May9
Fisker took the wraps off its new Karma plug-in hybrid sports sedan at the Detroit auto show in January, and this week pre-production prototypes hit the road for extensive testing. At this stage, we were expecting to see come cobbled-together mules, but instead Fisker is already testing prototypes that look identical to the finished model — albeit covered by some camouflage.
These images might look similar to the spy shots we bring you on a daily basis, but they’re actually photos released by Fisker to drum up excitement around the new sedan.
Production is expected to begin in mid- to late-2009. The company says it has already taken 99 orders for the $80,000+ sedan. Fisker recently disclosed plans for a convertible version of the Karma, expected to hit the market around the same time. According to Vic Doolan, Fisker’s director of retail development, metro Detroit could be the ideal location to produce the Karma because of its available capacity, experienced workforce and proximity to suppliers.
Developed in cooperation with Quantum Fuel Systems Technologies, the project is a first for the independent automaker. Most hybrids either look identical to their gasoline counterparts (think Chevy Tahoe) or they have decidedly quirky designs (think Toyota Prius). But the Karma is different — it was designed from the ground up as a sexy performance sedan. It should come as no surprise that Fisker’s founder, Henrik Fisker, designed the Aston Martin DB9 and BMW Z8.
Normally known for building rebodied Mercedes-Benz and BMW cars, Fisker says the new “eco-chic” vehicles will not be built on an existing platform, but rather a brand new architecture. Fisker hopes to sell 15,000 vehicles at $80,000 to $100,000 apiece.
The Q-DRIVE powertrain technology uses lithium-ion batteries sourced from Advanced Lithium Power. The car can travel 50 miles on battery power alone, before the four-cylinder engine kicks in to turn the generator and thus make more electricity. An optional sport mode allows the gas engine and electric motors to operate at the same time, increasing performance. Specific horsepower figures have not been disclosed, but Fisker claims the car is powerful enough to hit 60 mph in 5.8 seconds and achieve a top speed of 125 mph. The car is expected to get 100 miles to the gallon and deliver a top range of 620 miles on a single tank.
The Karma will feature speakers — both inside and out — that will simulate a sound “like something between a Formula One car and a jet plane.” The feature is being implemented for pedestrian safety and added novelty.
Fisker currently makes the Tramonto–a restyled Mercedes-Benz SL55 coupe–and the Latigo–a rebodied BMW 6-series coupe. So far the company has delivered 14 Tramontos and is about to deliver its first Latigo, well short of the 150 unit target for each model.
Prototype photos
Detroit 2008 debut
Man, it’s looking good. I only wish the rear and the roofline/pillars were a little bit better defined.
it does look good. and i like 5.8 seconds to 60mph while getting 100mpg. but i still think the speakers are stupid.
yuckkyy…..
What a ****eous grille. Seriously this thing is dead before it even hits the showrooms. The biggest killer is the name…who on earth wants to drive a Fisker? Change one letter to a T and you get something altogether more unappealing
I hope it happens. GM, Ford and Toyota have been testing for years without a model to buy yet…can it be true that a little company like this can trump them all?? Amazing if it happens!
Sorry, it can’t be a “sport” anything if it’s a hybrid, and has to utilize speakers to make “sport” sounds. I don’t care how fast or sexy it is…it’s still a golf cart, and I already have one of those, thank you.
Bring it on.
Absolutely wonderful. It’s too bad I don’t have $80K-100K to throw at one car or else I would be sorely tempted to do this one.
Being able to use the Electric motors and skip the batteries at will to really floor it is a plus. A feature for all models form all makers in the future to take very seriously… even make mandatory for the definition of a Hybrid sport coupe.
golf4me,
Try to let it sink in, this is not a Prius or CAMRY Hybrid. This is technically more advanced and more effective in term of performance and cost. This is the future. A change as big to cars as the coming of the Jet engine was to Aircraft. This is just going to make making better, quicker and faster, cars vastly simpler. Gone are the heavy and expensive engines and transmissions. Just smooth silent electric power. Instant torque and horsepower. No you don’t have to have batteries, just use the generator all the time.
Golf cart? Funny coming from someone with “golf” in their handle. Stones and glass houses and all that.
While I’m not fan of the speakers I do understand the reason for them, they are there as much for Atmosphere as SAFETY. I’m sure they are not overly loud and can be deactivated at will but falls to the responsibility of the driver if they decide to go out “Stealth mode”.
Frankly I would rather the motors themselves made the sound. If you can make a muffler that can make a crappy four-cylinder sound like a sweet V8, then you can make a electric motor that sounds like a jet or a landspeeder or some such.
This is definitely interesting, and the testing and final product will be watched by many, but the “novelty sound” is simply stupid…does this car not include a horn? There is something to be said about stealth, and reducing the already constant droning this society hellbent on cars has produced. Have you ever gone out in nature and thought to yourself how quiet it is, and many other sound (that are more important) can be heard? Sure you have.
Blakkar…you must be young enough never to have smelled the sweet aroma of high-test coming out of your freshly jetted Holley 4bbl? Or, you just don’t care about cars. Or, you don’t drive at all, maybe. All of which are OK, but doesn’t qualify you to comment on anything with “sport” in it. I am not at all opposed to the technology, but it has it’s faults which you’d see if you put your Kool-aid down long enough to think about it. I think it’s effective in urban cities like LA, and for anyone with a stop-and-go commute, and really that’s where any advantage ends. Also, tell me something…how much energy and toxic materials does it take to make the batteries, magnets, etc of the electric propulsion system? The efficiency gains of a hybrid system in a “performace role” is negligible at best…go look up any LX400h or LS460h long term test. Then, what is going to happen to the batteries when they die? I say we bury them in YOUR backyard, then we’ll dig a well for your drinking water…whaddaya say? Unfortunately the automakers are being forced into making these rolling superfund sites because the blind sheep governments are forcing them to. I guess to prevent ol’ Gore’s global warming fiasco. Remember, he’s the same guy who invented the internet!!
Don’t even get me started on plug-ins. Even worse. The club where I keep my golf cart (see the golf reference now?) says it costs about $200/mo PER CART to charge them. (it’s a little expensive here) You know how much coal, or oil, or NG it takes to make $200 a month of electricity? For only a few miles of range, the equivalent of about 100miles? If your electricity ain’t coming from wind, solar, or nukes, then you are polluting the environment more than if you drove an equally new, PZEV certified vehicle…
Hell, I’ll be dead and buried soon, but I feel sorry for the coming generations if all they have to drive are essentially pumped up golf carts. Just doesn’t sound like fun to me…no pun intended.
It will use speakers inside and out to simulate a sporty sound?? Bwahhh hahahahahaha!!!! Are you freakin kidding me?? Will they be sold at Toy ‘R’ Us too???? hahahahahaha!!!!
I’m just thinking all dads and mommies have to do is to teach their children to look both ways of the street before crossing because eventually (or at least that’s what supposed to happen) all cars will come as quite as a picture, I think it’d be awesome to see a cool looking car like this making no sound while putting the pedal to the metal after a traffic light stop.
And yeah I think those speak are funny and tacky…
golf4 me (#10),
I would want you to research a thing before commenting on it. If you do not know the difference between a Parallel and a serial Hybrid is, their strengths and weaknesses, if you do not know what much of the world thinks of the LEXUS Hybrids and TOYOTA’s Hybrid program in general, then I have nothing useful to say to you on the subject.
Try to understand, to those of us that this truly interests, we know more about the ups and downs than you do. We also do not listen to or read only right wing conservative “rape the earth because you’ll be dead and gone anyway” propaganda. I, for one, subscribe to engineers and scientists rather than politicians though they can often point you in a good direction. Take the good parts with the bad parts and you will develop a better picture than either side alone will produce.
Nothing is perfect, but in the overall balance, conventional cars are slipping into “nasty bad things” hole while Electric and Serial Hybrids are rising pretty fast onto the “Wonderful great things” pedestal. reaserch and learn you’ll find much of want you’ve spouted to be in gross error.
You are way off base to try to equate Muscle cars to Hybrids. As I said, this is a change as profound as the Jet engine was to Aircraft. The Messerschmitt Me262, WW2, the first jet fighter, was not that much faster than other fighters of it’s day, but fast enough and capable of better maneuvers to be almost unbeatable. Today’s jet aircraft can easily out pace the Me262, and I don’t think I have to tell you want modern fighter craft are capable of never mind other aeronautical applications for the jet engine that have made modern flight possible..
Electric and SERIAL (not Parallel) Hybrids will rule. Better mileage, less expensive to own and operate, better performance. They are here their day is coming.
Also you might want to ask what all you are paying for with your golf cart. $200/month just to charge the thing is a total rip anyway you look at it. I’m sure you’ll find your are paying for a lot more, storage fees since I’m guessing you don’t keep it at home, probably fees attached to the golf course and maintenance of the cart itself. Electricity is stupidly cheap. You are likely paying only $20/month tops to keep the battery up.
Speakers, needed for safety but come off as really cheap. I would like to hear this thing before I pass judgment.
Still would rather the motors made the sound themselves.
They want to sell 15,000 of these? And they’ve taken a whopping 99 orders so far? Granted this a novel approach to the whole hybrid adventure, but wouldn’t Fisker have been better served by building a more conventional car to truly call their own? It’s a lofty goal to say that as a small independent you can do something the big guys cannot. And while it can be argued we’d be nowhere if it wasn’t for the entrepreneurial spirit, I’m just not so sure about this. What if Lexus brings out a hybrid LF-A? Sure it’s not a sedan, but if I’m committed to risking a hundred large on something that is essentially unproven, I would certainly be looking at the manufacturer’s track record and factory support as part of my decision process.
johnnycanuck,
They don’t have the same cache as other more notable marks,. After all, this is essentially a brand new company. But I’m sure they will be able to move around 5000 a year once word gets out.
Blakkar: the problem with 5,000 units is that if they’ve built their business case around 15,000 and investors are involved that’s the fast track to becoming an automotive footnote.
Sorry, Blakkar I DO know a bit about hybrids. I worked on the final development & durability testing of the original Prius. I also worked in the R&D side of the auto business for 15 years, specializing in emission control durability testing as well as overall pre-production vehicle durability, benchmarking, and final production shakedown, so I think I know a bit about the subject. When you have that under your belt, then let me know.
It does not matter what type of hybrid of which you speak, because they still have the batteries, and also the added weight of the batteries and motors. Do you know what those things are made of? How and where do they get those materials and how are they processed into a final product? No, I didn’t think so. It’s not an argument about muscle cars vs. whatever, my comment was to illustrate just how silly this particular vehicle is, that’s all. Hybrids will be a passing fad, but admittedly a decent stop-gap for conserving fuel overall — in the correct vehicle application and user environment. I’m all for saving every drop of fuel that we can, but it has nothing to do with the environment, just a matter of disliking waste of any kind. I also drive fairly economical vehicles, and my only “splurge” is towing my boat, and of course the boat itself!
Electricity is relatively expensive in my area, but in any case, you only get what you put into anything. Also, with a loss anytime you transfer it from stored energy to work. Just imaging running a golf cart motor (admittedly, not designed very efficiently, and consumes about 30x as much energy as a newer refrigerator) under load for 8 hrs per day in your home. It will be very expensive. In addition, my company was in charge of retrieving, storing, then dismantling all the EV-1’s when their leases were up and I heard on average, the users were paying about $150-200/mo to keep them charged in their homes, and that was nearly 10 years ago. So, I know of what I speak.
I guess I really don’t have anything against hybrids per se, just getting sick of hearing how they are going to “save the world” from I don’t know what. And this application is just about the silliest I’ve come across so far. Nothing personal.
golf4me- I’m weary of those figures. Nothing personal on your part either, but do you have any links or anything to your business, this project, etc.?
According to the current average price of electricity, it would cost about $2.80 to fully charge the batteries on an EV-1, for a 100 mile range. You would have to charge it nearly 4 times over each day, with a full drain of the battery to reach a figure like your posting.
If you want to argue that the charger wasted huge amounts of electricity, then feel free to as that’s simple ignorance. I remember owning a 350 electric scooter a few years ago, nothing special but I never noticed any, ANY major difference in my bill. A vehicle and an electric scooter are totally different things, but at $200 for charging such a vehicle, you think you would notice a small quota from that scooter.
But also, talking about efficiency. Even the “least efficient, oldest and dirtiest” of electric motors and batteries will be much more efficient than an internal combustion engine. Electricity is very highly efficient.
They already released the press photos. Why hide the car under masking? They need all the free advertising they can get. They should have a nicely painted model for testing so pics get posted everywhere.
golf4me (#18),
Obviously, you have your opinion, and I will not try (at least anymore) to change it. But I think you personal experiences and limited understanding of the engineering, whether or not you worked on the biggest crock in Hybrids, the Parallel hybrid (I could claim to have worked on a major product as well and you couldn’t prove it one way or the other either).
I have never been a fan of Parallel hybrids because they are grossly ineffective for the applications they are being commonly used for. Now the CHEVROLET Tahoe hybrid, where it is a benefit, and does not impede function, it works. For a commuter car, like the Prius, not so much. For a sports car? Not even. the added weight of the motor just to boost a large powerful engine at the low end is a joke in and of itself.
The Serial Hybrid, which uses a small gas engine to drive a generator, as in the Karma, to provide power for the motor is a much more elegant solution with a better future. The Engine could be replaced with fuel cells, when they are ready, or a battery pack. Motors are inherently superior to gas engines no matter how you look at it. The only problem is providing power for them. Easy enough given you could run a generator off a motorcycle engine, that will get as is over 50 mpg. A proper generator design can easy produce over 600kw of power more than enough to power a sports cars or work truck of more than significant capability. If you would get off you “it has to have batteries” kick, ignoring the starter battery, A Serial Hybrid does NOT require a ZFU (Zero Fuel Usage) battery. This can easily be just a method to use a smaller engine to greatly extend fuel economy with out impacting performance.
To throw out a solution because you, as you claim to have, worked on a gimmick product, by sighting problems people more brilliant than you in the time before, during, and since you have worked on the Prius are seeking and finding solutions for is foolishness. In many ways you sound like a lot of older people. If they did not find the solution it will never be found.
Hybrids are like computer technology, what was cutting edge 10 years ago is very primitive and obsolete now. Your complaints and concerns are dated and not fully relevant if relevant at all now. These are not the “steam-age” vehicles we all have grown up with. Their technology largely peaked in the 1960s, with continuous refinements but almost nothing actually new since that time. Hybrids are new and a dynamically changing technology. It is unsettling that what you worked on over 10 years ago is now being overlooked for a more advanced architecture.
The biggest problem facing battery packs for these cars is making and recycling those cells closer to where they will be sold. Once that is solved, the problem is largely fixed. Trust me, such huge, lead acid, NiCads and NiMh batteries will be outlawed before long. Trust me, I know my heavy metals and the processing, I’m a certificated electrician. Those are throw away batteries for the most part and really should be outlawed for such large applications as a full sized automobile.
I will NOT ask where you live but the truth is electricity is stupidly cheap. It also has been. In Texas, I know I would spend maybe $10-12/month is I charged a plug-in hybrid. I won’t touch a pure electric car because they just are not practical enough for my needs yet. In summer, that would be a monthly power bill of maybe $155-$165. I have a rare commodity, a house surrounded by large trees. Quite a minor exchange given that at current prices gas easily runs my commuter car nearly $200/month.
$12 or $200 a month? Yeah. I’d go with the $12 option.
johnnycanuck,
If I read correctly, as if LLN ever gets their 100% correct 50% of the time, Fisker means to sell 15,000 units total, NOT in a year. They worked low volume for a while now. That is where their business model is now too.
Pushing for 5000/year seems reasonable. After all, this isn’t a large car maker that can throw out 15,000 units all at once.
Investors know what they are getting into investing in a company this new and/or small. a total unit count of 15,000 and not that many a year makes since.
But for now, lets see where it all goes.
Relax dinosaurs I’m sure the design will accomodate a gas only engine. The name is dumb, but who was that idiot who said it looks stupid? Go get your eyes checked. The Karma is as fine as any car from Pinifarina that I can remember.
It is a fine piece of tech and a fetching car to boot. The engine is a gas engine.. to run the generator.
I get too involved sometimes. Sorry.
Naw, Blakkarr. Too involved is a term best left for paparazzi.
By the way, thanks for clearing that up about the 15,000 units. Much like my marriage contract it would have paid to read the fine-print.
Blakkar, in Montreal a typical electricity bill (electric heating) for a house in the winter may run $600-800. For an apartment, around half that. As a way of life, we’re taught to unplug chargers when they’re done chargin and switch off lights all the time to conserve $$$.
It’s not that cheap where I live, and we’re a major producer and exporter of Hydroelectric power (sold mainly to NY state).
I don’t claim to know what it’s going to cost to operate a plugin, but my hunch is “prohibitive.” Texas sounds like an economically great place to live.
Sorry Blakkar, to clarify I meant $600-800 per MONTH in the winter. In the summer, drops to $100 a month.
DeansterTJ (#26 and 27),
I see. A lot of electric heating, I’ll assume. That is pretty bad. Actually horrible by my reckoning.
I would have thought CANADA would have had a lock with natural gas for heating and such.
Texas and much of the Southwest is pretty cheap to live, but that may be changing as energy prices climb.
Canada is the #1 exporter of oil to the U.S., but we pay exorbitant taxes (48.5% max bracket at $110,000) and the highest gas prices in the Western HEmisphere (above $5.00 a gallon right now). Quebecers pay more money for hydroelectric power produced off the St. Lawrence river in Quebec than the New Yorkers who BUY it from us.
So where is all the ****ing money? There is a strong case to be made for normal democratic and capitalist philosphy, which is practiced in Texas (friends in Austin and Houston confirm this). Saudi Arabia exports similar volumes of oil, and is a tax-free state where everyone is rolling around in Maybachs and Continentals (I lived there in 1980-1991). I’ll never understand this place….