW, BMW and Mercedes did not receive any subsidies, and Fiat. Though you can argue that the Car scrapping scheme which sent in France, UK, Germany and Italy are also government subisides for national manufacturer, especially in germany where 2500 euros was offered if you threw you 10 year old car.

2. Johnyviking is right, for FIAT Vans. Fiat owns another company called IVECO. The flagship IVECO Daily is a best seller in Europe, better than mercedes sprinter or ford transit. Fiat Ducato is a smaller version of IVECO Daily. However I doubt the Fiat Doblo being so popular, I don’t see many of them on the streets.
Also, Fiat Ducato is also rebadged and sold under Peugeot Boxer and Citroen Jumper.

By: jdasch1

jdasch1 — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:56:46 +0000

Fiat has been in the US market 3 times before and left everyone on a bind when they left…here they are again…..teamed up with the government-unionized low CSI Chrysler. This van coming from Turkey is a money loser from the start like the Connect is for Ford….exchange rate unbalenced. Both will have to be built here for them to be profitable. Usually car companies like Ford don’t see a viable vehicle program until the volume reaches 80,000 units annually. Both of the companies together aren’t going to see 80k in this segment combined. This van looks like a good van, but the volume signals no profit for Chrysler, and that is what they need despirately.

By: fan

fan — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:04:46 +0000

johnny… explain… how are other european car groups having govt. subsidies?

also, “no 1 van in europe” is a title thats not saying anything at all… no1 in what? sales? crashes? price?

also, claiming that FIAT does so very well… last time i checked, they didnt… most of the european press is highly doubtful of FIAT has the power to survive the chrysler merger, and even without chrysler fiat wasnt doing too good.

still, i think FIAT makes decent cars, most of them at least. decent cars,, kind of underrated now and then, but decent nevertheless. i just dont see fiat doing THAT good currently…

prove me wrong, would love to see the info you seem to have that i dont.

By: JohnnyViking

JohnnyViking — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:34:45 +0000

Fiat is the only European car group running without any goverment subsidies, and they are doing so very well. These vans are no 1 in Europe, and I bet they would be a success in the states as well.Low consumption and emissions, and the small engines are actually quite rev-happy.

The difference between the Benz “merger” and the Fiat “merger” is that Fiat will lend Chrysler the newest and best technology. Since the Fiat Group makes the best engines in the world (they do, really) that could make a difference of being or not being for Chrysler.

I think Fiat will not fade away Chrysler. Fiat is not a known brand in the US, it would be easier to just make Chrysler better than build Fiat as a “new” brand. The 500 will probably be called Fiat, and some of the other small cars, but medium/big cars will still be branded Chrysler.

By: Smegley Wanxalot

Smegley Wanxalot — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:07:14 +0000

Sure the few daya ahead will be beautiful – until the subsidies run out.

By: beautiful

beautiful — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:13:42 +0000

I think the days ahead are going to be Beautiful for Chrysler.

By: DenverGuy217

DenverGuy217 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:59:30 +0000

I wonder if John McCain will buy one

By: Borat

Borat — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:49:00 +0000

85ZingoGTR, you are probably right. But didn’t Chrysler fade Chrysler away when their management decided to “merge” with Benz? That is when the fate was sealed, now is reaping of what’s been planted. Machionne is not on mission from God, he is improving FIAT. He expressed opinion that FIAT was too small to survive, he was looking for merger and then Chrysler “fell” into his laps. Perhaps it is the best scenario for all involved.

By: 85ZingoGTR

85ZingoGTR — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:28:10 +0000

Now we’re talking. Unfortunately I still think FIAT will fade Chrysler away.

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:18:39 +0000

And so continues the downfall of Chrysler. There won’t be any Chrysler vehicles left by 2015.

By: Me

Me — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:14:35 +0000

This will definitely need a crosshair grille treatment… Any photoshop masters here?

By: orangecones

orangecones — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:03:27 +0000

@mitzo…. US safety and envieromental spec…thats what.I am I am sure they can fast-track this thing and get it out a little faster, but it won’t be a volume seller for them, so it wouldn’t justify the cost.

@TomF…. RAM as a stand-alone brand is FIAT’s creation, therefore it will become what FIAT tells it to become. I agree that this thing, in current sheetmetal looks nothing like the current US-Spec RAM pick-up, but thats almost irrelevant, because neither does anything else in the Dodge line-up except the Durrrrr-ango.

By: CanadaCraig

CanadaCraig — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:02:36 +0000

‘Late 2011′ means TWO YEARS from now. That’s just silly. The van already exists. Obviously I don’t understand these things. I can see fall of 2010. I don’t know. Maybe someone can enlighten me. Does it have to pass N.A. safety and emissions tests or something? Is there a line up at the testing facility? LOL

By: DenverGuy217

DenverGuy217 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:59:12 +0000

I suppose offering more of these types of vehicles might help that segment grow. It doesn’t appear the Ford Transit is lighting up the sales charts thus far. I’m trying to visualize this with a crosshairs grille. How about a small Winnebago addition!

By: johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:53:26 +0000

I hope they shave the hair from under the wheel wells before they bring it over.

By: mitzo

mitzo — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:36:25 +0000

Late 2011? What takes so long?

By: JakeK66

JakeK66 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:34:35 +0000

They sell this in North Korea too… Now I can roll like a Commie!

By: TomF

TomF — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:33:35 +0000

It doesn’t express the Ram attributes at ALL — durability, thickness, toughness, big-truck allusions. But it’s a cool little urban package-hauler.

By: ajm11

ajm11 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:33:14 +0000

I think it will be good product to bring over. Just try and get it over here sooner than late 2011 as Chyrsler dealers really need new models now.

By: jzcarguy

jzcarguy — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:33:04 +0000

this things gona have a HEMI for sure! hahaha

its under Ram brand label? hahaha

By: acoom

acoom — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:22:01 +0000

Brilliant little van. Very fit for purpose.

But I also wonder how it is going to fare under the ‘Ram’ brand. It doesn’t really suit a quirky little Italian van…

By: fan

fan — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:55:14 +0000

was the MB Sprinter toughed up for being sold under the “RAM” label?
Those are actually quite decent little transports. Just about the right size for small contractors and in-town delivery, where a full-size van is too bulky – and need too much gas. (you dont need a big block for hauling boxes around town, when the fastest you can go is an average of about 20-25 mph…)

By: Smegley Wanxalot

Smegley Wanxalot — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:47:24 +0000

looks like a hydrocephalic Kia Soul.

By: reedfast

reedfast — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:44:50 +0000

shouldn’t it be a bit tougher if its going to be sold under the ram brand name?