This is similar to the Prius recall, no doubt. The braking feel on these hybrids is low in order to maintain good fuel economy – which some people perceive badly. Just a little software tweaking needs to be done. Not a huge problem.

Hey Toyota, this is how you handle a potential problem. Are you listening? What’s that? You’re on the cell phone in your Camry. Ok, I’ll let you go.

This is how handle a “potential” problem?

First, losing brakes is not a “potential” problem…second, the proper way to handle it is a recall.

But Ford doesn’t ever do the “proper” thing…just ask anyone that had their spark plugs blown out of the head on their Modular (boat anchor) V8s.

@The Realist: hmm i dunno, i’d say this is the proper way to go, since the car isnt loosing braking power safety really isnt a concern… if it happens to someone, chances are they will just push harder on the brake, therefore stopping faster… unless someone is right on their ass while driving, an accident ’shouldnt’ occur.

for now a TSB is fine… maybe if Ford knew about it 3 years ago, let people die and get injured, all the while denying until the government forces a recall… maybe then Ford should do a recall

Ford seems to follow well in this situation. While Toyota gets itself to look bad, Ford is getting itself lookiong well by supposedly learning from another’s mistakes. And I believe them. My opinion of Ford improved as soon as I read the first paragraph. Boy, they did put on a wise robe these last days, due to the once king’s foolishness.

They should have recall their cars. C’mon Ford, you can’t hide behind Toyota.

I have new hope in Ford’s management. My next day-to-day car may just as well be a Ford. Just keep the wisdom working there.

I’m not sure how you can say “Ford seems to follow well in this situation”, considering the update was only released a couple days ago. Maybe they started out better?
The only difference between this recall and Toyota’s problem, related to the same issue, was that Ford has not dug itself into a forced recall with another related product. Same issue between this and the Prius, seeing how Ford developed their own system and use some related parts with Toyota.

Ford is taking advantage of the media hype over Toyota. By doing this now, they can fly under the radar like Chevy and Honda.

“maybe if Ford knew about it 3 years ago, let people die and get injured”

There is a significant, and obvious, difference between people getting killed due to a loss of braking ability and people getting killed due to unintended acceleration. Here’s a hint: one of them is due to driver error.

LISTEN!….

It’s just a software bug, all you got to do is upgrade software and reflash the PCM.

Ford found out a few weeks ago, and since they are pros at this, they know first find how to fix it right, then make a recall. Here’s a vid from consumer reports, and ya that’s when Ford took notice, as soon as someone said something, not after some chep fix with zip ties and dobble sided tape. (ya you Toyota, A-holes)

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/02/ford-issues-prompt-fix-for-fusion-hybrid-brakes.html

Ya, I said it, “since they are pros at this”…
But the best lessens learn, are the ones from your mistakes…

“Ford found out a few weeks ago, and since they are pros at this, they know first find how to fix it right, then make a recall.”

You are completely wrong. Ford found out and fixed the issue in October on the assembly line…per employees at the plant.

ONLY when Consumer Reports experienced the issue, Ford issues a TSB..not a recall. And that happened almost 4 months ago.

Furthermore, the Prius regains it’s normal brakes in less than a second while the Ford completely loses braking power and sets off numerous warning lights on the dash…that are only cleared by “resetting” the car. That, in it’s most absolute form, is a braking failure. Ford produced cars whose brakes FAIL.

Toyota, found their issue in January, and issued a TSB in very early Feb.

Ford quality…is still a myth.

braking systems on hybrid vehicles are different than your ordinary vehicles. This is because brakes are used to recover energy that is used to charge the batteries. In the toyota system, it uses both hydraulic and then the “hybrid” braking system. In swithcing between two modes is where the problem with the Prius is. Supposedly there is a one second lag between switching from one mode to the other
That is too long especially in panic stops.

Ford licensed its hybrid drive from toyota many years ago. This is how they were able to come up with the Escape/Mariner hybrid system immediately after Prius gen 2 came out. Not quite sure if the Milan/Fusion system is ford home grown or the toyota hybrid drivetrain. .

but in any case, toyota is not the only hybrid vehicle that recovers energy from braking. GM hybrids do the same thing. It just feels different is what the feedback was, when asked how braking in hybrids compare to ordinaly vehicles. Whatever the problem is with the braking system on the Prius it is on the Gen 3 not the Gen 2 and Gen1 version of the prius.

Nice timing on Ford though, they fix their problems while the whole world is watching Toyota. Good move. Nobody would notice. Alan Mulaly has proven to be a good hire for Ford. He did wonders for Boeing and he is doing the same thing for Ford.

The Realist- Find me one link that describes the problem that you JUST described, and I’ll be happy.

Oh, and I mean, aside from Consumer Reports. What David Champion had was his own fault- the brakes never failed, he was just frightened when the transition from electric to disk brakes took place and let go of the pedal, running through the stoplight.

And I’d bet you won’t find anything else on it, because that was the only complaint that the NHTSA received of this problem on a Ford vehicle!

boogeyman- The system in the Fusion and Milan are modified/tuned versions of the one that’s run in the Escape. The one in the Escape borrows a lot from the Toyota system, due to the similarities Ford had to Toyota’s in development, but because of that most of the hybrid system is Toyota developed.

Oh, and before anybody goes parading that I’m trying to say that no problem exists- yes, a problem exists. Toyota’s system has a little bit of lag in it that could be improved on, that’s all. It wouldn’t be a massive issue if it wasn’t inflated by the media- and Toyota’s low quality.

Crossing your T’s and dotting your I’s I see Ford…

Realist back up that bull sheet story with some links. The spark plug one too.

The Realist
Your reality is a myth!

As an IT professional I’ll tell this, I trust no software, there is always a bug.

This could just be paranoia of the users prompting investigation beyond the original acceleration problem. Seems like they’ve moved to other companies as well…

@The realist.

every time I come around, you sure give me a good laugh with your posts.

You reality is that you’re so PATHETIC.

It’s amusing that in some of your teeny brains, Ford has become a paragon of virtue and goodness, while Toyota has become the incarnation of all that is evil.

It’s amazing that someone who humped and apparently continues to hump Toyota’s leg can continue to be condescending to everyone else under the circumstances.
My roommates ditzy girlfriend spent all afternoon looking for a Highlander and when I came in and suggested an American or Korean alternative, her and her other girlfriend insisted I’m an idiot and that Japanese cars have superior fuel economy and reliability. She says “show me one American car that comes even close to a Highlander in fuel economy, reliability, and “cuteness”.
I showed her a Ford Escape, and its EPA numbers, and LLN’s latest articles about automaker quality.
Now she wants a Ford Escape.

In a nutshell, the car buying public is still a bunch of morons.

@a4 have her her look at Terrain and Equinox too.

She wants something a couple years old, I showed her the (older) Equinox, she said it was hideous, which the last gen definitely is, so I don’t blame her there. I’m just so sick of all the dip****s (for lack of a better term) out there who continue to have that mindset. I’m not a domestic fanboy by ANY means of the phrase. Would I buy one? Only if it was a full-sized pickup, a muscle car, a Wrangler, or had its roots in Europe like the Focus RS. I just think people/companies/anyone that deserves credit, such as Ford and GM, get it.

You asked a woman about a car…that’s your problem right there A4. I talked my sister into an Escape last year too, nice improvement for Ford.

I think a lot of this “Hybrid brake problem” is drivers failing to understand how a regenerative braking system works. Of course your Hybrid is going to stop differently than a traditional automobile… there is a lot of work going on with the electric motors and battery packs to capture energy from the vehicle’s momentum any time you touch the brake pedal.

The traditional braking system does not engage immediately when you press the pedal, the car uses regenerative braking first to recharge the batteries then uses the traditional brakes to stop the vehicle.

I thought most Hybrid owners were aware of this “feature” and had been advised on proper driving habits and what to expect from their Hybrid vehicle. I guess I was wrong.

Oh I didn’t ask her. I heard her blabbing about how great Highlanders were and said what I said to her. I was bombarded with rude comments from her and her girlfriend for a good 2 minute period about how crappy American cars are and how superior the Japanese ones are. They both know I’m a car fanatic yet still preached that they knew-it-all and that I was a basically moron that didn’t know anything. I’m sure a couple of you on here would agree with that though

Ah, I bet that stereotyping will continue for a while, but Chevy and Ford are on their way up. I would have never considered any domestic, except for trucks and SUVs, until recently myself.

In the near future software problems can be fixed more quickly and not even have to drive to a dealer. Just install wi-fi wireless internet into new cars and with special password keys the automaker can upload software updates into your car when you are in a wi fo hot zone. Ford does hav ea bit of a problem here but from what I see it is not as bad as Toyota yet and Ford is taking preemptive action to make sure their problem is fixed before it gets to Toyota’s level. I think I remember reading There have been some Prius accidents in Japan. Ford seems to be learning from it disasterous mistakes it made before the turn of the century. Safetywise, Ford has changed a whole lot since it purchased Volvo in March 1999. If Toyota has any hope of recovery, they better learn from this.

@ …The Realist

Show me ware, give me a link, When in October? Show me, prove me wrong…

I’m just saying what I read, if you have better prof. then show me I’ll give credit ware it’s due…

Oh look…the blind Ford cheerleaders want proof. Well, ask and you shall receive…OCTOBER 18TH, 2009 is when the FIXED cars started to roll out of the appliance factory:

LINK #1
-”The cars were built before Oct. 17, 2009. For models built after that date, Ford fixed the software at the factory to change the feel of the pedal, Deep said. ”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/04/business/main6174894.shtml

LINK #2
-”Ford said a software glitch on Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids built on or before October 17 could cause drivers to perceive a loss of braking as the car shifts unnecessarily from regenerative braking into the conventional mode.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100205/us_nm/us_ford_fusion

Good enough for ya?

———————————

And someone mentioned they wanted proof of Ford’s spark plug issues (have you been living under a rock?):

-http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___US345&hs=D5X&ei=q6hsS6LXFoi6Npq-oNYE&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CA4QBSgA&q=Ford+5.4+Spark+Plug+issues&spell=1

The early POS mod V8s would blow the Plugs right out of the head…and later POS mod V8s would cement the plugs into the head thus resulting in them breaking off.

Oh and BTW…the October 17th date was written in the article above.

So much for reading these days…

@The Realist – Everything you just linked out to was included in our own article. Guess you didn’t read it either?

I knew it was…but the people were crying for links…I provided them.

Here are the quotes (amongst other humorous personal attacks):

-”The Realist- Find me one link that describes the problem that you JUST described, and I’ll be happy.”

-”Show me ware, give me a link, When in October? Show me, prove me wrong…
I’m just saying what I read, if you have better prof. then show me I’ll give credit ware it’s due…”

@Realist,

Just give it up. We all know you are just trying to slam FORD and DETROIT. You have no factual basis for your vitriol. What ever reason you give would sound like an excuse.

Just give it a rest. You are not treading these waters well.

Slam Detroit??? Are you stoned?

And I provided many sources to back up my original post.

Again…the usual process is:

Read—>comprehend—>post. Not:
Post—>deny—>slam—>lie.

Believe it or not, the first way is easier…and the blind Ford cheerleaders should try it out sometime.