Clue me in all you smarties. I don’t understand the yankee consumer or canucks for that matter. Yankee domestic vehicles in particular Fords are very good vehicles and yet the consumer still prefers imports. Even imports that don’t have very good quality ratings (ie.VW). Yankee consumers wave the yankee flag all over the world and yet when it comes to relieving their wallets they buy foreign. True some yankee labour goes into making foreign vehicles. This is token compared to Ford, GM or Chrysler. Look at Walmart. Where is the stuff on thier shelves made? In supporting their own economy Yankees are not near as loyal to their country (put your flags away) as Europeans or Asians to theirs. I think they must be smarter than yankees in knowing what makes their economy tick and puts money in their wallets. Hell from what i understand you can’t even by a NA car in Japan. Know wonder Nippon rules.

Corvettes are a hot item in Japan. Limited availability, though, but still a sought after item.

The term “good” is a subjective term. Some people, like TripleOneFive, prefer the reliability and resale value of a Toyota Corolla over the power of a Cobalt SS. And then others, such as Need4SSpeed, prefer aggressive styling and performance over reliability. It all depends on what you want.

As far as Fords go, well, the F series was the #1 selling vehicle in the world for a while. Not just the U.S., but the entire world. Focuses sell like crazy in Europe, and they are doing well here, too. The Cobalt is beating the Focus right now, but both are doing well.

As far as buying imports over American cars, I think you’ll find that many imports are assembled here, and their parts are sent from all over the globe. Even American cars have quite a bit of foreign content in them. So, either way, whatever is purchased, it supports foreign economies. And on top of that, we import our oil so that we don’t “rape our land”. The trick for us is to get our products and services exported to other countries so we can get more money in.

Therein lies the problem. We don’t have as many resources to export. We import just about everything. And since we were a pretty wealthy country to start with, many other countries wanted a part of that wealth. They offered resources, goods and services, and we paid for them. Now, we’re stuck with little money left, and we’ve promised to keep buying goods and services from other places. We need to get stuff out to other countries in order to bring some money back. And what do we have to offer? Cars, which are doing “okay”, and pornography, which is doing really well. The trouble is that we can’t “rape our land”. So we rape yours, and pay you for it.

I still call the Taurus X the Freesyle..

When you change the name of the car every 20 seconds, brand recognition goes to hell. This is why everyone knows what a 335 or A4 is, but no one knows what the **** a Freestyle or Taurus X is.

Good point, DeansterTJ. And I don’t think letting Taurus slip from world-beater to rental-fleet darling was a good idea, either. And even worse was killing the nameplate and then bringing it back. whoo-ee!

I’ve rented the Taurus a few times while on business. Nice enough car. Bland but pleasant – I actually liked it more than the Avalon I rented a few weeks ago, though the Avalon did seem more modern. The Taurus rode nicely and was quite comfortable, plus it looks good enough. That said, it’s about as boring as a car can be… but with Camry sales where they are, that seems to be what most people want.

Appreciate you thougts beatusmongous although I somewhat disagree with a couple of points. Is the Focus sold in Europe not made over there in a somewhat different version? Always see complaints about yankees not getting European models from ford such as Mondeo.
I remember a while ago seeing figures but don’t remember where the US car industry employs something like 10 people for every one foreign brand.
You are correct in that it is a 2way street in supporting foreign countries. I have always believed though not at the expense of ones own. The US has lost a lot of industry to foreign countries due to lost competiveness in labour such as televisons, stereos, motorbikes …..
When a country starts to lose its manufacturing base it starts to go downhill. Being a service based economy doesn’t cut it in the end. In particular when you lack resources. The canucks are lucky in resources and a small population. Were it not for that they would be in trouble like the yanks. They have slowly lost their competitiveness in manufacturing as has the US. In my opinion yankee intitative, technical edge and resourcefullness is what has been keeping the US economy afloat (along with overspending). Lose that edge and you’re done as a major player.

VW, Honda and Toyota have this sneaky tactic called MARKETING to inform potential customers about their cars. Most people know a Civic, Accord or Passat when they see one. Nobody knows the Taurus-X. However, if you want to go into a life of crime it’s a great vehicle. None of the witness would possibly be able to identify it! If Ford put 10% of the budget they spend advertising F-Series trucks into moving the Taurus/Sable/Taurus-X they may actually sell some. How many F-Series ads can you really stand to watch during a football game?

Nippon, you are right that the European Focus is different than the North American version. I do believe both are built here, though. And that fact is one thing that bothers me about American car makers…

For years, we’ve been fed the line “Buy American cars and support America.” We’ve also been told “Don’t buy foreign cars, because that sends our money out of the country.” As true as this may be, it caused many Americans to put up with their American made cars and continue to buy American, despite better-built foreign offerings. Basically, the workers got lazy, because people bought the product just because it was American, not because it was worth their money. The European Focus is a perfect example of the attitude that American car manufacturers had. Ford built an “okay” car for us, and we bought it up without complaint. But the Europeans wouldn’t buy it unless it was a superior product (which it is). However, instead of giving us that same product of high caliber, we were given a lower grade product, told to “support America”, and we just accepted it because we didn’t know better.

However, three good things have begun to happen in recent years.

The first is that American car manufacturers started to outsource their product to different countries. American cars are no longer 100% American. Foreign car manufacturers opened factories in the U.S., as well, which means foreign cars are no longer 100% foreign, and many are built by Americans. That shift has muddled the “buy American and support American” theory in that, whether we like it or not, our money is being sent to other countries. This also opened up people’s eyes to the fact that they could buy foreign and practically support the American economy almost as much as if they bought American.

The second thing that has happened is that the latest generation of car buyers has different ideals than the earlier ones. They don’t want to buy stuff just because it comes from a certain place. They are more critical buyers (which is good because cars are so expensive these days), and they pay more attention to things like fit and finish, storage space, resale value, reliability, gas mileage, etc. This attitude has caused many buyers to purchase based on desired criteria, rather than origin. Of course, this means that the passing off of not-so-great cars to the new generation of American car buyers is no longer possible, because they want certain qualities and they understand the purchase much more so than they did before (this generation is not the Soccer Mom generation).

Which leads to the third good thing, which is that since the American car companies are seeing that people don’t want their cars anymore, they have to make changes. This is the principle of “survival of the fittest” taking place. Toyota does a ton of customer research, and they have found that the average car buyer doesn’t even know the difference between 120HP and 240HP. To them, “as long as I can get from A to B comfortably and cheaply” is the most important feature. Many people these days don’t even like driving, and would rather do other things like talk on the phone, read the newspaper, use the computer, watch TV, etc. Many people don’t drive for the enjoyment of driving anymore, which led to the building of popular appliance cars like the Corolla, among others (we on this site are not of that crowd). However, Toyota is not the only one doing their research. All of the Big Three have been doing a lot of research and development, in cooperation with many other makers around the world, and have started to change the face of cars in the near future. GM has the Volt coming. Ford has been working on GPS specific lane information and “smart” intersections. Chrysler has been working on EVs (even though we don’t hear about them). Also, the build quality of our cars has improved, meaning our cars are starting to be stronger not only here, but in other countries as well. Ford found that people would really like the European Focus in the U.S., so they are bringing it. This has become a good market where the makers are building products the buyers want now.

Which brings me to my final statement: 2010 is going to be a really good year…

I really don’t have much to say- for once- other than I’m enjoying reading the posts for a change. The new format seems to have attracted some new contributors- or maybe old contributors with a new schtick (NipponRules?)- but that doesn’t matter. The first couple of days following the changeover were like a wasteland, now everybody’s back in form.

NipponRules: nice to see you ease up, if just a little, on the one note battle cry. Do you think you could convince the GM guy with attention deficit disorder to post something intelligent once in a while as well?

Hey beatusmongous. Agree that people should expect quality and a vehicle that does the trick for them. However considering buying a new vehicle for most is next to a house the biggest single purchase they ever make. I for one have owned a Taurus and it is now getting somewhat dated. I would have no problem with purchasing another Taurus to replace it. For my purpose they are a wonderful designed vehicle. With that I don’t understand why the yankee consumer has not embraced this vehicle even as when it was the 500. I as a consumer and for the size of investment should and have done some done some research. For this model of vehicle I don’t believe anything fits the bill as well other than maybe another NA product in the Malibu or Impala. As well they support NA industry.
To me the consumer in expecting quality has to put in a little “quality” research themselves. Ie. don’t buy a vehicle just because it was a good brand ten years ago and even maybe still is. Others such as Ford and even GM have caught up and if the average Joe was doing quality research they would know that.
True Detroit has put out some **** products over the years as did the foreign products (Hyundai being a good example). Look at how the yankee consumer is now snapping up Hyundai. What gives? They are now putting out a respectable vehicle however up until recently they had a bad reputation same as Detroit. With that in mind why does the yankee consumer still seem to be avoiding Detroit. Why punish Detroit and not Hyundai?
Why would the yankee consumer after doing quality research even consider a VW? If you were to look at quality ratings VW is not half the vehicle a GM or Ford is yet these are being snapped up over yankee vehicles.
In conclusion given the choice if the product and quality is similar why not buy Detroit? The NA content may not be as much but you are still doing more to support your economy than purchasiing foreign brands.
Another question beatusmongous. I don’t understand why it is said that to build a car such as Mondeo or some Opels costs too much in NA to sell at a decent price. They sell them in relatively large quantity in Europe. What are your thoughts on this?

Nippon, that’s almost exactly what I’m talking about. The Big Three have a reputation to destroy, which is that they build large, thirsty, clumsy vehicles that break down often and explode either in the garage or while driving on the freeway. That, however, is not the truth. With some research, people can find very good quality vehicles that are made by the Big Three. Why people choose others could be many reasons, and I can’t speak for them. In my case, I chose a Nissan Quest because it was the only minivan available that had all the qualities I needed: a lot of cargo space, big seats for four adults and three small children, power for climbing hills while fully loaded, high safety ratings and a decent price ($24k). No other make or model had the qualities I needed. Some American versions were cheaper, but they were considerably smaller. The Dodge and Chrysler minivans that were large were also much higher in price at the time, and they didn’t have the versatility that they do now. If I were to trade my Quest for something else at this moment, my choices would now be between a Ford Flex, a Toyota Rav-4, and possibly a Dodge minivan. The Flex is my favorite at the moment. We bought the Quest for road trips with our family and my brother-in-law’s family to visit my mother-in-law and her husband. He has since passed away, and my mother-in-law has moved in with us. My brother-in-law has moved to México. We no longer need the cargo space and the large seats the Quest offers, and we can go with something smaller.

If the quality is similar, clearly the choice should be that we choose the one that supports our own economy. However, what’s better for one is not necessarily better for another. You like the Taurus, and it has served you well. I loved my PT Cruiser, and I miss it like crazy, but many others here will tell you how terrible the PT Cruiser is. I’ve found it to be an excellent vehicle, albeit a bit underpowered. My wife thought it was the ugliest car in the world, and I loved its looks. There are so many criteria in choosing a car that it’s difficult to say why people choose one thing over another. I do my homework when it comes to buying cars, and I test everything. I also refuse to allow reputations influence my purchasing decisions, but not everyone does. Yet I think nowadays people are starting to actually do more research before buying cars, as it’s much more of an investment than it was 30 years ago.

As for your second question, this has to do with government regulated safety systems, emissions controls, and the drivers side being on the opposite side. The tooling has to be different for one car to be built for both markets. The Smart ForTwo is an excellent example of this, because in order to bring the ForTwo over here, Smart had to make the car a bit longer and heavier, and they had to make the engine more powerful to compensate. They also had to adjust the engine so that the emissions would be more controlled, resulting in a further drop in fuel economy. The U.S. version only gets 41mpg on the highway, but the older European version was able to achieve upwards of 60mpg on the highway. One person from France even told me that with a $1.00 octane booster, she was able to achieve up to 100mpg on the highway with her European ForTwo. However, since so much has changed in the U.S. Smart, she knows that would not be possible. What’s worse, the diesel version is not allowed here, either, which was a better engine for the Smart.

Hopefully that helps clear some questions up.

beatusmongous you nailed it. If people were to do their home work they would find a lot of equality coming out of yankee vehicles. That is where a lot of the problem lays (but no where near all). People are not doing their research and not putting thought into what their spending habits are doing. IMO you have to look out for #1 first. #1 not being me but my own economy which is what gives me my living. Turn the key off and the economy come to a halt. Again this is not the whole problem with the yankee and other G8 country economies but is sure a part of it. The consumer has to wise up!
Anyways done with this banter. Thanks for the reply beatusmongous. You seem to have some logic in your thoughts.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said, “It’s all about me!” That may be the #1 problem…

By far the most interesting discussion on LLN I’ve seen in months. I’m suspicious that NipponRules is “xunya.”

It will be even more difficult for people to understand exactly what a Freestyle or Taurus X is when they rebadge it as Explorer for 2010.