Now I feel better!
DrFill

Just who are they trying to kid?

I’m sure Ford’s quality has improved over the last half decade, however I highly doubt that it’s quality is just as superior as Honda and Toyota. I know Ford’s Mercury brand has very good quality and always rates high, Mercury isn’t exactly a huge high volume selling brand. But just like Buick for GM, didn’t it tie for first in overall quality with Lexus last year? Anyways good for Ford that their quality is improving, they need it. I’d rather see a third party’s study on this. I’ll be curious to see 1115’s take on this one.

The Fords I have owned have all been great. That being said, if there is a general quality perception gap Ford needs to exceed Honda and Toyota for a few years to overcome it, not just do as well as them.

Car # 1 is nearly equal in parts failure with Car # 2.

Car # 1 is an ugly, uninspiring, souless mashup of design, on an archaic chassis.

Car # 2 is a forward thinking, well balanced design with many innovative features, it has spirit.

can you guess which one is made by Ford, and which one by Honda?

Any automaker who green-lights a POS like that Focus is bound for disaster. For **** sakes, all you need to do is glance at it, to see/

now, the Euro Focus is Yummy

Assuming you mean Honda, what truly innovative features does an Accord, Civic, Fit, Element, or Ridgeline have? Only one I can think of is the Ridgeline is a uni-body truck and the damn thing barely sells. I’ll grant that the Accord, Civic, and Fit sell, but in what way are they “innovative?”

Quality is not just about how often a car breaks. It is how it feels when you interact with the smallest switch and how pleasurable it is to look at and touch the interior surfaces.
While Fords and Chryslers have the worlds crappiest and nastiest interiors they might never go wrong and still be considered inferior quality products.

Is this a joke? lol Ford and Quality just don’t seem to go together! I guess this is more Ford corporate bull **** that is some sort of pathetic attempt to gain more customers. This study which we all know was done by Ford is an insult to the general public. Not only does Ford build garbage, they completely lie to the public. In the current edition of Car&Driver, they tested 9 economy cars, the Focus being in that group. It was ranked dead last and the section for the Focus read “what were they thinking?” Nice try Ford, but people are not as stupid as you think.

Car&Driver is a paid advert-whore. Whether C&D likes the Focus or not, the little thing is selling pretty well and reports from the buyers are very positive.

Thats like jerking off, yourself.
DRFILL

The only thing you need to remember here is that the study was commissioned by Ford…although I don’t doubt their INITIAL quality has improved, as has every mfg. including Kia. Let’s wait for JDP and other less-interested third party surveys to see what they say. Also, the first 90-day studies really don’t reflect reliability, which is mistakenly blurred with quality. The JDP 3-year reliabilty study is really a better indicator.

Ford commissioned this study. Not sure if that means its biased.
g4me: Don’t ever quote that racist scumbag John david power and expect to be taken seriously

The 2007 second quarter U.S. Global Quality Research System study, conducted for Ford by RDA Group of Bloomfield Hills, Mich., asks customers of all major makes and models to comment on troubles and rate their overall satisfaction with their three-month-old vehicles.

Second-place winners for TGW performance and customer satisfaction include:

* Ford Freestyle: TGW performance, Crossover utility.
* Ford Expedition: TGW performance, Large traditional utility.
* Ford Expedition EL: Customer satisfaction performance, Large traditional utility.
* Ford E-Series: TGW performance, Full-size van passenger/cargo.
* Mercury Milan: TGW performance, CD car segment.
* Mercury Mountaineer: TGW performance, Medium traditional utility.
* Lincoln Navigator L: TGW performance and customer satisfaction performance, Large premium utility.
* Mazda MX-5 Miata: customer satisfaction, Sports car segment.
* Volvo S60: TGW performance, CD Premium car segment.
* Volvo S80: TGW performance, D Premium car segment.

Third-place winners include:

* Ford Fusion: TGW performance, CD car segment.
* Ford F-150: TGW performance, Fullsize light truck segment.
* Lincoln MKZ: TGW performance, CD Premium car segment.
* Lincoln Navigator: TGW performance and customer satisfaction performance, Large premium utility segment.
* Mazda MX-5 Miata: TGW performance, Sports car segment.

In the report, Ford Motor Company vehicles are at 1,427 TGWs, representing 159 fewer TGWs since last year. The company’s lineup achieved an overall customer satisfaction rating of 75 percent, up by 1 percentage point.

I’ll be curious to see 1115’s take on this one.
MY take on this is HAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA
Please no study in the world will put Ford on par with Honda or even Hyundai

Ford commisioned is correct, According to Ford, and Latest attempt all point to LIES
You people will fall for anything I have a bridge I can sell you in Brooklyn along with some swamp land in Florida if you buy this

This is funnier then Fords comparison commercials with a fully loaded AWD V6 Fusion vs a Ce 4 cyl Camry. They even went so far as to put smaller wheels on the Camry and they compared the handling lol
Ford my ass

Who gives a rip about quality if the cars look like crap? In these modern times, it semms most people expect a new car to have decent quality (aside from VW and MB), and so it really comes down to style. Does anyone buying the hot new Malibu care about long term quality? They just want a well-reviewed car that isn’t dorky.

^This is why more and more people are getting wise to Ford’s lies. Ford loves to make unfair and unequal comparisons with other vehicles. Unfortunately there are still a few idiots left who continue to buy fords but their numbers are dwindling.

I’m just trying to figure out why there are so many haters out here… I love Japanese women and all, but their car quality is within reach of U.S. automakers. Maybe you’d be content if we switched the U.S. dollar to the YEN, but your probably asking yourself what’s the YEN? When are DUMB Americans going to figure this out? I hope you like working the Wendy’s drive thru. Did you get that joke? probably not..

MikeFX: “Who gives a rip about quality if the cars look like crap?”

That’s a lot of ford’s problem.

Moto, what do you drive?

Bwilliams, 1115 works the Fatburger drivethru, night shift, as Director Of Burger Flippance (if I recall).

Yea… He forgot to give me napkins yesterday!

Agree about the C&D opinion mayer_ray. Used to subscribe pretty much all through the ’90s before they jumped the shark. I would rather peruse Womans Weekly while waiting in line at the checkout than read that drivel.

It seems like no matter how much proof there is, those people that have been so brainwashed into thinking the Japs are better will never accept that truth that the Americans are just as good. Fords quality matches the Japanese…accept it, its true. It doesnt mean you morons have to buy one.

Hey el2000, car #1 is made by Honda. Right. I mean, come on, look how ugly their cars are.

JJT: Ford’s other problems:
- Not getting concepts to production quick enough (Flex).
- What’s the story with Mercury?
- Why no Modeo or Euro Focus over here?
- Way Forward Plan announced so long ago, and with what results? You sold Jag and LR!
- They cannot redo the 500/Taurus fast enough.
- Too many SUV/crossovers (Explorer, Edge, Flex, Escape, Expedition, and that’s not including Merc and Linc).
- Too many special edition Mustangs, which are all going to look like old news once Challenger and Camaro hit the streets.

MikeFx, What does Toyota have out there thats so amazing since you seem to be so knowledgeable… The new Corolla, and the camry?

Are you sure its a ford-commissioned study? Because I read this same story on Yahoo Biz or Auto I forget which one. Even if it is, Ford’s gains in quality are undeniable

It doesn’t matter what Toyota or Honda have out BC they actually sell their vehicles and aren’t in financial trouble
Everyone on here wants to talk about how the cars look but a car that doesn’t run is a car that can’t be driven and seen
It’s all subjective anyway I think the new Camry looks great and the Accord (coupe especially) looks great also. I think the new Corolla isn’t a looker but its better than the Focus the Caliber and the Cobalt lol and it’s MUCH more reliable
They don’t have to worry about American comp they may have to worry about mazda and Hyundai but def not GM and the others
The Malibu is nice looking even impressive but GMs track record works against them and that car has yet to stand the test of time so no matter what the bottom line is the more reliable and higher the resale is of a car is the car that most consumers will go towards
Unless you are an idiot or like being in the waiting room at the dealer there is no reason to trust GM Ford Chrysler enough to buy one of their vehicles over the Japanese heavy hitters Toyota & Honda
Fords study is bogus and they need to be more subtle with their bull**** like GM is Pay off a magazine or two and create bias propaganda website. That’s the old American way of doing things

I think this was the great USA greatest country on the face of the earth. I guess it’s now second to Japan. Hey it’s you americans calling the shots.

It doesn’t matter what Ford or GM have out BC they actually sell their vehicles and aren’t in financial trouble
Everyone on here wants to talk about how the cars look but a car that doesn’t run is a car that can’t be driven and seen
It’s all subjective anyway I think the new Malibu looks great and the G8 (coupe especially) looks great also. I think the new Focus isn’t a looker but its better than the Yaris the Fit and the Versa lol and it’s MUCH more reliable
They don’t have to worry about Japanese comp they may have to worry about mazda and Hyundai but def not Toyota and the others
The Camry is nice looking even impressive but Toyota’s track record works against them and that car has yet to stand the test of time so no matter what the bottom line is the more reliable and higher the resale is of a car is the car that most consumers will go towards
Unless you are an idiot or like being in the waiting room at the dealer there is no reason to trust Toyota, Honda, or Nissan enough to buy one of their vehicles over the American heavy hitters GM & Ford
Fords study is Great and they need to be more like Toyota and Pay off a magazine or two and create bias propaganda website. That’s the old Japanese way of doing things

so i admit completely that im a ford supporter. great grandfater, grandfather, father, father-in-law, brother are all ford vets. with that, im admitting that I look through rose colored lenses.

and with that… my biggest problem is that Ford is spending millions of dollars to say “we’re finally as good as the other guys have been for a long time.” is that really something to brag about? it seems that it’s actually something that Toyota & Honda would say… welcome to the club, we’ve been members for a long time — much like a Sr welcoming a walk on to the football team.

Yes, it’s a good thing… but bragging about finally being equal sort of proves the point that striving for parity is about as good as they can hope to get.

Not a claim many want… Vote for me, I’m just as good as the guys already in Congress — not better, but just as good. ouch!

mayer: You really think someone at Fatburger would let 1115 near food he wanted to serve to humans? Nah, he’s on floors.
That’s why he likes to use “janitor” as an insult: self-hatred.

MikeFX: your list of problems is dead-on, but particularly “Too many special edition Mustangs”

Commodore: sometimes, you know something is true, so you pay someone else to look at it, because that’s the best way, you figure, to get the news out there.

1115: “Everyone on here wants to talk about how the cars look but a car that doesn’t run is a car that can’t be driven and seen.” That makes sense, but what’s your point.
bwilliams: “I think the new Focus isn’t a looker but its better than the Yaris the Fit and the Versa.” Actually the focus is a compact, and it doesn’t compete with those. But it is better than the Civic, Sentra and Corolla.

I wish every Japanese apologist (living in America) commenting on LLN would take the time to quickly tell us what they do for a living. I just want to know so I can buy the foreign equivalent of it. If you have a son doing something for a living here, please tell me what they do too, so I can be sure to not support them either. RIP national pride… and local jobs.

I work as a software engineer and love it when during happy hour all my co-workers sit around and bitch about how their jobs are being shipped overseas or they’re being replaced by workers from India. Then they finish drinking their Heineken, jump in their Lexus/BMW, and drive away unaware of their hypocrisy. You stay classy.

MikeFX, JJT- The Flex not on the market fast enough? Hell, it was first shown only a little bit more than a year ago! That’s not fast enough for you? Find any imports or even domestics that are similarly as fast.

They only started revamping the new Taurus, or announced plans of it about a month ago. Once again, what do you want?

I love different editions at low prices, what’s not to love about it? Please, tell. That means mine won’t look the same as the guys next to me, and I won’t have to pay an extra few thousand in mods for some simple differences.

Don’t forget the Taurus X in that list. I agree with you on that one, they’re trying to create a “sub-line” of SUV’s (crossovers and wagons) to their “real” SUV line. There pretty much covering the whole market. I also agree with the “Way Forward” plan and Mercury not getting off the tracks, or on it.

I have to explain again I overestimate your janitor mond What that statement meant was that GM s have a track record of unreliability Some jack off was commenting on the looks of the Japanese cars and my point is that even if you think the American cars are more exciting or better looking based on their track records they will break down and be in the shop more therefore no one will see you in your car unless he is a repairman
Bwilliams My posts are great and I know that is why you copied but try and be original. Are you a janitor too ?

Like this is new, Yota’s quality is so-so. The propaganda Yota puits out is nothing but hype for the brain dead.

I think FoMoCo’s quality is much better than any of the Asian junk, especially their trucks. Ford just needs to let their European and Austrailan divisions do the design work.

I grew up with Fords. I was their customer to lose and they lost me.

How? 1986 Ford Escort 2 door. I loved that car until 55,000 miles. Less than 10,000 miles later too many things went wrong with it and I spent almost 50% of what the car cost me and it was worth about $300.

The following is not an exhaustive list but things that started going bad just after 55,000 miles.

“C-clip” broken on transaxle at freeway speed. It ripped up the front end. No I didn’t go through a pot hole and I pulled off as quickly as I reasonably could.

Blown head gasket and “Thrown valves”. I didn’t know before this that you could “throw a valve.” Their words, in writing.

Note: I asked what specifically I had done to do this to the car. I was not accusing them but myself. What could I do differently in the future? Their answer? I was obviously not hard on the car. There was nothing I could have done differently.

1990 Ford Ranger – I sold the truck at 63,000 miles when the head gasket blew and the Ford dealer told me the throttle body fuel injection system needed to be rebuilt.

My wife and I bought a 1990 Toyota Camry and then a 1994 Toyota 4×4 pickup (the year before the “Tacoma”).

The only replacement on the Camry was the alternator which was replaced under warrantee. We sold it with 186,000 miles on it after it was stolen (amazingly for the first time and only time) and bought a Prius which has much better door locks.

Note: So far we are getting at worst 45 mpg during the winter. During the summer we are getting almost 53mpg when the engine doesn’t take as long to warm up and the same with the inside of the car.

Note: So far I don’t know if any Ford car that gets that kind of gas mileage let alone one that I would trust.

For all you of you that are completely ignorant about Prius’, start flaming me. This car, unless in an accident, will be around long after every Ford of this year with comparable yearly mileage is long gone.

The Toyota pickup had around 60,000 miles on it when we sold it to our neighbor. We wanted more room and mistakenly fell in love with a Jeep Grand Cherokee while on vacation and bought one of those. We won’t be making that mistake again. WAY too much maintenance compared to all wheel drive Toyotas. It mostly sits now. At least it will have low milage when we sell it.

Do you think the next vehicle we buy with be a Ford or Chrysler?

I would think that things have changed with Ford since then. Based on friends of mine that have bought Fords in the last five years it sure doesn’t seem like it. They don’t appear to be holding up any better than ours did.

That isn’t based on ignorant information or possibly biased studies but on first and second hand experience of mine and close friends. Friends I hang out with often and don’t abuse their vehicles. Our friends with Toyotas don’t have any problems either.

jayjc.. the “Flex” may have been shown only a year ago, but the “Fairlane”, which was essentially the same vehicle right down to the side strakes, was first shown in 2005.

pft! Yeah right Ford…

lol soo many people out there dont believe this. Well thats just to bad. I have had great experience with Ford, one broke down out of the 10 to 11 Ford cars I have owned or been driven in by my parents.
That aside.
I think Ford is on the right track for their cars, but still behind. I don’t think anyone can deny the fact that our big 3 got better since the arrival of the Japs, and Germs.

400,000+ miles on two ‘97 Ford E150’s and not one problem with engine or tranny. I believe the Focus chassis is not as old as the Corolla. Anyone know?

This is nothing new. I recently came across study commissioned by Lincoln and found out that Lincoln automobiles hold their value much better then ANY competing luxury brand. The same study suggested that this fact explains why Lincoln is the choice of NY limo and escort services.
link below is the proof of Ford’s reliability claims:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/used-cars/cr-recommended/the-best-worst-used-cars-406/overview/index.htm?EXTKEY=SG72C00&KNC-CROCARSG&HBX_OU=50&HBX_PK=auto_report_cards?EXTKEY=SG72C00&KNC-CROCARSG&HBX_OU=50&HBX_PK=reliable_cars

Unbelievably pathetic

Ford quality in the same league as Toyota/Honda? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Is this intial quality or reliability? No matter what, as evidenced by the blog comments, even if it is true, Ford has several years to perceptions to overcome where they must maintain and improve upon this level of ‘quality’. It is is initial quality, who cares. Call me back when it’s 3-year reliability.

Correction: It is initial quality…So, yeah call me back in 3 years.

For those of you rambling on about buying a “foreign” car over an American car – which is more American? A Ford built in Mexico, a GM built in Canada, or a Honda built in Ohio? Not only that, but in many cases, the parts are produced by local suppliers. These companies (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and others) also employ thousands of American workers.

So before you lash out at those of us driving “some Asian piece of crap”, keep in mind that there is no longer such a thing as a purely American car.

The Fusion isn’t bad looking.
The Edge is actually great looking.
The Mustang is of course good looking.

But that Focus. My G_D, what were they thinking? Of the exterior isnt bad enough the interior is enough to make me projectile vomit.
Why couldnt they keep the old chassis but just do the exterior and interior exactly like the Euro Focus? I just don’t get it.

steve333: I can’t for the life of me figure out why I’m seeing so many new Foci. I think it’s those front fender thingies. They just look so ridiculous it’s like watching a train wreck. I’m seriously scared to actually look at the interior of one of these.

Actually, what really has me clusterf*****ed is that 13 model years after Dodge brings out a 2.0l with 150 horse Ford’s still puts out 10 less.

ford kicks ass and has been for an long time it just some thiings holding it back . no that the things are now done or takin care now they can be seen for what they realy are and good car company.

Hilarious. WHO paid for this “study” again?

Overall reliability has improved on Euro Fords at least, and quality too – read what 4car says about the Mondeo’s “Reliability & Quality”:

“The Mondeo has long proved to be tough and durable; for a car built in huge numbers down to a price, it’s very well put together and finished to a good standard. Most of its components have already been tried and tested in other models such as the Galaxy and S-Max, as well as the closely related new Volvos, and it should prove dependable. Some of its electronic control systems are new, though. Ford has also paid attention to details such as improving the paint quality, and has fitted nicer plastics and materials in the cabins, where there’s been a general upgrade. ”

But Evo’s spot on about the Mondeo:

“And will anyone care? Probably not, because yer average disinterested punter will still lust after something German with a posher badge even though this car is almost certainly nicer to drive than pretty much any Audi bar the RS4. Instead the Mondeo will carry on doing what it’s always done, pleasing people who aren’t badge snobs and those who don’t have a choice. In a world of Little Chefs, it’s a secret slice of haute cuisine.”

“I wish every Japanese apologist (living in America) commenting on LLN would take the time to quickly tell us what they do for a living. I just want to know so I can buy the foreign equivalent of it. If you have a son doing something for a living here, please tell me what they do too, so I can be sure to not support them either. RIP national pride… and local jobs.

I work as a software engineer and love it when during happy hour all my co-workers sit around and bitch about how their jobs are being shipped overseas or they’re being replaced by workers from India. Then they finish drinking their Heineken, jump in their Lexus/BMW, and drive away unaware of their hypocrisy. You stay classy.
Comment by dmbpearl”

EXCELLENT POST!

My Janesville UAW built Suburban is more American than any riceburner will ever be. When Toyota moves their corporate headquarters here and is traded on our stock exchange and hires union employees I’ll accept them as American. Until then, GTFO.

cwa107: In your example, you mentioned automobiles built in America by foreign owned companies (e.g., Camry, Accord), and automobiles built by America’s neighbors but owned by American companies (e.g., Fusion), but for some reason you failed to mention American cars built in America by Americans (e.g., STS, F-150). Convenient oversight. Regardless, a Ford or GM built in Mexico or Canada is better then a Toyota Prius. And if you’re wondering, Toyota and Honda do not build cars here to be nice, they do it because they have to.

I think it’s important for GM and Ford to build automobiles in Canada (and to a lesser extent Mexico) since they are our greatest trade partner and they also buy many U.S. products. Besides, anything that helps our neighbors directly is fine by me and is good for America; especially if it employs a Mexican worker and entices him to stay with his family… in Mexico. Now, how many cars do the Japanese buy that are built in America, one of their greatest trade partners and a country who has protected their little island for 60 years?

Not just Japan, how about South Korea? Germany? If not for us, the only products those counties would sell would be Russian products, so a little f*cking respect would be nice from those inconsiderate pr*cks and the lackeys who drive their “amazing” products. Do any of you ever wonder why the three countries that supposedly build the finest automobiles all have been protected by America for many many decades??? All I expect as an answer is… “America sucks!” Spoken like a true stoner idiot who slept through every history class they were ever forced to take.

cwa 107:

For those of you rambling on about buying a “foreign” car over an American car – which is more American? A Ford built in Mexico, a GM built in Canada, or a Honda built in Ohio? Not only that, but in many cases, the parts are produced by local suppliers. These companies (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and others) also employ thousands of American workers.

So before you lash out at those of us driving “some Asian piece of crap”, keep in mind that there is no longer such a thing as a purely American car.

You bring up somegood points, but nobody buys an “american” car just because it’s american. people are more likely to buy japanese just because it’s NOT “american,” but the fact of the matter is, you can get a good car from America or Japan.

Frylock: Domestic beer sucks for the most part,but I do enjoy a good rolling rock.

You should always buy the best product that you can afford, whtever it’s country of origin.That is the only incentive for the manufacturers who aren’t best to get better. Buying an AMerican product just because it is American does more harm to American industry in the long run.

CaCaLover, I don’t buy the best product I can afford; I buy the best product that fits my needs, including and balancing the need to save money and invest. Buying the “best you can afford” pretty much means giving away everything you have with each purchasing decision.

I can afford a new Rolls, but my next sedan will very likely be a Mazda 6.

Of the big 3 domestics, I would say Ford is the most Japanese-like in the way their cars are designed and assembled. I’ve had pretty good luck with Fords in the past, but they are a royal PITA to work on, similar to most Japanese cars. They are assembled well, but they were never designed to be repaired easily. Fixing something on them is always a struggle.

I’m pretty sure the Focus is now the ONLY passenger car available in the USA with NO rear head supports/restraints. Not even a bump on the top of the back seat. But they can spend all their money making the car look bizzare.

What does that tell you about Ford?

It is really dumb for the people who sponsored the study announcing they found themselves to be equals to the competition. Whether it is true or not, it at least should be taken with a grain of salt. Independent research (and not ‘Consumer Reports’ independent) would be needed to support such claims.

BTW, I do remember JD Power saying something similar last quarter…

jjm – “Rolling Rock” YUCK!!! This is a whole other topic, but there are some really excellent American beers…

dmbpearl:

“Not just Japan, how about South Korea? Germany? If not for us, the only products those counties would sell would be Russian products, so a little f*cking respect would be nice from those inconsiderate pr*cks and the lackeys who drive their “amazing” products. Do any of you ever wonder why the three countries that supposedly build the finest automobiles all have been protected by America for many many decades??? All I expect as an answer is… “America sucks!” Spoken like a true stoner idiot who slept through every history class they were ever forced to take.”

You make some excellent points, but completely belittle them by reducing yourself to name calling to get your point across.

You’re right, sorry for the ranting and name calling. There is no need for that to get any point across. I guess I get the feeling you have to name call when commenting on LLN since it appears to be the only way to create a little back-and-forth dialog on a subject. Again, sorry.

But, with regard to the subject at hand, the only real complaint I have is with an American that refuses to buy American simply because it’s American. If I were a German or Japanese I would feel the same about my home countries products. It’s just something I can’t figure out. Maybe because it doesn’t happen as often in places like Japan.

So fine, buy a Toyota, it’s a free country. But to not even test drive or consider a domestic seems a little strange to me. In 1986 I could maybe understand, but anyone that feels the quality gap is still equal to that of 1986 is either extremely delusional or just maybe trying to get laid at the Friday night Fast and the Furious meet down at the Kmart parking lot. Come on, technically that’s not name calling, is it?!?!?!

dmbpearl:

Believe it or not, we agree. I also find it obtuse to make an uninformed decision based purely on nameplate. I drive an Accord, but didn’t buy it until I found that I much preferred it over the contemporary competition – and yes, that included the Chevy Malibu, Dodge Avenger and Ford Fusion (actually, that’s a bit of a stretch – I previously owned a Mazda6, which was horrible, and since it’s mechanically identical to the Fusion, I honestly didn’t even give it a chance). The Camry, being a Japanese Buick for all intents and purposes was uninteresting to me – same thing for the German products, although I have to admit some bias against them based purely on my experience working on them.

Anyway, my main point is that so many of the models out there are such a crossbreed of domestic and foreign products, that it shouldn’t really matter what the nameplate is – and that goes both ways.

Hey, I’m a car NUT. I love going to delears on the weekend to test drive everything. That way, when friends ask me for advice, I have an opinion based on a real product, not numbers and statistics.

Cars like the Fusion/Milan are well built, but Ford doesn’t offer powertrains and options that compete well with the foreign brands. I know that I can buy a well built Fusion for less than an Accord or Camry, but what are we to do when we want the options on those cars? Ford/Mercury (and to some extent Lincoln) just don’t offer the right product.

GM is getting better but still falls a little short. Chrysler… what’s going on with them these days? No focus. ess

Lastly, my experience at foriegn brand dealers has always been better than at a domestic. They’re better informed about their products and the competition, the showrooms are better maintained and the service staff just seems more organized. The only domestic brand that seems to offer a decent overall buying experience is Cadillac.

It’s not just the parts… it’s the sum of the whole.

i knew it all along.