how slow the gears of justice do turn

California is so very lame.

I won’t be buying their products then. GM FORD YOU SUCK!

Looks like Clarissa will be either walking or riding a bicycle since the lawsuit is against “the six largest automakers operating in America”, not just GM & Ford. Thanks for making your loyalty to foreign manufacturers glaringly obvious.

Weirdos!

And it’s because of those stupid laws that Diesels haven’t taken off in North America (yet). Don’t get me wrong, I’d like all cars to pollute less, but this is going way too far.

I am very loyal to foreign manufacturers as they make better product 90Z, and I am not ashamed of that. I don’t get your complaint.

Dear Clarissa,

“A court case by General Motors, Ford, AND OTHER AUTOMAKERS against California’s new emissions rules will go forward.”

Thank you.

While GM and Ford are spending millions to fight these regulations in court I bet Honda and Toyota are spending their money designing engines that will meet the new requirements. If GM and Ford win Honda and Toyota will still have cleaner cars. If GM and Ford lose then Honda and Toyota will have the only cars to meet the spec. It’s a lose/lose proposition for Detroit. Not to mention it’s terrible PR…

I can see the complaint with the folks in California. Definiteley a PITA. However, it seems California has been dragging the US manufacturers (and the rest of the country) along towards cleaner cars since 1966. I’d say there is a good chance we’d all be driving around with mobile smokestacks if somebody hadn’t done something about emissions.

@dl_caldwell,

Exactly. The Big Three has historically reacted to new regulations by developing strategies to fight them. The Japanese have historically reacted to new regulations by developing strategies to comply. The end result has been that the Big Three have to comply with new regulations eventually. The only thing is that they have lost time and money fighting new regulations that could have been better spent working on compliance. It seems they never learn.

Its not just Ford/GM involved in the suit. And dont think Honda isnt working against them as well in some fashion. AND almost all manufacturers are currently working on vehicles that go far beyond the new standards. If you have been reading the news here lately you would know that. The state of California should worry about it’s own sorry ass economic condition.

Car manufacturers should just stop selling cars in CA, then see how long they last. Then the politicians can make it illegal to register out of state cars since they don’t meet their extraordinary requirements…and everyone will be stuck riding bikes/walking.

OOh how horrible would that be snork? We’d end up even slimmer and more tan then the rest of the nation and our air would be cleaner and detroit would go out of business due to the lack of sales, I say go for it

And Californias economy is the 5th richest in the world, so I don’t see where sorry ass economic condition comes from

Fatstrat, “The state of California should worry about it’s own sorry ass economic condition. ”
California, if it were it’s own country, would be the fifth largest economy in the world. What poor economic situation are you talking about? You mean the one we HAD a few years ago… Right.
Los Angeles alone makes more then 95% of the worlds countries. But I Digress…
California leads the world in health, enviromental and technological advancements. We do so because we set high standards and expect people to meet them. If you can’t, your not trying hard enough. I don’t agree with them sueing the Automakers recently, that has more to so with us having the most blood sucking lawyers per capita then anything else. However, that might be a response towards the auto companies suing them back in 2004, which is what this article is about.

Snork, We ALSO buy over 1/3 of the countries cars. So, we have the power.

Good god Clarissa you are an idiot.

1) As it has already been pointed out to you this suite is not only from GM/Ford but from other companies as well.
2) If all of the car companies where to stop selling in California it would hurt the imports more than the domestics. Domestics combined make up a mere 33% of the California market, Ford having the largest share, then DCX, then GM (the GM/DCX might be switched, I don’t remember off hand).
3) Your love of VW/Audi is commendable, but ironic considering that they have worse reliability ratings than GM/Ford.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please do some research and check your facts before talking out of your ass.

Here comes 1973 again… only now we’ll get low horsepower from large cars to small cars no matter what you buy.

Kenny W, I love your country music, when’s your next record out?

Good one Clarissa.

Apparently Kenny Wayne, Fatsrat, and 90Z are ok with mediocre standards — for cars and themselves. And like car mfgs. of past, they too have never had anyone given them HIGH STANDARDS and GOALS to live up to, hence they cannot relate and can only whine or make excuses.

i think there needs to be GLOBAL emitions standards. waht good is it if CA has clean air if the states around it dont? and waht good is it if the US has clean car but Europe doenst?! They need to have a meeting and make a set of rules for everyone. and go easy on the diesels. think of all the cars we miss out on europe that could be sent over.

YourNameHere, what you speak of is called the Kyoto Pact… You know, the one that almost every developed countries Leaders accepted… EXCEPT our Redneck, dumbass leader.
California’s rules quickly are picked up by other states and cause a ripple effect through out the United states, North America and eventually Europe and Asia.

599GTB
I suppose Cali has no budget deficit and taxes there are the envy of the civilized world right? That is also why people move from there in droves. I am sure California springs to mind when most people are thinking of ‘excellence’.
But I digress.
Feel free to attact personally when you run out of constructive things to say.
I am college educated, have competed at the professional level in two sports, work in a very high tech engineering enviroment where we do more to promote and create sustainable development in a week than you or any of your sorry greenies will do in a lifetime. I also have parked my full size truck and now commute 40miles round trip on a motorcycle every day.
My point is (and blindlingly obvious to most thoughtful people) the California has better things to do than to continually screw with the automobile industry directly through law suits etc… The financial drain on both the state and the companies would indeed be much more useful elsewhere and it ultimately slows the process IMHO>

Fatstrat, you make a good point, however, the way the American Car company has been acting in the last 5 years (not including this last year) indicates that they would have been happy making Huge trucks, that guzzle gas, expell noxious fumes, but have more horsepower and torque then any of their comptitors. Don’t get me wrong, I am not a “Greenie” I am a realest and don’t want my kids or my kids kids to grow up in a hot, toxic stupid world. As I am sure you don’t either.
The way you move companies, especially Corporate Dinosaurs like GM and Ford, to act is to either offer incentives or threaten punishment.
RAISE THE BAR and let Darwin work em out.

(V)ike,
Two questions for you as I’m curious to see what you think.
1) Do you think that California or the cost of gas has had more effect on GM/Ford?
2) Is it the job of the gov’t or of the consumer to punish/reward corporate entities such as GM/Ford?

To Clarissa, my next album is coming out in 08. Look for it

Good point Kenny.
We are not the governments children.
This is so outside the job description (imho) of what government should do.
I also do not want a rotten enviroment for my kids. In addition, I dont want them to be constricted by the ‘nanny state’ either.

1) Do you think that California or the cost of gas has had more effect on GM/Ford?

Well, that’s hard to determine, however, I know that the emissions that cars have now are solely due to Cali’s standards, California is the ONLY state that is allowed to set it’s own air standards, as we had them before the EPA was even invented.
I think that the increase in MPG is due to the price of gas and consumer demand.

2) Is it the job of the gov’t or of the consumer to punish/reward corporate entities such as GM/Ford?
Both, in a perfect world it would be driven by consumers only, and the companies would be driven by MORAL standards, however there are a lot of ignorant consumers in this world. and Corporate America is a horrible example of Ethics. Especially in the US. Not to mention that US automakers have a very short and narrow minded view of economics. They think “Profit now with low cost/quality products” as opposed to, “make less profit now, build a car people want and get a good reputation and make more money that way”
This is also how they look at advanement of pollution standards. Why spend more now to benefit us in the future? Honda and Toyota have great cars with low emissions because thats what the Government of Japan has forced them into. BMW has great emissions and MPG because they know what the consumer, the world demands and they demand more from themselves.

Something tells me it’s Barbara Boxer posting under the screen name “Clarissa Posh Totty”. The lack of worldly understanding is uncanny.

My friend Richard. Again, a very simple view to a very complex problem. The problem with your explanation on domestics vs foreign is that profitability does not come down to simply ideology. If the big three would simply embrace eco-friendly hysterical regulations then they surely would be more profitable by spending more time moving forward than remaining stagnant. No. As it stands today, foreign car manufacturers like the Koreans and Japanese can manufacture a vehicle for far less than domestics. The great equalizer is tariffs. Honda, Toyota, Nissan and the whole lot of them have plenty of room to invest in R&D for this type of BS because the tariffs will be renegotiated. Domestics don’t have such luck.

And before anyone goes bashing them for not being able to react to mandates like this, (oops, too late) try operating a company where you have little to no control over your own employees. Just try it.

Piablo you are a knob jockey
James, like I care where you live as long as its next door.
90Z why do you care what i buy? I don’t care what you buy.

You continue to thrill me with your enlightening, insightful, and thought provoking commentary. Truely a visionary.

Cal sucks.

California and a few states on the East Coast are the ONLY states that matters.

Huh? Is you be educated anywhere in the world?

Piablo,
Ford spended the most on R&D. Watch “Autoline Detroit” with John McElroy. http://www.autolinedetroit.tv

R&D spending 2000-2006 in Billions of US Dollars:
Ford 8.00
Toyota 7.19
GM 6.70
DCX 6.67
VW 4.82 (2001-2003,2005)
Honda 4.52
Nissan 3.96
BMW 2.91
Renault 2.40
PSA 2.23
Hyundai 1.90
FIAT 1.84
Kia 0.58 (2002-2005)

Thats an interesting list. If I had to re-order the list by how I rank the manufactuers based on percieved commitment to R&D it would look very different.

I think the list would provide even more insight if it were ordered in percentage of revenue spent on R&D.

Vike, I would avoid envoking the Kyoto treaty if you want to maintain credibility. Especially lately as the mouthpiece for enviromental concerns and the lovely French Prime Minister have both recently stated that Kyoto is less about the enviroment than it is about leveling the economic playing field, ie, attemptimg to take the US down a couple of notches so the rest of the world can compete.
I agree here with the sentiment that good things rarely come from suits of this nature, unless of coure you count the rise in tax status for a bunch of lawyers a good thing.
A business will react to customer base faster than anything else. Let the market decide what it wants and as we are seeing now, companies like Ford/GM will either evolve or fade away. Californias resources could be allocated far better.
They have a large economy, that is for sure, but that does not mean it is to be envied.

All those hurtful comments..
I don’t know how Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Porsche, Maybach, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Maserati will comply with this rule.
I guess Hollywood’s A-list will be buying those import cars that most Californians drive.
Or will the Governator exempt these manufacturers so that his friends can live the exotic life.

By the way, I bet Honda, Toyota, Nissan are fighting this battle as well. For them it will be difficult to comply. Remember- all hybrids use gasoline.

Lanapat7, in the past, those cars you listed were forgiven. Basically, the purchaser is charged a large tax in the form of “Gas Guzzler” tax and all is forgiven. Since the quantities of those vehicles are extremely low, a few hundred to a thousand each as apposed to hundreds of thousands and even millions from brands like Toyota. Porsche may be the only one whose sale numbers may be too high. Now with the new law, who knows.

Bimmer, nice piece of information. I will now attempt to reword my statement in order to be right Who knows, I would be curious as to what they spent their bucks on in R&D. Ford’s new heat treated quiet frame? Well, to be honest, your info WOULD make sense. The problem is, we’ve been arguing about the past and not what is coming out in the future. Ford has been working on the regenerative braking system for their trucks and other hybrid technologies in that time frame. So who knows. We’ll see in a few years who has the most fuel efficient vehicles.

My comment still stands about unions!! Down with unions!